Fast DSLR?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Hogleg44/40, Dec 24, 2003.

  1. Hogleg44/40

    Hogleg44/40 Guest

    Hello, All!

    Which DSLR in the $1000-$2000 price range has the fastest image capture
    ability. I have a Sony 707 which is much faster than my previous
    digicameras, but I still miss a lot of shots of playing grandchildren
    because of the lag.
    Am thinking presently of the EOS-10D Cannon.
    Any input will be apreciated.

    With best regards,
    Paul
     
    Hogleg44/40, Dec 24, 2003
    #1
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  2. "Hogleg44/40" <> wrote in message
    news:8lpGb.2111$...
    > Hello, All!
    >
    > Which DSLR in the $1000-$2000 price range has the fastest image capture
    > ability. I have a Sony 707 which is much faster than my previous
    > digicameras, but I still miss a lot of shots of playing grandchildren
    > because of the lag.
    > Am thinking presently of the EOS-10D Cannon.
    > Any input will be apreciated.
    >


    Fuji S2 Pro, Nikon D100, Canon 10. All the same as far as image capture
    goes. All good cameras. Blindingly fast with no perceptable shutter lag
    compared to your Sony 707.

    HMc
     
    Howard McCollister, Dec 25, 2003
    #2
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  3. Hogleg44/40

    Tony Spadaro Guest

    The 10D is fast and other cameras in the same class like the D100 Nikon
    would be too. The 10D is based on the Elan and is a great camera at a good
    price. The 300D is a slower interface although it would still be much faster
    than your current camera.

    --
    http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
    home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
    The Improved Links Pages are at
    http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
    A sample chapter from my novel "Haight-Ashbury" is at
    http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
    "Hogleg44/40" <> wrote in message
    news:8lpGb.2111$...
    > Hello, All!
    >
    > Which DSLR in the $1000-$2000 price range has the fastest image capture
    > ability. I have a Sony 707 which is much faster than my previous
    > digicameras, but I still miss a lot of shots of playing grandchildren
    > because of the lag.
    > Am thinking presently of the EOS-10D Cannon.
    > Any input will be apreciated.
    >
    > With best regards,
    > Paul
    >
    >
     
    Tony Spadaro, Dec 25, 2003
    #3
  4. Hogleg44/40

    PlaneGuy Guest

    I don't know the specs for the Fuji of Nikon bodies, but expect them to be
    very similar to the 10D in terms of speed of capture - ie shutter lag, in
    which all of them have almost no lag, and frames per second - probably
    around the 3fps.

    The Canon 300D (DRebel) has a slightly slower frames per second rate than
    the 10D, in that it is about 2.5fps.

    Now, the other thing to consider is buffer size - how many images you can
    take at the top speed, until the buffer is full. Now I don't know the
    numbers off the top of my head, so you should check out dpreview.com for the
    specs
     
    PlaneGuy, Dec 25, 2003
    #4
  5. Hogleg44/40

    Hogleg44/40 Guest

    Thanx for the fast replies Guys,
    What you are saying is about what I expected, experienced response from
    users means a whole lot.
    The buffer size is not a big issue to me (at this point). I seldom take the
    pics in a very rapid sequence, and the only way the 707 holds me up is
    waiting for the built in flash to charge....
    Now to figure out what lenses???

    Y'all have a Very Merry Christmas and a Terrific New Year.
    Paul
     
    Hogleg44/40, Dec 25, 2003
    #5
  6. Hogleg44/40 wrote:

    > Thanx for the fast replies Guys,
    > What you are saying is about what I expected, experienced response from
    > users means a whole lot.
    > The buffer size is not a big issue to me (at this point). I seldom take the
    > pics in a very rapid sequence, and the only way the 707 holds me up is
    > waiting for the built in flash to charge....
    > Now to figure out what lenses???


    I recommend the canon 28-135 IS (image stabilization) lens.
    For the Canon 10D, D60, d-rebel, the pixel spacing is 7.4
    microns. You need a sharp lens to get sharp pictures.
    Many of the consumer lenses are not sharp enough in my
    opinion. The 28-135 is quite sharp. The 10D has a 9-frame
    buffer, which you will find you may need during critical
    action (like baby's first steps). The IS gives you sharper
    pictures while hand holding. Buy a fast memory card to support
    the 9-frame buffer (3 frames per second). Note the DSLRs have
    not movie mode (at least canons don't).

    Roger
    Photos at: http://www.clarkvision.com
     
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Dec 25, 2003
    #6
  7. "Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    > Hogleg44/40 wrote:
    >
    > > Thanx for the fast replies Guys,
    > > What you are saying is about what I expected, experienced response from
    > > users means a whole lot.
    > > The buffer size is not a big issue to me (at this point). I seldom take

    the
    > > pics in a very rapid sequence, and the only way the 707 holds me up is
    > > waiting for the built in flash to charge....
    > > Now to figure out what lenses???

    >
    > I recommend the canon 28-135 IS (image stabilization) lens.
    > For the Canon 10D, D60, d-rebel, the pixel spacing is 7.4
    > microns. You need a sharp lens to get sharp pictures.
    > Many of the consumer lenses are not sharp enough in my
    > opinion. The 28-135 is quite sharp. The 10D has a 9-frame
    > buffer, which you will find you may need during critical
    > action (like baby's first steps). The IS gives you sharper
    > pictures while hand holding. Buy a fast memory card to support
    > the 9-frame buffer (3 frames per second). Note the DSLRs have
    > not movie mode (at least canons don't).
    >



    OTOH, the Fuji S2 Pro demonstrates sharper images, better resolution and
    noise performance that is markedly superior to the 10D (and D100). One added
    benefit to Nikon lenses is that there are three different manufacturers that
    make camera bodies using those lenses. Your lenses will be your major
    expense. With Nikon lenses you are not locked into a single camera body
    manfuacturer's opinion of what you want or need in a dSLR body.

    As a counterpart to the Canon 28-135, I would recomment the Nikon 24-120VR,
    easily its equal. Or if you into sports phtography, the 70-200VR simply
    blows it away.

    HMc
     
    Howard McCollister, Dec 25, 2003
    #7
  8. Hogleg44/40

    Gavin Cato Guest

    hiya

    The D100 is the fastest of the lot in that bracket, it's not a massive
    difference though between them in broad daylight. In lower light the D100 is
    a fair bit better.

    The important thing is the lens, i.e. the D100 with the Nikon 70-200VR lens
    is a killer combo for action.

    Read this ;

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=5850861

    Cheers

    Gav




    "Hogleg44/40" <> wrote in message
    news:8lpGb.2111$...
    > Hello, All!
    >
    > Which DSLR in the $1000-$2000 price range has the fastest image capture
    > ability. I have a Sony 707 which is much faster than my previous
    > digicameras, but I still miss a lot of shots of playing grandchildren
    > because of the lag.
    > Am thinking presently of the EOS-10D Cannon.
    > Any input will be apreciated.
    >
    > With best regards,
    > Paul
    >
    >
     
    Gavin Cato, Dec 25, 2003
    #8
  9. Hogleg44/40

    MarkH Guest

    "Gavin Cato" <> wrote in news:3fea7dcd$:

    > The D100 is the fastest of the lot in that bracket, it's not a massive
    > difference though between them in broad daylight. In lower light the
    > D100 is a fair bit better.
    >
    > The important thing is the lens, i.e. the D100 with the Nikon 70-200VR
    > lens is a killer combo for action.
    >
    > Read this ;
    >
    > http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=5850861


    I read that but as a 10D user I couldn’t agree with any of it.

    The start up time of the 10D from when you turn it on is a non issue, so is
    the startup time after it goes to sleep. I set mine to 30 min sleep time,
    so it never turns itself off unless I accidentally leave it on when I put
    it in the bag. When I take it out of the bag I turn it on and I leave it
    on till I return it to the bag. The battery lasts for ages anyway.

    I get fast and accurate focus from the 28-135 lens even indoors where the
    only light is from a 25 watt bulb.

    The 10D ergonomics are good and it is a very easy camera to handle.



    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~markh/
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Dec 25, 2003
    #9
  10. Hogleg44/40

    DHB Guest

    Paul,
    you got a lot of good advice. If you get the Canon 10D, I agree
    100% that the Canon 28-135mm IS lens recommendation but would also strongly
    suggest the Canon 50mm f1.8 II lens. This will likely be your fastest lens
    & on the 10D it will have an effective focal length of 80mm due to the FOV
    1.6x crop factor.

    This is a great performing lens especially when you consider that it
    cost about $70 USD brand new. It focuses very quickly because it's such a
    bright lens & at an effective 80mm, makes for a very fast portrait/candid
    close-up lens. IMHO this should be a must have lens in every 300D/10D
    camera bag.

    That said, save up for a quality very wide angle zoon lens if wide angle
    is something you want. The 1.6x FOV crop factor goes in your favor if you
    shoot telephoto most of the time but it works against you if you want wide
    angle. So it forces you to get a wider angle lens just to get a wide angle
    shot out of it, i.e.. 17mm equiventant to 27.2mm lens.

    If money were not an issue I would have gone with the 10D myself but
    jumped at the 300D & spent the difference on lenses & accessories like the
    battery grip. If you can afford the 10D, I think it's the better option
    because as your skills grow the camera will have the features you will want
    to use. I wish my 300D had spot metering like the 10D does but I've learned
    to live without it in most situations. Aside from this & the poor indoor
    AWB which is easily corrected by setting & using a custom WB or by shooting
    in RAW mode, I am very pleased with the 300D's performance. In general
    whatever positive things can be said of the 300D also apply to the 10D as
    well!

    Best wishes & happy picture taking!

    Respectfully, DHB


    "MarkH" <> wrote in message
    news:bselpr$ub1$...
    > "Gavin Cato" <> wrote in news:3fea7dcd$:
    >
    > > The D100 is the fastest of the lot in that bracket, it's not a massive
    > > difference though between them in broad daylight. In lower light the
    > > D100 is a fair bit better.
    > >
    > > The important thing is the lens, i.e. the D100 with the Nikon 70-200VR
    > > lens is a killer combo for action.
    > >
    > > Read this ;
    > >
    > > http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=5850861

    >
    > I read that but as a 10D user I couldn’t agree with any of it.
    >
    > The start up time of the 10D from when you turn it on is a non issue, so

    is
    > the startup time after it goes to sleep. I set mine to 30 min sleep time,
    > so it never turns itself off unless I accidentally leave it on when I put
    > it in the bag. When I take it out of the bag I turn it on and I leave it
    > on till I return it to the bag. The battery lasts for ages anyway.
    >
    > I get fast and accurate focus from the 28-135 lens even indoors where the
    > only light is from a 25 watt bulb.
    >
    > The 10D ergonomics are good and it is a very easy camera to handle.
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    > See my pics at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~markh/
    > "There are 10 types of people, those that
    > understand binary and those that don't"
    >
     
    DHB, Dec 25, 2003
    #10
  11. Hogleg44/40

    Gavin Cato Guest

    "MarkH" <> wrote in message
    news:bselpr$ub1$...
    > "Gavin Cato" <> wrote in news:3fea7dcd$:
    >
    > > The D100 is the fastest of the lot in that bracket, it's not a massive
    > > difference though between them in broad daylight. In lower light the
    > > D100 is a fair bit better.
    > >
    > > The important thing is the lens, i.e. the D100 with the Nikon 70-200VR
    > > lens is a killer combo for action.
    > >
    > > Read this ;
    > >
    > > http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=5850861

    >
    > I read that but as a 10D user I couldn't agree with any of it.


    If you used a D100 you'd probably relate to it a bit better.

    > The start up time of the 10D from when you turn it on is a non issue


    Non issue for who? The time I used one it bugged the heck out of me, after
    being used to the instant on of my nikon dslr's.

    > I get fast and accurate focus from the 28-135 lens even indoors where the
    > only light is from a 25 watt bulb.


    Definition of fast varies from person to person :)

    > The 10D ergonomics are good and it is a very easy camera to handle.


    Thats down to personal opinion, I think compared to the Nikon bodies the
    Canon ergonomics are attrocious and are the biggest downpoint of Canon's
    cameras.

    Gav
    \
     
    Gavin Cato, Dec 25, 2003
    #11
  12. Howard McCollister wrote:

    > "Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" <> wrote in
    > message news:...
    > > Hogleg44/40 wrote:
    > >
    > > > Thanx for the fast replies Guys,
    > > > What you are saying is about what I expected, experienced response from
    > > > users means a whole lot.
    > > > The buffer size is not a big issue to me (at this point). I seldom take

    > the
    > > > pics in a very rapid sequence, and the only way the 707 holds me up is
    > > > waiting for the built in flash to charge....
    > > > Now to figure out what lenses???

    > >
    > > I recommend the canon 28-135 IS (image stabilization) lens.
    > > For the Canon 10D, D60, d-rebel, the pixel spacing is 7.4
    > > microns. You need a sharp lens to get sharp pictures.
    > > Many of the consumer lenses are not sharp enough in my
    > > opinion. The 28-135 is quite sharp. The 10D has a 9-frame
    > > buffer, which you will find you may need during critical
    > > action (like baby's first steps). The IS gives you sharper
    > > pictures while hand holding. Buy a fast memory card to support
    > > the 9-frame buffer (3 frames per second). Note the DSLRs have
    > > not movie mode (at least canons don't).
    > >

    >
    > OTOH, the Fuji S2 Pro demonstrates sharper images, better resolution and
    > noise performance that is markedly superior to the 10D (and D100). One added
    > benefit to Nikon lenses is that there are three different manufacturers that
    > make camera bodies using those lenses. Your lenses will be your major
    > expense. With Nikon lenses you are not locked into a single camera body
    > manfuacturer's opinion of what you want or need in a dSLR body.


    Well, test results don't indicate resolution is better. More like similar,
    but with more artifacts. See:
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page22.asp

    Regarding noise, the astronomers using digital cameras have
    overwhelmingly gone with the Canon 10D for its vastly
    lower noise.


    > As a counterpart to the Canon 28-135, I would recomment the Nikon 24-120VR,
    > easily its equal. Or if you into sports phtography, the 70-200VR simply
    > blows it away.


    This is very good news that Nikon has come out with more VR lenses
    (and I'm serious--I believe competition is great for us consumers),
    But if the nikon systems blows away canon, why are professional
    photographers switching to canon, from sports photographers to
    wildlife? Nikon still has no VR lenses in the long focal lengths,
    like 500 and 600 mm f/4.

    In practical terms for anyone but a pro, both Nikon and Canon produce
    excellent products and for the most part would perform pretty equally.

    Roger
     
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Dec 26, 2003
    #12
  13. Gavin Cato wrote:

    > hiya
    >
    > The D100 is the fastest of the lot in that bracket, it's not a massive
    > difference though between them in broad daylight. In lower light the D100 is
    > a fair bit better.
    >
    > The important thing is the lens, i.e. the D100 with the Nikon 70-200VR lens
    > is a killer combo for action.
    >
    > Read this ;
    >
    > http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=5850861
    >


    Well, try this (real data rather than a rant with no data):

    http://www.nikondigital.org/reviews/10D/canon_10d_review.htm
    "Canon's 10D D-SLR: The new Leader of the Pack"

    Compare:
    http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E10D/E10DP.HTM
    10D shutter lag = 0.146 sec.
    D100 shutter lag ? (can't find a reference)

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page11.asp
    10D continuous mode time to next shot:
    Raw: 1.9 seconds, 9 frames before buffer fills.
    best jpeg: 1.1 seconds, 9 frames before buffer fills.

    to:
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond100/page10.asp
    D100 continuous mode time to next shot:
    Raw: 5.8 sec, and only 4 frames before buffer fills,
    best jpeg: 1.3 sec, 7 frames before buffer fills

    Noise:
    At low ISO, D60 lower noise than D100:
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond100/page16.asp
    Then the 10D improved over D60 at high ISO
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page18.asp
    the above two plots are different data, so careful scaling is
    required. The 10D has lower noise at ISO 800 than D100 for
    the tests above (short exposure).
    At long exposure, astronomers report 10D has lowest noise
    (need a reference with data that actually shows this).
     
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Dec 26, 2003
    #13
  14. Hogleg44/40

    Gavin Cato Guest

    Look, I'm not saying that the 10D is a bad camera.

    But the user asked for which one was faster. It's very obvious when using
    the 2 cameras side by side that the D100 is faster in pretty much every
    operation of the body. As I said in my original post it's not a massive
    difference but it *is there*. For action use, the D100 is the pick of the
    two. For long exposures, sure - grab the 10D.

    Yes the 10D has lower noise, but this is really something thats noticed more
    by zooming in 100-200% in photoshop rather than seeing on prints or web
    scaled images.

    On the other side of the coin, (IMHO) the CCD on the D100 seems to render
    texture/detail more than the Canon CMOS sensors. I've believed that for a
    fair while, and was further convinced of it when I saw guys on the Canon
    forums at dpreview saying the exact same thing when they were comparing the
    CCD based 1D against the 10D.

    btw the D100 has 100ms shutter lag.

    Gav




    "Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    > Gavin Cato wrote:
    >
    > > hiya
    > >
    > > The D100 is the fastest of the lot in that bracket, it's not a massive
    > > difference though between them in broad daylight. In lower light the

    D100 is
    > > a fair bit better.
    > >
    > > The important thing is the lens, i.e. the D100 with the Nikon 70-200VR

    lens
    > > is a killer combo for action.
    > >
    > > Read this ;
    > >
    > > http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=5850861
    > >

    >
    > Well, try this (real data rather than a rant with no data):
    >
    > http://www.nikondigital.org/reviews/10D/canon_10d_review.htm
    > "Canon's 10D D-SLR: The new Leader of the Pack"
    >
    > Compare:
    > http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E10D/E10DP.HTM
    > 10D shutter lag = 0.146 sec.
    > D100 shutter lag ? (can't find a reference)
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page11.asp
    > 10D continuous mode time to next shot:
    > Raw: 1.9 seconds, 9 frames before buffer fills.
    > best jpeg: 1.1 seconds, 9 frames before buffer fills.
    >
    > to:
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond100/page10.asp
    > D100 continuous mode time to next shot:
    > Raw: 5.8 sec, and only 4 frames before buffer fills,
    > best jpeg: 1.3 sec, 7 frames before buffer fills
    >
    > Noise:
    > At low ISO, D60 lower noise than D100:
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond100/page16.asp
    > Then the 10D improved over D60 at high ISO
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page18.asp
    > the above two plots are different data, so careful scaling is
    > required. The 10D has lower noise at ISO 800 than D100 for
    > the tests above (short exposure).
    > At long exposure, astronomers report 10D has lowest noise
    > (need a reference with data that actually shows this).
    >
    >
    >
     
    Gavin Cato, Dec 26, 2003
    #14
  15. "Gavin Cato" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > But the user asked for which one was faster. It's very obvious when using
    > the 2 cameras side by side that the D100 is faster in pretty much every
    > operation of the body.


    I agree with you, the electronic side of the 10D is very much prosumer-slow.
     
    George Preddy, Dec 26, 2003
    #15
  16. DSLRs are faster for lots of reasons, see below, and they have little to no
    perceivable shutterlag. Here is the rundown...

    Shutter lag in secs...
    ------------------
    1Ds - .059
    D100 - .100
    10D - .104
    SD10 - .110
    14n - .119
    SD9 - .140
    300D - .142
    S2 Pro - .162

    Most fall within 4/100ths of a second. If you are after shooting speed, the
    main difference from your 707 will be recycle times, continuous drive modes,
    and body operation. The affordable DSLRs' continuous modes break down like
    this...

    6MP continuous drive
    ----------------------
    10D = 3 fps for 9 frames
    D100 =3 fps for 3 frames in RAW (or for 6 frames but JPEG only)
    S2 Pro = 2 fps for 7 frames
    SD10 = 2.5 fps for 40 frames
    SD10 at 10.3MP = 2 fps for 7 frames

    And unlike prosumers, you can continuously shoot 1 to replace 1, as the
    buffer writes out to the flash card.

    Also unlike prosumers, the flash won't limit recycle time. But a cheap
    flash won't be able to fire fast enough to keep up with the continuous drive
    modes either, so it might sporatically miss frames. Using my SD9, the flash
    keeps up in continous mode with strong batteries as long as you don't
    exposure compensate the flash itself to too high a power.

    Body operating speed is another major difference. Whereas the 707 requires
    6 (all different) switch actions and several seconds to get into a proper
    mode to then delete a shot, then another couple of seconds to switch back
    into a shooting mode, a DSLR doesn't need to switch modes. The SD9 will
    delete a shot as fast as you can hit the "delete" button and the "ok" button
    using both thumbs at the same time--so like no time is required--and the
    camera will shoot through even that operation if need be.

    Playback and image examination times and abilities vary among DSLRs, the
    Canons seem very slow to me, but I'm used to the Sigma which doesn't have
    any delays during navigation or when changing shots, but it does take about
    a half second to pop into full resolution detail after you settle on some
    panned/magnified image area. It's also nice that if you snap a new picture
    during image review, after the new image preview time expires (if any is
    selected), it comes right back to where you were.

    It's a real pleasure to use any DSLR over a any prosumer.
     
    George Preddy, Dec 26, 2003
    #16
  17. "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    news:bsh2vs$h6r$...
    > DSLRs are faster for lots of reasons, see below, and they have little to

    no
    > perceivable shutterlag. Here is the rundown...
    >
    > Shutter lag in secs...
    > ------------------
    > 1Ds - .059
    > D100 - .100
    > 10D - .104
    > SD10 - .110
    > 14n - .119
    > SD9 - .140
    > 300D - .142
    > S2 Pro - .162
    >
    > Most fall within 4/100ths of a second. If you are after shooting speed,

    the
    > main difference from your 707 will be recycle times, continuous drive

    modes,
    > and body operation. The affordable DSLRs' continuous modes break down

    like
    > this...
    >
    > 6MP continuous drive
    > ----------------------
    > 10D = 3 fps for 9 frames
    > D100 =3 fps for 3 frames in RAW (or for 6 frames but JPEG only)
    > S2 Pro = 2 fps for 7 frames
    > SD10 = 2.5 fps for 40 frames


    Sorry, that's 14 frames.

    > SD10 at 10.3MP = 2 fps for 7 frames
    >
    > And unlike prosumers, you can continuously shoot 1 to replace 1, as the
    > buffer writes out to the flash card.
    >
    > Also unlike prosumers, the flash won't limit recycle time. But a cheap
    > flash won't be able to fire fast enough to keep up with the continuous

    drive
    > modes either, so it might sporatically miss frames. Using my SD9, the

    flash
    > keeps up in continous mode with strong batteries as long as you don't
    > exposure compensate the flash itself to too high a power.
    >
    > Body operating speed is another major difference. Whereas the 707

    requires
    > 6 (all different) switch actions and several seconds to get into a proper
    > mode to then delete a shot, then another couple of seconds to switch back
    > into a shooting mode, a DSLR doesn't need to switch modes. The SD9 will
    > delete a shot as fast as you can hit the "delete" button and the "ok"

    button
    > using both thumbs at the same time--so like no time is required--and the
    > camera will shoot through even that operation if need be.
    >
    > Playback and image examination times and abilities vary among DSLRs, the
    > Canons seem very slow to me, but I'm used to the Sigma which doesn't have
    > any delays during navigation or when changing shots, but it does take

    about
    > a half second to pop into full resolution detail after you settle on some
    > panned/magnified image area. It's also nice that if you snap a new

    picture
    > during image review, after the new image preview time expires (if any is
    > selected), it comes right back to where you were.
    >
    > It's a real pleasure to use any DSLR over a any prosumer.
    >
    >
    >
     
    George Preddy, Dec 26, 2003
    #17
  18. "Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    >
    >
    > Howard McCollister wrote:
    >
    > > > I recommend the canon 28-135 IS (image stabilization) lens.
    > > > For the Canon 10D, D60, d-rebel, the pixel spacing is 7.4
    > > > microns. You need a sharp lens to get sharp pictures.
    > > > Many of the consumer lenses are not sharp enough in my
    > > > opinion. The 28-135 is quite sharp. The 10D has a 9-frame
    > > > buffer, which you will find you may need during critical
    > > > action (like baby's first steps). The IS gives you sharper
    > > > pictures while hand holding. Buy a fast memory card to support
    > > > the 9-frame buffer (3 frames per second). Note the DSLRs have
    > > > not movie mode (at least canons don't).
    > > >

    > >
    > > OTOH, the Fuji S2 Pro demonstrates sharper images, better resolution and
    > > noise performance that is markedly superior to the 10D (and D100). One

    added
    > > benefit to Nikon lenses is that there are three different manufacturers

    that
    > > make camera bodies using those lenses. Your lenses will be your major
    > > expense. With Nikon lenses you are not locked into a single camera body
    > > manfuacturer's opinion of what you want or need in a dSLR body.

    >
    > Well, test results don't indicate resolution is better. More like

    similar,
    > but with more artifacts. See:
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page22.asp
    >
    > Regarding noise, the astronomers using digital cameras have
    > overwhelmingly gone with the Canon 10D for its vastly
    > lower noise.
    >
    >
    > > As a counterpart to the Canon 28-135, I would recomment the Nikon

    24-120VR,
    > > easily its equal. Or if you into sports phtography, the 70-200VR simply
    > > blows it away.

    >
    > This is very good news that Nikon has come out with more VR lenses
    > (and I'm serious--I believe competition is great for us consumers),
    > But if the nikon systems blows away canon, why are professional
    > photographers switching to canon, from sports photographers to
    > wildlife? Nikon still has no VR lenses in the long focal lengths,
    > like 500 and 600 mm f/4.
    >


    > > As a counterpart to the Canon 28-135, I would recomment the Nikon

    24-120VR,
    > > easily its equal. Or if you into sports phtography, the 70-200VR simply
    > > blows it away.

    >
    > This is very good news that Nikon has come out with more VR lenses
    > (and I'm serious--I believe competition is great for us consumers),
    > But if the nikon systems blows away canon, why are professional
    > photographers switching to canon, from sports photographers to
    > wildlife? Nikon still has no VR lenses in the long focal lengths,
    > like 500 and 600 mm f/4.
    >




    Yes, the Nikon 70-200VR blows away the Canon 28-135 for sports photography.

    The nature of the CMOS sensor (less heat buildup when the sensor is powered)
    results in lower noise on longer exposures. For those of us that are not
    astrophotographers, the Fuji S2 Pro will have lower noise under most
    shooting conditions, and the 10D will be comparable to the D100.

    As to speed, since we're citing DP Review, try this one:
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=5850861

    Pros switching? That's a marketing coup, not an engineering triumph.

    Look I agree that Canon makes good cameras and lenses, and by applying smart
    marketing with good products, they have become (deservedly) the undisputed
    sales leader. I'd love to have a 1Ds. But when I was shopping a dSLR I could
    afford, it became very clear from many, many reviews that the S2 Pro
    outperformed the 10D in all areas that mattered to me. It's just an opinion,
    but I also found the Canon 10D to be uncomfortable to hold, poorly balanced.
    It's
    startup time-to-shot was maddening, and I was dismayed at the lack of spot
    metering. I'm sure it's a good camera, it just didn't suit me. It was
    cheaper than the Fuji too, so I really do wish I had liked it better.

    Canon is a great company. I have had several Canon point-and-shoots,
    currently keep an S400 in my camera bag. People can find things, opinions
    and reviews, on the internet to support any position they want. My research
    indicates the Fuji is superior, yours indicates the 10D is superior. Doesn't
    matter. The capability of either camera exceeds my skill as a photographer.

    HMc
     
    Howard McCollister, Dec 26, 2003
    #18
  19. George Preddy wrote:

    > DSLRs are faster for lots of reasons, see below, and they have little to no
    > perceivable shutterlag. Here is the rundown...
    >
    > Shutter lag in secs...
    > ------------------
    > 1Ds - .059
    > D100 - .100
    > 10D - .104
    > SD10 - .110
    > 14n - .119
    > SD9 - .140
    > 300D - .142
    > S2 Pro - .162


    George, where did you find these numbers. In my searching,
    I could find one number on one site, then another on another
    site, but test conditions were not necessarily the same.

    Roger
     
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Dec 26, 2003
    #19
  20. Howard McCollister wrote:

    > Yes, the Nikon 70-200VR blows away the Canon 28-135 for sports photography.


    Well, you are comparing a consumer line lens (canon=$400)
    with a pro lens (nikon=$1600). Compare to a canon pro lens,
    the 70-200 IS ($1600) and your results would be different.
    And you know what, neither of these may be used much in
    sports photography. Watch a football game this weekend and
    count the lenses: they'll mostly be 500 and 600mm. Then count
    black ones (nikon) versus white ones (canon).
    Same with wildlife. While shorter lenses are used, it will
    be with much less frequency. You can argue amateurs don't
    use the big lenses, but that's only because they can't afford
    them (although some still do).

    > The nature of the CMOS sensor (less heat buildup when the sensor is powered)
    > results in lower noise on longer exposures. For those of us that are not
    > astrophotographers, the Fuji S2 Pro will have lower noise under most
    > shooting conditions, and the 10D will be comparable to the D100.
    >
    > As to speed, since we're citing DP Review, try this one:
    > http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=5850861
    >


    Bull*crap This is the same thread of one user ranting with no data in another
    post in this thread. George has posted data that essentially shows the
    two cameras pretty equal. Each wins in one area then the other wins
    in another. And in the end pretty much equal. Equal so much
    in my opinion, that getting "the shot" is more due to the skill of
    the operator rather than technical advantage of nikon versus
    canon.

    > Pros switching? That's a marketing coup, not an engineering triumph.


    That is quite a slap in the face of many very smart pros. The switch going
    on is mainly due to canon's lens selection. The bodies change often
    and generally get better, but people invest more and keep lenses longer.
    The USM focusing and IS technology is outstanding. Canon has IS
    lenses in 500 and 600mm and Nikon does not. For a long time Nikon
    had no short focus VR lenses but canon did. But before this era, Nikon
    was the leader. I'm glad to see nikon catching up again, and I hope
    they run passed canon to spur more competition, which will make for
    better and lower priced products for all of us!

    Roger
    FYI photos: Here are some bird action shots:
    http://www.clarkvision.com/galleries/gallery.bird
    (and I'm sure the nikon shooters beside me got equally good ones)
     
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Dec 26, 2003
    #20
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