Fantasia 60th Anniv. - available in Widescreen?

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Sugapablo, Feb 9, 2004.

  1. Sugapablo

    Sugapablo Guest

    I was looking to buy Disney's Fantasia 60th Anniversary DVD today, but
    could only find fullscreen versions online.

    Is there a Widescreen version out there? If so, who's selling them?

    --
    [ Sugapablo ]
    [ http://www.sugapablo.com <--music ]
    [ http://www.sugapablo.net <--personal ]
    [ <--jabber IM ]
     
    Sugapablo, Feb 9, 2004
    #1
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  2. Sugapablo

    Sugapablo Guest

    Sugapablo, Feb 9, 2004
    #2
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  3. Sugapablo

    Lithurge Guest

    Sugapablo <> wrote in
    news::

    > In article <4027e7c4$0$3179$>, Derek
    > Janssen wrote:
    >>
    >> (Okay, who wants to be the one to post the bonehead
    >> "widescreen GWTW/Wizard of Oz" FAQ answer, and who wants
    >> to be the one to warn him Fantasia's already out of print
    >> while he's trying to figure it out?)

    >
    > Well enlighten me, since there's nothing in the FAQ on it:
    > http://www.dtvgroup.com/Comdex/DVD/Robert/dvdfaq.html
    >


    Ignore Derek, he has an inability to not react smugly when
    people make a mistake (killfiles are great).

    Whilst IMDB isn't always reliable, it is accurate for this
    one:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032455/technical

    From my rather poor memory I believe the first 'widescreen'
    film wasn't made until the early 50's, so Fantasia which was
    made in the 40's is in the correct aspect ratio.
     
    Lithurge, Feb 9, 2004
    #3
  4. Sugapablo

    Richard C. Guest

    Fantasia was NOT a widescreen movie.

    Only an idiot would want it butchered!
    ======================
    "Sugapablo" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    : I was looking to buy Disney's Fantasia 60th Anniversary DVD today, but
    : could only find fullscreen versions online.
    :
    : Is there a Widescreen version out there? If so, who's selling them?
    :
    : --
    : [ Sugapablo ]
    : [ http://www.sugapablo.com <--music ]
    : [ http://www.sugapablo.net <--personal ]
    : [ <--jabber IM ]
     
    Richard C., Feb 9, 2004
    #4
  5. Sugapablo

    Invid Fan Guest

    In article <4027f2a8$0$3195$>, Derek Janssen
    <> wrote:

    > Sugapablo wrote:
    >
    > >>(Okay, who wants to be the one to post the bonehead "widescreen
    > >>GWTW/Wizard of Oz" FAQ answer, and who wants to be the one to warn him
    > >>Fantasia's already going out of print while he's trying to figure it out?)

    > >
    > > Well enlighten me, since there's nothing in the FAQ on it:
    > > http://www.dtvgroup.com/Comdex/DVD/Robert/dvdfaq.html

    >
    > Widescreen wasn't invented until the 50's, and "Fantasia" was from 1940--
    > Hence the reason loud group groans usually accompany any enthusiastic
    > questions about "where to find" (or "why those companies didn't
    > release") widescreen versions of GWTW, WOz, Citizen Kane, Snow White,
    > Robin Hood, etc...
    >

    Fantasia was re-released widescreen at least once, I think, which would
    lead to confustion. Could be wrong, naturally, and I can't remember the
    ratio I saw it in durring a late 80's/early 90's re-released.

    --
    Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
    'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
    -'Deal/No Deal', CHESS
     
    Invid Fan, Feb 9, 2004
    #5
  6. Sugapablo wrote:

    > I was looking to buy Disney's Fantasia 60th Anniversary DVD today, but
    > could only find fullscreen versions online.
    >
    > Is there a Widescreen version out there? If so, who's selling them?


    (Okay, who wants to be the one to post the bonehead "widescreen
    GWTW/Wizard of Oz" FAQ answer, and who wants to be the one to warn him
    Fantasia's already out of print while he's trying to figure it out?)

    Derek Janssen (hint: Why was Cinemascope popular in the *50's*???)
     
    Derek Janssen, Feb 9, 2004
    #6
  7. Sugapablo

    jayembee Guest

    Lithurge <> wrote:

    >From my rather poor memory I believe the first 'widescreen'
    >film wasn't made until the early 50's, so Fantasia which was
    >made in the 40's is in the correct aspect ratio.


    To be specific, the first widescreen film was THE ROBE, released in
    October 1953. To be more accurate, it was the film that began the use
    of widescreen as a common format. There had been occasional widescreen
    films going back to the 20s.

    -- jayembee
     
    jayembee, Feb 9, 2004
    #7
  8. Sugapablo wrote:

    >>(Okay, who wants to be the one to post the bonehead "widescreen
    >>GWTW/Wizard of Oz" FAQ answer, and who wants to be the one to warn him
    >>Fantasia's already going out of print while he's trying to figure it out?)

    >
    > Well enlighten me, since there's nothing in the FAQ on it:
    > http://www.dtvgroup.com/Comdex/DVD/Robert/dvdfaq.html


    Widescreen wasn't invented until the 50's, and "Fantasia" was from 1940--
    Hence the reason loud group groans usually accompany any enthusiastic
    questions about "where to find" (or "why those companies didn't
    release") widescreen versions of GWTW, WOz, Citizen Kane, Snow White,
    Robin Hood, etc...

    Derek Janssen
     
    Derek Janssen, Feb 9, 2004
    #8
  9. Sugapablo

    Steve K. Guest

    Sugapablo wrote:
    > I was looking to buy Disney's Fantasia 60th Anniversary DVD today, but
    > could only find fullscreen versions online.



    I wonder why? Hmmmm......
     
    Steve K., Feb 10, 2004
    #9
  10. Invid Fan wrote:

    >>Widescreen wasn't invented until the 50's, and "Fantasia" was from 1940--
    >>Hence the reason loud group groans usually accompany any enthusiastic
    >>questions about "where to find" (or "why those companies didn't
    >>release") widescreen versions of GWTW, WOz, Citizen Kane, Snow White,
    >>Robin Hood, etc...

    >
    > Fantasia was re-released widescreen at least once, I think, which would
    > lead to confustion. Could be wrong, naturally, and I can't remember the
    > ratio I saw it in durring a late 80's/early 90's re-released.


    Yes, but the 60th Anniv. was put together as THE version (ie., '40 vault
    theatrical-restored, complete with all the narration/orchestra stuff),
    and hence original-ratio...No Irwin Kostal 1985 tweaking here.

    Also, in case it gets buried in the thread, think the two Disney
    Fantasia disks were among the five which went back in the vault on Jan.
    31 (along with the Jungle Book and 101 Dalmatian sequels, which could
    resurface in interesting packages), so let's not hash this one too far
    out when the OP could be spending his time buying one of the straggler
    copies. :)

    Derek Janssen (who still hasn't found a rogue "Ed Wood" on the usual
    shelves)
     
    Derek Janssen, Feb 10, 2004
    #10
  11. There ought to be some sort of standardized mark on DVD's to indicate
    that it's the original aspect ratio. Something like a filmstrip graphic
    with "OAR" in the middle.

    So that people wanting to have a movie as originaly shown can identify
    it right away whether it's widescreen or (like in the case of Fantasia,
    GWTW, Citizen Kane, Wizard Of Oz, Casablanca) the more TV shaped Academy
    ratio.

    Mike



    Sugapablo wrote:
    >
    > I was looking to buy Disney's Fantasia 60th Anniversary DVD today, but
    > could only find fullscreen versions online.
    >
    > Is there a Widescreen version out there? If so, who's selling them?
    >
    > --
    > [ Sugapablo ]
    > [ http://www.sugapablo.com <--music ]
    > [ http://www.sugapablo.net <--personal ]
    > [ <--jabber IM ]
     
    Michael Rogers, Feb 10, 2004
    #11
  12. Sugapablo

    Biz Guest

    The OAR of Fantasia is around 1.33 or 1.37 called "academy ratio". Except
    for a few exceptions, every movie made b4 around 1953 when THe Robe was
    released was not widescreen...
    "Sugapablo" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I was looking to buy Disney's Fantasia 60th Anniversary DVD today, but
    > could only find fullscreen versions online.
    >
    > Is there a Widescreen version out there? If so, who's selling them?
    >
    > --
    > [ Sugapablo ]
    > [ http://www.sugapablo.com <--music ]
    > [ http://www.sugapablo.net <--personal ]
    > [ <--jabber IM ]
     
    Biz, Feb 10, 2004
    #12
  13. Sugapablo

    Scot Gardner Guest

    "jayembee" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Lithurge <> wrote:
    >
    > >From my rather poor memory I believe the first 'widescreen'
    > >film wasn't made until the early 50's, so Fantasia which was
    > >made in the 40's is in the correct aspect ratio.

    >
    > To be specific, the first widescreen film was THE ROBE, released in
    > October 1953. To be more accurate, it was the film that began the use
    > of widescreen as a common format. There had been occasional widescreen
    > films going back to the 20s.
    >
    > -- jayembee



    Here's one of the earliest: _The Big Trail_ (1930)

    "Only three years after Able Gance's "Napoleon," was released in the
    revolutionary Spherical (1:33:1) and Triptych (4:00:1 aspect ratio)
    process, Raoul Walsh's "The Big Trail" hit the market, shot in
    then-experimental "Fox Grandeur 70 mm." "

    "That alone makes "The Big Trail" a technically significant film. Word
    has it that it failed economically, in part due to only two U.S.
    theatres presenting its original format (NYC's Roxy and LA's Grauman's
    Chinese Theatres). The rest of the country's movie houses balked at the
    cost of the extra equipment necessary, after having recently converted
    to sound. (Does this seem reminiscent of the "'Star Wars' digital
    satellite controversy" of 2002?)"

    "Finding a VHS or DVD widescreen print of "The Big Trail" is difficult.
    It's been shown on tv and in special movie houses that way on occasion.
    Generally, though, one gets a standard screen version, which fails to
    capture the eye-popping 70 mm. aspect ratio of the original."

    http://us.imdb.com/CommentsShow?0020691

    http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0020691/maindetails

    The Internet Database shows the specifications of this antique talkie:

    Aspect ratio
    1.37 : 1 (35 mm version)
    2.10 : 1 (70 mm version)

    Laboratory
    Karl Malkames for MOMA (restoration)

    Film length (metres)
    3448.35 m (13-14 reels) (35 mm version)
    4328.16 m (13-14 reels) (70 mm version)

    Film negative format (mm/video inches)
    35 mm (alternate regular version)
    70 mm (nitrate)

    Cinematographic process
    Grandeur (70 mm version)
    Spherical (35 mm version)

    Printed film format
    35 mm (anamorphic) (reduction from 70 mm version)
    35 mm (restored)
    35 mm
    70 mm

    I was under the impression that widescreen movies didn't come into being
    until the 50s.

    http://us.imdb.com/Technical?0020691

    On Sunday, May 26, 2002 5:00 PM , Fox Movie Channel (FMC) played the
    1930 John Wayne movie _The Big Trail_. I was surprised to see that the
    movie was a widescreen presentation, with black bars on the top and the
    bottom of the picture.

    I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself.
     
    Scot Gardner, Feb 10, 2004
    #13
  14. Sugapablo

    Doonie Guest

    On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 23:15:16 GMT, jayembee wrote:

    >Lithurge wrote:
    >
    >>From my rather poor memory I believe the first 'widescreen'
    >>film wasn't made until the early 50's, so Fantasia which was
    >>made in the 40's is in the correct aspect ratio.

    >
    >To be specific, the first widescreen film was THE ROBE, released in
    >October 1953. To be more accurate, it was the film that began the use
    >of widescreen as a common format. There had been occasional widescreen
    >films going back to the 20s.


    I thought The Robe was only the first Cinemascope film.
     
    Doonie, Feb 10, 2004
    #14
  15. On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:53:24 -0000, Sugapablo
    <> wrote:

    >I was looking to buy Disney's Fantasia 60th Anniversary DVD today, but
    >could only find fullscreen versions online.
    >
    >Is there a Widescreen version out there? If so, who's selling them?



    I think the confusion comes from the fact that the original 1940
    Fantasia is in 1.33:1 format, whereas Fantasia 2000 is, except for the
    Sorcerers Apprentice segment taken from the 1940 film, in 1.8:1
    widescreen format (nominal).

    Charles
    nzvidedos.org
     
    Charles Eggen, Feb 10, 2004
    #15
  16. Sugapablo

    jayembee Guest

    Doonie <> wrote:

    >jayembee wrote:
    >
    >>Lithurge wrote:
    >>
    >>>From my rather poor memory I believe the first 'widescreen'
    >>>film wasn't made until the early 50's, so Fantasia which was
    >>>made in the 40's is in the correct aspect ratio.

    >>
    >>To be specific, the first widescreen film was THE ROBE, released in
    >>October 1953. To be more accurate, it was the film that began the use
    >>of widescreen as a common format. There had been occasional widescreen
    >>films going back to the 20s.

    >
    > I thought The Robe was only the first Cinemascope film.


    Well, it was the first CinemaScope film, but it was also the advent of
    widescreen filming as a common practice.

    -- jayembee
     
    jayembee, Feb 10, 2004
    #16
  17. Sugapablo

    Invid Fan Guest

    In article <>, Charles Eggen
    <> wrote:

    > On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:53:24 -0000, Sugapablo
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >I was looking to buy Disney's Fantasia 60th Anniversary DVD today, but
    > >could only find fullscreen versions online.
    > >
    > >Is there a Widescreen version out there? If so, who's selling them?

    >
    >
    > I think the confusion comes from the fact that the original 1940
    > Fantasia is in 1.33:1 format, whereas Fantasia 2000 is, except for the
    > Sorcerers Apprentice segment taken from the 1940 film, in 1.8:1
    > widescreen format (nominal).
    >

    Fantasia 2000 was first shown in 1.33:1 on Imax screens, so that also
    leads to confusiton. I assume that version was cut down from the
    widescreen version?

    --
    Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
    'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
    -'Deal/No Deal', CHESS
     
    Invid Fan, Feb 10, 2004
    #17
  18. Sugapablo

    Ian S Guest

    "Invid Fan" <> wrote in message
    news:100220041823328112%...
    > In article <>, Charles Eggen
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > > On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:53:24 -0000, Sugapablo
    > > <> wrote:
    > >
    > > >I was looking to buy Disney's Fantasia 60th Anniversary DVD today, but
    > > >could only find fullscreen versions online.
    > > >
    > > >Is there a Widescreen version out there? If so, who's selling them?

    > >
    > >
    > > I think the confusion comes from the fact that the original 1940
    > > Fantasia is in 1.33:1 format, whereas Fantasia 2000 is, except for the
    > > Sorcerers Apprentice segment taken from the 1940 film, in 1.8:1
    > > widescreen format (nominal).
    > >

    > Fantasia 2000 was first shown in 1.33:1 on Imax screens, so that also
    > leads to confusiton. I assume that version was cut down from the
    > widescreen version?
    >


    Or vice versa?

    Ian S
     
    Ian S, Feb 11, 2004
    #18
  19. Sugapablo

    Wade365 Guest

    I love how Derr-ick treats this news group like some sort of Masonic gathering
    not to be shared with 'newbies'. Get out and get a little sunshine once in
    awhile, you basement dweller.

    "Who wants to tell them blah? Who wants to say woof?"

    If you were half the know-it-all you pretend to be you'd just answer the
    question instead of trying to belittle the inquirer... there was a time when
    you didn't know it either, try to remember the Days of Derrek the Ignorant and
    you'll have a few more friends at your funeral, you net-punk.

    Beating up on others verbally doesn't remove all the beatings you must have
    received on the playground.
     
    Wade365, Feb 13, 2004
    #19
  20. Sugapablo

    Eli Guest

    Sugapablo <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > I was looking to buy Disney's Fantasia 60th Anniversary DVD today, but
    > could only find fullscreen versions online.
    >
    > Is there a Widescreen version out there? If so, who's selling them?


    The "academy ratio" was universally accepted as the best and proper
    aspect ratio up to the 1950s when the studios began to feel the
    pressure from television. Even black and white TV was putting a dent
    into the movie box office. The studios decided to try fighting back
    and one of the methods used was to experiment with new and bizarre
    aspect ratios. This increased the differentiation between TV and
    movies. The present "widescreen" formats are a relic of that battle
    which ended with 'B' movies becoming less popular and generally higher
    quality films. But many studios did not return to the 'academy ratio'
    but continued to make widescreen productions. At the same time, the
    studios were (and are) very aware of the market for TV and later VHS
    and DVD so the widescreen movies are always (with a few mistakes by
    inexperienced directors) shot such that a "pan and scan" transfer can
    be made which increases the immediacy and presence of the movie on a
    small screen while preserving all relevant picture elements. Thus the
    pan and scan (P&S) is really the preferred video format and an
    improvement over the widescreen movie (at least on a TV set). But
    best of all is a movie like Fantasia made before the battle so that
    the academy ratio is preserved even without the need for a P&S
    transfer. More recently, many studios are returning to academy ratio.
    It is often called "open matte" probably to remind the director that
    the top and bottom of the picture will be chopped off in the theatre.
    Full screen videos of the "open matte" movies will contain the whole
    picture while widescreen versions will be "vertical pan & scans" of
    the fullscreen original. The widescreen DVD fad will live on for a
    while, aided by people unaware of the history of the medium, but it's
    years are numbered. There will probably always be a few widescreen
    releases (just as there are on VHS) of movies the director screwed up
    filming so badly that a good P&S is impossible, but they will be the
    exception rather than the rule.
     
    Eli, Feb 15, 2004
    #20
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