Fair Go! Telecom ADSL Charges

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Ron McNulty, Nov 10, 2004.

  1. Ron McNulty

    Ron McNulty Guest

    I've just watched a Fair Go episode, where an educational establishment was
    complaining about being charged $70 + excess usage for full-speed ADSL on
    the 600MB business plan. Fair Go seem to think that the complainer would
    qualify for the 10GB home-line deal recently released. (But they also
    described ADSL as a much faster "dial-up" service)

    It is my understanding that Telecom still intend to charge businesses
    exorbitant fees for full-speed ADSL - like the $70 for 600MB being
    complained about.

    Can anyone put me right - or is it 0.7c/MB on the home plan, and 11c/MB on
    the business plan?

    And is my home office a business?

    Regards

    Ron McNulty
    Ron McNulty, Nov 10, 2004
    #1
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  2. Ron McNulty

    maz Guest

    "Ron McNulty" <> wrote in message
    news:NIjkd.521$...
    > I've just watched a Fair Go episode, where an educational establishment

    was
    > complaining about being charged $70 + excess usage for full-speed ADSL on
    > the 600MB business plan. Fair Go seem to think that the complainer would
    > qualify for the 10GB home-line deal recently released. (But they also
    > described ADSL as a much faster "dial-up" service)
    >
    > It is my understanding that Telecom still intend to charge businesses
    > exorbitant fees for full-speed ADSL - like the $70 for 600MB being
    > complained about.
    >
    > Can anyone put me right - or is it 0.7c/MB on the home plan, and 11c/MB on
    > the business plan?
    >
    > And is my home office a business?
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Ron McNulty
    >
    >


    For home offices, it shouldn't be considered as a business account with
    Telecon.
    maz, Nov 10, 2004
    #2
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  3. Ron McNulty

    steve Guest

    steve, Nov 10, 2004
    #3
  4. Ron McNulty

    Gurble Guest

    On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:54:16 +1300, "Ron McNulty"
    <> had this to say:

    >I've just watched a Fair Go episode, where an educational establishment was
    >complaining about being charged $70 + excess usage for full-speed ADSL on
    >the 600MB business plan. Fair Go seem to think that the complainer would
    >qualify for the 10GB home-line deal recently released. (But they also
    >described ADSL as a much faster "dial-up" service)
    >
    >It is my understanding that Telecom still intend to charge businesses
    >exorbitant fees for full-speed ADSL - like the $70 for 600MB being
    >complained about.


    Yes, Telecom are still extorting businesses who need fullspeed
    Jetstream. I, as with many other business managers I've discussed this
    with, will be moving away from Telecon at the first possible
    opportunity.

    Even if they bring in a reasonable plan at the same time that they are
    finally forced to let others do it, it's too little too late as far as
    we're concerned. We're absolutely sick of paying $500 to $1500 a month
    to Telecon for internet access, knowing what it costs them. We are a
    small business, and are basically handing our profits to an aggressive
    monopolist who is, IMO illegally and aggressively taking advantage of
    their monopolistic position to squeeze as much money as they can from
    businesses, but only while there's no alternative. We work damned hard
    for the business, and I don't think Telecon realise the sheer anger we
    and many others feel towards them when we hand over the slim spoils of
    our toil to them for something that costs them bugger all, and when
    there (was) no alternative - not that they would care.

    At very least they are now begrudgingly offering 256Kbps connections
    (at twice the cost of exactly the same service for residential
    customers, of course). They are only doing this, of course, as they've
    been forced to allow others to do the same. Before this was allowed,
    their extortionist fullspeed jetstream was the only option for
    businesses.

    And our pathetic politicians and Commerce Commission say there's no
    need to unbundle the local loop. It's like something you'd see in a
    Tui's ad.

    Quite honestly, I seriously believe it is because of the attitudes and
    policies from corporations like Telecon, who extort as much as they
    can possibly get away with from small businesses, that NZ's small
    business failure rate is so high.

    >Can anyone put me right - or is it 0.7c/MB on the home plan, and 11c/MB on
    >the business plan?
    >
    >And is my home office a business?
    >

    Home Businesses are treated in the same way as residential customers
    at this point. Telecon encourages home businesses to register
    themselves with Telecom (offering a "free" listing in their similarly
    monopolistic and overpriced yellow pages). However, if I still owned a
    home business I wouldn't tell them. I'd put money on the fact that
    they will start trying to squeeze home businessses shortly, now that
    they are being forced to limit their small business extortionistic
    practices. Watch this space.

    </rant>
    Gurble, Nov 10, 2004
    #4
  5. Ron McNulty

    Richard Guest

    Gurble wrote:

    > And our pathetic politicians and Commerce Commission say there's no
    > need to unbundle the local loop. It's like something you'd see in a
    > Tui's ad.


    Perhaps something to go plaster over some of the tui bilboards ;)

    > Home Businesses are treated in the same way as residential customers
    > at this point. Telecon encourages home businesses to register
    > themselves with Telecom (offering a "free" listing in their similarly
    > monopolistic and overpriced yellow pages). However, if I still owned a
    > home business I wouldn't tell them. I'd put money on the fact that
    > they will start trying to squeeze home businessses shortly, now that
    > they are being forced to limit their small business extortionistic
    > practices. Watch this space.


    Wouldnt suprise me, and there home business calling rates are nothing special
    either, telstra-clears were slightly lower, but I just leave my direct dial with
    telecom and use 0567 to put the calls thru digiplus on there offpeak -
    30c+gst/min to both mobile networks.
    Richard, Nov 10, 2004
    #5
  6. Ron McNulty

    Mike_P Guest

    "Ron McNulty" <> wrote in message
    news:NIjkd.521$...
    > I've just watched a Fair Go episode, where an educational establishment
    > was
    > complaining about being charged $70 + excess usage for full-speed ADSL on
    > the 600MB business plan. Fair Go seem to think that the complainer would
    > qualify for the 10GB home-line deal recently released. (But they also
    > described ADSL as a much faster "dial-up" service)
    >
    > It is my understanding that Telecom still intend to charge businesses
    > exorbitant fees for full-speed ADSL - like the $70 for 600MB being
    > complained about.
    >
    > Can anyone put me right - or is it 0.7c/MB on the home plan, and 11c/MB on
    > the business plan?
    >
    > And is my home office a business?
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Ron McNulty
    >
    >


    No, it's a Home Business... and by registering it as such you get a pretty
    good deal, relatively speaking, from Telecom.
    http://www.telecom.co.nz/stream/0,3898,101202-203089,00.html

    Mike_P
    Mike_P, Nov 10, 2004
    #6
  7. Ron McNulty

    Rob Guest

    "Ron McNulty" <> wrote in message news:<NIjkd.521$>...
    > I've just watched a Fair Go episode, where an educational establishment was
    > complaining about being charged $70 + excess usage for full-speed ADSL on
    > the 600MB business plan. Fair Go seem to think that the complainer would
    > qualify for the 10GB home-line deal recently released. (But they also
    > described ADSL as a much faster "dial-up" service)
    >
    > It is my understanding that Telecom still intend to charge businesses
    > exorbitant fees for full-speed ADSL - like the $70 for 600MB being
    > complained about.
    >
    > Can anyone put me right - or is it 0.7c/MB on the home plan, and 11c/MB on
    > the business plan?


    I had some thoughts on that FairGo report though. The complainant was
    a lawyer firstly, and I know that lawyers like to dot their I's and
    cross their T's. I'm surprised that he didn't look into the
    possibility of excess usage charges when signing up for it. Perhaps
    Telecom can be faulted for not being more explicit about it when
    joining them up.

    The other thing was why they went over their cap. He claimed that
    they had virus scanned email at the ISP and had Nortons scanning on
    their server and yet somehow, a virus miraculously got in and created
    traffic. Sounds more like "oooh look how fast it is, let downloads
    some movie trailers".

    Having said all that, 600mb is still a ridiculously low cap for a
    business, especially when Telecom clearly recognise a 10Gb cap as
    being more realistic for home use. Surely it is logical to assume
    that a business generally has more users and therefore more traffic?
    Rob, Nov 10, 2004
    #7
  8. Ron McNulty

    Mackin Guest

    Rob wrote:

    > "Ron McNulty" <> wrote in message
    > news:<NIjkd.521$>...
    >> I've just watched a Fair Go episode, where an educational establishment
    >> was complaining about being charged $70 + excess usage for full-speed
    >> ADSL on the 600MB business plan. Fair Go seem to think that the
    >> complainer would qualify for the 10GB home-line deal recently released.
    >> (But they also described ADSL as a much faster "dial-up" service)
    >>
    >> It is my understanding that Telecom still intend to charge businesses
    >> exorbitant fees for full-speed ADSL - like the $70 for 600MB being
    >> complained about.
    >>
    >> Can anyone put me right - or is it 0.7c/MB on the home plan, and 11c/MB
    >> on the business plan?

    >
    > I had some thoughts on that FairGo report though. The complainant was
    > a lawyer firstly, and I know that lawyers like to dot their I's and
    > cross their T's. I'm surprised that he didn't look into the
    > possibility of excess usage charges when signing up for it. Perhaps
    > Telecom can be faulted for not being more explicit about it when
    > joining them up.
    >
    > The other thing was why they went over their cap. He claimed that
    > they had virus scanned email at the ISP and had Nortons scanning on
    > their server and yet somehow, a virus miraculously got in and created
    > traffic. Sounds more like "oooh look how fast it is, let downloads
    > some movie trailers".
    >
    > Having said all that, 600mb is still a ridiculously low cap for a
    > business, especially when Telecom clearly recognise a 10Gb cap as
    > being more realistic for home use. Surely it is logical to assume
    > that a business generally has more users and therefore more traffic?


    He was most likely not a lawyer, it was a "community law centre", they only
    have lawyers visit on a part-time basis, he was most likely an office
    administrator for the centre. He should have checked the fine print before
    complaining.

    Mackin.
    Mackin, Nov 11, 2004
    #8
  9. Ron McNulty

    Nigel Guest

    On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:14:43 +1300, Mackin wrote:


    >>
    >> Having said all that, 600mb is still a ridiculously low cap for a
    >> business, especially when Telecom clearly recognise a 10Gb cap as being
    >> more realistic for home use. Surely it is logical to assume that a
    >> business generally has more users and therefore more traffic?

    >
    > He was most likely not a lawyer, it was a "community law centre", they
    > only have lawyers visit on a part-time basis, he was most likely an office
    > administrator for the centre. He should have checked the fine print
    > before complaining.


    True, but the fact Telecom never warned him of what was obviously a pretty
    serious over usage is poor customer service, you'd think they could at
    least provide a weekly bandwidth summary email.

    Nigel

    P.S. How anyone thinks 600MB for a 6mbit pipe is enough is beyond me.
    Nigel, Nov 11, 2004
    #9
  10. Nigel wrote:
    > P.S. How anyone thinks 600MB for a 6mbit pipe is enough is beyond me.


    I know of quite a few small(under 10 user) business's running their own
    email servers who come nowhere near 600MB in a month.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Nov 11, 2004
    #10
  11. Ron McNulty

    Nigel Guest

    On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:08:04 +1300, Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:

    > Nigel wrote:
    >> P.S. How anyone thinks 600MB for a 6mbit pipe is enough is beyond me.

    >
    > I know of quite a few small(under 10 user) business's running their own
    > email servers who come nowhere near 600MB in a month.


    Good point, pure email would be fine for that.

    Though arguable what the advantage would be over a 256k ADSL, though the
    productivity advantage of not allowing surfing is not inconsiderable :).

    Nigel
    Nigel, Nov 11, 2004
    #11
  12. Dave - Dave.net.nz said the following on 11/11/2004 15:08:
    > Nigel wrote:
    >
    >> P.S. How anyone thinks 600MB for a 6mbit pipe is enough is beyond me.

    >
    >
    > I know of quite a few small(under 10 user) business's running their own
    > email servers who come nowhere near 600MB in a month.

    I have a law office, QC and a Solicitor with Office lady, who have a 600
    cap and use email with attachments a lot, they only get through about
    700M a month

    --
    >>Follow ups may be set to a single group when appropriate!

    ======================================================================
    | Local 40.9000°S, 174.9830°E |
    ======================================================================
    "I used to jog, but the ice kept bouncing out of my glass."
    Geek used to be a 4 letter word now it's a 6 figure number
    Collector»NZ, Nov 11, 2004
    #12
  13. Collector»NZ wrote:
    >>> P.S. How anyone thinks 600MB for a 6mbit pipe is enough is beyond me.


    >> I know of quite a few small(under 10 user) business's running their
    >> own email servers who come nowhere near 600MB in a month.


    > I have a law office, QC and a Solicitor with Office lady, who have a 600
    > cap and use email with attachments a lot, they only get through about
    > 700M a month


    I'd almost guarantee that if they cut out the personal emails they'd be
    under cap. :)
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Nov 11, 2004
    #13
  14. Ron McNulty

    thing Guest

    Gurble wrote:
    > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:54:16 +1300, "Ron McNulty"
    > <> had this to say:
    >
    >
    >>I've just watched a Fair Go episode, where an educational establishment was
    >>complaining about being charged $70 + excess usage for full-speed ADSL on
    >>the 600MB business plan. Fair Go seem to think that the complainer would
    >>qualify for the 10GB home-line deal recently released. (But they also
    >>described ADSL as a much faster "dial-up" service)
    >>
    >>It is my understanding that Telecom still intend to charge businesses
    >>exorbitant fees for full-speed ADSL - like the $70 for 600MB being
    >>complained about.

    >
    >
    > Yes, Telecom are still extorting businesses who need fullspeed
    > Jetstream. I, as with many other business managers I've discussed this
    > with, will be moving away from Telecon at the first possible
    > opportunity.
    >
    > Even if they bring in a reasonable plan at the same time that they are
    > finally forced to let others do it, it's too little too late as far as
    > we're concerned. We're absolutely sick of paying $500 to $1500 a month
    > to Telecon for internet access, knowing what it costs them. We are a
    > small business, and are basically handing our profits to an aggressive
    > monopolist who is, IMO illegally and aggressively taking advantage of
    > their monopolistic position to squeeze as much money as they can from
    > businesses, but only while there's no alternative. We work damned hard
    > for the business, and I don't think Telecon realise the sheer anger we
    > and many others feel towards them when we hand over the slim spoils of
    > our toil to them for something that costs them bugger all, and when
    > there (was) no alternative - not that they would care.
    >
    > At very least they are now begrudgingly offering 256Kbps connections
    > (at twice the cost of exactly the same service for residential
    > customers, of course). They are only doing this, of course, as they've
    > been forced to allow others to do the same. Before this was allowed,
    > their extortionist fullspeed jetstream was the only option for
    > businesses.
    >
    > And our pathetic politicians and Commerce Commission say there's no
    > need to unbundle the local loop. It's like something you'd see in a
    > Tui's ad.
    >
    > Quite honestly, I seriously believe it is because of the attitudes and
    > policies from corporations like Telecon, who extort as much as they
    > can possibly get away with from small businesses, that NZ's small
    > business failure rate is so high.
    >
    > </rant>


    I have to agree with you fully, Ive come across enough instances of
    Telecom's extortion rates that the only one profiting from a small
    business's endevours seems to be Telecom.

    Devil or the deep blue sea, get broadband in order to try and
    build/expand a business and find that the costs are so high that it is
    marginal whether it is worth while doing so.

    I believe the Government will not deal with Telecom in the next 5 years
    because the consequences of Telecom's shares crashing is too much for
    our politicians to deal with. The result is a huge private tax on
    smaller companies, the ones that probably do more to sustain NZ's
    economy than these big Nationals.

    It is ironic that while the business roundtable whine about taxes and
    compliance costs (that have actually dropped something like 15% and are
    the lowest in the world) they are so accepting of the monopolistic hits
    on their own by their own.

    Just why our Government feels obliged in continuing to allow many
    foreign companies as importers and our own big Nationals to continue to
    take huge advantage of the monopolies handed to them when the true cost
    of production for many of these items is now in the commodity braket is
    plain silly.

    Until people make it an election issue, I do not believe it will change.
    So maybe more single focus political groups should spring up to bring
    pressure on the politicians, then maybe we would really see a level
    playing field.

    >"I don't think Telecon realise the sheer anger we
    > and many others feel towards them when we hand over the slim spoils of
    > our toil to them for something that costs them bugger all, and when
    > there (was) no alternative - not that they would care."


    I personally do not believe they do, in the slightest. I do not use a
    telecom mobile, landline, adsl or ISP service on principle.

    As for competition to Telecom, its what, <insert some company here>. A
    company who is trying to ripoff smaller companies by de-peering. I have
    been told that it is planning on getting a payment from a "site/smaller
    ISP" for allowing its customers to get to the site all the while getting
    a fee from its own customers. If the site will not pay acuse others of
    being at fault when their own customers ring up to complain.

    So it is using its muscle in NZ to rip people off all the while the true
    cost of international Internet traffic is dropping and while the cost of
    traffic within NZ is virtually zero.

    So no difference really....

    </rant>

    ;]

    regards

    Thing
    thing, Nov 11, 2004
    #14
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