External HD vs Tape Backup

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Collins, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. Collins

    Collins Guest

    I would have thought that backing up the hard drive to an external hard
    drive would be the best way to go. However my computer tech insist on me
    buying a tape drive from him to back up to. The tape drive will cost
    $1080, but I can buy a Maxtor external drive for under $200. Is the
    tape drive actually more reliable and faster than a separate hard drive?
    Which type of backup do you use?
     
    Collins, Mar 26, 2006
    #1
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  2. Collins

    Mara Guest

    On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 21:58:17 -0500, Collins <leethjATadelphiaDOTnet> wrote:

    >I would have thought that backing up the hard drive to an external hard
    >drive would be the best way to go. However my computer tech insist on me
    >buying a tape drive from him to back up to. The tape drive will cost
    >$1080, but I can buy a Maxtor external drive for under $200. Is the
    >tape drive actually more reliable and faster than a separate hard drive?
    >Which type of backup do you use?


    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BRZ/is_6_24/ai_n6145651

    --
    "You can't rush the kind of cool *we* are."
    --Erekosë, Evil Abuse Minion #5
     
    Mara, Mar 26, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Collins <leethjATadelphiaDOTnet> wrote:

    > I would have thought that backing up the hard drive to an external hard
    > drive would be the best way to go. However my computer tech insist on me
    > buying a tape drive from him to back up to. The tape drive will cost
    > $1080, but I can buy a Maxtor external drive for under $200. Is the
    > tape drive actually more reliable and faster than a separate hard drive?
    > Which type of backup do you use?


    Well, IMHO, it's time to get rid of that computer tech.
    Personally, I back up my data on CD-R or DVD-R.
    --
    The Old Sourdough
    In the future, everyone will speak one language, but no one will speak it
    well. - George Carlin
     
    The Old Sourdough, Mar 26, 2006
    #3
  4. Collins

    Toolman Tim Guest

    In news:p,
    Collins spewed forth:
    > I would have thought that backing up the hard drive to an external
    > hard drive would be the best way to go. However my computer tech
    > insist on me buying a tape drive from him to back up to. The tape
    > drive will cost $1080, but I can buy a Maxtor external drive for
    > under $200. Is the tape drive actually more reliable and faster than
    > a separate hard drive? Which type of backup do you use?


    Our company uses tape. Why? Rotation schedule and archives. When you fill up
    the hard drive, do you intend to toss it on a shelf and buy a new drive? I
    have 7 years of archives on tape. I can have any file reloaded in minutes. I
    have a rotation schedule that keeps a permanent copy of all month-end and
    year-end business. To keep that information archived on hard drives would
    have cost thousands instead of hundreds of dollars. Tape is cheap. $15 gives
    me 80Gb of data in storage.

    --
    My wife and I divorced over religious differences. She thought she was
    God and I didn't.
     
    Toolman Tim, Mar 26, 2006
    #4
  5. Mara wrote:
    > On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 21:58:17 -0500, Collins <leethjATadelphiaDOTnet> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I would have thought that backing up the hard drive to an external hard
    >>drive would be the best way to go. However my computer tech insist on me
    >>buying a tape drive from him to back up to. The tape drive will cost
    >>$1080, but I can buy a Maxtor external drive for under $200. Is the
    >>tape drive actually more reliable and faster than a separate hard drive?
    >>Which type of backup do you use?

    >
    >
    > http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BRZ/is_6_24/ai_n6145651


    Good article, but the prices are outdated. Instead of $1,500 for a TB of
    hard drive, it's now a third of that.
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=, Mar 26, 2006
    #5
  6. Collins

    Mara Guest

    On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 23:29:54 -0500, Rôgêr <> wrote:

    >Mara wrote:
    >> On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 21:58:17 -0500, Collins <leethjATadelphiaDOTnet> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>I would have thought that backing up the hard drive to an external hard
    >>>drive would be the best way to go. However my computer tech insist on me
    >>>buying a tape drive from him to back up to. The tape drive will cost
    >>>$1080, but I can buy a Maxtor external drive for under $200. Is the
    >>>tape drive actually more reliable and faster than a separate hard drive?
    >>>Which type of backup do you use?

    >>
    >>
    >> http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BRZ/is_6_24/ai_n6145651

    >
    >Good article, but the prices are outdated. Instead of $1,500 for a TB of
    >hard drive, it's now a third of that.


    I know. I mainly posted it so the OP could read about the differences. Lots of
    prices have come down - the first Linksys 4-port I bought was $70. They're less
    than $50 now. Just bought a decent 52x32x52 cd burner for a client for a
    whopping $25.99. (It's OEM though.)

    What I *wish* would get cheaper is PC100/133 SDRAM. I have a use for that. I
    don't see it happening, though.

    --
    "You can't rush the kind of cool *we* are."
    --Erekosë, Evil Abuse Minion #5
     
    Mara, Mar 26, 2006
    #6
  7. Mara wrote:
    > On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 23:29:54 -0500, Rôgêr <> wrote:
    >>Good article, but the prices are outdated. Instead of $1,500 for a TB of
    >>hard drive, it's now a third of that.

    >
    >
    > I know. I mainly posted it so the OP could read about the differences. Lots of
    > prices have come down - the first Linksys 4-port I bought was $70. They're less
    > than $50 now. Just bought a decent 52x32x52 cd burner for a client for a
    > whopping $25.99. (It's OEM though.)
    >
    > What I *wish* would get cheaper is PC100/133 SDRAM. I have a use for that. I
    > don't see it happening, though.


    Yep, PC100/133 is likely to only go up as it's becoming a thing of the
    past, but many machines being retired still will have them for
    salvaging. But even new, it's still not all that expensive. How much do
    you need?
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=, Mar 26, 2006
    #7
  8. Collins

    GHalleck Guest

    Toolman Tim wrote:
    > In news:p,
    > Collins spewed forth:
    >
    >>I would have thought that backing up the hard drive to an external
    >>hard drive would be the best way to go. However my computer tech
    >>insist on me buying a tape drive from him to back up to. The tape
    >>drive will cost $1080, but I can buy a Maxtor external drive for
    >>under $200. Is the tape drive actually more reliable and faster than
    >>a separate hard drive? Which type of backup do you use?

    >
    >
    > Our company uses tape. Why? Rotation schedule and archives. When you fill up
    > the hard drive, do you intend to toss it on a shelf and buy a new drive? I
    > have 7 years of archives on tape. I can have any file reloaded in minutes. I
    > have a rotation schedule that keeps a permanent copy of all month-end and
    > year-end business. To keep that information archived on hard drives would
    > have cost thousands instead of hundreds of dollars. Tape is cheap. $15 gives
    > me 80Gb of data in storage.
    >


    Checked the magnetic coercivity lately of some of the older
    archived tapes. For them, it might be time to transfer them
    to newer and/or different media, like DVD+R.
     
    GHalleck, Mar 26, 2006
    #8
  9. Collins

    Dan Evans Guest

    "Collins" <leethjATadelphiaDOTnet> wrote in message
    news:p...
    >I would have thought that backing up the hard drive to an external hard
    >drive would be the best way to go. However my computer tech insist on me
    >buying a tape drive from him to back up to. The tape drive will cost
    >$1080, but I can buy a Maxtor external drive for under $200. Is the tape
    >drive actually more reliable and faster than a separate hard drive? Which
    >type of backup do you use?


    When a tape is full, another 200gig of space is 26 euros, and there are 10
    tapes in use. Daily incremental backups, plus 2 weekly complete backups, one
    for storage off site and one on site. Weekly backup sets are 3 tapes in
    rotation.

    So, 10x26euros is 260 euros, plus the drive (HP LTO Ultrium) 1240 euros,
    1500 in total for 4 terrabytes of storage.

    Add to that, failed media cost 26 euros to replace per 200gig (or 37 for
    400gig if you choose the larger capacity), plus tape doesn't break if you
    drop it and takes up less space than a packet of fags to store.

    CD/DVD as a backup option isn't really viable in a medium/large business
    environment unless you want someone sat changing discs all day.

    Dan







    .................................................................
    Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
    >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<

    -=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
     
    Dan Evans, Mar 26, 2006
    #9
  10. Collins

    jameswalton Guest

    "Collins" <leethjATadelphiaDOTnet> wrote in message
    news:p...
    >I would have thought that backing up the hard drive to an external hard
    >drive would be the best way to go. However my computer tech insist on me
    >buying a tape drive from him to back up to. The tape drive will cost
    >$1080, but I can buy a Maxtor external drive for under $200. Is the tape
    >drive actually more reliable and faster than a separate hard drive? Which
    >type of backup do you use?
     
    jameswalton, Mar 26, 2006
    #10
  11. Today Collins commented courteously on the subject at hand

    > I would have thought that backing up the hard drive to an
    > external hard drive would be the best way to go. However my
    > computer tech insist on me buying a tape drive from him to
    > back up to. The tape drive will cost $1080, but I can buy
    > a Maxtor external drive for under $200. Is the tape drive
    > actually more reliable and faster than a separate hard
    > drive? Which type of backup do you use?
    >

    $1,080? Excuse me for maybe being blunt, but doesn't that sound
    like a lot for tape? But, to answer your question, how long in
    real time would it take to backup your system(s) in their
    entirety for either tape or external and what are the relative
    costs?

    External HDs are finite in size. You can extend that by buying 2
    and switching between them so that you always have multiple
    months of backups. This is a very cost-effective, fast, easy
    solution unless your data needs are simply huge.

    --
    ATM, aka Jerry

    "Whether You Think You CAN Or CAN'T, You're Right." – Henry Ford
     
    All Things Mopar, Mar 26, 2006
    #11
  12. Today Toolman Tim commented courteously on the subject at
    hand

    > In news:p,
    > Collins spewed forth:
    >> I would have thought that backing up the hard drive to an
    >> external hard drive would be the best way to go. However
    >> my computer tech insist on me buying a tape drive from
    >> him to back up to. The tape drive will cost $1080, but I
    >> can buy a Maxtor external drive for under $200. Is the
    >> tape drive actually more reliable and faster than a
    >> separate hard drive? Which type of backup do you use?

    >
    > Our company uses tape. Why? Rotation schedule and archives.
    > When you fill up the hard drive, do you intend to toss it
    > on a shelf and buy a new drive? I have 7 years of archives
    > on tape. I can have any file reloaded in minutes. I have a
    > rotation schedule that keeps a permanent copy of all
    > month-end and year-end business. To keep that information
    > archived on hard drives would have cost thousands instead
    > of hundreds of dollars. Tape is cheap. $15 gives me 80Gb of
    > data in storage.


    A company and a personal PC(s) situation is quite different.
    On two personal PCs, mine and my wife's, the /total/ amount of
    data including the Windoze partitions to be backed up is under
    250 gig, so it easily fits on an inexpensive external. I have
    two "off brand" Hammer drives that I rotate to/from our bank
    safety deposit box for added theft and fire protection. I
    haven't been doing this nearly long enough to know how
    reliable the Hammer is but with two, I won't ever be more than
    a month out-of-date if I stick with my plan of approximately
    monthly full-backups.

    Later, I may go to a modified version of my current plan and
    do incremental backups which would greatly extend the "life"
    of any finite size external. With prices/gig dropping like a
    rock and transfer rates/MTBF rates getting better, an external
    HD solution rather than tape seemed optimal for my situation.
    Yours or the OPs may be different...

    --
    ATM, aka Jerry

    "Whether You Think You CAN Or CAN'T, You're Right." – Henry
    Ford
     
    All Things Mopar, Mar 26, 2006
    #12
  13. Collins

    Rob K Guest

    Mara wrote:

    <snip>
    >
    > What I *wish* would get cheaper is PC100/133 SDRAM. I have a use for that. I
    > don't see it happening, though.


    There's a KVR133X64C3/256 right in front of me,
    and if you need more, maybe I can help.

    Remember the class IV grenade ? The offer is still open...

    ;)

    --
    My E-mail address in ROT-13
    vf ab ybatre gurer, abg rira ng ubgznvy
     
    Rob K, Mar 26, 2006
    #13
  14. Collins

    Leythos Guest

    In article <>, Collins
    <leethjATadelphiaDOTnet> says...
    > I would have thought that backing up the hard drive to an external hard
    > drive would be the best way to go. However my computer tech insist on me
    > buying a tape drive from him to back up to. The tape drive will cost
    > $1080, but I can buy a Maxtor external drive for under $200. Is the
    > tape drive actually more reliable and faster than a separate hard drive?
    > Which type of backup do you use?


    Tape drives permit you to have MULTIPLE TAPES, and to take tapes off-
    site while others are still used for backups.

    Tapes are small and don't wear out while not being used.

    Tapes can be replaced for about %15 each of DDS type tapes, more for
    other types.

    Portable disk drives don't do any good unless you back up to them and
    then take it off site while you backup to another drive.

    Installation of a USB/Firewire drive can cause a fault in the system
    (seen it happen many times).

    In order to get the protection that a tape solution would offer, you
    would need to purchase 6 external drives, and that would be the same as
    a standard 6 tape backup - so the cost is very close.

    Your server should have two methods for backup:

    1) Backup to dedicated backup disk - this would be a XXX GB disk that is
    only used to store online backups for quick recovery.

    2) Backup to tape, the OS/Data partitions, not the backup disk, so that
    you can take the backup off-site.

    --


    remove 999 in order to email me
     
    Leythos, Mar 26, 2006
    #14
  15. Collins

    Meat Plow Guest

    On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 21:58:17 -0500, Collins wrote:

    > I would have thought that backing up the hard drive to an external hard
    > drive would be the best way to go. However my computer tech insist on me
    > buying a tape drive from him to back up to. The tape drive will cost
    > $1080, but I can buy a Maxtor external drive for under $200. Is the
    > tape drive actually more reliable and faster than a separate hard drive?
    > Which type of backup do you use?


    Buy an internal hard drive and removable bay so you can take the fucker
    off site.

    --

    Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004
     
    Meat Plow, Mar 26, 2006
    #15
  16. Collins

    Mara Guest

    On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 01:14:10 -0500, Rôgêr <> wrote:

    <snip>
    >Yep, PC100/133 is likely to only go up as it's becoming a thing of the
    >past, but many machines being retired still will have them for
    >salvaging. But even new, it's still not all that expensive. How much do
    >you need?


    Currently I need 4-512mg sticks of PC133. But I'll probably need more in the
    future - most of the machines around here are dinosaurs. The one I'm working on
    now is an old Compaq running XP Home and it's only got 1 stick of PC100 in it,
    128MB. I don't know if it will take PC133 as it has PC100 installed and I can't
    find any mainboard markings to tell me, and don't have anything here but the
    box, so it probably need a couple sticks of 512 PC100, but I need the PC133
    anyway.

    The Compaq job is for a friend of mine and I'd really like to get it running
    better - I've tweaked it all I can, but it just doesn't have enough ram to run
    really well, and it shows.

    It's so old it has an AMD slot chip. <g>

    --
    "You can't rush the kind of cool *we* are."
    --Erekosë, Evil Abuse Minion #5
     
    Mara, Mar 26, 2006
    #16
  17. Collins

    Mara Guest

    On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 15:02:02 +0200, Rob K <> wrote:

    >Mara wrote:
    >
    ><snip>
    >>
    >> What I *wish* would get cheaper is PC100/133 SDRAM. I have a use for that. I
    >> don't see it happening, though.

    >
    >There's a KVR133X64C3/256 right in front of me,
    >and if you need more, maybe I can help.
    >
    >Remember the class IV grenade ? The offer is still open...
    >
    >;)


    You know my e-mail address. ;)


    --
    "You can't rush the kind of cool *we* are."
    --Erekosë, Evil Abuse Minion #5
     
    Mara, Mar 26, 2006
    #17
  18. Collins

    Toolman Tim Guest

    In news:,
    Mara spewed forth:
    > On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 01:14:10 -0500, Rôgêr <> wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    >> Yep, PC100/133 is likely to only go up as it's becoming a thing of
    >> the past, but many machines being retired still will have them for
    >> salvaging. But even new, it's still not all that expensive. How much
    >> do you need?

    >
    > Currently I need 4-512mg sticks of PC133. But I'll probably need more
    > in the future - most of the machines around here are dinosaurs. The
    > one I'm working on now is an old Compaq running XP Home and it's only
    > got 1 stick of PC100 in it, 128MB. I don't know if it will take PC133
    > as it has PC100 installed and I can't find any mainboard markings to
    > tell me,


    Most likely, yes. It will merely revert to running at the speed of the
    slowest RAM. I've done that with some Compaqs in the past, and it worked
    fine.

    > and don't have anything here but the box, so it probably
    > need a couple sticks of 512 PC100, but I need the PC133 anyway.


    Now, THAT is less likely to work than the PC133. If the system is as old as
    you say it is, the BIOS may not know how to read memory configurations
    larger than 128 or 256 per slot. Sounds like you might want to look up that
    system at www.crucial.com and see what they say.

    > The Compaq job is for a friend of mine and I'd really like to get it
    > running better - I've tweaked it all I can, but it just doesn't have
    > enough ram to run really well, and it shows.
    >
    > It's so old it has an AMD slot chip. <g>


    I have a dozen or so PCs sitting here with Socket 7 CPUs - P150 thru AMD
    K6II-500. I'm trying to find someone to come pick them up and get them out
    of my living room <g>

    --
    My wife and I divorced over religious differences. She thought she was
    God and I didn't.
     
    Toolman Tim, Mar 26, 2006
    #18
  19. Collins

    someone Guest

    "Toolman Tim" <> wrote in message
    news:8jBVf.41$...
    > In news:,
    > Mara spewed forth:
    >> On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 01:14:10 -0500, Rôgêr <> wrote:
    >>
    >> <snip>
    >>> Yep, PC100/133 is likely to only go up as it's becoming a thing of
    >>> the past, but many machines being retired still will have them for
    >>> salvaging. But even new, it's still not all that expensive. How much
    >>> do you need?

    >>
    >> Currently I need 4-512mg sticks of PC133. But I'll probably need more
    >> in the future - most of the machines around here are dinosaurs. The
    >> one I'm working on now is an old Compaq running XP Home and it's only
    >> got 1 stick of PC100 in it, 128MB. I don't know if it will take PC133
    >> as it has PC100 installed and I can't find any mainboard markings to
    >> tell me,

    >
    > Most likely, yes. It will merely revert to running at the speed of the
    > slowest RAM. I've done that with some Compaqs in the past, and it worked
    > fine.
    >
    >> and don't have anything here but the box, so it probably
    >> need a couple sticks of 512 PC100, but I need the PC133 anyway.

    >
    > Now, THAT is less likely to work than the PC133. If the system is as old
    > as you say it is, the BIOS may not know how to read memory configurations
    > larger than 128 or 256 per slot. Sounds like you might want to look up
    > that system at www.crucial.com and see what they say.
    >
    >> The Compaq job is for a friend of mine and I'd really like to get it
    >> running better - I've tweaked it all I can, but it just doesn't have
    >> enough ram to run really well, and it shows.
    >>
    >> It's so old it has an AMD slot chip. <g>

    >
    > I have a dozen or so PCs sitting here with Socket 7 CPUs - P150 thru AMD
    > K6II-500. I'm trying to find someone to come pick them up and get them out
    > of my living room <g>
    >

    JOKE;
    Put linux on them Tim. You`ll have a flock of penguins knocking on
    your door. <rather large smile>.
     
    someone, Mar 26, 2006
    #19
  20. Collins

    Toolman Tim Guest

    In news:NIBVf.14903$H%,
    someone spewed forth:
    > "Toolman Tim" <> wrote in message
    > news:8jBVf.41$...
    >> In news:,
    >> Mara spewed forth:
    >>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 01:14:10 -0500, Rôgêr <>
    >>> wrote: <snip>
    >>>> Yep, PC100/133 is likely to only go up as it's becoming a thing of
    >>>> the past, but many machines being retired still will have them for
    >>>> salvaging. But even new, it's still not all that expensive. How
    >>>> much do you need?
    >>>
    >>> Currently I need 4-512mg sticks of PC133. But I'll probably need
    >>> more in the future - most of the machines around here are
    >>> dinosaurs. The one I'm working on now is an old Compaq running XP
    >>> Home and it's only got 1 stick of PC100 in it, 128MB. I don't know
    >>> if it will take PC133 as it has PC100 installed and I can't find
    >>> any mainboard markings to tell me,

    >>
    >> Most likely, yes. It will merely revert to running at the speed of
    >> the slowest RAM. I've done that with some Compaqs in the past, and
    >> it worked fine.
    >>
    >>> and don't have anything here but the box, so it probably
    >>> need a couple sticks of 512 PC100, but I need the PC133 anyway.

    >>
    >> Now, THAT is less likely to work than the PC133. If the system is as
    >> old as you say it is, the BIOS may not know how to read memory
    >> configurations larger than 128 or 256 per slot. Sounds like you
    >> might want to look up that system at www.crucial.com and see what
    >> they say.
    >>> The Compaq job is for a friend of mine and I'd really like to get it
    >>> running better - I've tweaked it all I can, but it just doesn't have
    >>> enough ram to run really well, and it shows.
    >>>
    >>> It's so old it has an AMD slot chip. <g>

    >>
    >> I have a dozen or so PCs sitting here with Socket 7 CPUs - P150 thru
    >> AMD K6II-500. I'm trying to find someone to come pick them up and
    >> get them out of my living room <g>
    >>

    > JOKE;
    > Put linux on them Tim. You`ll have a flock of penguins knocking on
    > your door. <rather large smile>.


    LOL!!!

    Actually, all of them except one still have the original OEM versions of W95
    or W98 on them. But they're slow, small hard drives, nearly no memory, and
    two have dead power supplies (micro-ATX - uggh!).

    --
    My wife and I divorced over religious differences. She thought she was
    God and I didn't.
     
    Toolman Tim, Mar 26, 2006
    #20
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