Experts who aren't

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Apr 3, 2012.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    This guy (a sour dpreview blowhard) castigates someone on a comments
    thread regarding Canon's new astrophotography-aimed D60a. Problem
    with this guy is he is wrong. Hypering ("soaking" the film in a gas
    containing hydrogen) film had nothing to do with high ISO, it was to
    prevent film from LOSING speed over long exposures which is called
    reciprocity failure. Hypered film was often low ISO Tech Pan. Most
    astrophotographers avoided high ISO films because they didn't want the
    grain. There are other reasons why high ISO for astro work isn't a
    good idea.

    By Joseph S Wisniewski (6 hours ago)

    @michamedia, you're talking about a field you don't understand, at
    all. Astrophotographers have been pushing the limits of ISO for over a
    century. They have various techniques for "hypering" film, such as
    soaking it in different chemical baths, "baking" it to achieve
    different silver grain geometries, and gassing it in tanks of
    pressurized hydrogen nitrogen mixtures. There's "preflashing", to tip
    more grains to near activation potential, then "latensification", to
    trip grains that were exposed "almost enough".

    Where do you think the "back illuminated" sensors that are so popular
    now in small cameras came from? That's an astro technique, except they
    did it by hand, etching away sensors. There's also cooled sensors,
    with either big Peltier (solid state) coolers, refrigeration pumps, or
    liquid gas coolers.
     
    RichA, Apr 3, 2012
    #1
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  2. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article
    <>,
    RichA <> wrote:

    > This guy (a sour dpreview blowhard) castigates someone on a comments
    > thread regarding Canon's new astrophotography-aimed D60a. Problem
    > with this guy is he is wrong. Hypering ("soaking" the film in a gas
    > containing hydrogen) film had nothing to do with high ISO, it was to
    > prevent film from LOSING speed over long exposures which is called
    > reciprocity failure. Hypered film was often low ISO Tech Pan. Most
    > astrophotographers avoided high ISO films because they didn't want the
    > grain. There are other reasons why high ISO for astro work isn't a
    > good idea.
    >
    > By Joseph S Wisniewski (6 hours ago)


    joe is not a blowhard. he's very smart, although sometimes a bit
    abrasive in his responses.
     
    nospam, Apr 3, 2012
    #2
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  3. RichA

    Mr. Strat Guest

    In article
    <>,
    RichA <> wrote:

    > This guy (a sour dpreview blowhard) castigates someone on a comments
    > thread regarding Canon's new astrophotography-aimed D60a. Problem
    > with this guy is he is wrong. Hypering ("soaking" the film in a gas
    > containing hydrogen) film had nothing to do with high ISO, it was to
    > prevent film from LOSING speed over long exposures which is called
    > reciprocity failure. Hypered film was often low ISO Tech Pan. Most
    > astrophotographers avoided high ISO films because they didn't want the
    > grain. There are other reasons why high ISO for astro work isn't a
    > good idea.


    You're one to be talking about somebody who doesn't know shit.
     
    Mr. Strat, Apr 4, 2012
    #3
  4. RichA

    Martin Brown Guest

    On 04/04/2012 02:01, Mr. Strat wrote:
    > In article
    > <>,
    > RichA<> wrote:
    >
    >> This guy (a sour dpreview blowhard) castigates someone on a comments
    >> thread regarding Canon's new astrophotography-aimed D60a. Problem
    >> with this guy is he is wrong. Hypering ("soaking" the film in a gas
    >> containing hydrogen) film had nothing to do with high ISO, it was to
    >> prevent film from LOSING speed over long exposures which is called
    >> reciprocity failure. Hypered film was often low ISO Tech Pan. Most
    >> astrophotographers avoided high ISO films because they didn't want the
    >> grain. There are other reasons why high ISO for astro work isn't a
    >> good idea.

    >
    > You're one to be talking about somebody who doesn't know shit.


    For once he is actually right about the hypering films with gas being
    done to eliminate oxygen and prevent reciprocity failure on long
    exposures. The tradeoff is that hypered film has essentially zero shelf
    life so it has to be processed very soon afterwards or fog levels rise.

    The films treated this way were usually specialist Kodak astronomy
    emulsions like 103aE/F/G/O since it was pretty tedious to do.

    Cold cameras using a dry ice or LN2 coolant were also used to maximise
    quantum efficiency in film (which was never really very good).

    I honestly don't see how any consumer grade DSLR at room temperature can
    remotely compete with a dedicated cooled CCD astronomical camera for
    deep sky. And for short exposures on the planets and moon a dismantled
    webcam wins the price performance war hands down.

    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown
     
    Martin Brown, Apr 4, 2012
    #4
  5. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Apr 3, 5:26 pm, nospam <> wrote:
    > In article
    > <>,
    >
    > RichA <> wrote:
    > > This guy (a sour dpreview blowhard) castigates someone on a comments
    > > thread regarding Canon's new astrophotography-aimed D60a.  Problem
    > > with this guy is he is wrong.  Hypering ("soaking" the film in a gas
    > > containing hydrogen) film had nothing to do with high ISO, it was to
    > > prevent film from LOSING speed over long exposures which is called
    > > reciprocity failure.  Hypered film was often low ISO Tech Pan.  Most
    > > astrophotographers avoided high ISO films because they didn't want the
    > > grain.  There are other reasons why high ISO for astro work isn't a
    > > good idea.

    >
    > > By Joseph S Wisniewski (6 hours ago)

    >
    > joe is not a blowhard. he's very smart, although sometimes a bit
    > abrasive in his responses.


    A bit?
     
    RichA, Apr 4, 2012
    #5
  6. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Apr 4, 5:20 am, Martin Brown <|||>
    wrote:
    > On 04/04/2012 02:01, Mr. Strat wrote:
    >
    > > In article
    > > <>,
    > > RichA<>  wrote:

    >
    > >> This guy (a sour dpreview blowhard) castigates someone on a comments
    > >> thread regarding Canon's new astrophotography-aimed D60a.  Problem
    > >> with this guy is he is wrong.  Hypering ("soaking" the film in a gas
    > >> containing hydrogen) film had nothing to do with high ISO, it was to
    > >> prevent film from LOSING speed over long exposures which is called
    > >> reciprocity failure.  Hypered film was often low ISO Tech Pan.  Most
    > >> astrophotographers avoided high ISO films because they didn't want the
    > >> grain.  There are other reasons why high ISO for astro work isn't a
    > >> good idea.

    >
    > > You're one to be talking about somebody who doesn't know shit.

    >
    > For once he is actually right about the hypering films with gas being
    > done to eliminate oxygen and prevent reciprocity failure on long
    > exposures. The tradeoff is that hypered film has essentially zero shelf
    > life so it has to be processed very soon afterwards or fog levels rise.
    >
    > The films treated this way were usually specialist Kodak astronomy
    > emulsions like 103aE/F/G/O since it was pretty tedious to do.
    >
    > Cold cameras using a dry ice or LN2 coolant were also used to maximise
    > quantum efficiency in film (which was never really very good).
    >
    > I honestly don't see how any consumer grade DSLR at room temperature can
    > remotely compete with a dedicated cooled CCD astronomical camera for
    > deep sky. And for short exposures on the planets and moon a dismantled
    > webcam wins the price performance war hands down.
    >
    > --
    > Regards,
    > Martin Brown


    They can't compete, but they are cheap, even at $1500 relative to what
    an APS or FF cooled CCD would cost.
     
    RichA, Apr 4, 2012
    #6
  7. RichA

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 18:01:06 -0700, "Mr. Strat" <>
    wrote:
    : In article
    : <>,
    : RichA <> wrote:
    :
    : > This guy (a sour dpreview blowhard) castigates someone on a comments
    : > thread regarding Canon's new astrophotography-aimed D60a. Problem
    : > with this guy is he is wrong. Hypering ("soaking" the film in a gas
    : > containing hydrogen) film had nothing to do with high ISO, it was to
    : > prevent film from LOSING speed over long exposures which is called
    : > reciprocity failure. Hypered film was often low ISO Tech Pan. Most
    : > astrophotographers avoided high ISO films because they didn't want the
    : > grain. There are other reasons why high ISO for astro work isn't a
    : > good idea.
    :
    : You're one to be talking about somebody who doesn't know shit.

    I dunno. To my untrained eye, Rich seems more believable whan he talks about
    astronomy and astrophotography. It may be that, like Fortunato in "A Cask of
    Amontillado", Rich has one area of genuine expertise. ;^)

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Apr 6, 2012
    #7
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