Exam prep for 70-305?

Discussion in 'MCSD' started by Tommy Watt, Dec 19, 2003.

  1. Tommy Watt

    Tommy Watt Guest

    I just passed 70-306! I used a company bootcamp, MS Press books,
    MeasureUps and Transcenders. I can say that MeasureUp's suck because
    they didnt even come close to real exam and I failed 1st time. I used
    Transcender 2nd time and passed exam but only barely. It was more
    like real exam, but still very different.

    What do people recommend for 70-305? Is Transcender still best or is
    something else better?

    Thanks,

    Tom
     
    Tommy Watt, Dec 19, 2003
    #1
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  2. Tommy Watt

    NW Guest

    Tom,

    I just passed 70-306 as well. I have been asking the
    same question you are asking and here is what I have been
    told:

    There is book by Mike Gunderloy that has been
    recommended. Title: MCAD/MCSD Training Guide (70-305):
    Developing and Implementing Web Applications with Visual
    Basic.NET and Visual Studio.NET.

    I just bought it on amazon for $31.00. I haven't
    received it yet, but it looks very promising.

    I have read through the ASP.NET step by step and was not
    impressed. It's a good book if you know nothing about
    Web Apps, but I found it lacking in all areas.

    Hope this helps. I am going to use this book (Mike
    Gunderloy) and maybe transcender. I code web apps for a
    living so hopefully I will be familar with most of the
    topics.

    NW
    >-----Original Message-----
    >I just passed 70-306! I used a company bootcamp, MS

    Press books,
    >MeasureUps and Transcenders. I can say that MeasureUp's

    suck because
    >they didnt even come close to real exam and I failed 1st

    time. I used
    >Transcender 2nd time and passed exam but only barely.

    It was more
    >like real exam, but still very different.
    >
    >What do people recommend for 70-305? Is Transcender

    still best or is
    >something else better?
    >
    >Thanks,
    >
    >Tom
    >.
    >
     
    NW, Dec 19, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Tommy Watt

    Kline Sphere Guest

    > I can say that MeasureUp's suck because
    >they didnt even come close to real exam and I failed 1st time.


    Oh no! What, you mean they did not give you the real answers to the
    actual exam questions, maybe it's you that suck????
     
    Kline Sphere, Dec 20, 2003
    #3
  4. Tommy Watt

    Tommy Watt Guest

    The thing is I already understand ASP.NET. All I'm asking is which is
    the best exam prep software.

    Thanks,

    Tom

    "NW" <> wrote in message news:<021101c3c682$592f8340$>...
    > Tom,
    >
    > I just passed 70-306 as well. I have been asking the
    > same question you are asking and here is what I have been
    > told:
    >
    > There is book by Mike Gunderloy that has been
    > recommended. Title: MCAD/MCSD Training Guide (70-305):
    > Developing and Implementing Web Applications with Visual
    > Basic.NET and Visual Studio.NET.
    >
    > I just bought it on amazon for $31.00. I haven't
    > received it yet, but it looks very promising.
    >
    > I have read through the ASP.NET step by step and was not
    > impressed. It's a good book if you know nothing about
    > Web Apps, but I found it lacking in all areas.
    >
    > Hope this helps. I am going to use this book (Mike
    > Gunderloy) and maybe transcender. I code web apps for a
    > living so hopefully I will be familar with most of the
    > topics.
    >
    > NW
    > >-----Original Message-----
    > >I just passed 70-306! I used a company bootcamp, MS

    > Press books,
    > >MeasureUps and Transcenders. I can say that MeasureUp's

    > suck because
    > >they didnt even come close to real exam and I failed 1st

    > time. I used
    > >Transcender 2nd time and passed exam but only barely.

    > It was more
    > >like real exam, but still very different.
    > >
    > >What do people recommend for 70-305? Is Transcender

    > still best or is
    > >something else better?
    > >
    > >Thanks,
    > >
    > >Tom
    > >.
    > >
     
    Tommy Watt, Dec 20, 2003
    #4
  5. Tommy Watt

    Tommy Watt Guest

    WTF?

    If you read my post you will see that I went through a bootcamp, and I
    read MS Press books. The only thing I didn't say is yes I understood
    them and can program in ASP.NET already.

    The community and even Microsoft themselves recommends the use of
    practice exams. I was only asking which were best. I do not wish to
    cheat. And I do feel that I have learned ASP.NET sufficiently to
    program for a company. But the problem is there is a lot more
    information to memorize then really neccasary, and the practice exams
    will assist you in knowing which information you need to know to pass
    the exam.

    Thanks,

    Tom

    Kline Sphere <.> wrote in message news:<>...
    > > I can say that MeasureUp's suck because
    > >they didnt even come close to real exam and I failed 1st time.

    >
    > Oh no! What, you mean they did not give you the real answers to the
    > actual exam questions, maybe it's you that suck????
     
    Tommy Watt, Dec 20, 2003
    #5
  6. Tommy Watt

    Kline Sphere Guest

    But the exam format is sooooo simple. People 'buy' (or steal) this
    'practice' exams because they seem to expect them to have the actual
    answers.

    When you stated "I can say that MeasureUp's suck because
    they didnt even come close to real exam and I failed 1st time" what
    did you actual mean then ? The practice exams did not have enough
    option buttons for you to click!


    On 20 Dec 2003 11:46:26 -0800, (Tommy Watt)
    wrote:

    >WTF?
    >
    >If you read my post you will see that I went through a bootcamp, and I
    >read MS Press books. The only thing I didn't say is yes I understood
    >them and can program in ASP.NET already.
    >
    >The community and even Microsoft themselves recommends the use of
    >practice exams. I was only asking which were best. I do not wish to
    >cheat. And I do feel that I have learned ASP.NET sufficiently to
    >program for a company. But the problem is there is a lot more
    >information to memorize then really neccasary, and the practice exams
    >will assist you in knowing which information you need to know to pass
    >the exam.
    >
    >Thanks,
    >
    >Tom
    >
    >Kline Sphere <.> wrote in message news:<>...
    >> > I can say that MeasureUp's suck because
    >> >they didnt even come close to real exam and I failed 1st time.

    >>
    >> Oh no! What, you mean they did not give you the real answers to the
    >> actual exam questions, maybe it's you that suck????
     
    Kline Sphere, Dec 20, 2003
    #6
  7. Tommy Watt

    NW Guest

    Ok then...

    Well if you passed 70-306, you already know the format.
    So your real question must be which practice exam has the
    most questions excatly the same as the real exam. I
    can't answer that as I have not taken the exam. Also, if
    you already know how to program ASP.NET, why do you need
    practice exams??? The areas you are expected to know are
    clearly covered on MS.com. Study those, now them, and
    you will pass.

    NW
    >-----Original Message-----
    >The thing is I already understand ASP.NET. All I'm

    asking is which is
    >the best exam prep software.
    >
    >Thanks,
    >
    >Tom
    >
    >"NW" <> wrote in

    message news:<021101c3c682$592f8340$>...
    >> Tom,
    >>
    >> I just passed 70-306 as well. I have been asking the
    >> same question you are asking and here is what I have

    been
    >> told:
    >>
    >> There is book by Mike Gunderloy that has been
    >> recommended. Title: MCAD/MCSD Training Guide (70-

    305):
    >> Developing and Implementing Web Applications with

    Visual
    >> Basic.NET and Visual Studio.NET.
    >>
    >> I just bought it on amazon for $31.00. I haven't
    >> received it yet, but it looks very promising.
    >>
    >> I have read through the ASP.NET step by step and was

    not
    >> impressed. It's a good book if you know nothing about
    >> Web Apps, but I found it lacking in all areas.
    >>
    >> Hope this helps. I am going to use this book (Mike
    >> Gunderloy) and maybe transcender. I code web apps for

    a
    >> living so hopefully I will be familar with most of the
    >> topics.
    >>
    >> NW
    >> >-----Original Message-----
    >> >I just passed 70-306! I used a company bootcamp, MS

    >> Press books,
    >> >MeasureUps and Transcenders. I can say that

    MeasureUp's
    >> suck because
    >> >they didnt even come close to real exam and I failed

    1st
    >> time. I used
    >> >Transcender 2nd time and passed exam but only

    barely.
    >> It was more
    >> >like real exam, but still very different.
    >> >
    >> >What do people recommend for 70-305? Is Transcender

    >> still best or is
    >> >something else better?
    >> >
    >> >Thanks,
    >> >
    >> >Tom
    >> >.
    >> >

    >.
    >
     
    NW, Dec 21, 2003
    #7
  8. Tommy Watt

    ¢harlie Guest

    Hi Tom,

    I'll bet you are sorry that you asked the question here! 8^)

    Some of these folks have an exremely parochial view of some matters
    so you will only get a ration on grief from them. We all know that
    just passing the exams does not mean much as far as job performance but
    they do force us to focus on learning the material

    In answer to you question from what I gather:

    TestKing stuff has the answers that are the closest to the exams
    Transenders are expensive and questions are more difficult than on test, not
    worth the money
    MeasureUp so don't help in preparation at all
    Cert21 does not seem any good. Poor product and customer support.
    ExamCram seems to be a possible middle ground that helps enough without
    giving away the whole show

    I haven't used any of these for my MCSD so far because I am still in
    learning
    mode. Once I feel that I know enough then perhaps I try one but if I did
    that
    now it would ruin my efforts to acquire the knowledge. I have three machines
    setup
    and am working my way through a book by Brian Slier and Jeff Spotts,
    Special Edition Using Microsoft Visual Basic .NET by Que publishing while
    reading
    the online help and MSDN articles extensively.

    I hope that this helps.

    ¢harlie

    "NW" <> wrote in message
    news:057b01c3c798$5e0d9250$...
    > Ok then...
    >
    > Well if you passed 70-306, you already know the format.
    > So your real question must be which practice exam has the
    > most questions excatly the same as the real exam. I
    > can't answer that as I have not taken the exam. Also, if
    > you already know how to program ASP.NET, why do you need
    > practice exams??? The areas you are expected to know are
    > clearly covered on MS.com. Study those, now them, and
    > you will pass.
    >
    > NW
    > >-----Original Message-----
    > >The thing is I already understand ASP.NET. All I'm

    > asking is which is
    > >the best exam prep software.
    > >
    > >Thanks,
    > >
    > >Tom
    > >
    > >"NW" <> wrote in

    > message news:<021101c3c682$592f8340$>...
    > >> Tom,
    > >>
    > >> I just passed 70-306 as well. I have been asking the
    > >> same question you are asking and here is what I have

    > been
    > >> told:
    > >>
    > >> There is book by Mike Gunderloy that has been
    > >> recommended. Title: MCAD/MCSD Training Guide (70-

    > 305):
    > >> Developing and Implementing Web Applications with

    > Visual
    > >> Basic.NET and Visual Studio.NET.
    > >>
    > >> I just bought it on amazon for $31.00. I haven't
    > >> received it yet, but it looks very promising.
    > >>
    > >> I have read through the ASP.NET step by step and was

    > not
    > >> impressed. It's a good book if you know nothing about
    > >> Web Apps, but I found it lacking in all areas.
    > >>
    > >> Hope this helps. I am going to use this book (Mike
    > >> Gunderloy) and maybe transcender. I code web apps for

    > a
    > >> living so hopefully I will be familar with most of the
    > >> topics.
    > >>
    > >> NW
    > >> >-----Original Message-----
    > >> >I just passed 70-306! I used a company bootcamp, MS
    > >> Press books,
    > >> >MeasureUps and Transcenders. I can say that

    > MeasureUp's
    > >> suck because
    > >> >they didnt even come close to real exam and I failed

    > 1st
    > >> time. I used
    > >> >Transcender 2nd time and passed exam but only

    > barely.
    > >> It was more
    > >> >like real exam, but still very different.
    > >> >
    > >> >What do people recommend for 70-305? Is Transcender
    > >> still best or is
    > >> >something else better?
    > >> >
    > >> >Thanks,
    > >> >
    > >> >Tom
    > >> >.
    > >> >

    > >.
    > >
     
    ¢harlie, Dec 21, 2003
    #8
  9. Tommy Watt

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >TestKing stuff has the answers that are the closest to the exams
    >Transenders are expensive and questions are more difficult than on test, not
    >worth the money


    So what you'll saying is buy testking, transcender or whatever and
    you'll pass the exams? Ridiculous.

    What this says to me is that the only microsoft certified people worth
    anything are those who pass the beta exams, i.e. before testking,
    transcender have time peddle their 'products'.

    The problem I see is the format of the exams. Being able to answer a
    question without understanding it, let alone being able to describe
    and explain how you come to that answer, is mad. Hence why few
    companies take any notice of microsoft certs.

    This a great pity to many people take these certs who not only
    genuinely understand microsoft tools and products, but are also good
    software engineers.
     
    Kline Sphere, Dec 21, 2003
    #9
  10. Tommy Watt

    Tommy Watt Guest

    Yeah pretty much. I don't feel I'm cheating or doing anything outside
    of what is recommended to me. I just want to use the best test prep
    software, that's all I'm asking. I know a lot of things ASP.NET but
    the point of the exam software is not so much what the format will be
    as I know that already. But, that it covers the material that you are
    being tested on. No, it does not need to be the same questions and
    answers. But the same material.

    Thanks,

    Tom

    "¢harlie" <> wrote in message news:<nohFb.606961$HS4.4442431@attbi_s01>...
    > Hi Tom,
    >
    > I'll bet you are sorry that you asked the question here! 8^)
    >
    > Some of these folks have an exremely parochial view of some matters
    > so you will only get a ration on grief from them. We all know that
    > just passing the exams does not mean much as far as job performance but
    > they do force us to focus on learning the material
    >
    > In answer to you question from what I gather:
    >
    > TestKing stuff has the answers that are the closest to the exams
    > Transenders are expensive and questions are more difficult than on test, not
    > worth the money
    > MeasureUp so don't help in preparation at all
    > Cert21 does not seem any good. Poor product and customer support.
    > ExamCram seems to be a possible middle ground that helps enough without
    > giving away the whole show
    >
    > I haven't used any of these for my MCSD so far because I am still in
    > learning
    > mode. Once I feel that I know enough then perhaps I try one but if I did
    > that
    > now it would ruin my efforts to acquire the knowledge. I have three machines
    > setup
    > and am working my way through a book by Brian Slier and Jeff Spotts,
    > Special Edition Using Microsoft Visual Basic .NET by Que publishing while
    > reading
    > the online help and MSDN articles extensively.
    >
    > I hope that this helps.
    >
    > ¢harlie
    >
    > "NW" <> wrote in message
    > news:057b01c3c798$5e0d9250$...
    > > Ok then...
    > >
    > > Well if you passed 70-306, you already know the format.
    > > So your real question must be which practice exam has the
    > > most questions excatly the same as the real exam. I
    > > can't answer that as I have not taken the exam. Also, if
    > > you already know how to program ASP.NET, why do you need
    > > practice exams??? The areas you are expected to know are
    > > clearly covered on MS.com. Study those, now them, and
    > > you will pass.
    > >
    > > NW
    > > >-----Original Message-----
    > > >The thing is I already understand ASP.NET. All I'm

    > asking is which is
    > > >the best exam prep software.
    > > >
    > > >Thanks,
    > > >
    > > >Tom
    > > >
    > > >"NW" <> wrote in

    > message news:<021101c3c682$592f8340$>...
    > > >> Tom,
    > > >>
    > > >> I just passed 70-306 as well. I have been asking the
    > > >> same question you are asking and here is what I have

    > been
    > > >> told:
    > > >>
    > > >> There is book by Mike Gunderloy that has been
    > > >> recommended. Title: MCAD/MCSD Training Guide (70-

    > 305):
    > > >> Developing and Implementing Web Applications with

    > Visual
    > > >> Basic.NET and Visual Studio.NET.
    > > >>
    > > >> I just bought it on amazon for $31.00. I haven't
    > > >> received it yet, but it looks very promising.
    > > >>
    > > >> I have read through the ASP.NET step by step and was

    > not
    > > >> impressed. It's a good book if you know nothing about
    > > >> Web Apps, but I found it lacking in all areas.
    > > >>
    > > >> Hope this helps. I am going to use this book (Mike
    > > >> Gunderloy) and maybe transcender. I code web apps for

    > a
    > > >> living so hopefully I will be familar with most of the
    > > >> topics.
    > > >>
    > > >> NW
    > > >> >-----Original Message-----
    > > >> >I just passed 70-306! I used a company bootcamp, MS

    > Press books,
    > > >> >MeasureUps and Transcenders. I can say that

    > MeasureUp's
    > suck because
    > > >> >they didnt even come close to real exam and I failed

    > 1st
    > time. I used
    > > >> >Transcender 2nd time and passed exam but only

    > barely.
    > It was more
    > > >> >like real exam, but still very different.
    > > >> >
    > > >> >What do people recommend for 70-305? Is Transcender

    > still best or is
    > > >> >something else better?
    > > >> >
    > > >> >Thanks,
    > > >> >
    > > >> >Tom
    > > >> >.
    > > >> >
    > > >.
    > > >
     
    Tommy Watt, Dec 22, 2003
    #10
  11. Tommy Watt

    Tommy Watt Guest

    It's not about the format of the exam. Actually for features of the
    interface, MeasureUp has the best interface and options. But the exam
    prep should cover the same material. I don't think it should have the
    exact questions and answers by any means. It just should cover the
    same topics and key things to remember. There is a TON of stuff to
    memorize in these programming courses, and reading the book cover to
    cover isn't going to tell you which ones are going to be tested on.
    And you can't expect everyone to memorize the entire book.

    As I said before, exam prep tests are standard and recommended. I
    just want the ones that cover the material tested best. It looks like
    I got my answer already, and let's leave it at that.

    Thanks,

    Tom

    Kline Sphere <.> wrote in message news:<>...
    > But the exam format is sooooo simple. People 'buy' (or steal) this
    > 'practice' exams because they seem to expect them to have the actual
    > answers.
    >
    > When you stated "I can say that MeasureUp's suck because
    > they didnt even come close to real exam and I failed 1st time" what
    > did you actual mean then ? The practice exams did not have enough
    > option buttons for you to click!
    >
    >
    > On 20 Dec 2003 11:46:26 -0800, (Tommy Watt)
    > wrote:
    >
    > >WTF?
    > >
    > >If you read my post you will see that I went through a bootcamp, and I
    > >read MS Press books. The only thing I didn't say is yes I understood
    > >them and can program in ASP.NET already.
    > >
    > >The community and even Microsoft themselves recommends the use of
    > >practice exams. I was only asking which were best. I do not wish to
    > >cheat. And I do feel that I have learned ASP.NET sufficiently to
    > >program for a company. But the problem is there is a lot more
    > >information to memorize then really neccasary, and the practice exams
    > >will assist you in knowing which information you need to know to pass
    > >the exam.
    > >
    > >Thanks,
    > >
    > >Tom
    > >
    > >Kline Sphere <.> wrote in message news:<>...
    > >> > I can say that MeasureUp's suck because
    > >> >they didnt even come close to real exam and I failed 1st time.
    > >>
    > >> Oh no! What, you mean they did not give you the real answers to the
    > >> actual exam questions, maybe it's you that suck????
     
    Tommy Watt, Dec 22, 2003
    #11
  12. Tommy Watt

    Guest Guest


    >-----Original Message-----
    >There is a TON of stuff to memorize in these programming

    courses,

    This is the real issue, you shouldn't be just memorizing,
    learn the damn stuff !!
     
    Guest, Dec 22, 2003
    #12
  13. Tommy Watt

    Tommy Watt Guest

    I'll just assume you forgot to read the part that said I did that already.

    <> wrote in message news:<021e01c3c86c$3509e550$>...
    > >-----Original Message-----
    > >There is a TON of stuff to memorize in these programming

    > courses,
    >
    > This is the real issue, you shouldn't be just memorizing,
    > learn the damn stuff !!
     
    Tommy Watt, Dec 22, 2003
    #13
  14. Tommy Watt

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >This is the real issue, you shouldn't be just memorizing,
    >learn the damn stuff !!


    If the exam format's were different, 'memorizing' the answers to the
    simple questions would not be an option.
     
    Kline Sphere, Dec 22, 2003
    #14
  15. Tommy Watt

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >And you can't expect everyone to memorize the entire book.

    Why should you have to?

    Another problem with these exams has been microsoft attempt to 'make
    them harder' by simply making the questions more obscure.
     
    Kline Sphere, Dec 22, 2003
    #15
  16. Tommy Watt

    ¢harlie Guest

    Tom,

    Don't bother to explain any more.

    It is NOT WORTH IT.

    e'nuff said.



    "Tommy Watt" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I'll just assume you forgot to read the part that said I did that already.
    >
    > <> wrote in message

    news:<021e01c3c86c$3509e550$>...
    > > >-----Original Message-----
    > > >There is a TON of stuff to memorize in these programming

    > > courses,
    > >
    > > This is the real issue, you shouldn't be just memorizing,
    > > learn the damn stuff !!
     
    ¢harlie, Dec 22, 2003
    #16
  17. Amen to that. In my testing experience, limited though it may be, knowing
    object models is the most helpful. That way, when you see test questions,
    you can determine the correct answer.

    To me, the most frustrating thing is seeing material on the test that seems
    out of left field. Good practice exams are helpful, but not a silver bullet.
    MeasureUp's pretty good. Transcenders may be good too. But, and I've
    experienced this FIRST HAND, the difference between pass and fail is hands
    on work AND researching material on MSDN. You need to become an expert (or
    at least be able to hold your own) on the material.

    www.codeclinic.com is about the most helpful tool I've run across. But it
    ain't for the lazy.

    Brunswick


    "Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >And you can't expect everyone to memorize the entire book.

    >
    > Why should you have to?
    >
    > Another problem with these exams has been microsoft attempt to 'make
    > them harder' by simply making the questions more obscure.
     
    Brunswick Lowe, Dec 30, 2003
    #17
  18. Tommy Watt

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >But it
    >ain't for the lazy.


    Nor should the whole certification process, problem is lazy people can
    pass.
     
    Kline Sphere, Dec 30, 2003
    #18
  19. It's like any other profession. For every good professional, there are
    plenty of bad ones. Lots of lazy people pass the bar, get an MD or rip jobs
    from people who deserve them. I've met plenty of docs I wouldn't let near me
    if I were bleeding to death. Degrees and certifications shouldn't be more
    than door openers. So, as has been said many times in this newsgroup, many
    MCSD's may get a job and not be able to keep it.

    From my personal experience it takes a hell of a lot more than a B.S., MCSD,
    MBA, B.A. or whatever to land a job. I've met plenty of code bangers that
    can't carry on a conversation, for whatever reason. If you can't
    communicate, how can you effectively develop solutions? Similarly, if you
    braindumped and can't write code, how can you even produce a portfolio for
    your interview. So I don't really worry too much about it.

    Conversely, some of the best developers I know thumb their noses at Certs.
    They get tons of work. They could code circles around most folks. They are
    great communicators.

    In summary, I think Tommy's right on cue in looking for good test prep
    software. Do whatever helps you study. I don't think there's anything wrong
    with practice tests. Braindumps and practice tests aren't the same. Practice
    tests are designed to help you LEARN the material and pass the tests because
    of what you've really learned. Braindumps are designed to help you pass the
    test as a result of memorizing the questions. There's a big difference.
    Keeping that in mind, bad practice tests are frustrating and time consuming
    if they have you chasing rabbits (studying irrelevant material). You can
    check what you've been learning against www.microsoft.com or
    www.codeclinic.com to make sure you're studying the right material.

    Sorry for the rant, but I've been biting my tongue on this subject for about
    a year. Boy. I feel better.

    Brunswick

    "Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >But it
    > >ain't for the lazy.

    >
    > Nor should the whole certification process, problem is lazy people can
    > pass.
     
    Brunswick Lowe, Dec 31, 2003
    #19
  20. Tommy Watt

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >I've met plenty of code bangers that
    >can't carry on a conversation, for whatever reason. If you can't
    >communicate,


    Exactly, people just don't seem to understand how less involved coding
    is when compared to the rest of the development process.

    If more than twenty percent of resources are spent on 'coding'
    something is wrong. Ideally coding should ten percent, given the
    fantastic opportunities for reuse and development tools around, this
    should a fact rather than fiction.
     
    Kline Sphere, Dec 31, 2003
    #20
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