ethernet ups hookup

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Piccolo, May 1, 2004.

  1. Piccolo

    Piccolo Guest

    I am using a Belkin UPS with RJ45 connections. I have made and tried
    every type of cable, and have re-made them a few times as well
    thinking I may have not pushed them in good or something. The problem
    is, when I connect a cable to the ups, then to the computer, I get the
    message "A network cable is unplugged." Yet when I go straight from
    the wall to my computer there is no problem. Any suggestions, could it
    be that there are just too many beraks in the line? The entire setup
    when working follows this path....

    Cable Modem - Router - Wall in my room - Computer

    Router:
    Lnksys Etherfast® Cable/DSL Router BEFSR41 V3


    Ethernet Card:

    SMC EZ Card 10/100 (SMC1244TX V2)
    Piccolo, May 1, 2004
    #1
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  2. Piccolo

    why? Guest

    On Sat, 01 May 2004 02:07:55 -0500, Piccolo wrote:

    >I am using a Belkin UPS with RJ45 connections. I have made and tried


    No detail model/part number of UPS.

    >every type of cable, and have re-made them a few times as well
    >thinking I may have not pushed them in good or something. The problem
    >is, when I connect a cable to the ups, then to the computer, I get the
    >message "A network cable is unplugged." Yet when I go straight from


    Without details of the model of UPS, my 1st guess would be an RJ45
    connector doesn't make it Ethernet, so perhaps you are discovering why a
    Serial port UPS connection doesn't work plugged into a NIC?

    >the wall to my computer there is no problem. Any suggestions, could it


    The example working setup doesn't include any mention of the UPS so it's
    not an example?

    >be that there are just too many beraks in the line? The entire setup


    Too many breaks where?

    >when working follows this path....
    >
    >Cable Modem - Router - Wall in my room - Computer


    Ethernet device - Ethernet device - cable run - Ethernet device.

    >
    >Router:
    >Lnksys Etherfast® Cable/DSL Router BEFSR41 V3

    Model of router.


    >Ethernet Card:
    >SMC EZ Card 10/100 (SMC1244TX V2)

    Model of NIC


    Me
    why?, May 1, 2004
    #2
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  3. Piccolo

    John Guest

    In article <>, Piccolo
    <> wrote:

    > I am using a Belkin UPS with RJ45 connections. I have made and tried
    > every type of cable, and have re-made them a few times as well
    > thinking I may have not pushed them in good or something. The problem
    > is, when I connect a cable to the ups, then to the computer, I get the
    > message "A network cable is unplugged."


    This is not a connection you should be unplugging when the computer is
    on. Leave it in place, and disconnect or connect only when the computer
    is turned off.
    You should never disconnect any kind of plug from the computer unless
    it is USB or FireWire. It is smartest just to assume every other kind
    must be handle only when the computer is shut down (it doesn't have to
    be disconnected, and in truth many devices may have no problem with you
    yanking cables out freely -- but you shouldn't assume that as a basic
    practice.)
    John, May 2, 2004
    #3
  4. Piccolo

    Toolman Tim Guest

    "John" <> wrote in message
    news:020520040246527480%...
    > In article <>, Piccolo
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > > I am using a Belkin UPS with RJ45 connections. I have made and tried
    > > every type of cable, and have re-made them a few times as well
    > > thinking I may have not pushed them in good or something. The problem
    > > is, when I connect a cable to the ups, then to the computer, I get the
    > > message "A network cable is unplugged."

    >
    > This is not a connection you should be unplugging when the computer is
    > on. Leave it in place, and disconnect or connect only when the computer
    > is turned off.
    > You should never disconnect any kind of plug from the computer unless
    > it is USB or FireWire. It is smartest just to assume every other kind
    > must be handle only when the computer is shut down (it doesn't have to
    > be disconnected, and in truth many devices may have no problem with you
    > yanking cables out freely -- but you shouldn't assume that as a basic
    > practice.)


    So true...but in 20+ years of computer experience, I've only damaged 2
    peripherals by plugging them in with the power on. One *was* ethernet - a
    router (blew out one port, must have had a bad plug) - the other was a
    parallel printer (blew a fuse in the printer).
    Toolman Tim, May 2, 2004
    #4
  5. Piccolo

    Piccolo Guest

    On Sun, 2 May 2004 10:05:54 -0700, "Toolman Tim"
    <tmayer541_at_charter.invalid> wrote:

    >
    >"John" <> wrote in message
    >news:020520040246527480%...
    >> In article <>, Piccolo
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >> > I am using a Belkin UPS with RJ45 connections. I have made and tried
    >> > every type of cable, and have re-made them a few times as well
    >> > thinking I may have not pushed them in good or something. The problem
    >> > is, when I connect a cable to the ups, then to the computer, I get the
    >> > message "A network cable is unplugged."

    >>
    >> This is not a connection you should be unplugging when the computer is
    >> on. Leave it in place, and disconnect or connect only when the computer
    >> is turned off.
    >> You should never disconnect any kind of plug from the computer unless
    >> it is USB or FireWire. It is smartest just to assume every other kind
    >> must be handle only when the computer is shut down (it doesn't have to
    >> be disconnected, and in truth many devices may have no problem with you
    >> yanking cables out freely -- but you shouldn't assume that as a basic
    >> practice.)

    >
    >So true...but in 20+ years of computer experience, I've only damaged 2
    >peripherals by plugging them in with the power on. One *was* ethernet - a
    >router (blew out one port, must have had a bad plug) - the other was a
    >parallel printer (blew a fuse in the printer).
    >


    Sorry about not posting the UPS model ... and I never even gave it a
    second thought about having power off while plugging and unplugging
    ethernet cables, yet I do with everything else.

    Belkin UPS: Universal UPS 1200VA
    Model: F6C120-UNV
    Nic: SMC EZ Card 10/100 (SMC1244TX V2)
    Model: 1244TX V2
    Router: Lnksys Etherfast® Cable/DSL Router BEFSR41 V3
    Model :BEFSR41 V3 Firmware version; 1.05.00

    Working Network Setup:

    Cable Modem - Router - Wall in my room - Computer


    Non-Working Network Setup:

    Cable Modem - Router - Wall in my room - UPS - Computer

    UPS says it is for phone/faxt/mode/networking plugs

    From Belkin Site:
    Provides up to 100 minutes backup time
    Battery load capacity: 1200VA (670 Watts)
    Bulldog Plus Software: Compatible with Windows XP, 95/98, 2000, NT
    Provides 6 Outlets: 4 battery backup outlets w/surge protection and 2
    outlets w/surge protection only
    Serial and USB Ports
    1 In, 1 Out RJ45/RJ11 jack with surge protection
    Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR)

    anything else I left out, sorry.
    Thank you
    Have fun
    gg back to finals work
    Piccolo, May 3, 2004
    #5
  6. Piccolo

    Toolman Tim Guest

    "Piccolo" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 2 May 2004 10:05:54 -0700, "Toolman Tim"
    > <tmayer541_at_charter.invalid> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"John" <> wrote in message
    > >news:020520040246527480%...
    > >> In article <>, Piccolo
    > >> <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > I am using a Belkin UPS with RJ45 connections. I have made and tried
    > >> > every type of cable, and have re-made them a few times as well
    > >> > thinking I may have not pushed them in good or something. The problem
    > >> > is, when I connect a cable to the ups, then to the computer, I get

    the
    > >> > message "A network cable is unplugged."
    > >>
    > >> This is not a connection you should be unplugging when the computer is
    > >> on. Leave it in place, and disconnect or connect only when the computer
    > >> is turned off.
    > >> You should never disconnect any kind of plug from the computer unless
    > >> it is USB or FireWire. It is smartest just to assume every other kind
    > >> must be handle only when the computer is shut down (it doesn't have to
    > >> be disconnected, and in truth many devices may have no problem with you
    > >> yanking cables out freely -- but you shouldn't assume that as a basic
    > >> practice.)

    > >
    > >So true...but in 20+ years of computer experience, I've only damaged 2
    > >peripherals by plugging them in with the power on. One *was* ethernet - a
    > >router (blew out one port, must have had a bad plug) - the other was a
    > >parallel printer (blew a fuse in the printer).
    > >

    >
    > Sorry about not posting the UPS model ... and I never even gave it a
    > second thought about having power off while plugging and unplugging
    > ethernet cables, yet I do with everything else.
    >
    > Belkin UPS: Universal UPS 1200VA
    > Model: F6C120-UNV
    > Nic: SMC EZ Card 10/100 (SMC1244TX V2)
    > Model: 1244TX V2
    > Router: Lnksys Etherfast® Cable/DSL Router BEFSR41 V3
    > Model :BEFSR41 V3 Firmware version; 1.05.00
    >
    > Working Network Setup:
    >
    > Cable Modem - Router - Wall in my room - Computer
    >
    >
    > Non-Working Network Setup:
    >
    > Cable Modem - Router - Wall in my room - UPS - Computer
    >
    > UPS says it is for phone/faxt/mode/networking plugs
    >
    > From Belkin Site:
    > Provides up to 100 minutes backup time
    > Battery load capacity: 1200VA (670 Watts)
    > Bulldog Plus Software: Compatible with Windows XP, 95/98, 2000, NT
    > Provides 6 Outlets: 4 battery backup outlets w/surge protection and 2
    > outlets w/surge protection only
    > Serial and USB Ports
    > 1 In, 1 Out RJ45/RJ11 jack with surge protection
    > Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR)
    >
    > anything else I left out, sorry.
    > Thank you
    > Have fun
    > gg back to finals work
    >


    Okay - now that I've finally taken time to understand the problem <g> I
    think you may need to deal with Belkin customer support...I'd bet that part
    of the UPS is defective or requires a custom cable.

    Some of us (myself included) assumed you were trying to use that port for
    the control functions on the UPS to tell the computer to shut down. Which
    explains some of the comments about trying to use it to connect to a serial
    port, etc. Sorry for the confusion ;o)
    Toolman Tim, May 3, 2004
    #6
  7. Piccolo

    Dan Shea Guest

    You should be using a straight ethernet cable between your computer
    and this UPS. You should also have a straight ethernet cable from
    this UPS to your router.

    Question for you: is the UPS turned on? Do you anything else plugged
    in to the UPS, and is that stuff working? If so, and you're still
    getting a "cable disconnected" message, I'm tempted to say you've got
    a bad network port on the UPS.

    Cheers,
    dan


    On Sun, 02 May 2004 18:40:49 -0500, Piccolo <> wrote:

    >On Sun, 2 May 2004 10:05:54 -0700, "Toolman Tim"
    ><tmayer541_at_charter.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"John" <> wrote in message
    >>news:020520040246527480%...
    >>> In article <>, Piccolo
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> > I am using a Belkin UPS with RJ45 connections. I have made and tried
    >>> > every type of cable, and have re-made them a few times as well
    >>> > thinking I may have not pushed them in good or something. The problem
    >>> > is, when I connect a cable to the ups, then to the computer, I get the
    >>> > message "A network cable is unplugged."
    >>>
    >>> This is not a connection you should be unplugging when the computer is
    >>> on. Leave it in place, and disconnect or connect only when the computer
    >>> is turned off.
    >>> You should never disconnect any kind of plug from the computer unless
    >>> it is USB or FireWire. It is smartest just to assume every other kind
    >>> must be handle only when the computer is shut down (it doesn't have to
    >>> be disconnected, and in truth many devices may have no problem with you
    >>> yanking cables out freely -- but you shouldn't assume that as a basic
    >>> practice.)

    >>
    >>So true...but in 20+ years of computer experience, I've only damaged 2
    >>peripherals by plugging them in with the power on. One *was* ethernet - a
    >>router (blew out one port, must have had a bad plug) - the other was a
    >>parallel printer (blew a fuse in the printer).
    >>

    >
    >Sorry about not posting the UPS model ... and I never even gave it a
    >second thought about having power off while plugging and unplugging
    >ethernet cables, yet I do with everything else.
    >
    >Belkin UPS: Universal UPS 1200VA
    >Model: F6C120-UNV
    >Nic: SMC EZ Card 10/100 (SMC1244TX V2)
    >Model: 1244TX V2
    >Router: Lnksys Etherfast® Cable/DSL Router BEFSR41 V3
    >Model :BEFSR41 V3 Firmware version; 1.05.00
    >
    >Working Network Setup:
    >
    >Cable Modem - Router - Wall in my room - Computer
    >
    >
    >Non-Working Network Setup:
    >
    >Cable Modem - Router - Wall in my room - UPS - Computer
    >
    >UPS says it is for phone/faxt/mode/networking plugs
    >
    >From Belkin Site:
    > Provides up to 100 minutes backup time
    > Battery load capacity: 1200VA (670 Watts)
    > Bulldog Plus Software: Compatible with Windows XP, 95/98, 2000, NT
    > Provides 6 Outlets: 4 battery backup outlets w/surge protection and 2
    >outlets w/surge protection only
    > Serial and USB Ports
    > 1 In, 1 Out RJ45/RJ11 jack with surge protection
    > Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR)
    >
    >anything else I left out, sorry.
    >Thank you
    >Have fun
    >gg back to finals work
    Dan Shea, May 3, 2004
    #7
  8. Piccolo

    Piccolo Guest

    On Sun, 2 May 2004 16:47:39 -0700, "Toolman Tim"
    <tmayer541_at_charter.invalid> wrote:

    >
    >"Piccolo" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Sun, 2 May 2004 10:05:54 -0700, "Toolman Tim"
    >> <tmayer541_at_charter.invalid> wrote:
    >>
    >> >
    >> >"John" <> wrote in message
    >> >news:020520040246527480%...
    >> >> In article <>, Piccolo
    >> >> <> wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> > I am using a Belkin UPS with RJ45 connections. I have made and tried
    >> >> > every type of cable, and have re-made them a few times as well
    >> >> > thinking I may have not pushed them in good or something. The problem
    >> >> > is, when I connect a cable to the ups, then to the computer, I get

    >the
    >> >> > message "A network cable is unplugged."
    >> >>
    >> >> This is not a connection you should be unplugging when the computer is
    >> >> on. Leave it in place, and disconnect or connect only when the computer
    >> >> is turned off.
    >> >> You should never disconnect any kind of plug from the computer unless
    >> >> it is USB or FireWire. It is smartest just to assume every other kind
    >> >> must be handle only when the computer is shut down (it doesn't have to
    >> >> be disconnected, and in truth many devices may have no problem with you
    >> >> yanking cables out freely -- but you shouldn't assume that as a basic
    >> >> practice.)
    >> >
    >> >So true...but in 20+ years of computer experience, I've only damaged 2
    >> >peripherals by plugging them in with the power on. One *was* ethernet - a
    >> >router (blew out one port, must have had a bad plug) - the other was a
    >> >parallel printer (blew a fuse in the printer).
    >> >

    >>
    >> Sorry about not posting the UPS model ... and I never even gave it a
    >> second thought about having power off while plugging and unplugging
    >> ethernet cables, yet I do with everything else.
    >>
    >> Belkin UPS: Universal UPS 1200VA
    >> Model: F6C120-UNV
    >> Nic: SMC EZ Card 10/100 (SMC1244TX V2)
    >> Model: 1244TX V2
    >> Router: Lnksys Etherfast® Cable/DSL Router BEFSR41 V3
    >> Model :BEFSR41 V3 Firmware version; 1.05.00
    >>
    >> Working Network Setup:
    >>
    >> Cable Modem - Router - Wall in my room - Computer
    >>
    >>
    >> Non-Working Network Setup:
    >>
    >> Cable Modem - Router - Wall in my room - UPS - Computer
    >>
    >> UPS says it is for phone/faxt/mode/networking plugs
    >>
    >> From Belkin Site:
    >> Provides up to 100 minutes backup time
    >> Battery load capacity: 1200VA (670 Watts)
    >> Bulldog Plus Software: Compatible with Windows XP, 95/98, 2000, NT
    >> Provides 6 Outlets: 4 battery backup outlets w/surge protection and 2
    >> outlets w/surge protection only
    >> Serial and USB Ports
    >> 1 In, 1 Out RJ45/RJ11 jack with surge protection
    >> Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR)
    >>
    >> anything else I left out, sorry.
    >> Thank you
    >> Have fun
    >> gg back to finals work
    >>

    >
    >Okay - now that I've finally taken time to understand the problem <g> I
    >think you may need to deal with Belkin customer support...I'd bet that part
    >of the UPS is defective or requires a custom cable.
    >
    >Some of us (myself included) assumed you were trying to use that port for
    >the control functions on the UPS to tell the computer to shut down. Which
    >explains some of the comments about trying to use it to connect to a serial
    >port, etc. Sorry for the confusion ;o)
    >
    >

    Not your fault for the confusion, its mine, sorry. Everything else
    works, Ive had a few power outages, and it works wonderfully, except
    for the network part ofcourse. Have my computer, printer, monitor, and
    speakers all plugged into it. I will go ahead and contact belkin then,
    it will have to be email because of school and finals and such. I hope
    it is not a custom cable.
    Thank you for the replies, and not just ignoring this. Again, sorry
    about the confusion.. That late at night/early in the morning it
    seemed to be fairly clear.
    Piccolo, May 3, 2004
    #8
  9. Piccolo

    w_tom Guest

    The protector is not doing anything effective - other than
    doing the same job of a $3 retail plug mole. Don't worry
    about the RJ45 connection. Any protection that works at the
    computer is already inside the computer - part of the NIC.
    But worry about what internal protection requires, so as not
    to be overwhelmed. Building must have 'whole house'
    protection. Such protection is routinely installed by phone
    company because it is so effective and so inexpensive. So
    inexpensive; on the order of tens of times less money than the
    Belkin. But AC electric typically has no such 'whole house'
    protection.

    A surge protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
    The Belkin typically has no earth ground connection. Read the
    Belkin specs. They don't even mention which type of
    destructive transients they protect from. Why? Better to let
    you assume it protects from all types of surges. Otherwise
    you might discover it does nothing and may even contribute to
    damage during the typically destructive surge.

    Protection from a destructive surge required a less than 10
    foot connection to single point earth ground. When selling an
    ineffective product at such excessive cost, then why bother
    mentioning the most essential and necessary component of a
    protection system - earthing? Better to not harm a so
    profitable sale. Better to not mention that no earth ground
    means no effective protection.

    Don't worry about that RJ45 connector. It will only degrade
    network signals AND provides no effective protection. Again
    read their specs. Where does it state protection for each
    type of surge? Where does it even say what protection is
    provided - shunt or series mode? For that matter, where does
    it specifically state, with numbers, the protection? It does
    not. Network protection that is effective at the NIC is
    already on that NIC.

    For those technically inclined to learn concepts, summaries
    are in previous discussions: "RJ-11 line protection?" on 31
    Dec 2003 in pdx.computing, at
    http://tinyurl.com/2hl53 and
    "Opinions on Surge Protectors?" on 7 Jul 2003 in the
    newsgroup alt.certification.a-plus at
    http://tinyurl.com/l3m9

    A surge protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
    No earth ground means ....

    Piccolo wrote:
    > Not your fault for the confusion, its mine, sorry. Everything else
    > works, Ive had a few power outages, and it works wonderfully, except
    > for the network part ofcourse. Have my computer, printer, monitor,
    > and speakers all plugged into it. I will go ahead and contact
    > belkin then, it will have to be email because of school and finals
    > and such. I hope it is not a custom cable.
    > Thank you for the replies, and not just ignoring this. Again, sorry
    > about the confusion.. That late at night/early in the morning it
    > seemed to be fairly clear.
    w_tom, May 3, 2004
    #9
  10. w_tom wrote:

    > The protector is not doing anything effective - other than
    > doing the same job of a $3 retail plug mole.


    <snip>

    This is bound to be a US/UK terminology thing, but, what is
    a "$3 retail plug mole"? I suspect that the equivalent may
    be a "surge-arresting plug-top" - in English english.
    =?UTF-8?B?UGFsaW5kcuKYu21l?=, May 3, 2004
    #10
  11. Piccolo

    w_tom Guest

    Go to Home Depot or Walmart. Buy a $3 plug mole that has
    the important 15 amp circuit breaker. Remove that circuit
    breaker. Install some $0.10 components. Sell the plug mole
    as a $15 or $50 surge protector. Notice what the plug mole is
    and the so profitable markup. Plug moles sold on hype and
    often missing that important 15 amp circuit breaker are called
    power strip surge protectors.

    Palindr?me wrote:
    > This is bound to be a US/UK terminology thing, but, what is
    > a "$3 retail plug mole"? I suspect that the equivalent may
    > be a "surge-arresting plug-top" - in English english.
    w_tom, May 3, 2004
    #11
  12. w_tom wrote:

    > Go to Home Depot or Walmart. Buy a $3 plug mole that has
    > the important 15 amp circuit breaker. Remove that circuit
    > breaker. Install some $0.10 components. Sell the plug mole
    > as a $15 or $50 surge protector. Notice what the plug mole is
    > and the so profitable markup. Plug moles sold on hype and
    > often missing that important 15 amp circuit breaker are called
    > power strip surge protectors.
    >
    > Palindr?me wrote:
    >
    >>This is bound to be a US/UK terminology thing, but, what is
    >>a "$3 retail plug mole"? I suspect that the equivalent may
    >>be a "surge-arresting plug-top" - in English english.


    Sorry, ROFL. Still a communications breakdown! What is a
    mole when it isn't a small furry animal with bad eyesight?
    This is probably a word used everyday in the US but here in
    the UK, no. We don't have Home Depot (although I have been
    to several in the US and so know what you mean) and our
    Walmarts are very different, are called Asda and sell not
    much apart from food and some clothes. In the UK, ircuit
    breakers are only fitted in consumer units - which is the
    box that takes the house supply and breaks it out into
    lighting and power ring mains (we use rings rather than
    multiple independent circuits). I am trying to get to
    understand the US terminology, so please bear with me! We do
    have multi-way adapters that provide 4 sockets on a short
    cable, but they are protected by non-rewireable fuses rather
    than circuit breakers. Could a "mole" be a short cable with
    a plug on one end and socket(s) on the other?
    =?UTF-8?B?UGFsaW5kcuKYu21l?=, May 3, 2004
    #12
  13. Piccolo

    w_tom Guest

    In the US, we don't have fuses in the plug. Typically the
    branch (your counterpart is a ring) will handle 20 amps. Each
    receptacle on that branch is rated at 15 amps. Each plug is
    physically constructed so that if the appliance can plug into
    the wall receptacle, then it will not draw more than 15 amps.

    Power strips permit one wall receptacle to feed many power
    strip receptacles (what is called a plug mole - and yes I too
    thought the expression weird when I first heard it in my
    engineering companies).

    Sometimes, an American will plug many plug moles in series
    or plug too many high current appliances into one plug mole.
    This means the 15 amp wall receptacle is providing up to (and
    often more because of how circuit breakers work) 20 amps from
    a 15 amp receptacle.

    A 15 amp CB is necessary on each plug mole. Recently, a dog
    kennel burned down because the owner daisy chained a bunch of
    plug moles to feed multiple electric heaters. It worked fine
    when she left so therefore it would always work fine. Plug
    mole caught fire and killed all dogs.

    Why plug moles (power strips) can be sold in the US without
    that 15 amp breaker is beyond me. But this circuit breaker
    should be standard at any computer station using multiple AC
    power plugs. Again, UK does not have this problem because a
    32 amp ring feeds a 13 amp plug mole via fuses in the
    electrical plug.

    Palindr?me wrote:
    > Sorry, ROFL. Still a communications breakdown! What is a
    > mole when it isn't a small furry animal with bad eyesight?
    > This is probably a word used everyday in the US but here in
    > the UK, no. We don't have Home Depot (although I have been
    > to several in the US and so know what you mean) and our
    > Walmarts are very different, are called Asda and sell not
    > much apart from food and some clothes. In the UK, ircuit
    > breakers are only fitted in consumer units - which is the
    > box that takes the house supply and breaks it out into
    > lighting and power ring mains (we use rings rather than
    > multiple independent circuits). I am trying to get to
    > understand the US terminology, so please bear with me! We do
    > have multi-way adapters that provide 4 sockets on a short
    > cable, but they are protected by non-rewireable fuses rather
    > than circuit breakers. Could a "mole" be a short cable with
    > a plug on one end and socket(s) on the other?
    w_tom, May 3, 2004
    #13
  14. Thanks! Seeems crazy to me too that they don't fuse your
    moles. After all, it's amperes that causes overheating and
    you have twice as much as we do - and we have fuses in all
    power strips, as well as in all the plugs.

    w_tom wrote:

    > In the US, we don't have fuses in the plug. Typically the
    > branch (your counterpart is a ring) will handle 20 amps. Each
    > receptacle on that branch is rated at 15 amps. Each plug is
    > physically constructed so that if the appliance can plug into
    > the wall receptacle, then it will not draw more than 15 amps.
    >
    > Power strips permit one wall receptacle to feed many power
    > strip receptacles (what is called a plug mole - and yes I too
    > thought the expression weird when I first heard it in my
    > engineering companies).
    >
    > Sometimes, an American will plug many plug moles in series
    > or plug too many high current appliances into one plug mole.
    > This means the 15 amp wall receptacle is providing up to (and
    > often more because of how circuit breakers work) 20 amps from
    > a 15 amp receptacle.
    >
    > A 15 amp CB is necessary on each plug mole. Recently, a dog
    > kennel burned down because the owner daisy chained a bunch of
    > plug moles to feed multiple electric heaters. It worked fine
    > when she left so therefore it would always work fine. Plug
    > mole caught fire and killed all dogs.
    >
    > Why plug moles (power strips) can be sold in the US without
    > that 15 amp breaker is beyond me. But this circuit breaker
    > should be standard at any computer station using multiple AC
    > power plugs. Again, UK does not have this problem because a
    > 32 amp ring feeds a 13 amp plug mole via fuses in the
    > electrical plug.
    >
    > Palindr?me wrote:
    >
    >>Sorry, ROFL. Still a communications breakdown! What is a
    >>mole when it isn't a small furry animal with bad eyesight?
    >>This is probably a word used everyday in the US but here in
    >>the UK, no. We don't have Home Depot (although I have been
    >>to several in the US and so know what you mean) and our
    >>Walmarts are very different, are called Asda and sell not
    >>much apart from food and some clothes. In the UK, ircuit
    >>breakers are only fitted in consumer units - which is the
    >>box that takes the house supply and breaks it out into
    >>lighting and power ring mains (we use rings rather than
    >>multiple independent circuits). I am trying to get to
    >>understand the US terminology, so please bear with me! We do
    >>have multi-way adapters that provide 4 sockets on a short
    >>cable, but they are protected by non-rewireable fuses rather
    >>than circuit breakers. Could a "mole" be a short cable with
    >>a plug on one end and socket(s) on the other?
    =?UTF-8?B?UGFsaW5kcuKYu21l?=, May 3, 2004
    #14
  15. Piccolo

    Chas. Guest

    Piccolo <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > On Sun, 2 May 2004 16:47:39 -0700, "Toolman Tim"
    > <tmayer541_at_charter.invalid> wrote:
    >

    <snip>

    > Not your fault for the confusion, its mine, sorry. Everything else
    > works, Ive had a few power outages, and it works wonderfully, except
    > for the network part ofcourse. Have my computer, printer, monitor, and
    > speakers all plugged into it. I will go ahead and contact belkin then,
    > it will have to be email because of school and finals and such. I hope
    > it is not a custom cable.
    > Thank you for the replies, and not just ignoring this. Again, sorry
    > about the confusion.. That late at night/early in the morning it
    > seemed to be fairly clear.


    Do you have or can you plug the router into the UPS for AC power?
    Aside from emergency power backup, one of the major fuctions of a UPS
    is surge protection.

    If the router is plugged into the UPS then you don't need to connect
    the RJ45 to the UPS, it will all be on the same circuit.

    You do have surge protection on any other PCs and peripherals don't
    you?

    Chas.
    Chas., May 3, 2004
    #15
  16. Piccolo

    why? Guest

    On Sun, 02 May 2004 18:40:49 -0500, Piccolo wrote:

    >On Sun, 2 May 2004 10:05:54 -0700, "Toolman Tim"
    ><tmayer541_at_charter.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"John" <> wrote in message
    >>news:020520040246527480%...
    >>> In article <>, Piccolo
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> > I am using a Belkin UPS with RJ45 connections. I have made and tried
    >>> > every type of cable, and have re-made them a few times as well
    >>> > thinking I may have not pushed them in good or something. The problem
    >>> > is, when I connect a cable to the ups, then to the computer, I get the
    >>> > message "A network cable is unplugged."
    >>>

    <snip>
    >>

    >
    >Sorry about not posting the UPS model ... and I never even gave it a
    >second thought about having power off while plugging and unplugging
    >ethernet cables, yet I do with everything else.
    >
    >Belkin UPS: Universal UPS 1200VA
    >Model: F6C120-UNV


    Having a look at this document,
    http://web.belkin.com/support/download/files/UNV_User_Manual-A.pdf
    not much of a manual.

    Try patch (straight through) cables from the ISP to IN , same for OUT to
    Router/Switch/PC i.e. the protected device..

    <snip>

    However the poor diagram says RJ11/RJ45 as there looks like only 2
    sockets and not 4 or any mention of adapters it's hard to say just what
    you need.

    All the documentation seems to be off the 1 page
    http://search.belkin.com/cgi-bin/Ms...EN=X&AGE_WGT=0&CAT_KEY=1&BACK_FIRST_CAT_NUM=0


    The specs dos says, as you say is -
    Telecommunication Protection 1 In, 1 Out (RJ45/RJ11) jacks.
    http://web.belkin.com/support/download/files/F6CXXX-UNV Specs.pdf

    Sounds like it's almost DSL connection RJ11 is IN and RJ45 is OUT to
    router. This seems a bit odd.


    www.google.com
    finds

    DSL links
    http://www.dataworlddirect.com/tech_reference.html

    Maybe this,
    Targus RETRACTABEL RJ11/RJ45 CORD ( PA225U )
    or
    http://www.revealcable.co.uk/Large/1700/aa_1733.htm
    not exact , but RJ45 to RJ11 adapters
    http://www.commdevices.com/cable_kits.htm
    or
    http://www.meadow.net/pinouts.html

    This should be enough clues to do your own search.


    >
    >Non-Working Network Setup:
    >
    >Cable Modem - Router - Wall in my room - UPS - Computer
    >
    >UPS says it is for phone/faxt/mode/networking plugs
    >
    >From Belkin Site:
    > Provides up to 100 minutes backup time

    <snip>

    >
    >anything else I left out, sorry.
    >Thank you
    >Have fun
    >gg back to finals work


    Me
    why?, May 3, 2004
    #16
  17. Piccolo

    w_tom Guest

    The plug-in UPS protects from data loss. It claims surge
    protection, but then forgets to mention which type of surge it
    protects from. That is enough for the technically naive to
    *assume* it protects from 'all' types of surges. We call that
    non-scientific conclusion a myth.

    The plug-in UPS protects from a type of surge that does not
    typically exist. Uses same protection circuit found in power
    strip surge protectors. But a destructive surge requires a
    shunt mode protector or a dedicated hard wire, less than 10
    feet, to a single point earth ground. Since the plug-in UPS
    has no dedicated earthing wire, best to not even mention
    different type of surges. Best to avoid all discussion about
    earthing. Best to not even provide a single useful number on
    surge protection in specs so pathetic as to not even discuss
    the RJ45 connectors. Therefore the naive will *assume* that
    surge protector is also surge protection. Myth promoted.

    Surge protector is a circuit. A circuit that may be an MOV,
    an avalanche diode, a Gas Discharge Tube (GDT), or a wire.
    But 'system' still must inclue a most essential component.
    "Single point earth ground". No earth ground means no
    effective protection.

    Where does that plug-in UPS even mention earthing? It does
    not. It hopes the technically naive - also known as myth
    purveyors - will perform word association. If it is a surge
    'protector', then it must be surge 'protection'? False.
    Surge protectors and surge protection are two different
    components of a surge protection 'system'.

    A surge protection 'system' may or may not contain a surge
    protector. But an effective surge protection 'system' always
    requires a that common earth ground.

    No earth ground means no effective protection. The plug-in
    protector - the item that has no dedicated connection to earth
    ground - does not provide nor does it even claim to provide
    effective protection.

    Ineffective protectors (such as that plug-in UPS) fear you
    might learn this. It's not rocket science. Well understood
    even in the 1930s. One should wonder why America must import
    so many immigrants to fill the ranks of engineers and
    scientists. When even so many Americans don't understand well
    proven 1930 science and the concepts demonstrated by Ben
    Franklin in 1752 - then we surely have too many Americans
    without scientific knowledge. Too many Americans promote the
    junk science reasoning that 'protector' and 'protection' are
    same. A surge protector is only as effective as its earth
    ground - old and well proven concept.

    "Chas." wrote:
    > Do you have or can you plug the router into the UPS for AC power?
    > Aside from emergency power backup, one of the major fuctions of a
    > UPS is surge protection.
    >
    > If the router is plugged into the UPS then you don't need to
    > connect the RJ45 to the UPS, it will all be on the same circuit.
    >
    > You do have surge protection on any other PCs and peripherals
    > don't you?
    w_tom, May 3, 2004
    #17
  18. w_tom wrote:

    > The plug-in UPS protects from data loss. It claims surge
    > protection, but then forgets to mention which type of surge it
    > protects from. That is enough for the technically naive to
    > *assume* it protects from 'all' types of surges. We call that
    > non-scientific conclusion a myth.
    >
    > The plug-in UPS protects from a type of surge that does not
    > typically exist. Uses same protection circuit found in power
    > strip surge protectors. But a destructive surge requires a
    > shunt mode protector or a dedicated hard wire, less than 10
    > feet, to a single point earth ground. Since the plug-in UPS
    > has no dedicated earthing wire, best to not even mention
    > different type of surges. Best to avoid all discussion about
    > earthing. Best to not even provide a single useful number on
    > surge protection in specs so pathetic as to not even discuss
    > the RJ45 connectors. Therefore the naive will *assume* that
    > surge protector is also surge protection. Myth promoted.
    >
    > Surge protector is a circuit. A circuit that may be an MOV,
    > an avalanche diode, a Gas Discharge Tube (GDT), or a wire.
    > But 'system' still must inclue a most essential component.
    > "Single point earth ground". No earth ground means no
    > effective protection.
    >
    > Where does that plug-in UPS even mention earthing? It does
    > not. It hopes the technically naive - also known as myth
    > purveyors - will perform word association. If it is a surge
    > 'protector', then it must be surge 'protection'? False.
    > Surge protectors and surge protection are two different
    > components of a surge protection 'system'.
    >
    > A surge protection 'system' may or may not contain a surge
    > protector. But an effective surge protection 'system' always
    > requires a that common earth ground.
    >
    > No earth ground means no effective protection. The plug-in
    > protector - the item that has no dedicated connection to earth
    > ground - does not provide nor does it even claim to provide
    > effective protection.
    >
    > Ineffective protectors (such as that plug-in UPS) fear you
    > might learn this. It's not rocket science. Well understood
    > even in the 1930s. One should wonder why America must import
    > so many immigrants to fill the ranks of engineers and
    > scientists. When even so many Americans don't understand well
    > proven 1930 science and the concepts demonstrated by Ben
    > Franklin in 1752 - then we surely have too many Americans
    > without scientific knowledge. Too many Americans promote the
    > junk science reasoning that 'protector' and 'protection' are
    > same. A surge protector is only as effective as its earth
    > ground - old and well proven concept.


    We (UK) differentiate between transient suppression, where
    the amount of excess energy is small and can be absorbed
    locally by something getting hot, and surge suppression -
    where the excess energy could not be absorbed locally
    without being dissipated in a shower of molten metal and
    ionised gas.

    If you want to get rid of excess energy, the choices are
    into producing molten metal and white hot gases within the
    enclosure, or dumping it into the user, or the house power
    rails (and everything connected to them) or into the ground
    wire. It is not unusual to get the first three all together,
    without surge protection bonded to a good earth.

    So, FWIW, I agree with you. If people don't, just ask them
    where they want the escess energy to go...













    >
    > "Chas." wrote:
    >
    >>Do you have or can you plug the router into the UPS for AC power?
    >>Aside from emergency power backup, one of the major fuctions of a
    >>UPS is surge protection.
    >>
    >>If the router is plugged into the UPS then you don't need to
    >>connect the RJ45 to the UPS, it will all be on the same circuit.
    >>
    >>You do have surge protection on any other PCs and peripherals
    >>don't you?
    =?UTF-8?B?UGFsaW5kcuKYu21l?=, May 4, 2004
    #18
  19. Piccolo

    Dan Shea Guest

    On Mon, 03 May 2004 20:54:44 GMT, why?
    <fgrirp*sgc@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> wrote:

    <snip>
    >However the poor diagram says RJ11/RJ45 as there looks like only 2
    >sockets and not 4 or any mention of adapters it's hard to say just what
    >you need.

    <snip>

    It's two jacks, one input one output, each compatible with either RJ11
    or RJ45 plugs. Use it for either telephone/modem (RJ11) or ethernet
    (RJ45), but not both simultaneously, as needed.

    Cheers,
    dan
    Dan Shea, May 4, 2004
    #19
  20. Piccolo

    w_tom Guest

    In order to absorb energy, then a protecting device must be
    in series - in line - with the protected appliance. But
    plug-in surge protectors don't work that way. The protector
    device is in parallel (called a shunt mode device). Protector
    connects to AC mains as if it was another light bulb. If
    protector device attempts to absorb the transient, then device
    resistance must increase. But if resistance increases, then
    surge would then go elsewhere such as through 'so called'
    protected appliance. Shunt mode protectors cannot and do not
    protect by absorbing energy - which is contrary to myths that
    recommend a plug-in protector such as the Belkin.

    Shunt mode protectors such as MOVs, GDTs, and avalanche
    diodes do not absorb the surge. And if a protector fails -
    "producing molten metal and white hot gases within the
    enclosure" - then the device was grossly undersized and
    completely ineffective. Shunt mode protectors act like wires
    because their only job is to shunt. To perform just like
    Franklin's 1752 lightning rods. Lightning rods don't absorb
    the energy. Either does a shunt mode protector.

    First, a shunt mode protector acts just like a wire. Does a
    wire shunt absorb energy? Of course not. And yet that is
    what so many myth purveyors would have us believe. They would
    have us believe that MOVs inside a surge protector *absorb*
    the surge; do not become shunts or act like wires. They would
    have us believe a myth.

    Second, where is energy absorbed? Mostly in the sky and in
    the earth. View the electrical path from cloud, down through
    house, then some miles over there via earth. Does lightning
    take the diagonal path 5 miles over to earthborne charges? Of
    course not. It takes am electrically shorter path 4 miles
    straight down and 3 miles through earth.

    How to avoid damage? Shunt that direct strike using the 10
    feet shunt (either a hardwire or 'whole house' protector) to
    earth ground. Energy is absorbed in 4 miles of sky and 3
    miles of earth. A shunt (ie. a 'whole house' protector)
    bypasses the house so that energy is not absorbed in or at the
    house.

    Any surge protector that is damaged was grossly undersized
    and provides no effective protection. Just like a wire, an
    MOV must be sufficiently sized (large enough in joules) to
    shunt a direct strike without being damaged. Just another
    problem with plug-in protectors. They are often undersized.
    The myth purveyor will claim, "my surge protector vaporized to
    protect my computer". It is another myth. The only surge
    protector that protects is a protector that remains intact
    after the surge; so the owner never knows a surge even
    existed.

    Returning to the original post - that Belkin does not even
    claim to provide protection. Read Belkin's own specs. Earth
    ground not even mentioned. No earth ground means no effective
    protection. To be equivalent to a minimally sized 1000 joule
    'whole house' protector, that Belkin also must be at least
    3000 joules. I believe that Belkin is only a pathetic 860
    joules. Just another reason why the Belkin does not provide
    effective protection - yet costs more money.

    These are damning numbers. Numbers that myth purveyors must
    avoid or typically don't even understand. Just another reason
    why the RJ45 connector is completely irrelevant to computer
    protection. Connect computer directly to router. Have same
    protection without a degraded network signal.

    Palindr?me wrote:
    > We (UK) differentiate between transient suppression, where
    > the amount of excess energy is small and can be absorbed
    > locally by something getting hot, and surge suppression -
    > where the excess energy could not be absorbed locally
    > without being dissipated in a shower of molten metal and
    > ionised gas.
    >
    > If you want to get rid of excess energy, the choices are
    > into producing molten metal and white hot gases within the
    > enclosure, or dumping it into the user, or the house power
    > rails (and everything connected to them) or into the ground
    > wire. It is not unusual to get the first three all together,
    > without surge protection bonded to a good earth.
    >
    > So, FWIW, I agree with you. If people don't, just ask them
    > where they want the escess energy to go...
    w_tom, May 4, 2004
    #20
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