Epson printers and lightfastness measurements

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Mike, Dec 15, 2003.

  1. Mike

    Mike Guest

    I was on the Epson site looking at printers and thinking about getting
    myself a 1290 for Christmas, when I saw their lightfastness
    measurements. What I can't figure out - why would the 2100 produce
    photos that can last 75 years, while the 1290 can only produce photos
    that last 20? This is using the same paper.

    Do they only sell their better inks in the cartriges for the 2100? Is
    the 2100 magically better at producing a long-life image? Is this just
    marketing FUD? I'm a bit perplexed. Any ideas?

    cheers,
    Mike
    Mike, Dec 15, 2003
    #1
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  2. Mike

    Steve Young Guest

    > "Mike" <> wrote
    > I was on the Epson site looking at printers and thinking about getting
    > myself a 1290 for Christmas, when I saw their lightfastness
    > measurements. What I can't figure out - why would the 2100 produce
    > photos that can last 75 years, while the 1290 can only produce photos
    > that last 20? This is using the same paper.
    >
    > Do they only sell their better inks in the cartriges for the 2100? Is
    > the 2100 magically better at producing a long-life image?


    > Is this just marketing FUD? I'm a bit perplexed. Any ideas?


    No, in this case, it's the difference between a dye based ink of the 1290 and
    pigment based inks of the 2100/2200. 2 very different chemistries.
    Steve Young, Dec 15, 2003
    #2
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  3. Life depends on the ink and the paper. The two work as a team. Putting
    the ink on the paper takes a printer and the printer has to be designed to
    work with the ink. The pigment and dye inks take different methods to be
    put on the paper. They might be able to make a printer that will work well
    with both, but don't expect to be able to just change inks and get a good
    product.

    --
    Joseph E. Meehan

    26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


    "Mike" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I was on the Epson site looking at printers and thinking about getting
    > myself a 1290 for Christmas, when I saw their lightfastness
    > measurements. What I can't figure out - why would the 2100 produce
    > photos that can last 75 years, while the 1290 can only produce photos
    > that last 20? This is using the same paper.
    >
    > Do they only sell their better inks in the cartriges for the 2100? Is
    > the 2100 magically better at producing a long-life image? Is this just
    > marketing FUD? I'm a bit perplexed. Any ideas?
    >
    > cheers,
    > Mike
    Joseph Meehan, Dec 16, 2003
    #3
  4. Mike

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: (Mike)

    >I was on the Epson site looking at printers and thinking about getting
    >myself a 1290 for Christmas, when I saw their lightfastness
    >measurements. What I can't figure out - why would the 2100 produce
    >photos that can last 75 years, while the 1290 can only produce photos
    >that last 20?


    Pigment inks for the 2200/2100, dye inks for the 1290.
    Bill Hilton, Dec 16, 2003
    #4
  5. Mike

    Tony Spadaro Guest

    Different inks.

    --
    http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
    home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
    The Improved Links Pages are at
    http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
    A sample chapter from my novel "Haight-Ashbury" is at
    http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
    "Mike" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I was on the Epson site looking at printers and thinking about getting
    > myself a 1290 for Christmas, when I saw their lightfastness
    > measurements. What I can't figure out - why would the 2100 produce
    > photos that can last 75 years, while the 1290 can only produce photos
    > that last 20? This is using the same paper.
    >
    > Do they only sell their better inks in the cartriges for the 2100? Is
    > the 2100 magically better at producing a long-life image? Is this just
    > marketing FUD? I'm a bit perplexed. Any ideas?
    >
    > cheers,
    > Mike
    Tony Spadaro, Dec 16, 2003
    #5
  6. Mike

    Mike Guest

    "Tony Spadaro" <> wrote in message news:<W_vDb.154188$>...
    > Different inks.
    >
    > --
    > http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
    > home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto


    Thanks for all the posts that pointed out that only the 2100 uses the
    pigment inks that are so good for long life prints. Is the Epson 2100
    the only printer in it's price range that uses these sorts of inks?

    cheers,
    Mike
    Mike, Dec 16, 2003
    #6
  7. Mike

    Ted Johnson Guest

    Sort of <G>! It is the only photoquality printer that uses the Ultrachrome
    pigment inks currently available. In fact, the C80, 82, 84 series also used
    similar pigmented inks but only has the matt black ink available so it is
    only suitable for matt papers.

    However, Epson has a new model coming out in about 60 days (the R800) which
    uses the same inks and will be much cheaper (it only has an 8.5" carriage,
    though). You might check out some previews of the R800 which are being
    bandied about on the Internet "as we speak"...

    Regards,
    <TED>


    "Mike" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Tony Spadaro" <> wrote in message

    news:<W_vDb.154188$>...
    > > Different inks.
    > >
    > > --
    > > http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
    > > home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto

    >
    > Thanks for all the posts that pointed out that only the 2100 uses the
    > pigment inks that are so good for long life prints. Is the Epson 2100
    > the only printer in it's price range that uses these sorts of inks?
    >
    > cheers,
    > Mike
    Ted Johnson, Dec 16, 2003
    #7
  8. Mike

    Scroobie Guest

    On 15 Dec 2003 14:07:51 -0800, (Mike) wrote:

    >I was on the Epson site looking at printers and thinking about getting
    >myself a 1290 for Christmas, when I saw their lightfastness
    >measurements. What I can't figure out - why would the 2100 produce
    >photos that can last 75 years, while the 1290 can only produce photos
    >that last 20? This is using the same paper.
    >
    >Do they only sell their better inks in the cartriges for the 2100? Is
    >the 2100 magically better at producing a long-life image? Is this just
    >marketing FUD? I'm a bit perplexed. Any ideas?
    >
    >cheers,
    >Mike

    Analine dyes have always been regarded as fugitive to some degree,
    often a function of the particular hue. Dyes are solutions, and so
    are homogeneous and not prone to settle. Pigment inks such as are
    used in many modern printers such as the Epson 2100/2200 and a few
    others are quite different by nature, and are generally regarded as
    having greater permanence -- again, the ability to resist fading can
    be a function of the particular pigments used, but most pigments are
    relatively lightfast. On that basis, the most permanent pigment
    around would have to be Epson's matte black that appears to be little
    more than carbon black and a small amount of binder. Since they are
    not solutions, most pigment inks have the unwanted characteristic of
    settling, and this causes the various Epson inks (and presumably
    others) to have relatively short shelf lives. It's amazing to
    consider that pigments could be ground finely enough to pass through
    micron-size nozzles.
    Scroobie, Dec 17, 2003
    #8
  9. Mike

    Mark Herring Guest

    On 16 Dec 2003 13:23:41 -0800, (Mike) wrote:

    >"Tony Spadaro" <> wrote in message news:<W_vDb.154188$>...
    >> Different inks.
    >>
    >> --
    >> http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
    >> home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto

    >
    >Thanks for all the posts that pointed out that only the 2100 uses the
    >pigment inks that are so good for long life prints. Is the Epson 2100
    >the only printer in it's price range that uses these sorts of inks?
    >
    >cheers,
    >Mike


    You can get 3rd party archival (pigment) ink from a variety of
    sources. eg MIS (www.inksupply.com), Medistreet, Lyson, and more

    Google search will find others
    **************************
    Mark Herring, Pasadena, Calif.
    Private e-mail: Just say no to "No".
    Mark Herring, Dec 17, 2003
    #9
  10. Mike

    Canopus Guest

    "Tony Spadaro" <> wrote in message
    news:W_vDb.154188$...
    > Different inks.
    >
    > --
    >
    >
    >


    Excuse me if I sound ignorant, but, if it's just a matter of different inks
    then why can't we get cartridges with the good inks in for other Epson
    printers? For instance, I have the Photo 830 and I would have thought it
    would be possible to have a cartridge which fits it with the good, long
    lasting ink in. Do these long lasting inks also need a different, more
    expensive paper and does this different paper only fit printers that can use
    these high quality inks?

    Rob
    Canopus, Dec 18, 2003
    #10
  11. Mike

    Mark Herring Guest

    On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 19:52:00 -0000, "Canopus"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Tony Spadaro" <> wrote in message
    >news:W_vDb.154188$...
    >> Different inks.
    >>
    >> --
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Excuse me if I sound ignorant, but, if it's just a matter of different inks
    >then why can't we get cartridges with the good inks in for other Epson
    >printers? For instance, I have the Photo 830 and I would have thought it
    >would be possible to have a cartridge which fits it with the good, long
    >lasting ink in. Do these long lasting inks also need a different, more
    >expensive paper and does this different paper only fit printers that can use
    >these high quality inks?
    >
    >Rob
    >

    You can get all manner of 3rd party inks for Epson printers:

    MIS( www.inksupply.com)
    Mediastreet
    Lyson

    Do a Google search on ink jet supplies, ink jet ink, ink jet
    cartfirdges, etc.
    **************************
    Mark Herring, Pasadena, Calif.
    Private e-mail: Just say no to "No".
    Mark Herring, Dec 18, 2003
    #11
  12. Mike

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: "Canopus"

    >Do these long lasting inks also need a different, more
    >expensive paper and does this different paper only fit printers that can use
    >these high quality inks?


    Some of the papers work on both the 1280 (dye) and 2200 (pigment), but not all,
    like PGPP or Semi-gloss. Some papers only work well on one printer/ink combo
    or the other, not both, like ColorLife for the 1280 and its counterpart Premium
    Luster for the 2200. Some of the 2200 papers have no counterpart with the
    1280, like Watercolor - Radiant White and Velvet Fine Art, which require a
    different black ink and would look very dull on the 1280 inks.

    Here's a link showing the papers than print well across different ink sets,
    with the different estimated print longevity numbers. Some of the 2200 papers
    are priced the same as their 1280 counterparts

    http://www.inkjetart.com/news/longevity/index.html

    > if it's just a matter of different inks then why can't we get cartridges
    > with the good inks in for other Epson printers?


    The inks and the printers are designed as a pair, you can't just put pigment
    inks from the 2200 into a 1280, for example.

    Bill
    Bill Hilton, Dec 18, 2003
    #12
  13. Mike

    Canopus Guest

    "Bill Hilton" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >From: "Canopus"

    >
    > >Do these long lasting inks also need a different, more
    > >expensive paper and does this different paper only fit printers that can

    use
    > >these high quality inks?

    >
    > Some of the papers work on both the 1280 (dye) and 2200 (pigment), but not

    all,
    > like PGPP or Semi-gloss. Some papers only work well on one printer/ink

    combo
    > or the other, not both, like ColorLife for the 1280 and its counterpart

    Premium
    > Luster for the 2200. Some of the 2200 papers have no counterpart with the
    > 1280, like Watercolor - Radiant White and Velvet Fine Art, which require a
    > different black ink and would look very dull on the 1280 inks.
    >
    > Here's a link showing the papers than print well across different ink

    sets,
    > with the different estimated print longevity numbers. Some of the 2200

    papers
    > are priced the same as their 1280 counterparts
    >
    > http://www.inkjetart.com/news/longevity/index.html
    >
    > > if it's just a matter of different inks then why can't we get cartridges
    > > with the good inks in for other Epson printers?

    >
    > The inks and the printers are designed as a pair, you can't just put

    pigment
    > inks from the 2200 into a 1280, for example.
    >
    > Bill
    >
    >


    Hmmm!... 27 years life for my pictures then. Well, looks like they'll out
    live me at least, if not I'll probably be too do lally by then to notice
    :=((

    Rob
    Canopus, Dec 19, 2003
    #13
  14. Mike

    John Horner Guest

    "Mike" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I was on the Epson site looking at printers and thinking about getting
    > myself a 1290 for Christmas, when I saw their lightfastness
    > measurements. What I can't figure out - why would the 2100 produce
    > photos that can last 75 years, while the 1290 can only produce photos
    > that last 20? This is using the same paper.



    Different inks. The 2100/2200 uses Epsons latest pigment ink system.

    John
    John Horner, Dec 22, 2003
    #14
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