EOS Film user needs help for first DSLR

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Ged, Aug 8, 2004.

  1. Ged

    Ged Guest

    Guys
    >
    > Firstly, apologies if this has been asked before..I've searched hi
    > and low through the groups and still can't make up my mind.
    >
    > I've been using my Canon eos 50e (film) for the last 3 years - bought it
    > 2nd hand. I purchased a canon ixus v3 about 20 months ago and have
    > been using it a lot ( mainly at days out and nights in the
    > pub/clubs)..I love the flexibility of it, using photoshop to play
    > with the images and have decided to take the plunge.
    >
    > I've held both the 300D and 10D in a local Jessops and definitely
    > like the weight and " solidness " of the 10D. The local costs in the UK

    (even with internet price matching ) are circa £650( 300D ) and
    > £960(10D) - A BIG difference for what may be some mainly redundant
    > features. ( For me )
    >
    > I am very much a point and shoot guy. I haven't used the custom
    > features all the time on the old SLR and tend to take more photos
    > using the green dummy square than anything else...Having said that,
    > i do enjoy the flexibility of playing with aperture and time
    > priortiy and do enjoy playing with the metering.
    >
    > I have 2 main lenses for the old film slr - a canon 85mm 1.4 prime
    > ( which i love for portrait work ) and a Tamron 28 -200 zoom..
    > Given the 85 mm will become effectively a 133 zoom when i stick it
    > onto a DSLR then i'm not sure if having a couple of lenses would
    > keep me canon.
    >
    > So, is the 300D the best camera for me as I always tend to try and
    > future proof technical purchases by buying " up the ladder"..I want
    > the 10D, but find it hard pushed to spend hundreds of pounds more
    > for features i wont use.. Finally, given the reports of a new 10D
    > coming out( I know its speculative ) I'm not sure wether to wait
    > for another 5 months to see prices plummet ?
    >
    > I've always been a Canon fan but ( and don't kill me for this ) the Nikon
    > D70 appears to fall between the 2 canon models mainly for the
    > metering purposes and AI focus flexibility..Is it as good in
    > comparison on other features?
    >
    > Any tips or pointer would be great. I do appreciate the final
    > choice depends on me but for once i'm trying to make the decision
    > via a practical approach and not with my heart! :)
    >
    > Thanks again
    >
    > Ged
     
    Ged, Aug 8, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Ged

    George Guest

    "Ged" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Guys
    > >
    > > Firstly, apologies if this has been asked before..I've searched hi
    > > and low through the groups and still can't make up my mind.
    > >
    > > I've been using my Canon eos 50e (film) for the last 3 years - bought it
    > > 2nd hand. I purchased a canon ixus v3 about 20 months ago and have
    > > been using it a lot ( mainly at days out and nights in the
    > > pub/clubs)..I love the flexibility of it, using photoshop to play
    > > with the images and have decided to take the plunge.
    > >
    > > I've held both the 300D and 10D in a local Jessops and definitely
    > > like the weight and " solidness " of the 10D. The local costs in the UK

    > (even with internet price matching ) are circa £650( 300D ) and
    > > £960(10D) - A BIG difference for what may be some mainly redundant
    > > features. ( For me )
    > >
    > > I am very much a point and shoot guy. I haven't used the custom
    > > features all the time on the old SLR and tend to take more photos
    > > using the green dummy square than anything else...Having said that,
    > > i do enjoy the flexibility of playing with aperture and time
    > > priortiy and do enjoy playing with the metering.
    > >
    > > I have 2 main lenses for the old film slr - a canon 85mm 1.4 prime
    > > ( which i love for portrait work ) and a Tamron 28 -200 zoom..
    > > Given the 85 mm will become effectively a 133 zoom when i stick it
    > > onto a DSLR then i'm not sure if having a couple of lenses would
    > > keep me canon.
    > >
    > > So, is the 300D the best camera for me as I always tend to try and
    > > future proof technical purchases by buying " up the ladder"..I want
    > > the 10D, but find it hard pushed to spend hundreds of pounds more
    > > for features i wont use.. Finally, given the reports of a new 10D
    > > coming out( I know its speculative ) I'm not sure wether to wait
    > > for another 5 months to see prices plummet ?
    > >
    > > I've always been a Canon fan but ( and don't kill me for this ) the

    Nikon
    > > D70 appears to fall between the 2 canon models mainly for the
    > > metering purposes and AI focus flexibility..Is it as good in
    > > comparison on other features?
    > >
    > > Any tips or pointer would be great. I do appreciate the final
    > > choice depends on me but for once i'm trying to make the decision
    > > via a practical approach and not with my heart! :)
    > >
    > > Thanks again
    > >
    > > Ged


    Let me leave you with a few thoughts that might help you make your decision:
    1) Housing and car prices go up. Electronics prices come down. Digital
    cameras are electronics.
    2) Photokina occurs in the fall and that is when most manufacturers choose
    to announce new models...they usually hit the US store shelves in the
    spring. If you want newer technology in your camera, buy the new models in
    the spring (won't be much of a discount available). Or, if you like current
    cameras, buy them in the spring when they become less desirable due to newer
    models and must be cleared out at higher discounts.
    3) Unless your camera is making money for you (or you're a "money no
    object" sort of buyer), buy the least expensive camera that fills your
    needs. Digital cameras are still changing rapidly and chances are high that
    you'll be lusting after a different camera in less than two years...the
    money you save on THIS purchase can help you buy THAT camera. Don't count
    on getting much out of your old digital camera...when you don't want it any
    more it is very likely that no one else will either.
    4) Finally, know WHEN a product is available that meets your requirements
    and falls within your price range and BUY IT. Don't keep waiting to buy for
    the price to drop (that'll always happen) or you'll never take any photos.

    I do know how you feel. I unexpectedly bought a DSLR back this spring when
    Nikon's D70 came out. It isn't everything I wanted in a DSLR (I knew that
    BEFORE purchasing) but it is about 75-80% of what I wanted and in the price
    range that fell below my pain threshold. Originally, I thought it'd be
    about 2 more years before what I wanted was out (6+Mp, full frame sensor,
    Nikon lenses, metering with all Nikon lenses, and less than $1500).

    Good luck.
     
    George, Aug 9, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. (Ged) wrote in message news:<>...
    > Guys
    > >
    > > Firstly, apologies if this has been asked before..I've searched hi
    > > and low through the groups and still can't make up my mind.
    > >
    > > I've been using my Canon eos 50e (film) for the last 3 years - bought it
    > > 2nd hand. I purchased a canon ixus v3 about 20 months ago and have
    > > been using it a lot ( mainly at days out and nights in the
    > > pub/clubs)..I love the flexibility of it, using photoshop to play
    > > with the images and have decided to take the plunge.
    > >
    > > I've held both the 300D and 10D in a local Jessops and definitely
    > > like the weight and " solidness " of the 10D. The local costs in the UK

    > (even with internet price matching ) are circa £650( 300D ) and
    > > £960(10D) - A BIG difference for what may be some mainly redundant
    > > features. ( For me )
    > >
    > > I am very much a point and shoot guy. I haven't used the custom
    > > features all the time on the old SLR and tend to take more photos
    > > using the green dummy square than anything else...Having said that,
    > > i do enjoy the flexibility of playing with aperture and time
    > > priortiy and do enjoy playing with the metering.
    > >
    > > I have 2 main lenses for the old film slr - a canon 85mm 1.4 prime
    > > ( which i love for portrait work ) and a Tamron 28 -200 zoom..
    > > Given the 85 mm will become effectively a 133 zoom when i stick it
    > > onto a DSLR then i'm not sure if having a couple of lenses would
    > > keep me canon.
    > >
    > > So, is the 300D the best camera for me as I always tend to try and
    > > future proof technical purchases by buying " up the ladder"..I want
    > > the 10D, but find it hard pushed to spend hundreds of pounds more
    > > for features i wont use.. Finally, given the reports of a new 10D
    > > coming out( I know its speculative ) I'm not sure wether to wait
    > > for another 5 months to see prices plummet ?
    > >
    > > I've always been a Canon fan but ( and don't kill me for this ) the Nikon
    > > D70 appears to fall between the 2 canon models mainly for the
    > > metering purposes and AI focus flexibility..Is it as good in
    > > comparison on other features?
    > >
    > > Any tips or pointer would be great. I do appreciate the final
    > > choice depends on me but for once i'm trying to make the decision
    > > via a practical approach and not with my heart! :)
    > >
    > > Thanks again
    > >
    > > Ged


    Ged,

    I purchased a 10D a year ago and am not pleased with the images
    yielded by the camera. Exposure, even with partial metering, is all
    over the place; highlight detail is able to be preserved only at the
    expense of shadow detail and added noise. The images from my camera
    lack critical sharpness directly from the camera and when
    post-processed in Photoshop with filters and/or unsharp mask. The
    sharpness thing is what really bothers me the most. The sharpest
    focus is exactly where I focus but the focus itself is not sharp
    enough for my standards. I'm off digital completely, though there are
    situations faced by other photographers wherein the instant results
    are necessary, I don't need instant images for my photography. In my
    opinion and for my purpose film is better. Still, if the need for
    digital were to present itself in the future, I would certainly not
    select a 10D or a 300D. Maybe other brands are superior - have a look
    at the D70 - but my experience throughout the course of one year with
    the 10D was in no way positive.

    Michael
     
    street shooter, Aug 9, 2004
    #3
  4. In article <>,
    says...
    > (Ged) wrote in message news:<>...
    > > Guys
    > > >
    > > > Firstly, apologies if this has been asked before..I've searched hi
    > > > and low through the groups and still can't make up my mind.
    > > >
    > > > I've been using my Canon eos 50e (film) for the last 3 years - boughtit
    > > > 2nd hand. I purchased a canon ixus v3 about 20 months ago and have
    > > > been using it a lot ( mainly at days out and nights in the
    > > > pub/clubs)..I love the flexibility of it, using photoshop to play
    > > > with the images and have decided to take the plunge.
    > > >
    > > > I've held both the 300D and 10D in a local Jessops and definitely
    > > > like the weight and " solidness " of the 10D. The local costs in the UK

    > > (even with internet price matching ) are circa £650( 300D ) and
    > > > £960(10D) - A BIG difference for what may be some mainly redundant
    > > > features. ( For me )
    > > >
    > > > I am very much a point and shoot guy. I haven't used the custom
    > > > features all the time on the old SLR and tend to take more photos
    > > > using the green dummy square than anything else...Having said that,
    > > > i do enjoy the flexibility of playing with aperture and time
    > > > priortiy and do enjoy playing with the metering.
    > > >
    > > > I have 2 main lenses for the old film slr - a canon 85mm 1.4 prime
    > > > ( which i love for portrait work ) and a Tamron 28 -200 zoom..
    > > > Given the 85 mm will become effectively a 133 zoom when i stick it
    > > > onto a DSLR then i'm not sure if having a couple of lenses would
    > > > keep me canon.
    > > >
    > > > So, is the 300D the best camera for me as I always tend to try and
    > > > future proof technical purchases by buying " up the ladder"..I want
    > > > the 10D, but find it hard pushed to spend hundreds of pounds more
    > > > for features i wont use.. Finally, given the reports of a new 10D
    > > > coming out( I know its speculative ) I'm not sure wether to wait
    > > > for another 5 months to see prices plummet ?
    > > >
    > > > I've always been a Canon fan but ( and don't kill me for this ) the Nikon
    > > > D70 appears to fall between the 2 canon models mainly for the
    > > > metering purposes and AI focus flexibility..Is it as good in
    > > > comparison on other features?
    > > >
    > > > Any tips or pointer would be great. I do appreciate the final
    > > > choice depends on me but for once i'm trying to make the decision
    > > > via a practical approach and not with my heart! :)
    > > >
    > > > Thanks again
    > > >
    > > > Ged

    >
    > Ged,
    >
    > I purchased a 10D a year ago and am not pleased with the images
    > yielded by the camera. Exposure, even with partial metering, is all
    > over the place; highlight detail is able to be preserved only at the
    > expense of shadow detail and added noise. The images from my camera
    > lack critical sharpness directly from the camera and when
    > post-processed in Photoshop with filters and/or unsharp mask. The
    > sharpness thing is what really bothers me the most. The sharpest
    > focus is exactly where I focus but the focus itself is not sharp
    > enough for my standards. I'm off digital completely, though there are
    > situations faced by other photographers wherein the instant results
    > are necessary, I don't need instant images for my photography. In my
    > opinion and for my purpose film is better. Still, if the need for
    > digital were to present itself in the future, I would certainly not
    > select a 10D or a 300D. Maybe other brands are superior - have a look
    > at the D70 - but my experience throughout the course of one year with
    > the 10D was in no way positive.
    >
    > Michael


    *cough* retard *cough*

    --
    http://www.pbase.com/bcbaird/
     
    Brian C. Baird, Aug 9, 2004
    #4
  5. In article <>,
    says...
    > > So, is the 300D the best camera for me as I always tend to try and
    > > future proof technical purchases by buying " up the ladder"..I want
    > > the 10D, but find it hard pushed to spend hundreds of pounds more
    > > for features i wont use.. Finally, given the reports of a new 10D
    > > coming out( I know its speculative ) I'm not sure wether to wait
    > > for another 5 months to see prices plummet ?


    Well, if you can wait five months at any point in time with electronics,
    the price will drop. Can't help you there.

    > > I've always been a Canon fan but ( and don't kill me for this ) the Nikon
    > > D70 appears to fall between the 2 canon models mainly for the
    > > metering purposes and AI focus flexibility..Is it as good in
    > > comparison on other features?


    The D70 is nice, but you'll have to ditch your current lenses for Nikon.
    Not a biggy since you only have two lenses, but if you *love* your
    current lenses it could be an issue.

    The 300D is probably the camera you want - you'll be able to do manual
    modes with no problem, and the firmware can be "hacked" (at your own
    risk) to give you mirror lockup and a couple of other handy features of
    the 10D. It's light, inexpensive and the image quality is just as good
    as the 10D.
    --
    http://www.pbase.com/bcbaird/
     
    Brian C. Baird, Aug 9, 2004
    #5
  6. Ged

    gsum Guest

    Either your camera is faulty or you haven't learned how to use
    it properly. You should be able to get far better results
    than with 'equivalent' 35mm film e.g. Provia100. In addition,
    many of your complaints e.g. metering, are common to
    film cameras, so why should that put you off digital?


    Graham


    "street shooter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > (Ged) wrote in message

    news:<>...
    >
    > I purchased a 10D a year ago and am not pleased with the images
    > yielded by the camera. Exposure, even with partial metering, is all
    > over the place; highlight detail is able to be preserved only at the
    > expense of shadow detail and added noise. The images from my camera
    > lack critical sharpness directly from the camera and when
    > post-processed in Photoshop with filters and/or unsharp mask. The
    > sharpness thing is what really bothers me the most. The sharpest
    > focus is exactly where I focus but the focus itself is not sharp
    > enough for my standards. I'm off digital completely, though there are
    > situations faced by other photographers wherein the instant results
    > are necessary, I don't need instant images for my photography. In my
    > opinion and for my purpose film is better. Still, if the need for
    > digital were to present itself in the future, I would certainly not
    > select a 10D or a 300D. Maybe other brands are superior - have a look
    > at the D70 - but my experience throughout the course of one year with
    > the 10D was in no way positive.
    >
    > Michael
     
    gsum, Aug 9, 2004
    #6
  7. In article <>, street
    shooter <> writes
    > (Ged) wrote in message
    >news:<>...
    >> Guys
    >> >
    >> > Firstly, apologies if this has been asked before..I've searched hi
    >> > and low through the groups and still can't make up my mind.
    >> >


    [snip]
    >> >
    >> > So, is the 300D the best camera for me as I always tend to try and
    >> > future proof technical purchases by buying " up the ladder"..I want
    >> > the 10D, but find it hard pushed to spend hundreds of pounds more
    >> > for features i wont use.. Finally, given the reports of a new 10D
    >> > coming out( I know its speculative ) I'm not sure wether to wait
    >> > for another 5 months to see prices plummet ?
    >> >
    >> > I've always been a Canon fan but ( and don't kill me for this ) the Nikon
    >> > D70 appears to fall between the 2 canon models mainly for the
    >> > metering purposes and AI focus flexibility..Is it as good in
    >> > comparison on other features?
    >> >
    >> > Any tips or pointer would be great. I do appreciate the final
    >> > choice depends on me but for once i'm trying to make the decision
    >> > via a practical approach and not with my heart! :)
    >> >
    >> > Thanks again
    >> >
    >> > Ged

    >
    >Ged,
    >
    >I purchased a 10D a year ago and am not pleased with the images
    >yielded by the camera. Exposure, even with partial metering, is all
    >over the place; highlight detail is able to be preserved only at the
    >expense of shadow detail and added noise. The images from my camera
    >lack critical sharpness directly from the camera and when
    >post-processed in Photoshop with filters and/or unsharp mask. The
    >sharpness thing is what really bothers me the most. The sharpest
    >focus is exactly where I focus but the focus itself is not sharp
    >enough for my standards. I'm off digital completely, though there are
    >situations faced by other photographers wherein the instant results
    >are necessary, I don't need instant images for my photography. In my
    >opinion and for my purpose film is better. Still, if the need for
    >digital were to present itself in the future, I would certainly not
    >select a 10D or a 300D. Maybe other brands are superior - have a look
    >at the D70 - but my experience throughout the course of one year with
    >the 10D was in no way positive.
    >
    >Michael


    I am surprised you have had this problem, and wonder if your camera is
    faulty.

    I bought a 10D last year and have been impressed with how good the
    images are. Without having done any quantitative tests, I would say the
    results (just) beat scanned 35mm film (I usually use Provia 100F) but
    don't match careful direct prints from 35mm.

    In case it occurs to you to suggest that I am applying low standards, I
    usually use 120 or 5x4 if I am looking for the highest quality.

    One thing to be aware of is that by default the 10D applies little
    in-camera sharpening. Thus the images "au naturel" appear at first
    glance a little soft compared with (often over-sharpened) images from
    compact digitals.

    I have not found exposure any more trying than with any other camera,
    and in RAW I have found there is in practice a little more leeway than
    with reversal film. Maybe a slight tendency to underexpose with flash
    shots; just needs getting used to.

    To the OP, I can't honestly give you a comparison of the 10D/300D with
    the Nikon D70; like most people, I don't use both systems. All I can say
    is that I think you will find the image quality from the two Canon
    cameras as good as any you can get without paying many thousands. From
    what you say - forgive me if I have misread the position - your needs do
    not demand the extra features of the 10D and you should be perfectly
    happy with the 300D. However, that is ultimately a question only you can
    answer.

    David
    --
    David Littlewood
     
    David Littlewood, Aug 9, 2004
    #7
  8. Because I get consistantly better results in every aspect (sharpness,
    metering, et al) of my photography with my film cameras. BTW, I use
    the same lens on both film and digital cameras - the Canon EF 28/2.8.

    Michael

    "gsum" <> wrote in message news:<411777ef$>...
    > Either your camera is faulty or you haven't learned how to use
    > it properly. You should be able to get far better results
    > than with 'equivalent' 35mm film e.g. Provia100. In addition,
    > many of your complaints e.g. metering, are common to
    > film cameras, so why should that put you off digital?
    >
    >
    > Graham
    >
    >
    > "street shooter" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > (Ged) wrote in message

    > news:<>...
    > >
    > > I purchased a 10D a year ago and am not pleased with the images
    > > yielded by the camera. Exposure, even with partial metering, is all
    > > over the place; highlight detail is able to be preserved only at the
    > > expense of shadow detail and added noise. The images from my camera
    > > lack critical sharpness directly from the camera and when
    > > post-processed in Photoshop with filters and/or unsharp mask. The
    > > sharpness thing is what really bothers me the most. The sharpest
    > > focus is exactly where I focus but the focus itself is not sharp
    > > enough for my standards. I'm off digital completely, though there are
    > > situations faced by other photographers wherein the instant results
    > > are necessary, I don't need instant images for my photography. In my
    > > opinion and for my purpose film is better. Still, if the need for
    > > digital were to present itself in the future, I would certainly not
    > > select a 10D or a 300D. Maybe other brands are superior - have a look
    > > at the D70 - but my experience throughout the course of one year with
    > > the 10D was in no way positive.
    > >
    > > Michael
     
    street shooter, Aug 9, 2004
    #8
  9. Ged

    Ged Guest

    >
    > I am surprised you have had this problem, and wonder if your camera is
    > faulty.
    >
    > I bought a 10D last year and have been impressed with how good the
    > images are. Without having done any quantitative tests, I would say the
    > results (just) beat scanned 35mm film (I usually use Provia 100F) but
    > don't match careful direct prints from 35mm.
    >
    > In case it occurs to you to suggest that I am applying low standards, I
    > usually use 120 or 5x4 if I am looking for the highest quality.
    >
    > One thing to be aware of is that by default the 10D applies little
    > in-camera sharpening. Thus the images "au naturel" appear at first
    > glance a little soft compared with (often over-sharpened) images from
    > compact digitals.
    >
    > I have not found exposure any more trying than with any other camera,
    > and in RAW I have found there is in practice a little more leeway than
    > with reversal film. Maybe a slight tendency to underexpose with flash
    > shots; just needs getting used to.
    >
    > To the OP, I can't honestly give you a comparison of the 10D/300D with
    > the Nikon D70; like most people, I don't use both systems. All I can say
    > is that I think you will find the image quality from the two Canon
    > cameras as good as any you can get without paying many thousands. From
    > what you say - forgive me if I have misread the position - your needs do
    > not demand the extra features of the 10D and you should be perfectly
    > happy with the 300D. However, that is ultimately a question only you can
    > answer.
    >
    > David


    Thanks for all the help and pointers.. I'm also coming around to the
    fact that the 300d will see me through the next 2 to 3 years with
    decent results..If I'm more the wiser at that time then no doubt will
    upgrade to the latest and greatest then.

    Once again, thankyou for your expert advice everyone :)

    Ged
     
    Ged, Aug 9, 2004
    #9
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