EOS 400d opinions sought.

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by AWroe, Jul 13, 2007.

  1. AWroe

    AWroe Guest

    Hi All,

    I'm new to this forum and just about to purchase my first DSLR camera
    (upgrading from a Fuji s5000). I'm pretty much set on the Canon EOS
    400d but I've heard that that 18-55mm lens which comes with it is a
    bit of a dog.

    My thoughts are to buy the camera body only and then get a couple of
    3rd larty lenses, one at 18-55mm or similar and one at 70-300mm or
    similar. The obvious choices are available in the Sigma and Tamron
    ranges.

    Your ideas / experiences / opinions would be hugely appreciated.

    Allan.
    AWroe, Jul 13, 2007
    #1
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  2. AWroe

    Pete D Guest

    "AWroe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I'm new to this forum and just about to purchase my first DSLR camera
    > (upgrading from a Fuji s5000). I'm pretty much set on the Canon EOS
    > 400d but I've heard that that 18-55mm lens which comes with it is a
    > bit of a dog.
    >
    > My thoughts are to buy the camera body only and then get a couple of
    > 3rd larty lenses, one at 18-55mm or similar and one at 70-300mm or
    > similar. The obvious choices are available in the Sigma and Tamron
    > ranges.
    >
    > Your ideas / experiences / opinions would be hugely appreciated.
    >
    > Allan.
    >


    If you think you will get 3rd party lenses then don't get a Canon, ever. If
    you absolutely must get a 400D then get only Canon lenses, fullstop, the
    end.

    Otherwise go for either a D80 Nikon or K10D Pentax.

    Did you actually go and handle one in the shop, in my view and for me I
    would never be happy with the little cheapy Canons, they just feel like
    crap, ergonomics of the D80 and K10D are streets ahead.

    Cheers.

    Pete
    Pete D, Jul 13, 2007
    #2
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  3. AWroe

    Marutchi Guest

    Pete D wrote:

    > If you think you will get 3rd party lenses then don't get a Canon,
    > ever. If you absolutely must get a 400D then get only Canon lenses,
    > fullstop, the end.


    Why?

    > Otherwise go for either a D80 Nikon or K10D Pentax.
    >
    > Did you actually go and handle one in the shop, in my view and for me
    > I would never be happy with the little cheapy Canons, they just feel
    > like crap, ergonomics of the D80 and K10D are streets ahead.
    >


    In your opinion, of course.
    Marutchi, Jul 13, 2007
    #3
  4. AWroe

    Matalog Guest

    "AWroe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I'm new to this forum and just about to purchase my first DSLR camera
    > (upgrading from a Fuji s5000). I'm pretty much set on the Canon EOS
    > 400d but I've heard that that 18-55mm lens which comes with it is a
    > bit of a dog.
    >
    > My thoughts are to buy the camera body only and then get a couple of
    > 3rd larty lenses, one at 18-55mm or similar and one at 70-300mm or
    > similar. The obvious choices are available in the Sigma and Tamron
    > ranges.
    >
    > Your ideas / experiences / opinions would be hugely appreciated.
    >
    > Allan.


    I had the Fuji s9500 or s9000 and I upgraded to the 400d.

    It is a much better camera. The image quality is a lot better.

    I bought a sigma 17-70mm lens and it works great with the camera and also
    gives much better image quality than my old camera.

    I also got the Canon 70-300mm IS (image stabilizing) lens and this is just
    incredible, I have never used IS before.




    >
    Matalog, Jul 13, 2007
    #4
  5. AWroe

    AWroe Guest

    Point taken re-the Canon lenses but one of the reasons for choosing
    the Canon is that you are not fixed on their lenses as you would be
    with a Nikon D40x. I think competition is a good thing!!

    I had read somewhere that there can occasionally be software issues
    between the camera and the Sigma lenses but that Sigma are constantly
    working on this and will put things right for you FOC.

    "Otherwise go for either a D80 Nikon or K10D Pentax"

    Thing here is, the D80 is comparable camera but at a higher price and
    I've been told by many sources that the Pentax is not very good at
    all.


    "Did you actually go and handle one in the shop, in my view and for me
    I
    would never be happy with the little cheapy Canons, they just feel
    like
    crap, ergonomics of the D80 and K10D are streets ahead"

    Yes, I have handled a 400d and a Nikon d40x. I have a Fuji s5000 at
    the moment so I'm used to handling a camera of that size / weight.
    It's not an issue for me.

    Anybody got an opinion on Tamron lenses?
    AWroe, Jul 13, 2007
    #5
  6. AWroe wrote:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I'm new to this forum and just about to purchase my first DSLR camera
    > (upgrading from a Fuji s5000). I'm pretty much set on the Canon EOS
    > 400d but I've heard that that 18-55mm lens which comes with it is a
    > bit of a dog.

    []
    > Your ideas / experiences / opinions would be hugely appreciated.
    >
    > Allan.


    The kit lens with the Nikon D40/D40X is much better than the Canon kit
    lens, and you can add the lightweight 55 - 200mm VR image-stabilised lens
    for extra telephoto at low cost. Canon has nothing similar. Unless you
    already have Canon lenses, you could choose a Nikon, Pentax, Sony DSLR
    instead.

    David
    David J Taylor, Jul 13, 2007
    #6
  7. AWroe

    AWroe Guest


    > The kit lens with the Nikon D40/D40X is much better than the Canon kit
    > lens, and you can add the lightweight 55 - 200mm VR image-stabilised lens
    > for extra telephoto at low cost. Canon has nothing similar. Unless you
    > already have Canon lenses, you could choose a Nikon, Pentax, Sony DSLR
    > instead.
    >
    > David


    So are you suggesting I ditch the Canon idea and go with the Nikon?
    AWroe, Jul 13, 2007
    #7
  8. AWroe wrote:
    >> The kit lens with the Nikon D40/D40X is much better than the Canon
    >> kit lens, and you can add the lightweight 55 - 200mm VR
    >> image-stabilised lens for extra telephoto at low cost. Canon has
    >> nothing similar. Unless you already have Canon lenses, you could
    >> choose a Nikon, Pentax, Sony DSLR instead.
    >>
    >> David

    >
    > So are you suggesting I ditch the Canon idea and go with the Nikon?


    That's too strong - if the handling of the Canon suits you (I take it you
    have held the camera?) then that might be a good enough reason for staying
    with it. I'm suggesting that, if DSLR plus kit lens is what you want to
    purchase, the Nikon may provide a better solution, and may be quite a bit
    cheaper if the 6MP D40 is enough for you. If you are not 100% set on
    Canon, take a look at other makes as well.

    You may also want to ask in the rec.photo-digital.slr-systems newsgroup.

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Jul 13, 2007
    #8
  9. AWroe

    AWroe Guest


    > > So are you suggesting I ditch the Canon idea and go with the Nikon?

    >
    > That's too strong - if the handling of the Canon suits you (I take it you
    > have held the camera?) then that might be a good enough reason for staying
    > with it. I'm suggesting that, if DSLR plus kit lens is what you want to
    > purchase, the Nikon may provide a better solution, and may be quite a bit
    > cheaper if the 6MP D40 is enough for you. If you are not 100% set on
    > Canon, take a look at other makes as well.
    >
    > You may also want to ask in the rec.photo-digital.slr-systems newsgroup.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > David


    I think Canon as a camera is the one that suits me. I like some of the
    features over the D40x such as sensor cleaning, less fussy / faster to
    access menus, not set on the manufacturers lenses etc. It's just that
    I've heard that the stock 18-55mm which comes with it is mediocre at
    best. Hence the probable decision to go with Sigma lenses, at least
    until I can afford the better quality ones.
    AWroe, Jul 13, 2007
    #9
  10. AWroe wrote:
    >>> So are you suggesting I ditch the Canon idea and go with the Nikon?

    >>
    >> That's too strong - if the handling of the Canon suits you (I take
    >> it you have held the camera?) then that might be a good enough
    >> reason for staying with it. I'm suggesting that, if DSLR plus kit
    >> lens is what you want to purchase, the Nikon may provide a better
    >> solution, and may be quite a bit cheaper if the 6MP D40 is enough
    >> for you. If you are not 100% set on Canon, take a look at other
    >> makes as well.
    >>
    >> You may also want to ask in the rec.photo-digital.slr-systems
    >> newsgroup.
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >> David

    >
    > I think Canon as a camera is the one that suits me. I like some of the
    > features over the D40x such as sensor cleaning, less fussy / faster to
    > access menus, not set on the manufacturers lenses etc. It's just that
    > I've heard that the stock 18-55mm which comes with it is mediocre at
    > best. Hence the probable decision to go with Sigma lenses, at least
    > until I can afford the better quality ones.


    I don't know what you mean by "set on the manufacturer's lenses" for
    Nikon - many third-party lenses are available for both brands (Nikon
    D40/D40X does need AF motorised lenses, though). But if the handling of
    the Canon suits you better, that's as good a reason as any for going for
    it. Whether Sigma lenses are better than Canon I will have to let other
    comment.

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Jul 13, 2007
    #10
  11. AWroe

    AWroe Guest


    >
    > I don't know what you mean by "set on the manufacturer's lenses" for
    > Nikon - many third-party lenses are available for both brands (Nikon
    > D40/D40X does need AF motorised lenses, though).


    The sales guy I spoke to said that the Canon can use 3rd party lenses
    easily because the AF motor is in the body of the camera whereas it's
    in the lens with the Nikon. The end result being that 3rd party lenses
    won't autofocus on the D40x.

    As mentioned above, this is my forst foray into buying a DSLR so
    expect I'm showing considerable naivety. Hence the potentially dumb
    questions.
    AWroe, Jul 13, 2007
    #11
  12. AWroe

    Guest

    On 13 Jul, 12:58, AWroe <> wrote:
    > > I don't know what you mean by "set on the manufacturer's lenses" for
    > > Nikon - many third-party lenses are available for both brands (Nikon
    > > D40/D40X does need AF motorised lenses, though).

    >
    > The sales guy I spoke to said that the Canon can use 3rd party lenses
    > easily because the AF motor is in the body of the camera whereas it's
    > in the lens with the Nikon. The end result being that 3rd party lenses
    > won't autofocus on the D40x.
    >
    > As mentioned above, this is my forst foray into buying a DSLR so
    > expect I'm showing considerable naivety. Hence the potentially dumb
    > questions.


    There are plenty of 3rd party lenses available with built in motors.
    , Jul 13, 2007
    #12
  13. AWroe

    Marcin Guest

    I use Canon EOS400D + EFS 17-85 with stabilisator,
    Let my photos show you possibilities of this camera (several pictures where
    taken by Canon A80 (Power Shot series)).
    www.gorgolewski.com
    In my opinion: grip, remote control RC-5 (never RC-1 !!!!!) and fast Compact
    Flash Card are necessary.

    Best wishes
    Martin Gorgolewski







    Uzytkownik "AWroe" <> napisal w wiadomosci
    news:...
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I'm new to this forum and just about to purchase my first DSLR camera
    > (upgrading from a Fuji s5000). I'm pretty much set on the Canon EOS
    > 400d but I've heard that that 18-55mm lens which comes with it is a
    > bit of a dog.
    >
    > My thoughts are to buy the camera body only and then get a couple of
    > 3rd larty lenses, one at 18-55mm or similar and one at 70-300mm or
    > similar. The obvious choices are available in the Sigma and Tamron
    > ranges.
    >
    > Your ideas / experiences / opinions would be hugely appreciated.
    >
    > Allan.
    >
    Marcin, Jul 13, 2007
    #13
  14. AWroe

    jmc Guest

    Suddenly, without warning, AWroe exclaimed (7/13/2007 5:47 PM):
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I'm new to this forum and just about to purchase my first DSLR camera
    > (upgrading from a Fuji s5000). I'm pretty much set on the Canon EOS
    > 400d but I've heard that that 18-55mm lens which comes with it is a
    > bit of a dog.
    >
    > My thoughts are to buy the camera body only and then get a couple of
    > 3rd larty lenses, one at 18-55mm or similar and one at 70-300mm or
    > similar. The obvious choices are available in the Sigma and Tamron
    > ranges.
    >
    > Your ideas / experiences / opinions would be hugely appreciated.
    >
    > Allan.
    >


    I have one, it's my first DSLR as well. I very much like the camera,
    though it took a bit before I started getting decent pictures out of it.

    I have a 17-50mm Tamron lens (no IS). It's good but a bit noisy
    focusing. I also have the Canon 70-300M DO IS USM lens. It's twice as
    expensive as the 75-300mm, but is a good bit shorter (fatter). If you
    like the 400D because you have smaller hands (as I do), have a look at
    the DO lens. It's supposed to be a nearly L- quality lens. I wouldn't
    really know, being a newbie to DSLR, but it's a decent lens and I've
    captured some nice photos with it.

    Here's one:

    http://www.jodi.ws/blog/uploaded_images/parrot6-760913.jpg

    jmc
    jmc, Jul 13, 2007
    #14
  15. AWroe

    Pete D Guest

    "Marutchi" <BarbaraH*REMOVE THIS*@ozdebate.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Pete D wrote:
    >
    >> If you think you will get 3rd party lenses then don't get a Canon,
    >> ever. If you absolutely must get a 400D then get only Canon lenses,
    >> fullstop, the end.

    >
    > Why?


    Well documented that Sigma lenses in particular have issues on Canon bodies,
    do a search on Sigma lens and error99. Canon lenses just work as they are
    supposed to on Canon bodies.

    >> Otherwise go for either a D80 Nikon or K10D Pentax.
    >>
    >> Did you actually go and handle one in the shop, in my view and for me
    >> I would never be happy with the little cheapy Canons, they just feel
    >> like crap, ergonomics of the D80 and K10D are streets ahead.
    >>

    >
    > In your opinion, of course.




    Thats why I said it and did not use someone elses words, you have little
    Canons, used them, tried them, perhaps you should answer the OP and give
    your opinion to him, this one is mine? You like them? Great, then you are
    happy, I am happy for you too.

    The results I have seen from 30D and 5D that a friend is using for portrait
    work (or was til they were stolen a few weeks ago) are excellent, another
    friend showed me shots printed at 12x18 done on a 400D and either he or the
    camera was doing something very wrong yet he thought they were great, just
    shows you that the same thing can look diiferent to different folks.

    Cheers.

    Pete
    Pete D, Jul 13, 2007
    #15
  16. AWroe

    Pete D Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 13 Jul, 12:58, AWroe <> wrote:
    >> > I don't know what you mean by "set on the manufacturer's lenses" for
    >> > Nikon - many third-party lenses are available for both brands (Nikon
    >> > D40/D40X does need AF motorised lenses, though).

    >>
    >> The sales guy I spoke to said that the Canon can use 3rd party lenses
    >> easily because the AF motor is in the body of the camera whereas it's
    >> in the lens with the Nikon. The end result being that 3rd party lenses
    >> won't autofocus on the D40x.
    >>
    >> As mentioned above, this is my forst foray into buying a DSLR so
    >> expect I'm showing considerable naivety. Hence the potentially dumb
    >> questions.

    >
    > There are plenty of 3rd party lenses available with built in motors.


    Yes there sure is, the saleman needs a good smacking here.
    Pete D, Jul 13, 2007
    #16
  17. AWroe

    Marutchi Guest

    Pete D wrote:

    >
    > Well documented that Sigma lenses in particular have issues on Canon
    > bodies, do a search on Sigma lens and error99. Canon lenses just work
    > as they are supposed to on Canon bodies.


    Well Sigma aren't the only other 3rd party lens available. I have one
    Tamron, and it works well on my Canon.

    > Thats why I said it and did not use someone elses words, you have
    > little Canons, used them, tried them, perhaps you should answer the
    > OP and give your opinion to him, this one is mine? You like them?
    > Great, then you are happy, I am happy for you too.


    I don't own, nor have I ever owned a 400D, so cannot make any comments on
    them.


    > The results I have seen from 30D and 5D that a friend is using for
    > portrait work (or was til they were stolen a few weeks ago) are
    > excellent, another friend showed me shots printed at 12x18 done on a
    > 400D and either he or the camera was doing something very wrong yet
    > he thought they were great, just shows you that the same thing can
    > look diiferent to different folks.


    Of course, that's what makes the world go round.
    Marutchi, Jul 13, 2007
    #17
  18. "Marutchi" <BarbaraH*REMOVE THIS*@ozdebate.com> wrote:
    > Pete D wrote:
    >> Well documented that Sigma lenses in particular have issues on Canon
    >> bodies, do a search on Sigma lens and error99. Canon lenses just work
    >> as they are supposed to on Canon bodies.

    >
    > Well Sigma aren't the only other 3rd party lens available. I have one
    > Tamron, and it works well on my Canon.


    As I understand it, the Sigma problem is seriously ancient history. Certain
    older lenses have problems; some of them can be "rechipped", others can't.
    It's only an issue if one is purchasing older lenses.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
    David J. Littleboy, Jul 13, 2007
    #18
  19. AWroe

    Steve B Guest

    "AWroe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Point taken re-the Canon lenses but one of the reasons for choosing
    > the Canon is that you are not fixed on their lenses as you would be
    > with a Nikon D40x. I think competition is a good thing!!
    >
    > I had read somewhere that there can occasionally be software issues
    > between the camera and the Sigma lenses but that Sigma are constantly
    > working on this and will put things right for you FOC.
    >
    > "Otherwise go for either a D80 Nikon or K10D Pentax"
    >
    > Thing here is, the D80 is comparable camera but at a higher price and
    > I've been told by many sources that the Pentax is not very good at
    > all.
    >
    >
    > "Did you actually go and handle one in the shop, in my view and for me
    > I
    > would never be happy with the little cheapy Canons, they just feel
    > like
    > crap, ergonomics of the D80 and K10D are streets ahead"
    >
    > Yes, I have handled a 400d and a Nikon d40x. I have a Fuji s5000 at
    > the moment so I'm used to handling a camera of that size / weight.
    > It's not an issue for me.
    >
    > Anybody got an opinion on Tamron lenses?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >

    The K10D is somewhere between the D80 and D200, it's also got the best RAW
    quality out of the 400d, D80 and K10D.
    Steve B, Jul 13, 2007
    #19
  20. AWroe

    ASAAR Guest

    On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 03:58:29 -0700, AWroe wrote:

    >> I don't know what you mean by "set on the manufacturer's lenses" for
    >> Nikon - many third-party lenses are available for both brands (Nikon
    >> D40/D40X does need AF motorised lenses, though).

    >
    > The sales guy I spoke to said that the Canon can use 3rd party lenses
    > easily because the AF motor is in the body of the camera whereas it's
    > in the lens with the Nikon. The end result being that 3rd party lenses
    > won't autofocus on the D40x.
    >
    > As mentioned above, this is my forst foray into buying a DSLR so
    > expect I'm showing considerable naivety. Hence the potentially dumb
    > questions.


    Don't blame yourself, blame the sales guy. There are several
    third party lenses that have built-in lenses, and now that the D40
    exists, more and more should start appearing. Maybe I'm as mistaken
    as the sales guy, but from what I've read, the Canon bodies are like
    the D40x in that they also don't contain focusing motors. This
    means that they've been making lenses containing motors for a long
    time, so if you buy new Canon lenses or used lenses that aren't too
    old, they'll work with the 400D. Nikon, on the other hand, until
    the D40, has had motors in their DSLR bodies, so they could use both
    types of lenses, those containing motors and those that have none.
    Since the D40 and D40x are Nikon's first DSLRs to omit the motor,
    they will only autofocus with lenses containing motors. Of course
    they'll focus manually, and this probably isn't much of a problem
    with non-motorized wide angle lenses.

    More and more of Nikon's future lenses will have motors, but if
    you need to have a wide assortment of lenses right now, the D40x
    probably wouldn't be a good choice. But that would represent a
    large investment of at least several thousands of dollars. I'd
    think that the vast majority of D40/D40x owners would be well served
    by having only two lenses, the 18-55mm kit lens (or the more
    expensive but better 18-70mm version) and Nikon's new, very nice and
    relatively inexpensive 55-200mm VR lens. As you're upgrading from a
    Fuji S5000 that isn't a recent model (I have the S5100), you don't
    seem like someone that splurges on new photo gear every year or two,
    so the two lenses that you're looking to get should meet your needs
    for many years, whether they come from Nikon, Canon, Pentax or some
    other manufacturer. And if you happen to get the D40x, by the time
    you probably will be looking for an additional lens, it'll be so far
    in the future that you may also be looking to upgrade the D40x to a
    D95x, a D300 or a D400. :)

    Fortunately, you're not looking for a newer, much better P&S,
    which might disappoint, depending on which one you'd select.
    Whether you end up getting a Canon, Nikon, Pentax or Sony DSLR,
    you'll probably be very pleased with whichever one you choose.
    ASAAR, Jul 13, 2007
    #20
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