EOS 20D - impressive stuff

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Bill Hilton, Aug 20, 2004.

  1. Bill Hilton

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: Chris Brown _uce_please.com

    >There are previews up on most of the usual sites now. I must say, Canon seem
    >to have excelled themselves.


    The $1,499 list price caught my eye (wonder if that is the street price too?),
    as did the 5 frames per second.

    Wonder how Nikon will respond. And Minolta can't be too happy either.
    Bill Hilton, Aug 20, 2004
    #1
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  2. Bill Hilton

    Chris Brown Guest

    There are previews up on most of the usual sites now. I must say, Canon seem
    to have excelled themselves. The new AF system with the little joystick
    looks very cool, and the noise performance, being equal to or better than
    the 10D with smaller pixels is very impressive indeed. Looks like there are
    lots of interface improvements and other little niceties over the 10D as
    well.

    It certainly looks like more of an upgrade than the leaked specs suggested,
    but I'll still stick with the 10D. If it had a spot meter, I'd perhaps feel
    differently. Time to settle back down to waiting for a digital EOS 3.
    Chris Brown, Aug 20, 2004
    #2
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  3. Bill Hilton

    Mark B. Guest

    "Chris Brown" <_uce_please.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > There are previews up on most of the usual sites now. I must say, Canon

    seem
    > to have excelled themselves. The new AF system with the little joystick
    > looks very cool, and the noise performance, being equal to or better than
    > the 10D with smaller pixels is very impressive indeed. Looks like there

    are
    > lots of interface improvements and other little niceties over the 10D as
    > well.
    >
    > It certainly looks like more of an upgrade than the leaked specs

    suggested,
    > but I'll still stick with the 10D. If it had a spot meter, I'd perhaps

    feel
    > differently. Time to settle back down to waiting for a digital EOS 3.
    >


    I'm really impressed despite also being a 10D owner. I really like the
    improved frame rate & larger buffer. Other features I like:

    Digic II
    E-TTL II
    Raw, jpg, or Raw + jpg (with the 10D Raw you're forced to choose an embedded
    jpg)
    USB 2.0, although to be honest I think I'll always use a card reader. Could
    be handy if transferring to a laptop lacking built-in card reader
    9 AF points
    New battery/vertical grip with dual power capability

    Although not something I would want to pay extra for, the image verification
    kit is interesting.

    Spot meter would have been nice, but it's not something I can't live w/o.
    Not sure if I'd use a built-in B/W mode, although it's handy that Canon
    included digital color filters.

    I'm not at all surprised it has the 1.6x crop, in fact I've been saying for
    months not to expect the 1.3x.

    Mark
    Mark B., Aug 20, 2004
    #3
  4. "Chris Brown" <_uce_please.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > There are previews up on most of the usual sites now. I must say, Canon

    seem
    > to have excelled themselves. The new AF system with the little joystick
    > looks very cool, and the noise performance, being equal to or better than
    > the 10D with smaller pixels is very impressive indeed. Looks like there

    are
    > lots of interface improvements and other little niceties over the 10D as
    > well.
    >
    > It certainly looks like more of an upgrade than the leaked specs

    suggested,
    > but I'll still stick with the 10D. If it had a spot meter, I'd perhaps

    feel
    > differently. Time to settle back down to waiting for a digital EOS 3.


    Really. It's got three BIG holes: spot meter, RGB histograms (for both RAW
    and processed), and some way to get grid lines on the screen.

    Still, fast start up, USB 2.0, E-TTL II all are big improvements. And the
    10-22 looks good, too.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
    David J. Littleboy, Aug 20, 2004
    #4
  5. Bill Hilton

    Mark B. Guest

    "Chris Brown" <_uce_please.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > There are previews up on most of the usual sites now. I must say, Canon

    seem
    > to have excelled themselves. The new AF system with the little joystick
    > looks very cool, and the noise performance, being equal to or better than
    > the 10D with smaller pixels is very impressive indeed. Looks like there

    are
    > lots of interface improvements and other little niceties over the 10D as
    > well.
    >
    > It certainly looks like more of an upgrade than the leaked specs

    suggested,
    > but I'll still stick with the 10D. If it had a spot meter, I'd perhaps

    feel
    > differently. Time to settle back down to waiting for a digital EOS 3.
    >


    Update - according to a review by Rob Galbraith, the buffer is only good for
    6 (!) images when shooting raw, compared to 24 for jpg. That's not so good.

    Mark
    Mark B., Aug 20, 2004
    #5
  6. "Chris Brown" <_uce_please.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > There are previews up on most of the usual sites now. I must say, Canon

    seem
    > to have excelled themselves. The new AF system with the little joystick
    > looks very cool, and the noise performance, being equal to or better than
    > the 10D with smaller pixels is very impressive indeed. Looks like there

    are
    > lots of interface improvements and other little niceties over the 10D as
    > well.
    >
    > It certainly looks like more of an upgrade than the leaked specs

    suggested,
    > but I'll still stick with the 10D. If it had a spot meter, I'd perhaps

    feel
    > differently. Time to settle back down to waiting for a digital EOS 3.
    >

    http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos20d/

    ok, how about from Canon own site?
    Darrell Larose, Aug 20, 2004
    #6
  7. Bill Hilton

    Steve Guest

    Can you do any better dum shit, some people just think their shit doesnt
    stink.

    **** you.


    "Mark B." <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Chris Brown" <_uce_please.com> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > There are previews up on most of the usual sites now. I must say, Canon

    > seem
    > > to have excelled themselves. The new AF system with the little joystick
    > > looks very cool, and the noise performance, being equal to or better

    than
    > > the 10D with smaller pixels is very impressive indeed. Looks like there

    > are
    > > lots of interface improvements and other little niceties over the 10D as
    > > well.
    > >
    > > It certainly looks like more of an upgrade than the leaked specs

    > suggested,
    > > but I'll still stick with the 10D. If it had a spot meter, I'd perhaps

    > feel
    > > differently. Time to settle back down to waiting for a digital EOS 3.
    > >

    >
    > Update - according to a review by Rob Galbraith, the buffer is only good

    for
    > 6 (!) images when shooting raw, compared to 24 for jpg. That's not so

    good.
    >
    > Mark
    >
    >
    Steve, Aug 20, 2004
    #7
  8. Bill Hilton

    Sabineellen Guest

    >Spot meter would have been nice, but it's not something I can't live w/o.

    Has no spot meter? Whoaa what an omission. Even my inexpensive P&S digicam has
    a spot meter option (as well as center-weighted and average). Why did they omit
    that? It couldn't have been hard or expensive to implement.
    Sabineellen, Aug 20, 2004
    #8
  9. Bill Hilton

    Sabineellen Guest

    >
    >Can you do any better dum shit, some people just think their shit doesnt
    >stink.
    >
    >**** you.


    Heh. So said Mr. Canon.net in typical "aggressive marketting" style.

    Man, that's some unconventional public relations you got ;-)

    Ron Baird should have a thing or two to learn from you.
    Sabineellen, Aug 20, 2004
    #9
  10. Bill Hilton

    Drifter Guest

    On 20 Aug 2004 05:36:07 GMT, (Sabineellen) wrote:

    >Man, that's some unconventional public relations you got ;-)


    don't feed the trolls
    Drifter
    "I've been here, I've been there..."
    Drifter, Aug 20, 2004
    #10
  11. Bill Hilton

    leo Guest

    "Sabineellen" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >Spot meter would have been nice, but it's not something I can't live w/o.

    >
    > Has no spot meter? Whoaa what an omission. Even my inexpensive P&S digicam
    > has
    > a spot meter option (as well as center-weighted and average). Why did they
    > omit
    > that? It couldn't have been hard or expensive to implement.


    It still has partial metering, 9% of the center portion. Not totally
    hadicapped. Spot metering usually measures the center 3.5% though.
    leo, Aug 20, 2004
    #11
  12. In article <cg3iqi$hqr$>, says...
    > Really. It's got three BIG holes: spot meter, RGB histograms (for both RAW
    > and processed), and some way to get grid lines on the screen.


    Those wouldn't cost much to implement, but still - same street price as
    the 10D upon release and lighter and smaller to boot!
    --
    http://www.pbase.com/bcbaird/
    Brian C. Baird, Aug 20, 2004
    #12
  13. Bill Hilton

    Mark M Guest

    "Sabineellen" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >Spot meter would have been nice, but it's not something I can't live w/o.

    >
    > Has no spot meter? Whoaa what an omission. Even my inexpensive P&S digicam

    has
    > a spot meter option (as well as center-weighted and average). Why did they

    omit
    > that? It couldn't have been hard or expensive to implement.


    While many P&S digicams refer to a "spot meter", it is often not a very
    pin-pointed "spot" it uses. Often it is merely the center portion, but a
    rather large center portion...rather than true spot.
    Mark M, Aug 20, 2004
    #13
  14. Bill Hilton

    Mark M Guest

    "Mark B." <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Chris Brown" <_uce_please.com> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > There are previews up on most of the usual sites now. I must say, Canon

    > seem
    > > to have excelled themselves. The new AF system with the little joystick
    > > looks very cool, and the noise performance, being equal to or better

    than
    > > the 10D with smaller pixels is very impressive indeed. Looks like there

    > are
    > > lots of interface improvements and other little niceties over the 10D as
    > > well.
    > >
    > > It certainly looks like more of an upgrade than the leaked specs

    > suggested,
    > > but I'll still stick with the 10D. If it had a spot meter, I'd perhaps

    > feel
    > > differently. Time to settle back down to waiting for a digital EOS 3.
    > >

    >
    > Update - according to a review by Rob Galbraith, the buffer is only good

    for
    > 6 (!) images when shooting raw, compared to 24 for jpg. That's not so

    good.

    On the dpreview site, they have sound recordings available that play back a
    full 36 shots at full res jpeg without slowing at all. That's a lot more
    than 24.
    They did not record for RAW...
    Mark M, Aug 20, 2004
    #14
  15. Bill Hilton

    Guest

    In message <>,
    (Sabineellen) wrote:

    >>Spot meter would have been nice, but it's not something I can't live w/o.

    >
    >Has no spot meter? Whoaa what an omission. Even my inexpensive P&S digicam has
    >a spot meter option (as well as center-weighted and average). Why did they omit
    >that? It couldn't have been hard or expensive to implement.


    It's probably more difficult than on your P&S, because your P&S has live
    feed, and reading an 8*8 pixel spot on it would be trivial. The DSLRs
    need a separate sensor for metering than for exposing.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
    , Aug 20, 2004
    #15
  16. Bill Hilton

    Skip M Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In message <>,
    > (Sabineellen) wrote:
    >
    > >>Spot meter would have been nice, but it's not something I can't live

    w/o.
    > >
    > >Has no spot meter? Whoaa what an omission. Even my inexpensive P&S

    digicam has
    > >a spot meter option (as well as center-weighted and average). Why did

    they omit
    > >that? It couldn't have been hard or expensive to implement.

    >
    > It's probably more difficult than on your P&S, because your P&S has live
    > feed, and reading an 8*8 pixel spot on it would be trivial. The DSLRs
    > need a separate sensor for metering than for exposing.
    > --
    >
    > <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    > John P Sheehy <>
    > ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><


    I wonder what percentage of coverage that spot meter in the P&S is...
    The Canon D30/D60/10D/20D has a 9% "partial" spot meter. My A2 had a 3%,
    IIRC, spot meter, and my 1n a 2.5%, again, IIRC, since I'm too lazy to
    toddle into the other room to get the manuals. My hand held Sekonic spot
    meter was 1%, which, I believe is the same as the Nikon F5.

    --
    Skip Middleton
    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
    Skip M, Aug 21, 2004
    #16
  17. "Skip M" <> wrote in message
    news:WoBVc.86570$Lj.69964@fed1read03...
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > In message <>,
    > > (Sabineellen) wrote:
    > >
    > > >>Spot meter would have been nice, but it's not something I can't live

    > w/o.
    > > >
    > > >Has no spot meter? Whoaa what an omission. Even my inexpensive P&S

    > digicam has
    > > >a spot meter option (as well as center-weighted and average). Why did

    > they omit
    > > >that? It couldn't have been hard or expensive to implement.

    > >
    > > It's probably more difficult than on your P&S, because your P&S has live
    > > feed, and reading an 8*8 pixel spot on it would be trivial. The DSLRs
    > > need a separate sensor for metering than for exposing.
    > > --
    > >
    > > <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    > > John P Sheehy <>
    > > ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><

    >
    > I wonder what percentage of coverage that spot meter in the P&S is...
    > The Canon D30/D60/10D/20D has a 9% "partial" spot meter. My A2 had a 3%,
    > IIRC, spot meter, and my 1n a 2.5%, again, IIRC, since I'm too lazy to
    > toddle into the other room to get the manuals. My hand held Sekonic spot
    > meter was 1%, which, I believe is the same as the Nikon F5.


    All the high end consumer digicam spot meters I know about are true 1% spot
    meters. The one in the F707 works great.

    By the way, to add insult to injury, the 10D and 300D have SEVEN spot
    meters. They only work with flash, though, and on the 300D, the lack of FEC
    means that it gives the wrong exposure almost every time. On the 10D, people
    who understand spot metering get correctly exposed flash shots, if they
    remember to dial in the exposure compensation at every shot.

    David J. Littleboy

    Tokyo, Japan
    David J. Littleboy, Aug 21, 2004
    #17
  18. Skip M wrote:
    []
    > I wonder what percentage of coverage that spot meter in the P&S is...
    > The Canon D30/D60/10D/20D has a 9% "partial" spot meter. My A2 had a
    > 3%, IIRC, spot meter, and my 1n a 2.5%, again, IIRC, since I'm too
    > lazy to toddle into the other room to get the manuals. My hand held
    > Sekonic spot meter was 1%, which, I believe is the same as the Nikon
    > F5.


    The Nikon Coolpix 5700 is 3% (the manual quotes 1/32 of the total frame).

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Aug 21, 2004
    #18
  19. Counter? (Was: Re: EOS 20D - impressive stuff)

    Now it's going to be interesting to see how Nikon and Pentax will counter.
    It looks like a broadside torpedo into the yet to be released Konica-Minolta
    7D. The 7D is now way too late. Pentax may grab a piece of the entry level
    market if their sub USD $900.00 dSLR graps the interest of consumers. It
    depnds on how much camera their is. But to release a Maxxum 7 based 6.3 MP
    APS-C, $2,500 dSLR is too little too late.
    Darrell Larose, Aug 21, 2004
    #19
  20. Re: Counter? (Was: Re: EOS 20D - impressive stuff)

    In article <NWGVc.612$>,
    says...
    > But to release a Maxxum 7 based 6.3 MP
    > APS-C, $2,500 dSLR is too little too late.


    Of course. But I'm sure if they release it we'll get a least one or two
    people here that will waste their entire USENET experience telling us
    how much better it is. :p
    --
    http://www.pbase.com/bcbaird/
    Brian C. Baird, Aug 21, 2004
    #20
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