Enterprise Support Tech or Server Administrator?

Discussion in 'MCITP' started by Kirby Timm, Aug 28, 2008.

  1. Kirby Timm

    Kirby Timm Guest

    So I just passed my MCTS: Windows Vista, Configuration exam this AM. It's
    my first MS cert even though I've been working in the IT industury for
    nearly 15 years. Ideally, I'm going towards a Training certification. If I
    understand the qualifications for an MCT, you have to have a MCITP cert, a
    training cert, and be "ok"ed by Microsoft. Also, I believe that once you
    are a trainer, you can only teach classes in subjects that you have the
    MCITP cert of yourself. So, I'm undecided. Do I go for the 70-622 test and
    get the MCITP: Enterprise Support Tech cause I'm only 1 exam away from it or
    do I skip the 70-622 and move onto the 70-640 test and work towards the
    MCITP: Server Administrator? Eventually, the more certs I have the more
    training I can do so the more classes I can teach, but I'm guessing that any
    place that would look to hire me would want at least the "Server
    Administrator" level of certification, if not the "Enterprise Administrator"
    level before they would even consider hiring me. What advice can anyone
    give me?

    Thanks!
     
    Kirby Timm, Aug 28, 2008
    #1
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  2. Kirby Timm

    John R Guest

    "Kirby Timm" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > So I just passed my MCTS: Windows Vista, Configuration exam this AM. It's
    > my first MS cert even though I've been working in the IT industury for
    > nearly 15 years. Ideally, I'm going towards a Training certification. If
    > I understand the qualifications for an MCT, you have to have a MCITP cert,
    > a training cert, and be "ok"ed by Microsoft. Also, I believe that once
    > you are a trainer, you can only teach classes in subjects that you have
    > the MCITP cert of yourself. So, I'm undecided. Do I go for the 70-622
    > test and get the MCITP: Enterprise Support Tech cause I'm only 1 exam away
    > from it or do I skip the 70-622 and move onto the 70-640 test and work
    > towards the MCITP: Server Administrator? Eventually, the more certs I
    > have the more training I can do so the more classes I can teach, but I'm
    > guessing that any place that would look to hire me would want at least the
    > "Server Administrator" level of certification, if not the "Enterprise
    > Administrator" level before they would even consider hiring me. What
    > advice can anyone give me?
    >


    So, you want to be an IT trainer and you don't understand the difference
    between an Enterprise Support Tech and a Server Administrator? Wow, just
    Wow. Let me clue you in, those are two very different jobs. A Support Tech
    is level 1 desktop support, Vista, XP, Office, user desktop settings, etc.
    A Server Administrator is DNS, Server 2003/2008, DHCP, WINS, layer 1 and 2
    network, auditing, etc.

    To earn a cert, you should have prior EXPERIENCE in that job. Sure, I
    suppose there are those who read a couple books and pass, but what kind of
    instructor would they be when students start asking questions? Not the kind
    of instructor I'd want, I can tell you that for sure. I can read the book
    myself, I'd want someone that actually used the technology and knows the
    in's and out's, understands why, and has worked through issues.

    Before you go out and try to earn MCT, maybe you should actually experience
    what it is you're talking about.

    John R
     
    John R, Aug 29, 2008
    #2
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  3. Kirby Timm

    Guest

    Kirby,

    You are correct that you'll only be able to teach courses that you're
    certified in. I understand your question to be what certification
    would a training institution consider more valuable (and hire you
    based on that certification), not what is the differnce between the
    certifications. The answer is, it depends.

    Some training inistitutions need entry level instructors to teach
    entry level certifications such as MCITP: Enterprise Support tech in
    addition to more advanced trainers that have certifications such as
    MCITP Server Administrator or MCITP Enterprise Administrator. Of
    course, entry level trainers earn entry level pay. The valuable
    trainers have many certifications and can teach many courses.

    The short answer is get all three certifications. I'd suggest that
    after you have the MCITP Enterprise Support tech cert, try to build a
    relationship with someone at a local training institution to determine
    their needs. Maybe they need an entry level trainer right away and
    they'll help you get your MCT, or maybe they'll let you know that once
    you have your MCITP Enterprise Administrator certification they'd be
    happy to talk to you again.

    With your 15 years experience in the IT industry, a training company
    near you may even hire you on to teach basic courses until you get
    your certifications.

    Good luck.

    Darril Gibson
    MCT, MCDBA, MCITP, MCSE, MCSD
    http://mcitpsuccess.com/
    http://mcitpsuccess.blogspot.com/
    Author, MCITP SQL Server 2005 Database Administration All-in-One Exam
    Guide (Exams 70-431, 70-443, & 70-444)
    Author, MCITP SQL Server 2005 Database Developer All-in-One Exam
    Guide (Exams 70-431, 70-441, & 70-442)


    On Aug 28, 2:12 pm, "Kirby Timm" <> wrote:
    > So I just passed my MCTS: Windows Vista, Configuration exam this AM.  It's
    > my first MS cert even though I've been working in the IT industury for
    > nearly 15 years.  Ideally, I'm going towards a Training certification.  If I
    > understand the qualifications for an MCT, you have to have a MCITP cert, a
    > training cert, and be "ok"ed by Microsoft.  Also, I believe that once you
    > are a trainer, you can only teach classes in subjects that you have the
    > MCITP cert of yourself.  So, I'm undecided.  Do I go for the 70-622 test and
    > get the MCITP: Enterprise Support Tech cause I'm only 1 exam away from it or
    > do I skip the 70-622 and move onto the 70-640 test and work towards the
    > MCITP: Server Administrator?  Eventually, the more certs I have the more
    > training I can do so the more classes I can teach, but I'm guessing that any
    > place that would look to hire me would want at least the "Server
    > Administrator" level of certification, if not the "Enterprise Administrator"
    > level before they would even consider hiring me.  What advice can anyone
    > give me?
    >
    > Thanks!
     
    , Aug 30, 2008
    #3
  4. "Kirby Timm" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > . . .What advice can anyone give me?
    >


    Depending on their size, many training organizations will want you to be
    able to conduct classes in the full gamut of their certification offerings.
    Being able to teach the entry level classes my get your foot in the door,
    but you will be immediately pressured to certify, certify, certify.

    I taught and wrote curriculum for fifteen years and have seen instructors
    with every level of experience so I must agree with John R. You need
    experience in the subject matter before you'll be an effective teacher of
    that topic. While on the other hand, I've also seen instructors who are
    blinded by their experience. They can only teach subjects that they have
    direct experience with. What I mean by that is, they can only effectively
    present 60 to 70 percent of the material, because that's all they actually
    done themselves. I do see that you have 15 year in IT, but you don't say in
    what areas.

    I currently work for a consulting firm and all of our clients are SMB's, so
    I can't specialize like Microsoft's certifications are designed for. I have
    to deal with every level of support, from desktop deployment, to server
    configuration, AD Design, GPOs, etc. I'm currently preparing for both the
    70-646 & 70-647 exams (I always prepare for multiple exams at the same
    time). Definitely the Enterprise Administrator has the least to do my
    current job. But I still need to understand how to design and implement
    these technologies to know if they're applicable for a given situation.
    Usually, for our customers, they're not. But I need the knowledge to be able
    to make that judgment, as well as the knowledge to know what other
    technologies (usually non-Microsoft) that are applicable.

    I think that many will want to earn both of these certifications, so
    therefore, it would be helpful for you to be able to teach both.

    I'll end by saying that teaching is an Art, just like troubleshooting. Even
    if you know what all the pieces are, it doesn't mean you know how to put
    them together. Your job isn't don until you've looked into each of your
    students eyes and know that they know.


    Harvey Colwell
    ISCET Journeyman, CNE 3, 4 & Internetware, Cisco CCNE, CompTIA Security+,
    Lotus Domino Administration R5 & R6. MCSE Windows NT4, MCSE Windows 2000
    +Security, MCSE Windows 2003 +Messaging, MSCTS Vista Config, MSCTS Active
    Directory Config, MSCTS Network Infrastructure Config & MSCTS Application
    Services Config.
     
    Harvey Colwell, Sep 2, 2008
    #4
  5. Kirby Timm

    Kirby Timm Guest

    Hey John,
    Thanks for your reply...
    > So, you want to be an IT trainer and you don't understand the difference
    > between an Enterprise Support Tech and a Server Administrator?

    No, I didn't say that I didn't understand the difference. I understand the
    difference. What I am unsure of is if I should take the "Enterprise Support
    Technician" test now, since I'm only 1 exam away, or in order to move
    towards a job as a trainer quicker, pass on it for now and work towards the
    Server and Enterpirse administrator certs. I know that eventually I'd earn
    the "Enterprise Support Tech" cert anyway so it's just a toss up of studying
    for it now or later.

    Thanks again for your reply.
     
    Kirby Timm, Sep 2, 2008
    #5
  6. Kirby Timm

    John R Guest

    "Kirby Timm" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hey John,
    > Thanks for your reply...


    >> So, you want to be an IT trainer and you don't understand the difference
    >> between an Enterprise Support Tech and a Server Administrator?


    > No, I didn't say that I didn't understand the difference. I understand
    > the difference. What I am unsure of is if I should take the "Enterprise
    > Support Technician" test now, since I'm only 1 exam away, or in order to
    > move towards a job as a trainer quicker, pass on it for now and work
    > towards the Server and Enterpirse administrator certs. I know that
    > eventually I'd earn the "Enterprise Support Tech" cert anyway so it's just
    > a toss up of studying for it now or later.


    OK, point well taken. But, if you want to be a trainer, I would think you
    would naturally gravitate towards what you know the best, and this question
    would not even come up.

    You did say that you had 15 years experience, but you didn't say with what.
    My first question is what is your experience? I know people that have
    worked with computers for 25 years, but have no "IT" experience.

    As I said earlier, certs are all about experience, and so is training. If
    you have a lot of experience as a level 1 desktop tech, then go ahead and
    knock that test out and get the cert. (Although, I can't imagine anyone
    giving you a job as a trainer simply because you have a cert). If you don't
    have that experience, then you should look at other paths.

    As to the MCITP Server/Enterprise Admin, again, is this where your
    experience is? Do you know the subject matter well enough to be a trainer?

    And, most importantly, do you have "trainer" skills? I'm not asking if
    you've lead a training conference or two. Talk to any of the guys here with
    MCT and they will tell you just how valuable that is, perhaps almost as
    important as subject matter itself.

    John R
     
    John R, Sep 2, 2008
    #6
  7. Kirby Timm

    Kirby Timm Guest

    I'm quite the "jack of all trades". I do everything from simple desktop
    setup to file server setup to Exchange/AD setups. Because I run so much of
    the gambit, I find that traning for the certs helps to fill in gaps in my
    knowladge. Asside from teaching "begining computers" at a local senior
    centers (where part of the class is learning how to double click, I kid you
    not) I don't have any real experience training. I can only tell you that I
    love being able to pass on knowladge to those that want it. Seeing the look
    on a students face when that light goes on in there head when they "get it",
    and knowing that you helped them get there, is so rewarding!


    "John R" <jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Kirby Timm" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Hey John,
    >> Thanks for your reply...

    >
    >>> So, you want to be an IT trainer and you don't understand the difference
    >>> between an Enterprise Support Tech and a Server Administrator?

    >
    >> No, I didn't say that I didn't understand the difference. I understand
    >> the difference. What I am unsure of is if I should take the "Enterprise
    >> Support Technician" test now, since I'm only 1 exam away, or in order to
    >> move towards a job as a trainer quicker, pass on it for now and work
    >> towards the Server and Enterpirse administrator certs. I know that
    >> eventually I'd earn the "Enterprise Support Tech" cert anyway so it's
    >> just a toss up of studying for it now or later.

    >
    > OK, point well taken. But, if you want to be a trainer, I would think you
    > would naturally gravitate towards what you know the best, and this
    > question would not even come up.
    >
    > You did say that you had 15 years experience, but you didn't say with
    > what. My first question is what is your experience? I know people that
    > have worked with computers for 25 years, but have no "IT" experience.
    >
    > As I said earlier, certs are all about experience, and so is training. If
    > you have a lot of experience as a level 1 desktop tech, then go ahead and
    > knock that test out and get the cert. (Although, I can't imagine anyone
    > giving you a job as a trainer simply because you have a cert). If you
    > don't have that experience, then you should look at other paths.
    >
    > As to the MCITP Server/Enterprise Admin, again, is this where your
    > experience is? Do you know the subject matter well enough to be a
    > trainer?
    >
    > And, most importantly, do you have "trainer" skills? I'm not asking if
    > you've lead a training conference or two. Talk to any of the guys here
    > with MCT and they will tell you just how valuable that is, perhaps almost
    > as important as subject matter itself.
    >
    > John R
     
    Kirby Timm, Sep 2, 2008
    #7
  8. Kirby Timm

    John R Guest

    "John R" <jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Talk to any of the guys here with MCT and they will tell you <snip>


    I stand corrected...

    Talk to any of the other virtual humanoid personalities including but not
    limited to masculine and feminine here with MCT and they will tell you...
    ;)

    John R
     
    John R, Sep 2, 2008
    #8
  9. Have you ever actually taken an MOC in-person instructor led class? I have.
    They are exactly what you are saying they shouldn't be. They have
    book-smarts, not real world experience. I quit and requested a refund on two
    classes I took awhile back. MCT's are also not allowed to answer questions
    NOT pertaining to what that class is about, it's very limited.


    "John R" <jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Kirby Timm" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> So I just passed my MCTS: Windows Vista, Configuration exam this AM.
    >> It's my first MS cert even though I've been working in the IT industury
    >> for nearly 15 years. Ideally, I'm going towards a Training
    >> certification. If I understand the qualifications for an MCT, you have
    >> to have a MCITP cert, a training cert, and be "ok"ed by Microsoft. Also,
    >> I believe that once you are a trainer, you can only teach classes in
    >> subjects that you have the MCITP cert of yourself. So, I'm undecided.
    >> Do I go for the 70-622 test and get the MCITP: Enterprise Support Tech
    >> cause I'm only 1 exam away from it or do I skip the 70-622 and move onto
    >> the 70-640 test and work towards the MCITP: Server Administrator?
    >> Eventually, the more certs I have the more training I can do so the more
    >> classes I can teach, but I'm guessing that any place that would look to
    >> hire me would want at least the "Server Administrator" level of
    >> certification, if not the "Enterprise Administrator" level before they
    >> would even consider hiring me. What advice can anyone give me?
    >>

    >
    > So, you want to be an IT trainer and you don't understand the difference
    > between an Enterprise Support Tech and a Server Administrator? Wow, just
    > Wow. Let me clue you in, those are two very different jobs. A Support
    > Tech is level 1 desktop support, Vista, XP, Office, user desktop settings,
    > etc. A Server Administrator is DNS, Server 2003/2008, DHCP, WINS, layer 1
    > and 2 network, auditing, etc.
    >
    > To earn a cert, you should have prior EXPERIENCE in that job. Sure, I
    > suppose there are those who read a couple books and pass, but what kind of
    > instructor would they be when students start asking questions? Not the
    > kind of instructor I'd want, I can tell you that for sure. I can read the
    > book myself, I'd want someone that actually used the technology and knows
    > the in's and out's, understands why, and has worked through issues.
    >
    > Before you go out and try to earn MCT, maybe you should actually
    > experience what it is you're talking about.
    >
    > John R
     
    Michael Gossett, Sep 16, 2008
    #9
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