Engineering Certifications

Discussion in 'A+ Certification' started by Harsha Raghavan, Jun 2, 2004.

  1. Hello,

    I'm trying to understand the various certifications for engineers.
    This does not include software engineering - there are a ton of
    websites for that! What I'm not able to find out are the various
    certifications for engineers. Can someone help me with either
    information or websites? I'm looking to also learn the number of
    engineers who're certified and who took what certification exams! All
    that good stuff !! Thank you!
    Harsha Raghavan, Jun 2, 2004
    #1
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  2. Harsha Raghavan

    Bernie Guest

    On 2 Jun 2004 07:54:41 -0700, (Harsha
    Raghavan) wrote:

    >Hello,
    >
    >I'm trying to understand the various certifications for engineers.
    >This does not include software engineering - there are a ton of
    >websites for that! What I'm not able to find out are the various
    >certifications for engineers. Can someone help me with either
    >information or websites? I'm looking to also learn the number of
    >engineers who're certified and who took what certification exams! All
    >that good stuff !! Thank you!


    Quick question. Do you mean real engineers, psuedo-engineers (who
    arguably do perform *some* engineering tasks but are not certified by
    state government as "engineers"), or the completely fake engineers who
    make a joke out of the real term "engineer" by attaching it to people
    who pass silly Prometric exams?

    --Bernie
    Bernie, Jun 2, 2004
    #2
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  3. Harsha Raghavan

    N. Funk Guest

    The one and only true engineer has a PE (Professional Engineering)
    registration.

    Harsha Raghavan wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I'm trying to understand the various certifications for engineers.
    > This does not include software engineering - there are a ton of
    > websites for that! What I'm not able to find out are the various
    > certifications for engineers. Can someone help me with either
    > information or websites? I'm looking to also learn the number of
    > engineers who're certified and who took what certification exams! All
    > that good stuff !! Thank you!
    N. Funk, Jun 2, 2004
    #3
  4. On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 21:43:50 GMT, "AT" <torgny@@direcway.com> wrote:

    >
    >"Bernie" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Quick question. Do you mean real engineers, psuedo-engineers (who
    >> arguably do perform *some* engineering tasks but are not certified by
    >> state government as "engineers"), or the completely fake engineers who
    >> make a joke out of the real term "engineer" by attaching it to people
    >> who pass silly Prometric exams?
    >>
    >> --Bernie

    >
    >Engineer is a Job Title! Meaning if you have the job as an engineer then you
    >are an engineer! On the other hand you can have an education as an engineer
    >but not have a job as an engineer. In this case I would not consider you as
    >an engineer. Complicated? Could be, but that's life!
    >
    >The original question is too wide to even try to answer.
    >
    >AT
    >


    No, I don't think so. Once you get the title through a tough
    educational circumstance, you have that title. I have a hard-earned
    electronics engineering technology diploma on my wall, and worked for
    many years in the field of electronics. I no longer work in that
    field. I am still an electronics engineering technologist, in name,
    because I earned the title through education and years in the field.
    If the body who granted me the diploma put a time limit on it, then
    that's fine, but they haven't. If an employer decides to base their
    opinions on current employment, time frame, etc., that's fine too, but
    they might get a surprise if they tested my knowledge base.

    I also have a BA in music, and no longer perform due to
    medical/physical problems. I still believe my BA is valid, and I
    suspect the university that granted my degree does also. Again, the
    yada-yada-yada clause applies. :)

    Tom
    Tom MacIntyre, Jun 2, 2004
    #4
  5. Harsha Raghavan

    TechGeekPro Guest

    "N. Funk" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The one and only true engineer has a PE (Professional Engineering)
    > registration.


    You mean once I get my MCSE I won't be a "true" engineer? What a jip.

    Now I suppose you're going to tell me that once I get my CIW I won't really
    be a "true" Master of the Web.

    Hmmph.

    > Harsha Raghavan wrote:
    > > Hello,
    > >
    > > I'm trying to understand the various certifications for engineers.
    > > This does not include software engineering - there are a ton of
    > > websites for that! What I'm not able to find out are the various
    > > certifications for engineers. Can someone help me with either
    > > information or websites? I'm looking to also learn the number of
    > > engineers who're certified and who took what certification exams! All
    > > that good stuff !! Thank you!

    >
    TechGeekPro, Jun 3, 2004
    #5
  6. Harsha Raghavan

    JaR Guest

    On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 17:29:00 -0500, N. Funk extemporised:

    > The one and only true engineer has a PE (Professional Engineering)
    > registration.
    >


    Go down to the union hall and tell those guys that drive trains they're
    not 'real' engineers.

    Humph!
    JaR, Jun 3, 2004
    #6
  7. Harsha Raghavan

    Bernie Guest

    On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 21:43:50 GMT, "AT" <torgny@@direcway.com> wrote:

    >
    >"Bernie" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Quick question. Do you mean real engineers, psuedo-engineers (who
    >> arguably do perform *some* engineering tasks but are not certified by
    >> state government as "engineers"), or the completely fake engineers who
    >> make a joke out of the real term "engineer" by attaching it to people
    >> who pass silly Prometric exams?
    >>
    >> --Bernie

    >
    >Engineer is a Job Title! Meaning if you have the job as an engineer then you
    >are an engineer!


    Correction. Today it is a job title and a professional degree which
    also has governmental controls (e.g. state board certification etc.).
    It used to only be the latter. The title engineer has been so
    cheapened by cheesy jobs and lame vendor certifications that adopted
    that title to grant an automatic (and cheaply bought I might add)
    elevation in status.

    So ten years from now when "engineer" no longer carries even the
    pitiful status it retains has today, are we going work the word
    "doctor" into our titles to get a further cheaply bought elevation?
    I'm a "network doctor" (not an MD).... scratch that, I'm a "senior
    network doctor." Oops now that everyone is calling themselves a
    senior network doctor, I am now a "level three senior network doctor."

    Maybe after that we will start calling ourselves scientists or lawyers
    etc.

    See how ridiculous that is? It is a slippery slope when you start
    cheapening titles that used to mean something.

    >On the other hand you can have an education as an engineer
    >but not have a job as an engineer. In this case I would not consider you as
    >an engineer.


    But what does it matter what you consider someone if the state board
    considers someone a civil engineer, electrical engineer, etc?

    >Complicated? Could be, but that's life!
    >
    >The original question is too wide to even try to answer.


    Yes it is! That was partly my point.

    --Bernie
    Bernie, Jun 3, 2004
    #7
  8. Harsha Raghavan

    John Agosta Guest

    "Bernie" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 21:43:50 GMT, "AT" <torgny@@direcway.com> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"Bernie" <> wrote in message
    > >news:...
    > >> Quick question. Do you mean real engineers, psuedo-engineers (who
    > >> arguably do perform *some* engineering tasks but are not certified by
    > >> state government as "engineers"), or the completely fake engineers who
    > >> make a joke out of the real term "engineer" by attaching it to people
    > >> who pass silly Prometric exams?
    > >>
    > >> --Bernie

    > >
    > >Engineer is a Job Title! Meaning if you have the job as an engineer then

    you
    > >are an engineer!

    >
    > Correction. Today it is a job title and a professional degree which
    > also has governmental controls (e.g. state board certification etc.).
    > It used to only be the latter. The title engineer has been so
    > cheapened by cheesy jobs and lame vendor certifications that adopted
    > that title to grant an automatic (and cheaply bought I might add)
    > elevation in status.
    >
    > So ten years from now when "engineer" no longer carries even the
    > pitiful status it retains has today, are we going work the word
    > "doctor" into our titles to get a further cheaply bought elevation?
    > I'm a "network doctor" (not an MD).... scratch that, I'm a "senior
    > network doctor." Oops now that everyone is calling themselves a
    > senior network doctor, I am now a "level three senior network doctor."
    >
    > Maybe after that we will start calling ourselves scientists or lawyers
    > etc.
    >
    > See how ridiculous that is? It is a slippery slope when you start
    > cheapening titles that used to mean something.
    >
    > >On the other hand you can have an education as an engineer
    > >but not have a job as an engineer. In this case I would not consider you

    as
    > >an engineer.

    >
    > But what does it matter what you consider someone if the state board
    > considers someone a civil engineer, electrical engineer, etc?
    >
    > >Complicated? Could be, but that's life!
    > >
    > >The original question is too wide to even try to answer.

    >
    > Yes it is! That was partly my point.
    >
    > --Bernie




    The clerk at the record shop will be the

    Rock n Roll Doctor


    ;-)
    John Agosta, Jun 3, 2004
    #8
  9. On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 20:32:52 -0500, Bernie <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 21:43:50 GMT, "AT" <torgny@@direcway.com> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"Bernie" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> Quick question. Do you mean real engineers, psuedo-engineers (who
    >>> arguably do perform *some* engineering tasks but are not certified by
    >>> state government as "engineers"), or the completely fake engineers who
    >>> make a joke out of the real term "engineer" by attaching it to people
    >>> who pass silly Prometric exams?
    >>>
    >>> --Bernie

    >>
    >>Engineer is a Job Title! Meaning if you have the job as an engineer then you
    >>are an engineer!

    >
    >Correction. Today it is a job title and a professional degree which
    >also has governmental controls (e.g. state board certification etc.).
    >It used to only be the latter. The title engineer has been so
    >cheapened by cheesy jobs and lame vendor certifications that adopted
    >that title to grant an automatic (and cheaply bought I might add)
    >elevation in status.


    I can add a spin to this. Here in Canada, when a person wants to
    acquire their Permanent Resident card, he/she usually needs a
    guarantor. One classification of people who can be a guarantor is a
    Professional Engineer. Railway engineers and MCSE's don't fill the
    bill. That is one distinction to add to this discussion.

    Tom

    >
    >So ten years from now when "engineer" no longer carries even the
    >pitiful status it retains has today, are we going work the word
    >"doctor" into our titles to get a further cheaply bought elevation?
    >I'm a "network doctor" (not an MD).... scratch that, I'm a "senior
    >network doctor." Oops now that everyone is calling themselves a
    >senior network doctor, I am now a "level three senior network doctor."
    >
    >Maybe after that we will start calling ourselves scientists or lawyers
    >etc.
    >
    >See how ridiculous that is? It is a slippery slope when you start
    >cheapening titles that used to mean something.
    >
    >>On the other hand you can have an education as an engineer
    >>but not have a job as an engineer. In this case I would not consider you as
    >>an engineer.

    >
    >But what does it matter what you consider someone if the state board
    >considers someone a civil engineer, electrical engineer, etc?
    >
    >>Complicated? Could be, but that's life!
    >>
    >>The original question is too wide to even try to answer.

    >
    >Yes it is! That was partly my point.
    >
    >--Bernie
    Tom MacIntyre, Jun 3, 2004
    #9
  10. On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 20:33:52 -0400, "TechGeekPro"
    <%username%@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >"N. Funk" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> The one and only true engineer has a PE (Professional Engineering)
    >> registration.

    >
    >You mean once I get my MCSE I won't be a "true" engineer? What a jip.
    >
    >Now I suppose you're going to tell me that once I get my CIW I won't really
    >be a "true" Master of the Web.
    >
    >Hmmph.


    A+ doesn't change your blood type either...I guess I am a double-A+,
    though. :)

    Tom

    >
    >> Harsha Raghavan wrote:
    >> > Hello,
    >> >
    >> > I'm trying to understand the various certifications for engineers.
    >> > This does not include software engineering - there are a ton of
    >> > websites for that! What I'm not able to find out are the various
    >> > certifications for engineers. Can someone help me with either
    >> > information or websites? I'm looking to also learn the number of
    >> > engineers who're certified and who took what certification exams! All
    >> > that good stuff !! Thank you!

    >>

    >
    Tom MacIntyre, Jun 3, 2004
    #10
  11. On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 20:45:26 GMT, Barry Watzman
    <> wrote:

    >The term "engineer" is so broad that you are going to have to be more
    >specific.
    >
    >The only legally recognized "engineer" is one who holds a "PE"
    >(Professional Engineer) license granted by the state (I believe that all
    >50 states issue them). This licensing is similar to that for
    >physicians, accountants (CPAs) and lawyers, and is not easy to get
    >(usually, there is an educational, experience and exam requirement, and
    >the exams are not easy). However, this is primarily for civil engineers
    >and architects who design roads, bridges, buildings, water and power
    >systems, etc.
    >
    >The computer and electronics industry mostly ignore this and, in truth,
    >use diplomas and work history for evaluation of employees. The various
    >vendor specific certifications are used largely to certify undegreed
    >"technicians", who really are not "engineers" by most definitions of the
    >word.
    >


    This will give an idea of the stuff that an electrical engineer has to
    be able to handle...for those who are interested. This is the very
    basics, the guts of what keeps our computers working.

    http://pneuma.phys.ualberta.ca/~gingrich/phys395/notes/phys395.html

    Tom

    >
    >Harsha Raghavan wrote:
    >> Hello,
    >>
    >> I'm trying to understand the various certifications for engineers.
    >> This does not include software engineering - there are a ton of
    >> websites for that! What I'm not able to find out are the various
    >> certifications for engineers. Can someone help me with either
    >> information or websites? I'm looking to also learn the number of
    >> engineers who're certified and who took what certification exams! All
    >> that good stuff !! Thank you!
    Tom MacIntyre, Jun 3, 2004
    #11
  12. "Bernie" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 21:43:50 GMT, "AT" <torgny@@direcway.com> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"Bernie" <> wrote in message
    > >news:...
    > >> Quick question. Do you mean real engineers, psuedo-engineers (who
    > >> arguably do perform *some* engineering tasks but are not certified by
    > >> state government as "engineers"), or the completely fake engineers who
    > >> make a joke out of the real term "engineer" by attaching it to people
    > >> who pass silly Prometric exams?
    > >>
    > >> --Bernie

    > >
    > >Engineer is a Job Title! Meaning if you have the job as an engineer then

    you
    > >are an engineer!

    >
    > Correction. Today it is a job title and a professional degree which
    > also has governmental controls (e.g. state board certification etc.).
    > It used to only be the latter. The title engineer has been so
    > cheapened by cheesy jobs and lame vendor certifications that adopted
    > that title to grant an automatic (and cheaply bought I might add)
    > elevation in status.
    >
    > So ten years from now when "engineer" no longer carries even the
    > pitiful status it retains has today, are we going work the word
    > "doctor" into our titles to get a further cheaply bought elevation?
    > I'm a "network doctor" (not an MD).... scratch that, I'm a "senior
    > network doctor." Oops now that everyone is calling themselves a
    > senior network doctor, I am now a "level three senior network doctor."
    >
    > Maybe after that we will start calling ourselves scientists or lawyers
    > etc.
    >
    > See how ridiculous that is? It is a slippery slope when you start
    > cheapening titles that used to mean something.
    >
    > >On the other hand you can have an education as an engineer
    > >but not have a job as an engineer. In this case I would not consider you

    as
    > >an engineer.

    >
    > But what does it matter what you consider someone if the state board
    > considers someone a civil engineer, electrical engineer, etc?
    >
    > >Complicated? Could be, but that's life!
    > >
    > >The original question is too wide to even try to answer.

    >
    > Yes it is! That was partly my point.
    >
    > --Bernie


    Totally agree with Bernie.
    I work for a consulting company that calls us 'engineers' and I cringe
    whenever they say it. I always correct them, even on a conference call with
    a big client 'Ahem, excuse me, just for the record I am NOT an engineer; I
    am a tech'
    When I was hired 5 years ago, I made a big stink about it in a meeting, but
    management decided to keep calling us engineers anyway.
    I refuse to hand out my cards because my co put 'engineer' on them. I said
    that is false reprasentation.
    Ticking Timebomb, Jun 4, 2004
    #12
  13. Harsha Raghavan

    TechGeekPro Guest

    "Ticking Timebomb" <> wrote in message
    news:ZT_vc.79609$%...
    >
    > "Bernie" <> wrote in message
    > news:eek:...
    > > On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 21:43:50 GMT, "AT" <torgny@@direcway.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > >
    > > >"Bernie" <> wrote in message
    > > >news:...
    > > >> Quick question. Do you mean real engineers, psuedo-engineers (who
    > > >> arguably do perform *some* engineering tasks but are not certified by
    > > >> state government as "engineers"), or the completely fake engineers

    who
    > > >> make a joke out of the real term "engineer" by attaching it to people
    > > >> who pass silly Prometric exams?
    > > >>
    > > >> --Bernie
    > > >
    > > >Engineer is a Job Title! Meaning if you have the job as an engineer

    then
    > you
    > > >are an engineer!

    > >
    > > Correction. Today it is a job title and a professional degree which
    > > also has governmental controls (e.g. state board certification etc.).
    > > It used to only be the latter. The title engineer has been so
    > > cheapened by cheesy jobs and lame vendor certifications that adopted
    > > that title to grant an automatic (and cheaply bought I might add)
    > > elevation in status.
    > >
    > > So ten years from now when "engineer" no longer carries even the
    > > pitiful status it retains has today, are we going work the word
    > > "doctor" into our titles to get a further cheaply bought elevation?
    > > I'm a "network doctor" (not an MD).... scratch that, I'm a "senior
    > > network doctor." Oops now that everyone is calling themselves a
    > > senior network doctor, I am now a "level three senior network doctor."
    > >
    > > Maybe after that we will start calling ourselves scientists or lawyers
    > > etc.
    > >
    > > See how ridiculous that is? It is a slippery slope when you start
    > > cheapening titles that used to mean something.
    > >
    > > >On the other hand you can have an education as an engineer
    > > >but not have a job as an engineer. In this case I would not consider

    you
    > as
    > > >an engineer.

    > >
    > > But what does it matter what you consider someone if the state board
    > > considers someone a civil engineer, electrical engineer, etc?
    > >
    > > >Complicated? Could be, but that's life!
    > > >
    > > >The original question is too wide to even try to answer.

    > >
    > > Yes it is! That was partly my point.
    > >
    > > --Bernie

    >
    > Totally agree with Bernie.
    > I work for a consulting company that calls us 'engineers' and I cringe
    > whenever they say it. I always correct them, even on a conference call

    with
    > a big client 'Ahem, excuse me, just for the record I am NOT an engineer;

    I
    > am a tech'
    > When I was hired 5 years ago, I made a big stink about it in a meeting,

    but
    > management decided to keep calling us engineers anyway.
    > I refuse to hand out my cards because my co put 'engineer' on them. I said
    > that is false reprasentation.
    >
    >


    Agree with it or not, the "E" in MCSE *does* stand for Engineer.
    TechGeekPro, Jun 4, 2004
    #13
  14. "TechGeekPro" <%username%@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Ticking Timebomb" <> wrote in message
    > news:ZT_vc.79609$%...
    > >
    > > "Bernie" <> wrote in message
    > > news:eek:...
    > > > On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 21:43:50 GMT, "AT" <torgny@@direcway.com> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >"Bernie" <> wrote in message
    > > > >news:...
    > > > >> Quick question. Do you mean real engineers, psuedo-engineers (who
    > > > >> arguably do perform *some* engineering tasks but are not certified

    by
    > > > >> state government as "engineers"), or the completely fake engineers

    > who
    > > > >> make a joke out of the real term "engineer" by attaching it to

    people
    > > > >> who pass silly Prometric exams?
    > > > >>
    > > > >> --Bernie
    > > > >
    > > > >Engineer is a Job Title! Meaning if you have the job as an engineer

    > then
    > > you
    > > > >are an engineer!
    > > >
    > > > Correction. Today it is a job title and a professional degree which
    > > > also has governmental controls (e.g. state board certification etc.).
    > > > It used to only be the latter. The title engineer has been so
    > > > cheapened by cheesy jobs and lame vendor certifications that adopted
    > > > that title to grant an automatic (and cheaply bought I might add)
    > > > elevation in status.
    > > >
    > > > So ten years from now when "engineer" no longer carries even the
    > > > pitiful status it retains has today, are we going work the word
    > > > "doctor" into our titles to get a further cheaply bought elevation?
    > > > I'm a "network doctor" (not an MD).... scratch that, I'm a "senior
    > > > network doctor." Oops now that everyone is calling themselves a
    > > > senior network doctor, I am now a "level three senior network doctor."
    > > >
    > > > Maybe after that we will start calling ourselves scientists or lawyers
    > > > etc.
    > > >
    > > > See how ridiculous that is? It is a slippery slope when you start
    > > > cheapening titles that used to mean something.
    > > >
    > > > >On the other hand you can have an education as an engineer
    > > > >but not have a job as an engineer. In this case I would not consider

    > you
    > > as
    > > > >an engineer.
    > > >
    > > > But what does it matter what you consider someone if the state board
    > > > considers someone a civil engineer, electrical engineer, etc?
    > > >
    > > > >Complicated? Could be, but that's life!
    > > > >
    > > > >The original question is too wide to even try to answer.
    > > >
    > > > Yes it is! That was partly my point.
    > > >
    > > > --Bernie

    > >
    > > Totally agree with Bernie.
    > > I work for a consulting company that calls us 'engineers' and I cringe
    > > whenever they say it. I always correct them, even on a conference call

    > with
    > > a big client 'Ahem, excuse me, just for the record I am NOT an

    engineer;
    > I
    > > am a tech'
    > > When I was hired 5 years ago, I made a big stink about it in a meeting,

    > but
    > > management decided to keep calling us engineers anyway.
    > > I refuse to hand out my cards because my co put 'engineer' on them. I

    said
    > > that is false reprasentation.
    > >

    > Agree with it or not, the "E" in MCSE *does* stand for Engineer.
    >

    Ya I know I am a stick in the mud, but just because MS is insulting a group
    of professionals by cheapening the word, does not mean I will also.
    Ticking Timebomb, Jun 4, 2004
    #14
  15. Harsha Raghavan

    TechGeekPro Guest

    "Ticking Timebomb" <> wrote in message
    news:c9%vc.79611$...
    >
    > "TechGeekPro" <%username%@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > "Ticking Timebomb" <> wrote in message
    > > news:ZT_vc.79609$%...
    > > >
    > > > "Bernie" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:eek:...
    > > > > On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 21:43:50 GMT, "AT" <torgny@@direcway.com> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >"Bernie" <> wrote in message
    > > > > >news:...
    > > > > >> Quick question. Do you mean real engineers, psuedo-engineers

    (who
    > > > > >> arguably do perform *some* engineering tasks but are not

    certified
    > by
    > > > > >> state government as "engineers"), or the completely fake

    engineers
    > > who
    > > > > >> make a joke out of the real term "engineer" by attaching it to

    > people
    > > > > >> who pass silly Prometric exams?
    > > > > >>
    > > > > >> --Bernie
    > > > > >
    > > > > >Engineer is a Job Title! Meaning if you have the job as an engineer

    > > then
    > > > you
    > > > > >are an engineer!
    > > > >
    > > > > Correction. Today it is a job title and a professional degree which
    > > > > also has governmental controls (e.g. state board certification

    etc.).
    > > > > It used to only be the latter. The title engineer has been so
    > > > > cheapened by cheesy jobs and lame vendor certifications that adopted
    > > > > that title to grant an automatic (and cheaply bought I might add)
    > > > > elevation in status.
    > > > >
    > > > > So ten years from now when "engineer" no longer carries even the
    > > > > pitiful status it retains has today, are we going work the word
    > > > > "doctor" into our titles to get a further cheaply bought elevation?
    > > > > I'm a "network doctor" (not an MD).... scratch that, I'm a "senior
    > > > > network doctor." Oops now that everyone is calling themselves a
    > > > > senior network doctor, I am now a "level three senior network

    doctor."
    > > > >
    > > > > Maybe after that we will start calling ourselves scientists or

    lawyers
    > > > > etc.
    > > > >
    > > > > See how ridiculous that is? It is a slippery slope when you start
    > > > > cheapening titles that used to mean something.
    > > > >
    > > > > >On the other hand you can have an education as an engineer
    > > > > >but not have a job as an engineer. In this case I would not

    consider
    > > you
    > > > as
    > > > > >an engineer.
    > > > >
    > > > > But what does it matter what you consider someone if the state board
    > > > > considers someone a civil engineer, electrical engineer, etc?
    > > > >
    > > > > >Complicated? Could be, but that's life!
    > > > > >
    > > > > >The original question is too wide to even try to answer.
    > > > >
    > > > > Yes it is! That was partly my point.
    > > > >
    > > > > --Bernie
    > > >
    > > > Totally agree with Bernie.
    > > > I work for a consulting company that calls us 'engineers' and I cringe
    > > > whenever they say it. I always correct them, even on a conference call

    > > with
    > > > a big client 'Ahem, excuse me, just for the record I am NOT an

    > engineer;
    > > I
    > > > am a tech'
    > > > When I was hired 5 years ago, I made a big stink about it in a

    meeting,
    > > but
    > > > management decided to keep calling us engineers anyway.
    > > > I refuse to hand out my cards because my co put 'engineer' on them. I

    > said
    > > > that is false reprasentation.
    > > >

    > > Agree with it or not, the "E" in MCSE *does* stand for Engineer.
    > >

    > Ya I know I am a stick in the mud, but just because MS is insulting a

    group
    > of professionals by cheapening the word, does not mean I will also.
    >
    >


    I don't particularly like it either. I prefer technician.
    TechGeekPro, Jun 4, 2004
    #15
  16. Harsha Raghavan

    Bernie Guest

    On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 09:56:07 -0400, "TechGeekPro"
    <%username%@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >"Ticking Timebomb" <> wrote in message
    >news:c9%vc.79611$...
    >>
    >> "TechGeekPro" <%username%@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > "Ticking Timebomb" <> wrote in message
    >> > news:ZT_vc.79609$%...
    >> > >
    >> > > "Bernie" <> wrote in message
    >> > > news:eek:...
    >> > > > On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 21:43:50 GMT, "AT" <torgny@@direcway.com> wrote:
    >> > > >
    >> > > > >
    >> > > > >"Bernie" <> wrote in message
    >> > > > >news:...
    >> > > > >> Quick question. Do you mean real engineers, psuedo-engineers

    >(who
    >> > > > >> arguably do perform *some* engineering tasks but are not

    >certified
    >> by
    >> > > > >> state government as "engineers"), or the completely fake

    >engineers
    >> > who
    >> > > > >> make a joke out of the real term "engineer" by attaching it to

    >> people
    >> > > > >> who pass silly Prometric exams?
    >> > > > >>
    >> > > > >> --Bernie
    >> > > > >
    >> > > > >Engineer is a Job Title! Meaning if you have the job as an engineer
    >> > then
    >> > > you
    >> > > > >are an engineer!
    >> > > >
    >> > > > Correction. Today it is a job title and a professional degree which
    >> > > > also has governmental controls (e.g. state board certification

    >etc.).
    >> > > > It used to only be the latter. The title engineer has been so
    >> > > > cheapened by cheesy jobs and lame vendor certifications that adopted
    >> > > > that title to grant an automatic (and cheaply bought I might add)
    >> > > > elevation in status.
    >> > > >
    >> > > > So ten years from now when "engineer" no longer carries even the
    >> > > > pitiful status it retains has today, are we going work the word
    >> > > > "doctor" into our titles to get a further cheaply bought elevation?
    >> > > > I'm a "network doctor" (not an MD).... scratch that, I'm a "senior
    >> > > > network doctor." Oops now that everyone is calling themselves a
    >> > > > senior network doctor, I am now a "level three senior network

    >doctor."
    >> > > >
    >> > > > Maybe after that we will start calling ourselves scientists or

    >lawyers
    >> > > > etc.
    >> > > >
    >> > > > See how ridiculous that is? It is a slippery slope when you start
    >> > > > cheapening titles that used to mean something.
    >> > > >
    >> > > > >On the other hand you can have an education as an engineer
    >> > > > >but not have a job as an engineer. In this case I would not

    >consider
    >> > you
    >> > > as
    >> > > > >an engineer.
    >> > > >
    >> > > > But what does it matter what you consider someone if the state board
    >> > > > considers someone a civil engineer, electrical engineer, etc?
    >> > > >
    >> > > > >Complicated? Could be, but that's life!
    >> > > > >
    >> > > > >The original question is too wide to even try to answer.
    >> > > >
    >> > > > Yes it is! That was partly my point.
    >> > > >
    >> > > > --Bernie
    >> > >
    >> > > Totally agree with Bernie.
    >> > > I work for a consulting company that calls us 'engineers' and I cringe
    >> > > whenever they say it. I always correct them, even on a conference call
    >> > with
    >> > > a big client 'Ahem, excuse me, just for the record I am NOT an

    >> engineer;
    >> > I
    >> > > am a tech'
    >> > > When I was hired 5 years ago, I made a big stink about it in a

    >meeting,
    >> > but
    >> > > management decided to keep calling us engineers anyway.
    >> > > I refuse to hand out my cards because my co put 'engineer' on them. I

    >> said
    >> > > that is false reprasentation.
    >> > >
    >> > Agree with it or not, the "E" in MCSE *does* stand for Engineer.


    And what is so disgusting about Microsoft using this same term, is
    that this is the SAME company that was forced to change the official
    job title of their own employees to remove the word "engineer" after
    various state boards got on their case. I should know, I was one of
    the people who were affected at the time.

    So basically, MS is just being an ass-kiss (to anyone certified) by
    continuing to use that word when they know it is wrong to do so.

    >> Ya I know I am a stick in the mud, but just because MS is insulting a

    >group
    >> of professionals by cheapening the word, does not mean I will also.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >I don't particularly like it either. I prefer technician.
    >



    --Bernie
    Bernie, Jun 4, 2004
    #16
  17. Harsha Raghavan

    beekay Guest

    Just curious - does a BA mean you are a bachelor? Or an artist? And can
    you be an unmarried portrait painter without a BA? Really, this is just for
    laughs, not an attack.

    bruce kimball from louisville

    =========================================

    "Tom MacIntyre" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 21:43:50 GMT, "AT" <torgny@@direcway.com> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"Bernie" <> wrote in message
    > >news:...
    > >> Quick question. Do you mean real engineers, psuedo-engineers (who
    > >> arguably do perform *some* engineering tasks but are not certified by
    > >> state government as "engineers"), or the completely fake engineers who
    > >> make a joke out of the real term "engineer" by attaching it to people
    > >> who pass silly Prometric exams?
    > >>
    > >> --Bernie

    > >
    > >Engineer is a Job Title! Meaning if you have the job as an engineer then

    you
    > >are an engineer! On the other hand you can have an education as an

    engineer
    > >but not have a job as an engineer. In this case I would not consider you

    as
    > >an engineer. Complicated? Could be, but that's life!
    > >
    > >The original question is too wide to even try to answer.
    > >
    > >AT
    > >

    >
    > No, I don't think so. Once you get the title through a tough
    > educational circumstance, you have that title. I have a hard-earned
    > electronics engineering technology diploma on my wall, and worked for
    > many years in the field of electronics. I no longer work in that
    > field. I am still an electronics engineering technologist, in name,
    > because I earned the title through education and years in the field.
    > If the body who granted me the diploma put a time limit on it, then
    > that's fine, but they haven't. If an employer decides to base their
    > opinions on current employment, time frame, etc., that's fine too, but
    > they might get a surprise if they tested my knowledge base.
    >
    > I also have a BA in music, and no longer perform due to
    > medical/physical problems. I still believe my BA is valid, and I
    > suspect the university that granted my degree does also. Again, the
    > yada-yada-yada clause applies. :)
    >
    > Tom
    beekay, Jun 4, 2004
    #17
  18. Harsha Raghavan

    AG Guest

    "beekay" <> wrote in message
    news:c9q7m3$...
    > Just curious - does a BA mean you are a bachelor? Or an artist? And can
    > you be an unmarried portrait painter without a BA? Really, this is just

    for
    > laughs, not an attack.
    >
    > bruce kimball from louisville


    BA means Bachelor of Arts. BS means Bachelor of Science and other things we
    won't go into unless you just must.
    I have a BME which stands for Bachelor of Music Education.

    AG






    >
    > =========================================
    >
    > "Tom MacIntyre" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 21:43:50 GMT, "AT" <torgny@@direcway.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > >
    > > >"Bernie" <> wrote in message
    > > >news:...
    > > >> Quick question. Do you mean real engineers, psuedo-engineers (who
    > > >> arguably do perform *some* engineering tasks but are not certified by
    > > >> state government as "engineers"), or the completely fake engineers

    who
    > > >> make a joke out of the real term "engineer" by attaching it to people
    > > >> who pass silly Prometric exams?
    > > >>
    > > >> --Bernie
    > > >
    > > >Engineer is a Job Title! Meaning if you have the job as an engineer

    then
    > you
    > > >are an engineer! On the other hand you can have an education as an

    > engineer
    > > >but not have a job as an engineer. In this case I would not consider

    you
    > as
    > > >an engineer. Complicated? Could be, but that's life!
    > > >
    > > >The original question is too wide to even try to answer.
    > > >
    > > >AT
    > > >

    > >
    > > No, I don't think so. Once you get the title through a tough
    > > educational circumstance, you have that title. I have a hard-earned
    > > electronics engineering technology diploma on my wall, and worked for
    > > many years in the field of electronics. I no longer work in that
    > > field. I am still an electronics engineering technologist, in name,
    > > because I earned the title through education and years in the field.
    > > If the body who granted me the diploma put a time limit on it, then
    > > that's fine, but they haven't. If an employer decides to base their
    > > opinions on current employment, time frame, etc., that's fine too, but
    > > they might get a surprise if they tested my knowledge base.
    > >
    > > I also have a BA in music, and no longer perform due to
    > > medical/physical problems. I still believe my BA is valid, and I
    > > suspect the university that granted my degree does also. Again, the
    > > yada-yada-yada clause applies. :)
    > >
    > > Tom

    >
    >
    AG, Jun 4, 2004
    #18
  19. Harsha Raghavan

    AG Guest

    "Richard Ballard" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > (Harsha Raghavan) writes:
    >
    > >I'm trying to understand the various certifications for engineers.
    > >This does not include software engineering - there are a ton of
    > >websites for that! What I'm not able to find out are the various
    > >certifications for engineers. Can someone help me with either
    > >information or websites? I'm looking to also learn the number of
    > >engineers who're certified and who took what certification exams! All
    > >that good stuff !! Thank you!

    >
    > The only individuals legally qualified to testify in Court as
    > Engineers are those individuals licensed as Professional
    > Engineers (PE). Qualifying for the license requires
    > engineering education, relevant work experience, and then
    > successfully completing the license testing. Licensing
    > is performed by a PE certification body on a state-by-state
    > basis. One state's PE certification is *not* recognized in
    > all the fifty United States. I do not know if some states
    > have reciprocity agreements in PE license recognition.
    >
    > I have a Bachelor's Degree in Electrical Engineering and
    > a Master's Degree in Electrical Engineering, but no PE
    > license. I usually say "I was educated as an
    > Electrical Engineer."
    >
    > The title "Engineer" is otherwise used in technology.
    > I choose not to comment on these uses.
    >
    > Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
    >
    > --
    > Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging and security
    > Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at www.amazon.com
    > SALES
    > P.O. Box 2609
    > Saint Louis MO 63116-0609
    > United States
    > (314) 776-2799 (days & emergencies -- telephone only, no voice mail)
    >
    > Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
    > --
    > Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
    > Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at www.amazon.com
    > Last book review: "Guerrilla Television" by Michael Shamberg
    >

    A buddy of mine is a Construction and Soil Engineer and works in several
    different states in the Southwest. There is indeed reciprocity between many
    states. Louisiana is the oddball on many of these they are on their own
    separate planet.
    AG
    AG, Jun 4, 2004
    #19
  20. Harsha Raghavan

    TechGeekPro Guest

    Just a thought: What about Sanitation Engineers?

    --
    I may not be completely certified, but I am completely certifiable.

    "Harsha Raghavan" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello,
    >
    > I'm trying to understand the various certifications for engineers.
    > This does not include software engineering - there are a ton of
    > websites for that! What I'm not able to find out are the various
    > certifications for engineers. Can someone help me with either
    > information or websites? I'm looking to also learn the number of
    > engineers who're certified and who took what certification exams! All
    > that good stuff !! Thank you!
    TechGeekPro, Jun 4, 2004
    #20
    1. Advertising

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