End to End IP QoS for voice, video and Xbox Live

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Hiro, Feb 13, 2006.

  1. Hiro

    Hiro Guest

    Does anyone know if any VoIP providers or ISPs are supporting
    end-to-end (between my home and the VoIP service provider) QoS
    handling? If not, is anyone aware if its on their offerings roadmap?

    Presumably the VoIP service provider then have their own mechanisms for
    handling QoS to the end destination in order to give a clean phone
    connection.

    Also, am planning on getting Xbox Live so will need to somehow get QoS
    priorities working between data, voice, video and Halo 2 games sessions
    on my soon to arrive Thomson Speedtouch 716wl gadget using newly
    provisioned UK Online 2MBPS service...any advice would be appreciated.

    Cheers

    Hiro
    Hiro, Feb 13, 2006
    #1
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  2. Hiro

    TheMgt Guest

    TheMgt, Feb 13, 2006
    #2
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  3. Hiro

    Ian Guest

    "Hiro" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Does anyone know if any VoIP providers or ISPs are supporting
    > end-to-end (between my home and the VoIP service provider) QoS
    > handling? If not, is anyone aware if its on their offerings roadmap?
    >
    > Presumably the VoIP service provider then have their own mechanisms for
    > handling QoS to the end destination in order to give a clean phone
    > connection.
    >
    > Also, am planning on getting Xbox Live so will need to somehow get QoS
    > priorities working between data, voice, video and Halo 2 games sessions
    > on my soon to arrive Thomson Speedtouch 716wl gadget using newly
    > provisioned UK Online 2MBPS service...any advice would be appreciated.


    Yes there are suppliers who offer this, But not at a domestic rate. basicly
    they offer a VPN.

    Some domestic ISPs are now starting to introduce Network management:
    This is what my isp is doing, And quality has improved - was only in the
    evenings now its " Introduction of traffic prioritisation to ensure
    important web, email, gaming and broadband phone call (VoIP) traffic gets
    priority at all times".

    Ian
    Ian, Feb 14, 2006
    #3
  4. Hiro

    Nick Ward Guest

    Hiro wrote:
    > Does anyone know if any VoIP providers or ISPs are supporting
    > end-to-end (between my home and the VoIP service provider) QoS
    > handling? If not, is anyone aware if its on their offerings roadmap?


    No, that's what the so-called 21st Century Networks are all about - IP
    Telephony (with QoS) as opposed to Voice over IP (without QoS). It'll
    be on all the major telco ISPs' roadmaps. BT is trialling something in
    Cardiff, so if you're fortunate enough to live there then you may get
    it sooner!

    >
    > Presumably the VoIP service provider then have their own mechanisms for
    > handling QoS to the end destination in order to give a clean phone
    > connection.


    Yes, the packets are marked to indicate the priority with which the
    network should handle them. Time-critical stuff (voice, video) gets a
    high priority and non-time-critical stuff (data) gets a low priority.

    What you're after is available today in Enterprise networks (IP
    Telephony over the LAN) but is too costly to do over the current PSTN.

    Nick
    Nick Ward, Feb 14, 2006
    #4
  5. Hiro

    Hiro Guest

    hmm... read article ....

    seems like bureacrats trying to figure out how best to manage
    technology they don't understand

    prioritizing one traffic stream over another is inevitable and
    desirable

    it would allow differented products to be delivered over one single
    broadband line (hopefully without having to pay two bills for line
    rental and broadband service)

    in any case, there is differentiated services already in the form of
    contention ratios of 20:1 offered to business and 50:1 to residential
    (approx numbers). i am in that wonderful space classified as SOHO so
    could choose either. I've chosen price over QoS so have a residential
    service
    Hiro, Feb 14, 2006
    #5
  6. Hiro

    Hiro Guest

    and who pray tell is your ISP?
    Hiro, Feb 14, 2006
    #6
  7. Hiro

    Nick Ward Guest

    Hiro wrote:
    > and who pray tell is your ISP?


    Netservices - www.netservicesplc.com - they have an IP Telephony
    service (as opposed to VoIP).
    Nick Ward, Feb 14, 2006
    #7
  8. Hiro

    Hiro Guest

    Thanks Nick
    looks like netservicesplc is selling services to business customers as
    you mention below and delivering end to end Qos traffic presumably via
    VPNs as Ian has mentioned.

    Ian
    I was actually interested in your domestic line provider... is it
    plusnet by any chance?

    Believe 21cn is pegged for delivery in 2008 onwards...seems not bad if
    they can deliver in 2 years but suspect it will get delayed

    Cheers
    Hiro
    Hiro, Feb 14, 2006
    #8
  9. Hiro <> wrote:
    [...]
    > prioritizing one traffic stream over another is inevitable and
    > desirable


    The Internet2 guys have spent some time doing research into QoS and the like
    to ensure timely delivery of multimedia content, and the net conclusion was
    that it's cheaper in the long run to just provide sufficient bandwidth in
    the first place.

    Bandwidth gets cheaper faster than technologies designed to conserve it. For
    example, few ISPs bother with transparent proxy caches any more as they're
    expensive and unreliable and international bandwidth is dirt cheap.

    --
    PHB: I need the handover documents for these 6 items ASAP.
    BOFH: I'll treat them as a priority.
    PHB: Does that mean I'll get them today or tomorrow?
    BOFH: Did I say what level of priority I was assigning them?
    Peter Corlett, Feb 14, 2006
    #9
  10. Hiro

    Ian Guest

    "Nick Ward" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hiro wrote:
    > > and who pray tell is your ISP?

    >
    > Netservices - www.netservicesplc.com - they have an IP Telephony
    > service (as opposed to VoIP).
    >

    No its not! or are you answering a different question ???

    Ian
    Ian, Feb 14, 2006
    #10
  11. Hiro

    Ian Guest

    "Nick Ward" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hiro wrote:
    > > Does anyone know if any VoIP providers or ISPs are supporting
    > > end-to-end (between my home and the VoIP service provider) QoS
    > > handling? If not, is anyone aware if its on their offerings roadmap?

    >
    > No, that's what the so-called 21st Century Networks are all about - IP
    > Telephony (with QoS) as opposed to Voice over IP (without QoS). It'll
    > be on all the major telco ISPs' roadmaps. BT is trialling something in
    > Cardiff, so if you're fortunate enough to live there then you may get
    > it sooner!
    >
    > >
    > > Presumably the VoIP service provider then have their own mechanisms for
    > > handling QoS to the end destination in order to give a clean phone
    > > connection.

    >
    > Yes, the packets are marked to indicate the priority with which the
    > network should handle them. Time-critical stuff (voice, video) gets a
    > high priority and non-time-critical stuff (data) gets a low priority.
    >
    > What you're after is available today in Enterprise networks (IP
    > Telephony over the LAN) but is too costly to do over the current PSTN.


    You have been able to get QOS With priority fo voice for at least the last 3
    years with certain suppliers.
    At the moment most if not all VPNS are avalible with QOS, But at a cost.

    Now some normal ISPs are starting to do network managment, I have definately
    seen an improvement since its introduction by my ISP.

    Ian
    Ian, Feb 14, 2006
    #11
  12. Hiro

    Nick Ward Guest

    Ian wrote:
    > "Nick Ward" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hiro wrote:
    > > > and who pray tell is your ISP?

    > >
    > > Netservices - www.netservicesplc.com - they have an IP Telephony
    > > service (as opposed to VoIP).
    > >

    > No its not! or are you answering a different question ???
    >
    > Ian


    In answer to the question 'and who pray tell is your ISP', I can
    confirm that the answer is Netservices (though I hope this is not what
    you meant).

    If the comment 'No its not!' refers to my statement that Netservices
    has an IP Telephony service (as opposed to VoIP) then I beg to differ
    as per:

    http://www.voice4ip.com/our_network/fully-managed-carrier-class-network

    But if you have first-hand experience and it doesn't offer the claimed
    QoS then it would be interesting to know about.

    I have no connection (as it were) with Netservices.
    Nick Ward, Feb 14, 2006
    #12
  13. Hiro

    Nick Ward Guest

    Ian wrote:
    > You have been able to get QOS With priority fo voice for at least the last 3
    > years with certain suppliers.


    When you write 'suppliers' do you mean voice service providers or
    equipment vendors?

    If you mean voice service providers, then who are they and are their
    services available to domestic users as well as businesses?
    Nick Ward, Feb 14, 2006
    #13
  14. Hiro

    Paul Cupis Guest

    Nick Ward wrote:
    > Netservices - www.netservicesplc.com - they have an IP Telephony
    > service (as opposed to VoIP).


    And what is the difference between "IP Telephony" and "VoIP", please?
    Paul Cupis, Feb 14, 2006
    #14
  15. Hiro

    alexd Guest

    Nick Ward wrote:

    >> Presumably the VoIP service provider then have their own mechanisms for
    >> handling QoS to the end destination in order to give a clean phone
    >> connection.

    >
    > Yes, the packets are marked to indicate the priority with which the
    > network should handle them. Time-critical stuff (voice, video) gets a
    > high priority and non-time-critical stuff (data) gets a low priority.


    Sounds alright in theory, but how will this work in practice? Surely if it's
    down to the EU to tag their packets priority-wise, everyone will just mark
    all their own traffic as 'high priority' and we'll be back to square one?

    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    21:30:56 up 20 days, 1:49, 2 users, load average: 0.06, 0.17, 0.28
    This is my BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMSTICK
    alexd, Feb 14, 2006
    #15
  16. Hiro

    alexd Guest

    Peter Corlett wrote:

    > Bandwidth gets cheaper faster than technologies designed to conserve it.
    > For example, few ISPs bother with transparent proxy caches any more as
    > they're expensive and unreliable and international bandwidth is dirt
    > cheap.


    Not to mention customers always using transparent proxies as a stick to beat
    their ISP with, ie any time Joe User can't connect to $SITE, ring ISP and
    whinge about the 'transparent' proxy!

    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    21:43:50 up 20 days, 2:02, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.05, 0.14
    This is my BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMSTICK
    alexd, Feb 14, 2006
    #16
  17. Hiro

    Peter M Guest

    Nick Ward wrote:

    > Ian wrote:


    >>>Hiro wrote:


    >>>>and who pray tell is your ISP?


    >>No its not! or are you answering a different question ???


    > In answer to the question 'and who pray tell is your ISP', I can
    > confirm that the answer is Netservices (though I hope this is
    > not what you meant).


    Except the question was for Ian, of course, as was obvious by the
    thread, and references line. At a guess, I'd suspect Ian uses
    Metronet, now owned by Plus.Net, BICBW :) Peter M.
    Peter M, Feb 14, 2006
    #17
  18. Hiro

    Nick Ward Guest

    Paul Cupis wrote:
    > And what is the difference between "IP Telephony" and "VoIP", please?


    "IP Telephony" is gaining currency as a description of a converged
    network, including mobile, exploiting SIP features like presence
    detection, follow me and seamless moves and changes within the VPN.
    Nick Ward, Feb 15, 2006
    #18
  19. Hiro

    Ian Guest

    "Nick Ward" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Ian wrote:
    > > You have been able to get QOS With priority fo voice for at least the

    last 3
    > > years with certain suppliers.

    >
    > When you write 'suppliers' do you mean voice service providers or
    > equipment vendors?
    >
    > If you mean voice service providers, then who are they and are their
    > services available to domestic users as well as businesses?
    >

    Originaly neither, It was the ISPs. Now Visps have started to use the ISPs
    VPNs with QOS to suppy Voip services over.
    As to being avalible to domestic users, not realy. Cost being prime. im sure
    it will be one day though .
    Ian, Feb 15, 2006
    #19
  20. Hiro

    Ian Guest

    "Paul Cupis" <> wrote in message
    news:dstfjo$22po$...
    > Nick Ward wrote:
    > > Netservices - www.netservicesplc.com - they have an IP Telephony
    > > service (as opposed to VoIP).

    >
    > And what is the difference between "IP Telephony" and "VoIP", please?


    Nothing. VoIP is a generic term for the transport of voice packets over the
    IP. Netservices and few others are using different terms. IP Telephony is
    VoIP.

    Have a look at http://www.voice4ip.com/what_is_voip.php to see how the QOS
    is done and why it wont be avalible to domestic users.

    Ian
    Ian, Feb 15, 2006
    #20
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