EMI "Copy Controlled Disc" bought from Sounds?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Jamie Kahn Genet, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. WTF is this "Copy Control technology" supposed to do? I just bought
    EMI's 'Super 70's Rock' 2 CD collection and the Compact Disc logo is
    absent. In it's place is this notice they're Copy Controlled Discs. Well
    - I just put disc 1 into my Mac and iTunes is ripping it just fine :-D
    Does this shitty bastardising of the Audio CD format DO anything?

    Curiously yours,
    Jamie Kahn Genet.
    --
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
    Jamie Kahn Genet, Jan 31, 2007
    #1
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  2. Jamie Kahn Genet

    Richard Guest

    Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
    > WTF is this "Copy Control technology" supposed to do? I just bought
    > EMI's 'Super 70's Rock' 2 CD collection and the Compact Disc logo is
    > absent. In it's place is this notice they're Copy Controlled Discs. Well
    > - I just put disc 1 into my Mac and iTunes is ripping it just fine :-D
    > Does this shitty bastardising of the Audio CD format DO anything?


    Yeah, it does, try it in a dvd player that can play mp3 and see as it
    looks for files on the disc and then tells you that there are no audio
    files found. Or try it in a windows computer and see as it installs all
    sorts of crap inorder to play back some inferior sounding lossy
    compressed crap off the data session.

    Pointless. Now you have ripped it, try to return it and make up some
    bollux about how you cant listen to it at work or something.
    Richard, Jan 31, 2007
    #2
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  3. Richard wrote:
    > Pointless. Now you have ripped it, try to return it and make up some
    > bollux about how you cant listen to it at work or something.


    Bugger that Consumer Guarantees Act nonsense. The Fair Trading Act (and
    possibly the Sale Of Goods Act) has some actual punnishments for those
    who deliberately misrepresent the products they are selling.

    If it looks like a CD, is sold as a CD, and doesn't have a gigantic
    warning label on it saying it is not Red Book compliant, then they
    should be done for illegal and deceptive marketing practices.

    The Other Guy
    The Other Guy, Jan 31, 2007
    #3
  4. Jamie Kahn Genet

    Peter Guest

    Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
    > WTF is this "Copy Control technology" supposed to do? I just bought
    > EMI's 'Super 70's Rock' 2 CD collection and the Compact Disc logo is
    > absent. In it's place is this notice they're Copy Controlled Discs. Well
    > - I just put disc 1 into my Mac and iTunes is ripping it just fine :-D
    > Does this shitty bastardising of the Audio CD format DO anything?


    It does prevent you playing the disk in some players. Obviously, it does
    not stop ripping, and certainly won't stop any bad guy who want to make
    hundreds of copies for sale.

    So, why do the music companies to this?


    Peter
    Peter, Jan 31, 2007
    #4
  5. Jamie Kahn Genet

    Earl Grey Guest

    Peter wrote:
    > Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
    >> WTF is this "Copy Control technology" supposed to do? I just bought
    >> EMI's 'Super 70's Rock' 2 CD collection and the Compact Disc logo is
    >> absent. In it's place is this notice they're Copy Controlled Discs. Well
    >> - I just put disc 1 into my Mac and iTunes is ripping it just fine :-D
    >> Does this shitty bastardising of the Audio CD format DO anything?

    >
    > It does prevent you playing the disk in some players. Obviously, it does
    > not stop ripping, and certainly won't stop any bad guy who want to make
    > hundreds of copies for sale.
    >
    > So, why do the music companies to this?
    >
    >
    > Peter
    >


    Its a speed bump
    Earl Grey, Jan 31, 2007
    #5
  6. Jamie Kahn Genet

    Mathew Good Guest

    On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:04:27 +1300, The Other Guy <> wrote:

    >Richard wrote:
    >> Pointless. Now you have ripped it, try to return it and make up some
    >> bollux about how you cant listen to it at work or something.

    >
    >Bugger that Consumer Guarantees Act nonsense. The Fair Trading Act (and
    >possibly the Sale Of Goods Act) has some actual punnishments for those
    >who deliberately misrepresent the products they are selling.
    >
    >If it looks like a CD, is sold as a CD, and doesn't have a gigantic
    >warning label on it saying it is not Red Book compliant, then they
    >should be done for illegal and deceptive marketing practices.
    >
    >The Other Guy




    Its on the CD, just complain to EMI, we found that these CD's would not Play on some Portable
    players and some Car ones and also Old CD Players, but its easy to copy..
    Mathew Good, Jan 31, 2007
    #6
  7. Jamie Kahn Genet

    Earl Grey Guest

    Peter wrote:
    > Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
    >> WTF is this "Copy Control technology" supposed to do? I just bought
    >> EMI's 'Super 70's Rock' 2 CD collection and the Compact Disc logo is
    >> absent. In it's place is this notice they're Copy Controlled Discs. Well
    >> - I just put disc 1 into my Mac and iTunes is ripping it just fine :-D
    >> Does this shitty bastardising of the Audio CD format DO anything?

    >
    > It does prevent you playing the disk in some players. Obviously, it does
    > not stop ripping, and certainly won't stop any bad guy who want to make
    > hundreds of copies for sale.
    >
    > So, why do the music companies to this?
    >
    >
    > Peter
    >


    It didn't stop these guys
    http://www.torrentspy.com/torrent/613760/Super_70s_Rock
    Earl Grey, Jan 31, 2007
    #7
  8. Jamie Kahn Genet

    Richard Guest

    Earl Grey wrote:

    > It didn't stop these guys
    > http://www.torrentspy.com/torrent/613760/Super_70s_Rock


    At least that one seems to have spaces in the filenames, even if capital
    letters is too much for the orig ripper.

    Looks to be 128k tho from the file sizes, so I will pass.
    Richard, Jan 31, 2007
    #8
  9. Jamie Kahn Genet

    Earl Grey Guest

    Richard wrote:
    > Earl Grey wrote:
    >
    >> It didn't stop these guys
    >> http://www.torrentspy.com/torrent/613760/Super_70s_Rock

    >
    > At least that one seems to have spaces in the filenames, even if capital
    > letters is too much for the orig ripper.
    >
    > Looks to be 128k tho from the file sizes, so I will pass.


    LOL, like it matters for those tracks.
    My point was that the copy protection impedes fair use of the copy you
    purchased, and may even encourage use of p2p file sharing.
    Its counterproductive, an insult to the honest customer and no
    impediment whatsoever to pirates.
    Earl Grey, Jan 31, 2007
    #9
  10. Jamie Kahn Genet

    David Guest

    Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
    > WTF is this "Copy Control technology" supposed to do? I just bought
    > EMI's 'Super 70's Rock' 2 CD collection and the Compact Disc logo is
    > absent. In it's place is this notice they're Copy Controlled Discs. Well
    > - I just put disc 1 into my Mac and iTunes is ripping it just fine :-D
    > Does this shitty bastardising of the Audio CD format DO anything?
    >
    > Curiously yours,
    > Jamie Kahn Genet.


    Who would buy that?
    David, Feb 1, 2007
    #10
  11. Jamie Kahn Genet

    Adam Guest

    Errr, they are being done over it.
    What are you doing paying good money for
    non-compliant CDs for ?

    Not necessarily the software on your
    non-compliant CD, but software Sony
    thought they could get away with - out
    of UK so - so probably same as your
    EMI stuff.

    See the PCworld article.
    http://tinyurl.com/2s4pyk

    Sony Settles With FTC Over Rootkit Debacle
    Company agrees to settle charges over copy-protection
    software it included in music CDs.

    Juan Carlos Perez, IDG News Service
    Tuesday, January 30, 2007 03:00 PM PST

    Sony BMG Music Entertainment has agreed to settle charges with the U.S.
    Federal Trade Commission related to the company's inclusion of problematic
    copy-protection software in music CDs, the FTC said today.
    The proposed agreement, which FTC commissioners approved unanimously, will
    be open for public comment until March 1. Then the FTC will decide whether
    to make it final.
    Sony Settles, Doesn't Admit It Broke Laws
    The copy-protection software that Sony shipped with music CDs created
    security risks for users and monitored their listening behavior on their
    PCs without their permission, the FTC said.
    The copy-protection software installed itself without users' consent, was
    complicated to uninstall, and limited the devices a CD could be played in,
    as well as the number of copies that could be made, the FTC said.
    The FTC had alleged Sony BMG had violated federal law by selling music CDs
    with this type of hidden software.

    etc etc
    Adam, Feb 1, 2007
    #11
  12. David <> wrote:

    > Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
    > > WTF is this "Copy Control technology" supposed to do? I just bought
    > > EMI's 'Super 70's Rock' 2 CD collection and the Compact Disc logo is
    > > absent. In it's place is this notice they're Copy Controlled Discs. Well
    > > - I just put disc 1 into my Mac and iTunes is ripping it just fine :-D
    > > Does this shitty bastardising of the Audio CD format DO anything?
    > >
    > > Curiously yours,
    > > Jamie Kahn Genet.

    >
    > Who would buy that?


    Not I, had I noticed they were NOT true Audio Compact Discs. Still, they
    ripped ok so I'm happy enough for now - but only just so. The funny
    thing is they say they're also Mac OSX 'compatiable' but they did
    nothing screwy and I was watching VERY closely.

    Regards,
    Jamie Kahn Genet
    --
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
    Jamie Kahn Genet, Feb 1, 2007
    #12
  13. Not quite the same thing. The Sony example was a particularly nasty one,
    but they clearly broke other laws with their actions. In most cases, the
    content protection is simply a violation of the Red Book specification.

    I am saying we need to fine the music stores for misrepresenting the
    products they sell.

    If that happens, then the people who are selling these products will put
    pressure on their suppliers to ensure ALL such disks are appropriately
    labeled, or even better, completely refuse to sell them. Either way, the
    customer ends up with compliant CDs, and a very clear separation between
    what is compliant and what isn't.

    If a company advertises a 'CD' for sale, and it turns out to be
    non-compliant, they should receive a huge fine for doing so.

    The laws already exist to punish deceptive marketing practices, why
    aren't they being applied?

    The Other Guy

    Adam wrote:
    > Errr, they are being done over it.
    > What are you doing paying good money for
    > non-compliant CDs for ?
    The Other Guy, Feb 1, 2007
    #13
  14. On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:04:27 +1300, The Other Guy wrote:

    >> Pointless. Now you have ripped it, try to return it and make up some
    >> bollux about how you cant listen to it at work or something.

    >
    > Bugger that Consumer Guarantees Act nonsense. The Fair Trading Act (and
    > possibly the Sale Of Goods Act) has some actual punnishments for those
    > who deliberately misrepresent the products they are selling.
    >
    > If it looks like a CD, is sold as a CD, and doesn't have a gigantic
    > warning label on it saying it is not Red Book compliant, then they
    > should be done for illegal and deceptive marketing practices.


    All compliant CDs ahve the CD logo on them. These ones don't. You'd be
    pushing water up a hill with a rake.


    --
    Dianthus Mimulus

    Microsoft's business practises exposed in court:
    http://www.maxframe.com/DR/Info/fullstory/dsprgmnt.html#_Toc447960918
    Dianthus Mimulus, Feb 3, 2007
    #14
  15. Dianthus Mimulus <> wrote:

    > On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:04:27 +1300, The Other Guy wrote:
    >
    > >> Pointless. Now you have ripped it, try to return it and make up some
    > >> bollux about how you cant listen to it at work or something.

    > >
    > > Bugger that Consumer Guarantees Act nonsense. The Fair Trading Act (and
    > > possibly the Sale Of Goods Act) has some actual punnishments for those
    > > who deliberately misrepresent the products they are selling.
    > >
    > > If it looks like a CD, is sold as a CD, and doesn't have a gigantic
    > > warning label on it saying it is not Red Book compliant, then they
    > > should be done for illegal and deceptive marketing practices.

    >
    > All compliant CDs ahve the CD logo on them. These ones don't. You'd be
    > pushing water up a hill with a rake.


    True, but it still grates on my nerves. I had a not unreasonable
    expectation - so I thought - that I was buying true Audio Compact Discs.
    --
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
    Jamie Kahn Genet, Feb 3, 2007
    #15
  16. On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 12:26:32 +1300, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

    >> All compliant CDs ahve the CD logo on them. These ones don't. You'd be
    >> pushing water up a hill with a rake.

    >
    > True, but it still grates on my nerves. I had a not unreasonable
    > expectation - so I thought - that I was buying true Audio Compact Discs.


    Take it back and ask for your money back - they mis-represented what they
    were selling. It is not an Audio CD.


    --
    Dianthus Mimulus

    Microsoft's business practises exposed in court:
    http://www.maxframe.com/DR/Info/fullstory/dsprgmnt.html#_Toc447960918
    Dianthus Mimulus, Feb 4, 2007
    #16
  17. In article <1ht0ftx.1kl48cg1udxfkdN%>, (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
    >Dianthus Mimulus <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:04:27 +1300, The Other Guy wrote:
    >>
    >> >> Pointless. Now you have ripped it, try to return it and make up some
    >> >> bollux about how you cant listen to it at work or something.
    >> >
    >> > Bugger that Consumer Guarantees Act nonsense. The Fair Trading Act (and
    >> > possibly the Sale Of Goods Act) has some actual punnishments for those
    >> > who deliberately misrepresent the products they are selling.
    >> >
    >> > If it looks like a CD, is sold as a CD, and doesn't have a gigantic
    >> > warning label on it saying it is not Red Book compliant, then they
    >> > should be done for illegal and deceptive marketing practices.

    >>
    >> All compliant CDs ahve the CD logo on them. These ones don't. You'd be
    >> pushing water up a hill with a rake.

    >
    >True, but it still grates on my nerves. I had a not unreasonable
    >expectation - so I thought - that I was buying true Audio Compact Discs.


    Was it mixed in with other CDs ? Were they standard CD type ? Were you told
    this was different in any way ? I'd be ponding on their desk and getting my
    money back. YMMV. :)
    Bruce Sinclair, Feb 7, 2007
    #17
  18. Bruce Sinclair <>
    wrote:

    > In article <1ht0ftx.1kl48cg1udxfkdN%>,
    > (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
    > >Dianthus Mimulus <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:04:27 +1300, The Other Guy wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >> Pointless. Now you have ripped it, try to return it and make up some
    > >> >> bollux about how you cant listen to it at work or something.
    > >> >
    > >> > Bugger that Consumer Guarantees Act nonsense. The Fair Trading Act (and
    > >> > possibly the Sale Of Goods Act) has some actual punnishments for those
    > >> > who deliberately misrepresent the products they are selling.
    > >> >
    > >> > If it looks like a CD, is sold as a CD, and doesn't have a gigantic
    > >> > warning label on it saying it is not Red Book compliant, then they
    > >> > should be done for illegal and deceptive marketing practices.
    > >>
    > >> All compliant CDs ahve the CD logo on them. These ones don't. You'd be
    > >> pushing water up a hill with a rake.

    > >
    > >True, but it still grates on my nerves. I had a not unreasonable
    > >expectation - so I thought - that I was buying true Audio Compact Discs.

    >
    > Was it mixed in with other CDs ? Were they standard CD type ? Were you told
    > this was different in any way ? I'd be ponding on their desk and getting my
    > money back. YMMV. :)


    Mmmm... I suppose I should, but their so-called copy protection didn't
    work. I'd be complaining bitterly if it had and returning it faster than
    you can say **** the RIAA. Still, I have an order for an Icehouse CD
    that should be in next week. I'll be telling them - for what little it's
    worth - how I expect their CDs to actually BE CDs.

    These record companies really have their heads up their arses, don't
    they? Do they actually imagine in today's world any person my age will
    only ever want to listen to the music from the CD? :-D It's comical.

    Regards,
    Jamie Kahn Genet
    --
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
    Jamie Kahn Genet, Feb 7, 2007
    #18
  19. Jamie Kahn Genet

    Murray Symon Guest

    On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 21:48:51 +1300, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

    > Bruce Sinclair <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> In article <1ht0ftx.1kl48cg1udxfkdN%>,
    >> (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
    >> >Dianthus Mimulus <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:04:27 +1300, The Other Guy wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> >> Pointless. Now you have ripped it, try to return it and make up some
    >> >> >> bollux about how you cant listen to it at work or something.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > Bugger that Consumer Guarantees Act nonsense. The Fair Trading Act (and
    >> >> > possibly the Sale Of Goods Act) has some actual punnishments for those
    >> >> > who deliberately misrepresent the products they are selling.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > If it looks like a CD, is sold as a CD, and doesn't have a gigantic
    >> >> > warning label on it saying it is not Red Book compliant, then they
    >> >> > should be done for illegal and deceptive marketing practices.
    >> >>
    >> >> All compliant CDs ahve the CD logo on them. These ones don't. You'd be
    >> >> pushing water up a hill with a rake.
    >> >
    >> >True, but it still grates on my nerves. I had a not unreasonable
    >> >expectation - so I thought - that I was buying true Audio Compact Discs.

    >>
    >> Was it mixed in with other CDs ? Were they standard CD type ? Were you told
    >> this was different in any way ? I'd be ponding on their desk and getting my
    >> money back. YMMV. :)

    >
    > Mmmm... I suppose I should, but their so-called copy protection didn't
    > work. I'd be complaining bitterly if it had and returning it faster than
    > you can say **** the RIAA. Still, I have an order for an Icehouse CD
    > that should be in next week. I'll be telling them - for what little it's
    > worth - how I expect their CDs to actually BE CDs.
    >
    > These record companies really have their heads up their arses, don't
    > they? Do they actually imagine in today's world any person my age will
    > only ever want to listen to the music from the CD? :-D It's comical.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Jamie Kahn Genet



    I Agree.

    I have a good friend who bought his daughter a music "CD" for a present.
    It wouldn't play properly in her stereo. The workaround was to copy it.
    I thought it was funny that:
    (a) this is precisely what the record company was trying to DISCOURAGE.
    (b) copying it was a doddle with standard tools.

    Today I read that the RIAA really thinks that audio CDs should actually
    be selling for 3x the current price, according to their calculations.

    http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37471

    Murray.
    Murray Symon, Feb 7, 2007
    #19
  20. Murray Symon <> wrote:

    > On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 21:48:51 +1300, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
    >
    > > Bruce Sinclair <>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > >> In article <1ht0ftx.1kl48cg1udxfkdN%>,
    > >> (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
    > >> >Dianthus Mimulus <> wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> >> On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:04:27 +1300, The Other Guy wrote:
    > >> >>
    > >> >> >> Pointless. Now you have ripped it, try to return it and make up some
    > >> >> >> bollux about how you cant listen to it at work or something.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > Bugger that Consumer Guarantees Act nonsense. The Fair Trading Act
    > >> >> > (and possibly the Sale Of Goods Act) has some actual punnishments
    > >> >> > for those who deliberately misrepresent the products they are
    > >> >> > selling.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > If it looks like a CD, is sold as a CD, and doesn't have a gigantic
    > >> >> > warning label on it saying it is not Red Book compliant, then they
    > >> >> > should be done for illegal and deceptive marketing practices.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> All compliant CDs ahve the CD logo on them. These ones don't. You'd be
    > >> >> pushing water up a hill with a rake.
    > >> >
    > >> >True, but it still grates on my nerves. I had a not unreasonable
    > >> >expectation - so I thought - that I was buying true Audio Compact Discs.
    > >>
    > >> Was it mixed in with other CDs ? Were they standard CD type ? Were you told
    > >> this was different in any way ? I'd be ponding on their desk and getting my
    > >> money back. YMMV. :)

    > >
    > > Mmmm... I suppose I should, but their so-called copy protection didn't
    > > work. I'd be complaining bitterly if it had and returning it faster than
    > > you can say **** the RIAA. Still, I have an order for an Icehouse CD
    > > that should be in next week. I'll be telling them - for what little it's
    > > worth - how I expect their CDs to actually BE CDs.
    > >
    > > These record companies really have their heads up their arses, don't
    > > they? Do they actually imagine in today's world any person my age will
    > > only ever want to listen to the music from the CD? :-D It's comical.
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > > Jamie Kahn Genet

    >
    >
    > I Agree.
    >
    > I have a good friend who bought his daughter a music "CD" for a present.
    > It wouldn't play properly in her stereo. The workaround was to copy it.
    > I thought it was funny that:
    > (a) this is precisely what the record company was trying to DISCOURAGE.
    > (b) copying it was a doddle with standard tools.
    >
    > Today I read that the RIAA really thinks that audio CDs should actually
    > be selling for 3x the current price, according to their calculations.
    >
    > http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37471
    >
    > Murray.


    The RIAA is one f**ked up organisation. Scarily so. I also find it
    amusing that their copy protection efforts actually encourages piracy
    :-D

    Regards,
    Jamie Kahn Genet
    --
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
    Jamie Kahn Genet, Feb 7, 2007
    #20
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