Electronics lesson........"line of sight"

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by richard, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. richard

    richard Guest

    Our glorious wonder of knowledge, evan platt, has once again shown his
    ignorance. In another group he tries to explain how "line of sight" (LOS)
    works. And Fails.

    The general misconception of "LOS" is, "can you see the other antenna"?
    Either with the naked eye or binoculars.
    Ding ding ding. Bzzzzt! Wrong!

    There are two different types of radio signal, omni and directional.
    Omni means, it goes everywhere from the source. Up down sideways what ever.
    Directional, channels the signal into one general direction.
    The most common form of channelling is done by the use of a "yagi" antenna.
    If you had an old style tv, with outdoor antenna, you most likely had a
    "yagi".

    http://www.intechlabs.com/ourfaqs/satellite/antennas.htm

    Technically, "LOS" means, a signal transmitted from location A to location
    B with no interference in between {hills, buildings, trees, etc} or passing
    beyond the horizon or reflecting off the ionosphere.

    Can you see 25 miles down the road? Maybe. Given the right circumstances.
    But that radio signal can. Given proper power of course.

    Radar is a type, or example of "LOS"? Maybe. That police radar gun sends
    out a signal and receives a signal. If that radar can't see the target,
    there is no return signal. Actually, the signal goes everywhere once out of
    the gun. The reflected signal is what is captured. But that is what "LOS"
    is like.

    My background is in electronics. I have held an FCC license that permitted
    me to work in radio stations as a technician. I know radios and antennas.
    At least a bit more than the basics.

    <protective flame suit on>
     
    richard, Nov 14, 2009
    #1
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  2. richard

    richard Guest

    On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:13:37 -0800, Evan Platt wrote:

    > On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:59:47 -0700, richard <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Our glorious wonder of knowledge, evan platt, has once again shown his
    >>ignorance.

    >
    > Our glorious wonder of nothing, richard the st00pid, still hasn't
    > explained how he expects Obama's parents to come forward and admit
    > Obama is a natural born citizen, nor has he provided documentation to
    > back up his claim that could shatter the world as we know it - that
    > men have more ribs than women, and that women don't have Adam's Apple.
    > And those are just three of his recent claims, which he has yet to
    > respond to - never will. Because he would then be admitting he's an
    > idiot.
    >
    >>In another group he tries to explain how "line of sight" (LOS)
    >>works. And Fails.

    >
    > No, not quite, dipshit.
    >
    > I said:
    >
    > "GPS and XM / Sirius are both VERY line of sight - meaning you need a
    > clear shot of the satellite antenna(s) to get reception."
    >
    > richard the idiot said:
    > "Oh please kind sir, could you give us your absolute expert analysis
    > of "line of sight"?
    >
    > I went on to show about 10 different webpages which discuss line of
    > sight for satellite and GPS. But obviously this wasn't good enough for
    > richard the dipshit.
    >
    >>The general misconception of "LOS" is, "can you see the other antenna"?
    >>Either with the naked eye or binoculars.
    >>Ding ding ding. Bzzzzt! Wrong!
    >>
    >>There are two different types of radio signal, omni and directional.

    >
    > That's not a different 'signal'. It's the same 'signal' from a
    > different antenna.
    >
    >>My background is in electronics. I have held an FCC license that permitted
    >>me to work in radio stations as a technician. I know radios and antennas.
    >>At least a bit more than the basics.

    >
    > <cough cough> bullshit.
    >
    > You paid a fee and got a license. Maybe even answered a few questions.
    > BFD. I have a no code tech license for ham radio. You don't see me
    > stating I'm an electronics engineer.
    >
    > "My background is in electronics." lol...
    >
    > I took a tour of NASA once. Even used the bathroom. But you don't go
    > see me saying my background is in Space research.
    >
    > You know what's funny richard? Even if I didn't reply, everyone here
    > would be laughing at you and pointing out how st00pid you really are.
    >
    > You may just want to STFU when you're wrong - which would be all the
    > damn time.


    SUCKER! Hook line and sinker.

    Well your explanation of how GPS receivers are "LOS" is totally laughable.
    You said it yourself, "You have to see the other antenna". Your eyesight is
    that good you can physically see that satellite in outer space?

    Practice what you preach. STFU stoopid.
     
    richard, Nov 14, 2009
    #2
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  3. richard

    Dan C Guest

    On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:13:37 -0800, Evan Platt wrote:

    <SNIP>

    > You know what's funny richard? Even if I didn't reply, everyone here
    > would be laughing at you and pointing out how st00pid you really are.


    What's funny is that everyone here is laughing at the *BOTH* of you.

    > You may just want to STFU when you're wrong - which would be all the
    > damn time.


    Are you guys married? What's with the obsession with each other? Get a
    room, or get over it. It's become quite boring. Pathetic, even.


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
    "Bother!" said Pooh, as he garotted another passing Liberal.
    Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
     
    Dan C, Nov 14, 2009
    #3
  4. richard

    Aardvark Guest

    On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:34:23 -0700, richard wrote:

    > On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:13:37 -0800, Evan Platt wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:59:47 -0700, richard <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Our glorious wonder of knowledge, evan platt, has once again shown his
    >>>ignorance.

    >>
    >> Our glorious wonder of nothing, richard the st00pid, still hasn't
    >> explained how he expects Obama's parents to come forward and admit
    >> Obama is a natural born citizen, nor has he provided documentation to
    >> back up his claim that could shatter the world as we know it - that men
    >> have more ribs than women, and that women don't have Adam's Apple. And
    >> those are just three of his recent claims, which he has yet to respond
    >> to - never will. Because he would then be admitting he's an idiot.
    >>
    >>>In another group he tries to explain how "line of sight" (LOS) works.
    >>>And Fails.

    >>
    >> No, not quite, dipshit.
    >>
    >> I said:
    >>
    >> "GPS and XM / Sirius are both VERY line of sight - meaning you need a
    >> clear shot of the satellite antenna(s) to get reception."
    >>
    >> richard the idiot said:
    >> "Oh please kind sir, could you give us your absolute expert analysis of
    >> "line of sight"?
    >>
    >> I went on to show about 10 different webpages which discuss line of
    >> sight for satellite and GPS. But obviously this wasn't good enough for
    >> richard the dipshit.
    >>
    >>>The general misconception of "LOS" is, "can you see the other antenna"?
    >>>Either with the naked eye or binoculars. Ding ding ding. Bzzzzt! Wrong!
    >>>
    >>>There are two different types of radio signal, omni and directional.

    >>
    >> That's not a different 'signal'. It's the same 'signal' from a
    >> different antenna.
    >>
    >>>My background is in electronics. I have held an FCC license that
    >>>permitted me to work in radio stations as a technician. I know radios
    >>>and antennas. At least a bit more than the basics.

    >>
    >> <cough cough> bullshit.
    >>
    >> You paid a fee and got a license. Maybe even answered a few questions.
    >> BFD. I have a no code tech license for ham radio. You don't see me
    >> stating I'm an electronics engineer.
    >>
    >> "My background is in electronics." lol...
    >>
    >> I took a tour of NASA once. Even used the bathroom. But you don't go
    >> see me saying my background is in Space research.
    >>
    >> You know what's funny richard? Even if I didn't reply, everyone here
    >> would be laughing at you and pointing out how st00pid you really are.
    >>
    >> You may just want to STFU when you're wrong - which would be all the
    >> damn time.

    >
    > SUCKER! Hook line and sinker.
    >
    > Well your explanation of how GPS receivers are "LOS" is totally
    > laughable. You said it yourself, "You have to see the other antenna".
    > Your eyesight is that good you can physically see that satellite in
    > outer space?


    Well, there's this thing called a T-E-L-E-S-C-O-P-E. It has this ability
    to enable you to see things a long way away. As long as the object is in
    line of sight, with no obstructions.

    LOS doesn't have to mean 'only with the naked eye'.

    >
    > Practice what you preach. STFU stoopid.


    Right back atcha.



    --
    Elmo McElroy: If I wanted cuisine, I'd have gone to Paris
    Felix DeSouza: You can still go to France. It's full of pricks. They hate
    Yanks too. Do you fancy a bite, or what?
    Elmo Mc Elroy: Yeah, all right.
     
    Aardvark, Nov 14, 2009
    #4
  5. richard

    Aardvark Guest

    On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:18:59 -0800, Evan Platt wrote:

    > On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:34:23 -0700, richard <> wrote:
    >
    >>SUCKER! Hook line and sinker.
    >>
    >>Well your explanation of how GPS receivers are "LOS" is totally
    >>laughable. You said it yourself, "You have to see the other antenna".
    >>Your eyesight is that good you can physically see that satellite in
    >>outer space?
    >>
    >>Practice what you preach. STFU stoopid.

    >
    > http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/
    >
    > "The signals travel by line of sight, meaning they will pass through
    > clouds, glass and plastic but will not go through most solid objects
    > such as buildings and mountains."
    >
    > http://www.filesaveas.com/gps.html
    >
    > "A GPS receiver makes use of signals received from the satellites, using
    > three or more to pinpoint your position. Obviously, you need
    > line-of-sight for this to work, so your receiver must be able to see the
    > sky. "
    > (Wow my receiver must have damn good vision!)
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System
    >
    > http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gps-phone1.htm
    >
    > "A GPS receiver has to have a clear line of sight to the satellite to
    > operate, so dense tree cover and buildings can keep it from getting a
    > fix on your location. "
    >
    > Now will YOU STFU?


    What do you think?



    --
    Elmo McElroy: If I wanted cuisine, I'd have gone to Paris
    Felix DeSouza: You can still go to France. It's full of pricks. They hate
    Yanks too. Do you fancy a bite, or what?
    Elmo Mc Elroy: Yeah, all right.
     
    Aardvark, Nov 14, 2009
    #5
  6. richard

    G. Morgan Guest

    Evan's radios---- WAS: Electronics lesson........"line of sight"

    On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:15:13 -0800, Evan Platt
    <> wrote:

    >http://www.espphotography.com/myradios.jpg
    >
    >Just a few I grabbed.
    >VHF, 800 trunked, VHF, scanner, UHF, UHF.


    Cool.

    What do you use them for? And what can a hobbyist do with them? And where is
    the best place to buy them?

    If you don't mind me asking. ;)
     
    G. Morgan, Nov 14, 2009
    #6
  7. richard

    richard Guest

    Re: Electronics lesson........"line of sight" .... From a chickenbander?? Gimme a break!

    On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:10:42 -0800, nobody > wrote:

    > richard wrote:
    >> Our glorious wonder of knowledge, evan platt, has once again shown his
    >> ignorance. In another group he tries to explain how "line of sight" (LOS)
    >> works. And Fails.
    >>
    >> The general misconception of "LOS" is, "can you see the other antenna"?
    >> Either with the naked eye or binoculars.
    >> Ding ding ding. Bzzzzt! Wrong!

    >
    > Kinda funny, a lot of us *real* radio people use the term "see" just
    > this way.
    >
    >
    >> My background is in electronics. I have held an FCC license that permitted
    >> me to work in radio stations as a technician.

    >
    > Pray tell.. what class?
    > What's your Fox Charlie Charlie ID? Mine's PG 14-952
    >
    > And whats with this *have held* business? Unless you really screw up,
    > you *hold* an FCC license. They are lifetime unless suspended.
    > Now could that be something you DON'T want to talk about?
    >
    > > I know radios and antennas.
    > > At least a bit more than the basics.

    >
    > Describe tropospheric scatter propagation (without g00g or wiki), then
    > get back to me.
    >
    >
    > ()*5)(*&$&^% chickenbander radio "eggspurts"... they leak bullshit with
    > their mouths shut.


    Mine was issued in 1972 which was a 2nd class.
    3rd class is what DJ's needed.
    In those days, they were only good for 5 years.

    And in those days, you had to know the shit because some answers for the
    test required you to show the work. Just for Evan, there were 100 questions
    on the test.
     
    richard, Nov 14, 2009
    #7
  8. richard

    richard Guest

    On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:18:59 -0800, Evan Platt wrote:

    > On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:34:23 -0700, richard <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>SUCKER! Hook line and sinker.
    >>
    >>Well your explanation of how GPS receivers are "LOS" is totally laughable.
    >>You said it yourself, "You have to see the other antenna". Your eyesight is
    >>that good you can physically see that satellite in outer space?
    >>
    >>Practice what you preach. STFU stoopid.

    >
    > http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/
    >
    > "The signals travel by line of sight, meaning they will pass through
    > clouds, glass and plastic but will not go through most solid objects
    > such as buildings and mountains."
    >
    > http://www.filesaveas.com/gps.html
    >
    > "A GPS receiver makes use of signals received from the satellites,
    > using three or more to pinpoint your position. Obviously, you need
    > line-of-sight for this to work, so your receiver must be able to see
    > the sky. "
    > (Wow my receiver must have damn good vision!)
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System
    >
    > http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gps-phone1.htm
    >
    > "A GPS receiver has to have a clear line of sight to the satellite to
    > operate, so dense tree cover and buildings can keep it from getting a
    > fix on your location. "
    >
    > Now will YOU STFU?


    You is one ignorant sorry ass puppy.
     
    richard, Nov 14, 2009
    #8
  9. richard

    G. Morgan Guest

    On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 16:26:58 -0600, The Old Sourdough <>
    wrote:

    >> I know radios and antennas.

    >
    >Maybe when one walks up and smacks youi in the face.



    <chuckle>
     
    G. Morgan, Nov 14, 2009
    #9
  10. richard

    NotMe Guest

    Re: Electronics lesson........"line of sight" .... From a chickenbander?? Gimme a break!

    "richard" <> wrote in message
    news:1i44jn73p3xrk.wal4uk4eu3se$...
    : On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:10:42 -0800, nobody > wrote:
    :
    : > richard wrote:
    : >> Our glorious wonder of knowledge, evan platt, has once again shown his
    : >> ignorance. In another group he tries to explain how "line of sight"
    (LOS)
    : >> works. And Fails.
    : >>
    : >> The general misconception of "LOS" is, "can you see the other antenna"?
    : >> Either with the naked eye or binoculars.
    : >> Ding ding ding. Bzzzzt! Wrong!
    : >
    : > Kinda funny, a lot of us *real* radio people use the term "see" just
    : > this way.
    : >
    : >
    : >> My background is in electronics. I have held an FCC license that
    permitted
    : >> me to work in radio stations as a technician.
    : >
    : > Pray tell.. what class?
    : > What's your Fox Charlie Charlie ID? Mine's PG 14-952
    : >
    : > And whats with this *have held* business? Unless you really screw up,
    : > you *hold* an FCC license. They are lifetime unless suspended.
    : > Now could that be something you DON'T want to talk about?
    : >
    : > > I know radios and antennas.
    : > > At least a bit more than the basics.
    : >
    : > Describe tropospheric scatter propagation (without g00g or wiki), then
    : > get back to me.
    : >
    : >
    : > ()*5)(*&$&^% chickenbander radio "eggspurts"... they leak bullshit with
    : > their mouths shut.
    :
    : Mine was issued in 1972 which was a 2nd class.
    : 3rd class is what DJ's needed.
    : In those days, they were only good for 5 years.
    :
    : And in those days, you had to know the shit because some answers for the
    : test required you to show the work. Just for Evan, there were 100
    questions
    : on the test.

    FWIW I knew personally a number of 10 year olds that aced the test for First
    and Second phone with marine radar and they didn't know shit beyond what was
    in the study book. (and yes I was one of them)

    The lucky ones got to carry the ladder for those that did know their shit.
     
    NotMe, Nov 15, 2009
    #10
  11. richard

    Mara Guest

    On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:15:13 -0800, Evan Platt
    <> wrote:

    <snip>

    >This must make me a PhD by your definition, huh st00pid?
    >
    >http://www.espphotography.com/myradios.jpg
    >
    >Just a few I grabbed.
    >VHF, 800 trunked, VHF, scanner, UHF, UHF.


    Damn. I'd *love* to have a good handheld. All I have right now is an Icom base,
    a Motorola M120, and a little Radio Shack mobile. <sigh>

    --
    "Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without
    the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
     
    Mara, Nov 15, 2009
    #11
  12. richard

    richard Guest

    On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:15:13 -0800, Evan Platt wrote:

    > On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:34:23 -0700, richard <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>SUCKER! Hook line and sinker.

    >
    > Idiot. Plain and simple.
    >
    >>Well your explanation of how GPS receivers are "LOS" is totally laughable.
    >>You said it yourself, "You have to see the other antenna". Your eyesight is
    >>that good you can physically see that satellite in outer space?
    >>
    >>Practice what you preach. STFU stoopid.

    >
    > I've already explained this to your dumb ass.
    >
    > From: Evan Platt <>
    > Newsgroups: misc.transport.trucking
    > Subject: Re: satellite radio antenna mount
    > Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:58:40 -0800
    >
    > In simpleton terms - ie terms you can understand, each antenna - the
    > receiver and the transmitter, must be able to 'see' each other - even
    > if 'seeing' required binoculars or a telescope. A clear, unobstructed
    > view. No trees, no tunnel, no roof, etc.
    >
    > PS:
    >
    > This must make me a PhD by your definition, huh st00pid?
    >
    > http://www.espphotography.com/myradios.jpg
    >
    > Just a few I grabbed.
    > VHF, 800 trunked, VHF, scanner, UHF, UHF.


    Is that all? A friend of mine has a room full of radios.
    Hitachi, gave him a $1,000 radio test out in the USA.
    Since he's in charge of an area ham radio emergency system, he's got to
    have access to numerous radios at one time.

    His computer is directly connected to the radios. So he can monitor various
    functions they do.
     
    richard, Nov 15, 2009
    #12
  13. richard

    richard Guest

    On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:36:52 -0800, nobody > wrote:

    > Aardvark wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>> Practice what you preach. STFU stoopid.

    >>
    >> Right back atcha.
    >>

    >
    > Don't worry about RtS (as if anyone would anyway).
    > He's a chickenbander with a twiddlestick, one of those folks who think
    > they are hot shit because they coaxed a 5 watt radio up to 8 watts, and
    > "fine tune their coax" for SWR.
    >
    > I'd love to see him work tactical military commo, I did both
    > "terrestrial microwave" LOS (up to about 150 miles with good conditions)
    > and SATCOM LOS (150 miles or so for LEOs and 22K miles for geosyncs
    > and geostats).
    >
    > We actually used the word SEE
    > ... as "I can see your dish now, about neg 100, gonna sweep the dish" or
    > "We can see the bird now, the dish is tuning in for better BER". (the
    > SATCOM stuff did all the final dish align by itself, the microwave gear
    > still needed hands on the cranks to align it.. 25+ years difference in
    > technology!


    Which is a hell of a lot more experience and knowledge than Platt does.
    As well as mine.
     
    richard, Nov 15, 2009
    #13
  14. richard wrote:

    > Is that all? A friend of mine has a room full of radios.


    So that makes you an expert, eh?

    I have a friend with a *houseful* of radios, but since I'm not into
    radios, I don't care.

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Windows
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Nov 15, 2009
    #14
  15. richard

    Mara Guest

    On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:35:57 -0800, Evan Platt
    <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:38:50 -0600, Mara
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>Damn. I'd *love* to have a good handheld. All I have right now is an Icom base,
    >>a Motorola M120, and a little Radio Shack mobile. <sigh>

    >
    >A lot of the Moto ... umm.. I think the line is called Waris - can be
    >had somewhat inexpensive from eBay. Most of the ones sold are radio
    >only, you have to BYO battery, charger, etc. I think the most I spent
    >on one accessory was about $30.


    Yeah, but my nearest repeater is 32 miles away. The next, 50. Do they make a
    handheld that can reach those? I have no idea, as I've never looked into them.

    --
    "Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without
    the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
     
    Mara, Nov 15, 2009
    #15
  16. Re: Electronics lesson........"line of sight" .... From a chickenbander??Gimme a break!

    nobody > wrote:
    > And there were lots of "schools" that just "taught the test" and

    nothing
    > else. Just like some "truckdriver schools" out there. (I'll admit that
    > most of those got closed down since then).
    >
    >
    > When I took the test, I finished everything I could about a half-hour
    > early. One of the proctors went outside with me for a smoke, and he
    > told me that he could usually spot the real techs versus the
    > "diploma-mill" crowd. The DM folks usually made high scores (if they
    > passed), but they all made the same mistakes.


    When CBs first came out, they required a license. That was dropped in
    the mid 70's, iirc...

    I'm sure dumbass is talking about that, and exaggerating the
    story...as usual.

    n0i
     
    thund3rstruck, Nov 15, 2009
    #16
  17. Re: Electronics lesson........"line of sight" .... From a chickenbander??Gimme a break!

    The Old Sourdough wrote:
    > thund3rstruck mumbled in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:
    >
    >
    >> When CBs first came out, they required a license. That was dropped in
    >> the mid 70's, iirc...

    >
    >> I'm sure dumbass is talking about that, and exaggerating the
    >> story...as usual.

    >
    > And the license required yoiu to fill out a form and send
    > money. No test, no need to know anything other than how to
    > plug your gear in


    I couldn't remember the specifics, since I was around 10 at the
    time...lol Thanks

    n0i
     
    thund3rstruck, Nov 16, 2009
    #17
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