Electronic program guide violates TV copyright

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Oct 18, 2006.

  1. Apparently Aussie's Nine Network is suing electronic program guide producer
    IceTV on the grounds that it is violating the network's copyright on its TV
    schedule <http://techdirt.com/articles/20061016/185840.shtml>.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Oct 18, 2006
    #1
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  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Steven Ellis Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > Apparently Aussie's Nine Network is suing electronic program guide producer
    > IceTV on the grounds that it is violating the network's copyright on its TV
    > schedule <http://techdirt.com/articles/20061016/185840.shtml>.


    Most TV companies consider their EPG to be part of their IP and guard
    all distribution of it.

    Try contacting SkyTV here in NZ and asking for an electronic copy of
    their data and see the reaction.

    Steve
     
    Steven Ellis, Oct 18, 2006
    #2
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  3. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    whome Guest

    "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    news:eh3pet$6vv$...
    > Apparently Aussie's Nine Network is suing electronic program guide
    > producer
    > IceTV on the grounds that it is violating the network's copyright on its
    > TV
    > schedule <http://techdirt.com/articles/20061016/185840.shtml>.



    Very interesting, this will certainly be a good case to follow.
     
    whome, Oct 18, 2006
    #3
  4. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Zipper Guest

    Steven Ellis wrote:
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> Apparently Aussie's Nine Network is suing electronic program guide producer
    >> IceTV on the grounds that it is violating the network's copyright on its TV
    >> schedule <http://techdirt.com/articles/20061016/185840.shtml>.

    >
    > Most TV companies consider their EPG to be part of their IP and guard
    > all distribution of it.
    >
    > Try contacting SkyTV here in NZ and asking for an electronic copy of
    > their data and see the reaction.
    >
    > Steve
    >


    Yeah I noticed that when stuff.co.nz first started they carried TVNZ's
    programmes in their guides along with tv3 & sky etc. When nzoom
    started, stuff just suddently pulled tvnz programmes. i imagine that is
    because tvnz told them they werent allowed? or is stuff owned by skytv
    or something?
     
    Zipper, Oct 18, 2006
    #4
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Dave Taylor Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote in
    news:eh3pet$6vv$:

    > Apparently Aussie's Nine Network is suing electronic program guide
    > producer IceTV on the grounds that it is violating the network's
    > copyright on its TV schedule
    > <http://techdirt.com/articles/20061016/185840.shtml>.
    >


    I don't get their angle. Wouldn't making it easier for someone to find out
    what was on encourage people to watch

    --
    Ciao, Dave
     
    Dave Taylor, Oct 18, 2006
    #5
  6. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    whome Guest

    "Dave Taylor" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9860D0BEAFC90daveytaynospamplshot@203.97.37.6...
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote in
    > news:eh3pet$6vv$:
    >
    >> Apparently Aussie's Nine Network is suing electronic program guide
    >> producer IceTV on the grounds that it is violating the network's
    >> copyright on its TV schedule
    >> <http://techdirt.com/articles/20061016/185840.shtml>.
    >>

    >
    > I don't get their angle. Wouldn't making it easier for someone to find
    > out
    > what was on encourage people to watch
    >
    > --
    > Ciao, Dave


    The angle is money as usual.

    Firstly, by letting others set a general precedent of making these guides
    publicly available will mean in future the nine network will not be able to
    sell it's own electronic guide.

    Also, if the information were publicly 'trusted' then timeshifting devices
    such as tivo could really catch on. And, timeshifting allows
    advertisements to be skipped.
     
    whome, Oct 18, 2006
    #6
  7. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    steve Guest

    Steven Ellis wrote:

    > Try contacting SkyTV here in NZ and asking for an electronic copy of
    > their data and see the reaction.


    ....and they won't let you compile your own from publicly available
    sources and make that available either.

    Information in formats they refuse to support will be free whatever they
    say.

    That is the reality, whatever the law might say.

    People feel no loyalty to a company that does not support them and any
    innovations they may seek to introduce.

    Just more evidence that many example of IP are anti-innovation.
     
    steve, Oct 18, 2006
    #7
  8. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Steven Ellis Guest

    whome wrote:
    > "Dave Taylor" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns9860D0BEAFC90daveytaynospamplshot@203.97.37.6...
    > > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote in
    > > news:eh3pet$6vv$:
    > >
    > >> Apparently Aussie's Nine Network is suing electronic program guide
    > >> producer IceTV on the grounds that it is violating the network's
    > >> copyright on its TV schedule
    > >> <http://techdirt.com/articles/20061016/185840.shtml>.
    > >>

    > >
    > > I don't get their angle. Wouldn't making it easier for someone to find
    > > out
    > > what was on encourage people to watch
    > >
    > > --
    > > Ciao, Dave

    >
    > The angle is money as usual.
    >
    > Firstly, by letting others set a general precedent of making these guides
    > publicly available will mean in future the nine network will not be able to
    > sell it's own electronic guide.


    You would be truly amazed at the sums they charge news papers and
    magazines for the information. Information is money.

    > Also, if the information were publicly 'trusted' then timeshifting devices
    > such as tivo could really catch on. And, timeshifting allows
    > advertisements to be skipped.


    This is the really big one. They want their PVR products to be the only
    ones you can trust. Provides a great lockin. Then they can make sure
    you watch their adverts, and don't keep that movie for months on end of
    a PayPerView channel.

    Steve
     
    Steven Ellis, Oct 18, 2006
    #8
  9. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Earl Grey Guest

    Steven Ellis wrote:
    > whome wrote:
    >> "Dave Taylor" <> wrote in message
    >> news:Xns9860D0BEAFC90daveytaynospamplshot@203.97.37.6...
    >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote in
    >>> news:eh3pet$6vv$:
    >>>
    >>>> Apparently Aussie's Nine Network is suing electronic program guide
    >>>> producer IceTV on the grounds that it is violating the network's
    >>>> copyright on its TV schedule
    >>>> <http://techdirt.com/articles/20061016/185840.shtml>.
    >>>>
    >>> I don't get their angle. Wouldn't making it easier for someone to find
    >>> out
    >>> what was on encourage people to watch
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Ciao, Dave

    >> The angle is money as usual.
    >>
    >> Firstly, by letting others set a general precedent of making these guides
    >> publicly available will mean in future the nine network will not be able to
    >> sell it's own electronic guide.

    >
    > You would be truly amazed at the sums they charge news papers and
    > magazines for the information. Information is money.


    However,
    Money is information
    :p
     
    Earl Grey, Oct 18, 2006
    #9
  10. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Phil Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote, On 18/10/06 12.38 p:
    > Apparently Aussie's Nine Network is suing electronic program guide producer
    > IceTV on the grounds that it is violating the network's copyright on its TV
    > schedule <http://techdirt.com/articles/20061016/185840.shtml>.


    From TV3's website:

    CAN I PUT 3'S LISTINGS ON MY WEBSITE?
    3's listings are copyrighted and CANNOT be used without permission. We
    can supply you with our listings for a fee of $2,000 per month.

    <http://www.tv3.co.nz/FAQs/tabid/62/articleID/71/Default.aspx>

    It's stupid, but it's enforceable :(
    But it doesn't seem to stop the freetvguide :)

    -Phil
     
    Phil, Oct 18, 2006
    #10
  11. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Steven Ellis Guest

    Phil wrote:
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote, On 18/10/06 12.38 p:
    > > Apparently Aussie's Nine Network is suing electronic program guide producer
    > > IceTV on the grounds that it is violating the network's copyright on its TV
    > > schedule <http://techdirt.com/articles/20061016/185840.shtml>.

    >
    > From TV3's website:
    >
    > CAN I PUT 3'S LISTINGS ON MY WEBSITE?
    > 3's listings are copyrighted and CANNOT be used without permission. We
    > can supply you with our listings for a fee of $2,000 per month.
    >
    > <http://www.tv3.co.nz/FAQs/tabid/62/articleID/71/Default.aspx>
    >
    > It's stupid, but it's enforceable :(
    > But it doesn't seem to stop the freetvguide :)


    Err.. Which "freetvguide" would that be?
     
    Steven Ellis, Oct 18, 2006
    #11
  12. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Phil Guest

    Steven Ellis wrote, On 18/10/06 11.38 p:
    > Phil wrote:
    >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote, On 18/10/06 12.38 p:
    >>> Apparently Aussie's Nine Network is suing electronic program guide producer
    >>> IceTV on the grounds that it is violating the network's copyright on its TV
    >>> schedule <http://techdirt.com/articles/20061016/185840.shtml>.

    >> From TV3's website:
    >>
    >> CAN I PUT 3'S LISTINGS ON MY WEBSITE?
    >> 3's listings are copyrighted and CANNOT be used without permission. We
    >> can supply you with our listings for a fee of $2,000 per month.
    >>
    >> <http://www.tv3.co.nz/FAQs/tabid/62/articleID/71/Default.aspx>
    >>
    >> It's stupid, but it's enforceable :(
    >> But it doesn't seem to stop the freetvguide :)

    >
    > Err.. Which "freetvguide" would that be?
    >


    www.freetvguide.co.nz

    -Phil
     
    Phil, Oct 18, 2006
    #12
  13. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Zipper Guest

    Phil wrote:
    > Steven Ellis wrote, On 18/10/06 11.38 p:
    >> Phil wrote:
    >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote, On 18/10/06 12.38 p:
    >>>> Apparently Aussie's Nine Network is suing electronic program guide
    >>>> producer
    >>>> IceTV on the grounds that it is violating the network's copyright on
    >>>> its TV
    >>>> schedule <http://techdirt.com/articles/20061016/185840.shtml>.
    >>> From TV3's website:
    >>>
    >>> CAN I PUT 3'S LISTINGS ON MY WEBSITE?
    >>> 3's listings are copyrighted and CANNOT be used without permission. We
    >>> can supply you with our listings for a fee of $2,000 per month.
    >>>
    >>> <http://www.tv3.co.nz/FAQs/tabid/62/articleID/71/Default.aspx>
    >>>
    >>> It's stupid, but it's enforceable :(
    >>> But it doesn't seem to stop the freetvguide :)

    >>
    >> Err.. Which "freetvguide" would that be?
    >>

    >
    > www.freetvguide.co.nz
    >
    > -Phil


    ahh excellent, thats what i like a guide showing everything on one page.
    I hope it lasts.
     
    Zipper, Oct 18, 2006
    #13
  14. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Earl Grey Guest

    Phil wrote:
    > Steven Ellis wrote, On 18/10/06 11.38 p:
    >> Phil wrote:
    >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote, On 18/10/06 12.38 p:
    >>>> Apparently Aussie's Nine Network is suing electronic program guide
    >>>> producer
    >>>> IceTV on the grounds that it is violating the network's copyright on
    >>>> its TV
    >>>> schedule <http://techdirt.com/articles/20061016/185840.shtml>.
    >>> From TV3's website:
    >>>
    >>> CAN I PUT 3'S LISTINGS ON MY WEBSITE?
    >>> 3's listings are copyrighted and CANNOT be used without permission. We
    >>> can supply you with our listings for a fee of $2,000 per month.
    >>>
    >>> <http://www.tv3.co.nz/FAQs/tabid/62/articleID/71/Default.aspx>
    >>>
    >>> It's stupid, but it's enforceable :(
    >>> But it doesn't seem to stop the freetvguide :)

    >>
    >> Err.. Which "freetvguide" would that be?
    >>

    >
    > www.freetvguide.co.nz
    >
    > -Phil


    Not much use for a pvr
     
    Earl Grey, Oct 18, 2006
    #14
  15. On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:59:54 +1300, Phil wrote:

    > From TV3's website:
    >
    > CAN I PUT 3'S LISTINGS ON MY WEBSITE?
    > 3's listings are copyrighted and CANNOT be used without permission. We
    > can supply you with our listings for a fee of $2,000 per month.
    >
    > <http://www.tv3.co.nz/FAQs/tabid/62/articleID/71/Default.aspx>
    >
    > It's stupid, but it's enforceable :(
    > But it doesn't seem to stop the freetvguide :)


    As long as they re-write the information, they might well be okay - you
    can't copyright actual information, only the expression of it.

    --
    Rupert Boleyn <>
     
    Rupert Boleyn, Oct 19, 2006
    #15
  16. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Earl Grey Guest

    Rupert Boleyn wrote:
    > On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:59:54 +1300, Phil wrote:
    >
    >> From TV3's website:
    >>
    >> CAN I PUT 3'S LISTINGS ON MY WEBSITE?
    >> 3's listings are copyrighted and CANNOT be used without permission. We
    >> can supply you with our listings for a fee of $2,000 per month.
    >>
    >> <http://www.tv3.co.nz/FAQs/tabid/62/articleID/71/Default.aspx>
    >>
    >> It's stupid, but it's enforceable :(
    >> But it doesn't seem to stop the freetvguide :)

    >
    > As long as they re-write the information, they might well be okay - you
    > can't copyright actual information, only the expression of it.
    >


    I doubt whether you can use their logos

    The owner of the site doesn't have permission according to the Q&A on
    the trademe auction of the site

    http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/0002-0091-/auction-49920276.htm
     
    Earl Grey, Oct 19, 2006
    #16
  17. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Steven Ellis Guest

    Rupert Boleyn wrote:
    > On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:59:54 +1300, Phil wrote:
    >
    > > From TV3's website:
    > >
    > > CAN I PUT 3'S LISTINGS ON MY WEBSITE?
    > > 3's listings are copyrighted and CANNOT be used without permission. We
    > > can supply you with our listings for a fee of $2,000 per month.
    > >
    > > <http://www.tv3.co.nz/FAQs/tabid/62/articleID/71/Default.aspx>
    > >
    > > It's stupid, but it's enforceable :(
    > > But it doesn't seem to stop the freetvguide :)

    >
    > As long as they re-write the information, they might well be okay - you
    > can't copyright actual information, only the expression of it.


    Not true as far as the TV companies are concerned. They own the IP that
    is the scheduling information.

    Steve
     
    Steven Ellis, Oct 19, 2006
    #17
  18. In message <>, Steven
    Ellis wrote:

    >
    > Rupert Boleyn wrote:
    >> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:59:54 +1300, Phil wrote:
    >>
    >> > From TV3's website:
    >> >
    >> > CAN I PUT 3'S LISTINGS ON MY WEBSITE?
    >> > 3's listings are copyrighted and CANNOT be used without permission. We
    >> > can supply you with our listings for a fee of $2,000 per month.
    >> >
    >> > <http://www.tv3.co.nz/FAQs/tabid/62/articleID/71/Default.aspx>
    >> >
    >> > It's stupid, but it's enforceable :(
    >> > But it doesn't seem to stop the freetvguide :)

    >>
    >> As long as they re-write the information, they might well be okay - you
    >> can't copyright actual information, only the expression of it.

    >
    > Not true as far as the TV companies are concerned. They own the IP that
    > is the scheduling information.


    Under what IP law? Is it a patent, trademark, copyright or trade secret?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Oct 19, 2006
    #18
  19. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Earl Grey Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <>, Steven
    > Ellis wrote:
    >
    >> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
    >>> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:59:54 +1300, Phil wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> From TV3's website:
    >>>>
    >>>> CAN I PUT 3'S LISTINGS ON MY WEBSITE?
    >>>> 3's listings are copyrighted and CANNOT be used without permission. We
    >>>> can supply you with our listings for a fee of $2,000 per month.
    >>>>
    >>>> <http://www.tv3.co.nz/FAQs/tabid/62/articleID/71/Default.aspx>
    >>>>
    >>>> It's stupid, but it's enforceable :(
    >>>> But it doesn't seem to stop the freetvguide :)
    >>> As long as they re-write the information, they might well be okay - you
    >>> can't copyright actual information, only the expression of it.

    >> Not true as far as the TV companies are concerned. They own the IP that
    >> is the scheduling information.

    >
    > Under what IP law? Is it a patent, trademark, copyright or trade secret?


    copyright
     
    Earl Grey, Oct 19, 2006
    #19
  20. In message <4537173b$>, Earl Grey wrote:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> In message <>, Steven
    >> Ellis wrote:
    >>
    >>> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
    >>>> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:59:54 +1300, Phil wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> From TV3's website:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> CAN I PUT 3'S LISTINGS ON MY WEBSITE?
    >>>>> 3's listings are copyrighted and CANNOT be used without permission. We
    >>>>> can supply you with our listings for a fee of $2,000 per month.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> <http://www.tv3.co.nz/FAQs/tabid/62/articleID/71/Default.aspx>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It's stupid, but it's enforceable :(
    >>>>> But it doesn't seem to stop the freetvguide :)
    >>>> As long as they re-write the information, they might well be okay - you
    >>>> can't copyright actual information, only the expression of it.
    >>> Not true as far as the TV companies are concerned. They own the IP that
    >>> is the scheduling information.

    >>
    >> Under what IP law? Is it a patent, trademark, copyright or trade secret?

    >
    > copyright


    In that case, basic copyright principles would apply, such as that you can
    only copyright the expression of an idea, not the idea itself.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Oct 19, 2006
    #20
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