Ebay and shill bidding, finally someone is charged

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Jul 6, 2010.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    BBC:
    A man has been fined £3,000 and ordered to carry out 250 hours
    community service after fixing an online auction on eBay.

    Paul Barrett, 39 and from County Durham, became the first person to be
    convicted of shill bidding in April.

    That's when online sellers bid on their own items to artificially bump
    up the price or get friends and family to do it for them.

    Barrett was sentenced after admitting 10 counts at Bradford Crown
    Court.

    The minibus hire firm boss pleaded guilty after an investigation by
    North Yorkshire Trading Standards found he had bid against himself on
    several items, including a pie and pasty warmer on sale for £127.

    Mr Barrett told the court that he didn't realise the practice was
    against the law.

    BBC News: How do you catch online auction cheats?
    'Happens regularly'

    Critics of eBay say shill bidding is a widespread problem on the site.

    eBay spokesperson Vanessa Canzenni denies that not enough is being
    done to prevent it.

    She said: "We spend £6 million every year to try and stop shill
    bidding from happening.
    Paul Barrett Paul Barrett claimed he was not aware he was acting
    illegally by shill bidding

    "The fact that we're the number one e-commerce site proves that
    customers can buy and sell with confidence."

    She also claims eBay is able to spot when shill bidding is happening,
    although wouldn't provide any details about how that's possible.

    She added: "We have leading technology that enables us to detect when
    people are trying to do this."

    However, Jo Boutflower, the trading standards officer who brought the
    case against Mr Barrett, does admit it's very difficult to prove shill
    bidding.

    She said: "We have to have sufficient evidence or suspicion of an
    offence before we can exercise powers to get eBay records for
    example."

    Regular eBay user Rezza Faizee, 27 and from Workington in Cumbria,
    reckons it's a massive problem and something that has happened to him
    when he was trying to buy a mobile phone.

    "It's definitely something that happens regularly," he admitted.

    "I've had friends, family, and the same thing's happened to them.

    "I honestly don't know what you can do to tackle the problem, I
    honestly don't."
    Bookmark with
    RichA, Jul 6, 2010
    #1
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  2. RichA

    krishnananda Guest

    In article
    <>,
    RichA <> wrote:

    > Paul Barrett, 39 and from County Durham, became the first person to be
    > convicted of shill bidding in April.


    *One* person convicted since eBay's founding in 1995? I would say the
    odds are with the shill bidders -- there shouldn't be another conviction
    until 2025!
    krishnananda, Jul 6, 2010
    #2
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  3. RichA

    Rich Guest

    On Jul 6, 9:20 am, krishnananda <>
    wrote:
    > In article
    > <>,
    >
    >  RichA <> wrote:
    > > Paul Barrett, 39 and from County Durham, became the first person to be
    > > convicted of shill bidding in April.

    >
    > *One* person convicted since eBay's founding in 1995? I would say the
    > odds are with the shill bidders -- there shouldn't be another conviction
    > until 2025!


    I actuall caught one of the biggest camera sellers doing this (a
    pattern of bidders, all same, bidding at the mid-level, whenever the
    action stalled). I reported it to Ebay who claimed that nothing was
    wrong, but those bidders who had been involved in nearly every auction
    for months suddenly disappeared. I guess Ebay didn't want to hurt one
    of their top sellers.
    Rich, Jul 6, 2010
    #3
  4. RichA

    Russ D Guest

    On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:54:59 -0700 (PDT), Rich <> wrote:

    >On Jul 6, 9:20 am, krishnananda <>
    >wrote:
    >> In article
    >> <>,
    >>
    >>  RichA <> wrote:
    >> > Paul Barrett, 39 and from County Durham, became the first person to be
    >> > convicted of shill bidding in April.

    >>
    >> *One* person convicted since eBay's founding in 1995? I would say the
    >> odds are with the shill bidders -- there shouldn't be another conviction
    >> until 2025!

    >
    >I actuall caught one of the biggest camera sellers doing this (a
    >pattern of bidders, all same, bidding at the mid-level, whenever the
    >action stalled). I reported it to Ebay who claimed that nothing was
    >wrong, but those bidders who had been involved in nearly every auction
    >for months suddenly disappeared. I guess Ebay didn't want to hurt one
    >of their top sellers.


    When buying a nice electronic piano not long ago, I noticed a pattern with
    some sellers. Since I research things for a long time before deciding on a
    purchase, this gave me several weeks of watching some items being sold on
    ebay and how they were panning out. There's a large group of sellers who
    are completely bogus. They just take the paypal payment and run. At first I
    thought of reporting the simple pattern they use and how to spot them. But
    then I noticed that all bidders would bid on their items, leaving the
    genuine sellers alone. This allowed me to pay bottom dollar for a genuine
    item while all others were being distracted by the theives. I decided it
    was in my best interest to not convey how to easily spot the theives.
    Russ D, Jul 6, 2010
    #4
  5. RichA

    Russ D Guest

    On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:54:59 -0700 (PDT), Rich <> wrote:

    >On Jul 6, 9:20 am, krishnananda <>
    >wrote:
    >> In article
    >> <>,
    >>
    >>  RichA <> wrote:
    >> > Paul Barrett, 39 and from County Durham, became the first person to be
    >> > convicted of shill bidding in April.

    >>
    >> *One* person convicted since eBay's founding in 1995? I would say the
    >> odds are with the shill bidders -- there shouldn't be another conviction
    >> until 2025!

    >
    >I actuall caught one of the biggest camera sellers doing this (a
    >pattern of bidders, all same, bidding at the mid-level, whenever the
    >action stalled). I reported it to Ebay who claimed that nothing was
    >wrong, but those bidders who had been involved in nearly every auction
    >for months suddenly disappeared. I guess Ebay didn't want to hurt one
    >of their top sellers.


    When buying a nice electronic piano not long ago, I noticed a pattern with
    some sellers. Since I research things for a long time before deciding on a
    purchase, this gave me several weeks of watching some items being sold on
    ebay and how they were panning out. There's a large group of sellers who
    are completely bogus. They just take the paypal payment and run. At first I
    thought of reporting the simple pattern they use and how to spot them. But
    then I noticed that all bidders would bid on their items, leaving the
    genuine sellers alone. This allowed me to pay bottom dollar for a genuine
    item while all others were being distracted by the thieves. I decided it
    was in my best interest to not convey how to easily spot the thieves.
    Russ D, Jul 6, 2010
    #5
  6. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Jul 6, 4:25 pm, Russ D <> wrote:
    > On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:54:59 -0700 (PDT), Rich <> wrote:
    > >On Jul 6, 9:20 am, krishnananda <>
    > >wrote:
    > >> In article
    > >> <>,

    >
    > >> RichA <> wrote:
    > >> > Paul Barrett, 39 and from County Durham, became the first person to be
    > >> > convicted of shill bidding in April.

    >
    > >> *One* person convicted since eBay's founding in 1995? I would say the
    > >> odds are with the shill bidders -- there shouldn't be another conviction
    > >> until 2025!

    >
    > >I actuall caught one of the biggest camera sellers doing this (a
    > >pattern of bidders, all same, bidding at the mid-level, whenever the
    > >action stalled).  I reported it to Ebay who claimed that nothing was
    > >wrong, but those bidders who had been involved in nearly every auction
    > >for months suddenly disappeared.  I guess Ebay didn't want to hurt one
    > >of their  top sellers.

    >
    > When buying a nice electronic piano not long ago, I noticed a pattern with
    > some sellers. Since I research things for a long time before deciding on a
    > purchase, this gave me several weeks of watching some items being sold on
    > ebay and how they were panning out. There's a large group of sellers who
    > are completely bogus. They just take the paypal payment and run. At first I
    > thought of reporting the simple pattern they use and how to spot them. But
    > then I noticed that all bidders would bid on their items, leaving the
    > genuine sellers alone. This allowed me to pay bottom dollar for a genuine
    > item while all others were being distracted by the theives. I decided it
    > was in my best interest to not convey how to easily spot the theives.


    Great for the buyer, not great for legit merchants. I'd have reported
    the scum.
    RichA, Jul 6, 2010
    #6
  7. RichA

    Russ D Guest

    On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 13:55:06 -0700 (PDT), RichA <>
    wrote:

    >On Jul 6, 4:25 pm, Russ D <> wrote:
    >> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:54:59 -0700 (PDT), Rich <> wrote:
    >> >On Jul 6, 9:20 am, krishnananda <>
    >> >wrote:
    >> >> In article
    >> >> <>,

    >>
    >> >> RichA <> wrote:
    >> >> > Paul Barrett, 39 and from County Durham, became the first person to be
    >> >> > convicted of shill bidding in April.

    >>
    >> >> *One* person convicted since eBay's founding in 1995? I would say the
    >> >> odds are with the shill bidders -- there shouldn't be another conviction
    >> >> until 2025!

    >>
    >> >I actuall caught one of the biggest camera sellers doing this (a
    >> >pattern of bidders, all same, bidding at the mid-level, whenever the
    >> >action stalled).  I reported it to Ebay who claimed that nothing was
    >> >wrong, but those bidders who had been involved in nearly every auction
    >> >for months suddenly disappeared.  I guess Ebay didn't want to hurt one
    >> >of their  top sellers.

    >>
    >> When buying a nice electronic piano not long ago, I noticed a pattern with
    >> some sellers. Since I research things for a long time before deciding on a
    >> purchase, this gave me several weeks of watching some items being sold on
    >> ebay and how they were panning out. There's a large group of sellers who
    >> are completely bogus. They just take the paypal payment and run. At first I
    >> thought of reporting the simple pattern they use and how to spot them. But
    >> then I noticed that all bidders would bid on their items, leaving the
    >> genuine sellers alone. This allowed me to pay bottom dollar for a genuine
    >> item while all others were being distracted by the theives. I decided it
    >> was in my best interest to not convey how to easily spot the theives.

    >
    >Great for the buyer, not great for legit merchants. I'd have reported
    >the scum.


    Not much different than figuring out how to beat the house at blackjack
    every time. Or the casino watching for those that learned how and then they
    ban them from their establishment because people smarter than they are are
    finally winning. Isn't this the whole point to free-trade, commerce, and
    capitalism? Whoever can screw-over the other guy the best, wins? Until I
    learn otherwise from a preponderance of examples in society I'll keep the
    thieves' secret safe with me. It may come in handy the next time I'm
    bidding on a really nice item.
    Russ D, Jul 6, 2010
    #7
  8. RichA

    Me Guest

    On 6/07/2010 11:08 p.m., RichA wrote:

    IMO better to not bother about legislation/rules and prosecution -
    especially when it's impossible to control. If they tighten up criteria
    for identifying shill bids, the shill bidders will just get smarter
    about how they do it.
    The final buy price is decided by the highest bidder - and nobody is
    holding a gun to their heads. If they get carried away by the process of
    competitive bidding, then surely that's their problem alone.
    Me, Jul 7, 2010
    #8
  9. RichA

    John Turco Guest

    Me wrote:
    >
    > On 6/07/2010 11:08 p.m., RichA wrote:
    >
    > IMO better to not bother about legislation/rules and prosecution -
    > especially when it's impossible to control. If they tighten up criteria
    > for identifying shill bids, the shill bidders will just get smarter
    > about how they do it.
    > The final buy price is decided by the highest bidder - and nobody is
    > holding a gun to their heads. If they get carried away by the process of
    > competitive bidding, then surely that's their problem alone.



    My concise eBay advice to others:

    Keep out of bidding wars, and concentrate on "Buy It Now" items. Set a
    budget, and stay within it.

    Works for me!

    --
    Cordially,
    John Turco <>

    Marie's Musings <http://fairiesandtails.blogspot.com>
    John Turco, Jul 20, 2010
    #9
  10. RichA

    jls Guest

    On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:09:59 -0500, Russ D <>
    wrote:

    >f Isn't this the whole point to free-trade, commerce, and
    >capitalism? Whoever can screw-over the other guy the best, wins? Until I
    >learn otherwise from a preponderance of examples in society I'll keep the
    >thieves' secret safe with me. It may come in handy the next time I'm
    >bidding on a really nice item.
    >
    >


    To your initial question, the answer is an unequivocal NO. That is
    not "the whole point" of "free-trade, commerce, and capitalism".

    The fact that people exist who are willing to exploit weaknesses in a
    system doesn't not mean that the system was designed with this in
    mind.

    You're merely exploiting the exploiters, which doesn't make you any
    better than they are. Imho, a better solution is to identify all
    exploiters and take action - this effectively fixes the weaknesses. It
    doesn't have to be perfect, but if it significantly reduces the
    success rate (i.e., the profitability) for the fraudsters, then it
    will become less of an incentive for them.
    jls, Jul 22, 2010
    #10
  11. RichA

    Russ D Guest

    On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:52:29 -0400, jls <> wrote:

    >On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:09:59 -0500, Russ D <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>f Isn't this the whole point to free-trade, commerce, and
    >>capitalism? Whoever can screw-over the other guy the best, wins? Until I
    >>learn otherwise from a preponderance of examples in society I'll keep the
    >>thieves' secret safe with me. It may come in handy the next time I'm
    >>bidding on a really nice item.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >To your initial question, the answer is an unequivocal NO. That is
    >not "the whole point" of "free-trade, commerce, and capitalism".
    >
    >The fact that people exist who are willing to exploit weaknesses in a
    >system doesn't not mean that the system was designed with this in
    >mind.
    >
    >You're merely exploiting the exploiters, which doesn't make you any
    >better than they are. Imho, a better solution is to identify all
    >exploiters and take action - this effectively fixes the weaknesses. It
    >doesn't have to be perfect, but if it significantly reduces the
    >success rate (i.e., the profitability) for the fraudsters, then it
    >will become less of an incentive for them.


    Pay me $7,000,000 to give you their secret. Then the weaknesses in the
    system will be restored.

    That's capitalism. I have something you want. Pay me for it at the price
    that I determine is fair. $7 million is a small drop in the bucket compared
    to how many millions that ebay, paypal, buyers, and reputable sellers are
    losing to these scammers. I'd say that $7 million is an excellent bargain
    price. Especially for something that will benefit all for many many years
    to come.

    Cough it up!

    While I wait for you to pay that, I'll keep winning the best deals on ebay
    while all others get scammed. Your choice.

    While typing this I noticed that the price jumped from $1 million to $4
    million, and in final editing it went to $7 million. It doesn't appear that
    the price is dropping any time soon. You might want to get in on this deal
    before the price jumps up even higher.
    Russ D, Jul 22, 2010
    #11
  12. RichA

    Russ D Guest

    On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:04:14 +0100, bugbear
    <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:

    >Russ D wrote:
    >>
    >> When buying a nice electronic piano not long ago, I noticed a pattern with
    >> some sellers. Since I research things for a long time before deciding on a
    >> purchase, this gave me several weeks of watching some items being sold on
    >> ebay and how they were panning out. There's a large group of sellers who
    >> are completely bogus. They just take the paypal payment and run. At first I
    >> thought of reporting the simple pattern they use and how to spot them. But
    >> then I noticed that all bidders would bid on their items, leaving the
    >> genuine sellers alone.

    >
    >Really? This means all the others bidders could tell the difference
    >too. And were deliberately bidding with the crooks.
    >
    >That sounds ... unlikely.


    Yes, very unlikely, because your thinking is fucked-up. They *could* tell
    the difference between reputable sellers and the con-artists, but ONLY if
    they knew what I figured out. Apparently they haven't figured that out or
    it wouldn't be working in my favor.

    Get it?

    No, you don't get it. Because you can't even figure out this much yet.

    You'd most certainly be one of those who were busily bidding on a scam item
    while I was off on the side being the lone bidder on a valid item. That
    much is clear.
    Russ D, Jul 22, 2010
    #12
  13. RichA

    Twibil Guest

    On Jul 22, 3:17 pm, Russ D <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > You'd most certainly be one of those who were busily bidding on a scam item
    > while I was off on the side being the lone bidder on a valid item. That
    > much is clear.


    Say hello to Nurse Ratched for us, hum?
    Twibil, Jul 22, 2010
    #13
  14. RichA

    jls Guest

    On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:10:27 -0500, Russ D <>
    wrote:

    >On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:52:29 -0400, jls <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>You're merely exploiting the exploiters, which doesn't make you any
    >>better than they are. Imho, a better solution is to identify all
    >>exploiters and take action - this effectively fixes the weaknesses. It
    >>doesn't have to be perfect, but if it significantly reduces the
    >>success rate (i.e., the profitability) for the fraudsters, then it
    >>will become less of an incentive for them.

    >
    >Pay me $7,000,000 to give you their secret. Then the weaknesses in the
    >system will be restored.
    >
    >That's capitalism. I have something you want. Pay me for it at the price
    >that I determine is fair. $7 million is a small drop in the bucket compared
    >to how many millions that ebay, paypal, buyers, and reputable sellers are
    >losing to these scammers. I'd say that $7 million is an excellent bargain
    >price. Especially for something that will benefit all for many many years
    >to come.
    >


    That's capitalism in the same sense that you want me to pay for that
    stolen DVD player you're selling me out of the trunk of your car, I
    suppose.

    Theft may exist, but that doesn't mean that theft defines what
    capitalism is.
    jls, Jul 26, 2010
    #14
  15. RichA

    Russ D Guest

    On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:53:06 -0400, jls <> wrote:

    >On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:10:27 -0500, Russ D <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:52:29 -0400, jls <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>You're merely exploiting the exploiters, which doesn't make you any
    >>>better than they are. Imho, a better solution is to identify all
    >>>exploiters and take action - this effectively fixes the weaknesses. It
    >>>doesn't have to be perfect, but if it significantly reduces the
    >>>success rate (i.e., the profitability) for the fraudsters, then it
    >>>will become less of an incentive for them.

    >>
    >>Pay me $7,000,000 to give you their secret. Then the weaknesses in the
    >>system will be restored.
    >>
    >>That's capitalism. I have something you want. Pay me for it at the price
    >>that I determine is fair. $7 million is a small drop in the bucket compared
    >>to how many millions that ebay, paypal, buyers, and reputable sellers are
    >>losing to these scammers. I'd say that $7 million is an excellent bargain
    >>price. Especially for something that will benefit all for many many years
    >>to come.
    >>

    >
    >That's capitalism in the same sense that you want me to pay for that
    >stolen DVD player you're selling me out of the trunk of your car, I
    >suppose.
    >


    Not at all, because I didn't steal anything. Try using a better analogy,
    like:

    I found some gold. Do you want to buy it?

    Or how about:

    Buy this insurance so you feel safer in life. If not, you risk losing
    everything.

    Or maybe:

    I know which stocks are going to be profitable for you because I found a
    better way to analyze the market. Pay me if you want me to tell you.


    Don't try calling me a thief just because you haven't found out how to
    protect your own self from thieves. That's precisely what you are trying to
    do, to manipulate me into feeling sorry for your stupid **** of a self so
    that I'll give you something very valuable for free. Ain't going to work,
    you sorry dumbshit.

    Now that's capitalism.
    Russ D, Jul 27, 2010
    #15
  16. RichA

    jls Guest

    On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:01:21 -0500, Russ D <>
    wrote:

    >On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:53:06 -0400, jls <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:10:27 -0500, Russ D <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:52:29 -0400, jls <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>>You're merely exploiting the exploiters, which doesn't make you any
    >>>>better than they are. Imho, a better solution is to identify all
    >>>>exploiters and take action - this effectively fixes the weaknesses. It
    >>>>doesn't have to be perfect, but if it significantly reduces the
    >>>>success rate (i.e., the profitability) for the fraudsters, then it
    >>>>will become less of an incentive for them.
    >>>
    >>>Pay me $7,000,000 to give you their secret. Then the weaknesses in the
    >>>system will be restored.
    >>>
    >>>That's capitalism. I have something you want. Pay me for it at the price
    >>>that I determine is fair. $7 million is a small drop in the bucket compared
    >>>to how many millions that ebay, paypal, buyers, and reputable sellers are
    >>>losing to these scammers. I'd say that $7 million is an excellent bargain
    >>>price. Especially for something that will benefit all for many many years
    >>>to come.
    >>>

    >>
    >>That's capitalism in the same sense that you want me to pay for that
    >>stolen DVD player you're selling me out of the trunk of your car, I
    >>suppose.
    >>

    >
    >Not at all, because I didn't steal anything. Try using a better analogy,
    >like:


    Yes, exactly. In my example I didn't steal anything either, but chose
    to "capitalize" on someone else's illegal behavior.

    Exactly like your behavior here.

    >
    >Don't try calling me a thief just because you haven't found out how to
    >protect your own self from thieves.


    I didn't call you a thief, so you're barking up the wrong tree there
    bucko. The use of "you're selling" was meant in a more universal
    sense.

    Okay, how about putting it this way: You're buying something stolen
    from the back of someone's car. Does that make you feel better?
    You're still exploiting the illegal behavior of someone, just as you
    are on ebay.

    >That's precisely what you are trying to
    >do, to manipulate me into feeling sorry for your stupid **** of a self so
    >that I'll give you something very valuable for free. Ain't going to work,
    >you sorry dumbshit.


    Haha, oh wow. That hurts.


    >
    >Now that's capitalism.


    It may be "capitalising" on someone else's illegal behavior, but it is
    not the right way to pursue true "capitalism".
    jls, Jul 27, 2010
    #16
  17. RichA

    Twibil Guest

    On Jul 27, 10:52 am, Russ D <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > The WHOLE paradigm of "capitalism" is to personally benefit off of the
    > misfortunes of others.


    Well, no, that's not the case.

    > There is NO OTHER DEFINITION.


    Of course there is: the real one.

    You seem to be suffering from a full-blown psychosis wherein you have
    (A) deluded yourself into thinking that you actually understand socio-
    economic systems, and (B) have really-and-truly come to believe that
    whatever you say will become true if only you repeat it enough times.

    Alas for you, actual Capitalism is based on the concept of mutual
    gain: I.E. a good deal for both buyer *and* seller. That individuals
    will frequently twist this concept to their own gain -usually to the
    detriment of others- should come as no surprise to you, seeing as how
    every single *other* socio-economic system mankind has so far invented
    has been subject to exactly the same problem.

    Say hello to Nurse Ratched for us, okay?
    Twibil, Jul 27, 2010
    #17
  18. RichA

    jls Guest

    On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:52:01 -0500, Russ D <>
    wrote:

    >On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:21:30 -0400, jls <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:01:21 -0500, Russ D <>
    >>>
    >>>Now that's capitalism.

    >>
    >>It may be "capitalising" on someone else's illegal behavior, but it is
    >>not the right way to pursue true "capitalism".

    >
    >The WHOLE paradigm of "capitalism" is to personally benefit off of the
    >misfortunes of others. There is NO OTHER DEFINITION.


    Utter bullshit. I suggest you actually read something.

    >Ask Oprah. Her whole
    >empire is founded on exploiting the misfortunes of others. As are the
    >incomes of EVERY LAST CEO ON THE PLANET.


    Ah, okay, now I know you're just pulling my chain.
    jls, Jul 29, 2010
    #18
  19. RichA

    Russ D Guest

    On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:37:53 -0400, jls <> wrote:

    >On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:52:01 -0500, Russ D <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:21:30 -0400, jls <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:01:21 -0500, Russ D <>
    >>>>
    >>>>Now that's capitalism.
    >>>
    >>>It may be "capitalising" on someone else's illegal behavior, but it is
    >>>not the right way to pursue true "capitalism".

    >>
    >>The WHOLE paradigm of "capitalism" is to personally benefit off of the
    >>misfortunes of others. There is NO OTHER DEFINITION.

    >
    >Utter bullshit. I suggest you actually read something.
    >


    The definitions in your books doesn't match the definition as it exists in
    practice in the real world.

    I suggest you actually experience real life and take those book-learned-
    induced-ignorance blinders off.

    "If I had read as many books as other men, I should have been as ignorant
    as they are." - Thomas Hobbes
    Russ D, Jul 29, 2010
    #19
  20. RichA

    tony cooper Guest

    On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:37:53 -0400, jls <> wrote:

    >On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:52:01 -0500, Russ D <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:21:30 -0400, jls <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:01:21 -0500, Russ D <>
    >>>>
    >>>>Now that's capitalism.
    >>>
    >>>It may be "capitalising" on someone else's illegal behavior, but it is
    >>>not the right way to pursue true "capitalism".

    >>
    >>The WHOLE paradigm of "capitalism" is to personally benefit off of the
    >>misfortunes of others. There is NO OTHER DEFINITION.

    >
    >Utter bullshit. I suggest you actually read something.
    >
    >>Ask Oprah. Her whole
    >>empire is founded on exploiting the misfortunes of others. As are the
    >>incomes of EVERY LAST CEO ON THE PLANET.

    >
    >Ah, okay, now I know you're just pulling my chain.


    People who have the attitude Russ D shows are almost always people who
    have had no success of their own and resent the success of others. By
    portraying successful people as evil, they attempt to justify their
    own failures as a mark of goodness.



    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Jul 29, 2010
    #20
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