Earlier versions of browsers

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by richard, Jan 6, 2010.

  1. richard

    richard Guest

    With the wide variety of browsers out there how is a web developer to know
    for a fact that his site he developed will work as desired on those
    browsers?

    With each new version of browser, the programmers have made it so that an
    earlier version is wiped clean.

    So the web developer has the latest version of windows vista with all the
    bells and whistles. All of his developing tools are geared for vista and
    thusly, IE 7. Yet, the internet is still scoured by users of ME, 98SE and
    even, yes, even windows 95.

    As each new version of IE comes out, every year it seems now, the older
    version of IE is no longer available. You can't even install it as a stand
    alone program. As MS claims IE is an integral part of the OS.

    So then just how is one to know how his website will look on older
    browsers? Buy a machine and install a different set of browsers designed
    for that OS?

    While IE is now a halfway decent web browser, it still refuses to accept a
    lot of perfectly good and legitimate CSS. While implementing their own
    version of CSS.

    I have read some sites that discuss installing IE6 on vista. It ain't easy
    and MS has made it so that you have to do it every so often.

    Have any of you who develop websites successfully installed earlier IE
    versions on vista and got it to work? Not to mention earlier versions of FF
    and opera. If so, how did you do it?
    richard, Jan 6, 2010
    #1
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  2. richard

    richard Guest

    On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 21:43:36 -0800, Evan Platt wrote:

    > On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 22:20:36 -0700, richard <> wrote:
    >
    >>With the wide variety of browsers out there how is a web developer to know
    >>for a fact that his site he developed will work as desired on those
    >>browsers?
    >>
    >>With each new version of browser, the programmers have made it so that an
    >>earlier version is wiped clean.

    >
    > <SNIP>
    >
    > First google hit for download and run ie5 takes me to
    > Multiple IE Installer.
    > http://tredosoft.com/files/multi-ie/multiple-ie-setup.exe


    The only version that worked in vista was 3.0.
    No wonder, considering they stopped working with it in 2007.
    And it was designed to work with XP.


    >
    > Or
    > http://browsershots.org/


    Backlogged for months. Here you do not get to see your designed page live
    as you should.
    richard, Jan 6, 2010
    #2
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  3. richard

    richard Guest

    On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 01:22:16 -0500, Gil J wrote:

    > "Evan Platt" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 22:20:36 -0700, richard <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>With the wide variety of browsers out there how is a web developer to know
    >>>for a fact that his site he developed will work as desired on those
    >>>browsers?
    >>>
    >>>With each new version of browser, the programmers have made it so that an
    >>>earlier version is wiped clean.

    >>
    >> <SNIP>
    >>
    >> First google hit for download and run ie5 takes me to
    >> Multiple IE Installer.
    >> http://tredosoft.com/files/multi-ie/multiple-ie-setup.exe
    >>
    >> Or
    >> http://browsershots.org/

    >
    > These work in some cases but i have an old win 98se machine that wont
    > install
    > a lot of programs anymore.
    >
    > Gil
    >
    > http://www.oldversion.com/Internet-Explorer.html
    >
    > http://www.oldversion.com/


    Thanks.
    I wasted my time for nothing. Downloaded the IE6 version and went to run
    setup. No can do. Won't install over a newer version.
    richard, Jan 6, 2010
    #3
  4. richard

    Desk Rabbit Guest

    On 06/01/2010 05:20, richard wrote:
    > With the wide variety of browsers out there how is a web developer to know
    > for a fact that his site he developed will work as desired on those
    > browsers?


    By adhering to standards and writing good code.


    > With each new version of browser, the programmers have made it so that an
    > earlier version is wiped clean.

    Sensible otherwise people would be griping about old versions being left
    behind and eating up space.

    > So the web developer has the latest version of windows vista with all the
    > bells and whistles. All of his developing tools are geared for vista and
    > thusly, IE 7. Yet, the internet is still scoured by users of ME, 98SE and
    > even, yes, even windows 95.


    Don't forget folks with Linux and Macs plus all the mobile devices.


    > As each new version of IE comes out, every year it seems now, the older
    > version of IE is no longer available. You can't even install it as a stand
    > alone program. As MS claims IE is an integral part of the OS.
    >
    > So then just how is one to know how his website will look on older
    > browsers? Buy a machine and install a different set of browsers designed
    > for that OS?


    Google virtual machine or vmware or virtual box.


    > While IE is now a halfway decent web browser, it still refuses to accept a
    > lot of perfectly good and legitimate CSS. While implementing their own
    > version of CSS.


    Uh huh.


    > I have read some sites that discuss installing IE6 on vista. It ain't easy
    > and MS has made it so that you have to do it every so often.


    Virtual machines are the answer.

    > Have any of you who develop websites successfully installed earlier IE
    > versions on vista and got it to work? Not to mention earlier versions of FF
    > and opera. If so, how did you do it?


    With a virtual machines. You can even run a windows mobile phone as a
    virtual machine if you are clever enough and know what you are doing ;-)
    Desk Rabbit, Jan 6, 2010
    #4
  5. richard wrote:

    > With the wide variety of browsers out there how is a web developer to
    > know for a fact that his site he developed will work as desired on
    > those browsers?


    You've been told many times that writing valid code will afford the most
    cross-browser compatibility. In short:

    Use HTML 4.01 Strict
    Visit http://validator.w3.org/
    Visit http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

    --
    -bts
    -One day it will all sink in .. or not
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Jan 6, 2010
    #5
  6. richard

    why? Guest

    X-No-Archive: Yes
    On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 22:20:36 -0700, richard wrote:

    >With the wide variety of browsers out there how is a web developer to know


    Cater for the few most popular the best you can.

    >for a fact that his site he developed will work as desired on those
    >browsers?


    Follow w3 recommendiations for writing valid HTML. Learn how to seperate
    content from presentation.

    <snip>

    >So then just how is one to know how his website will look on older
    >browsers? Buy a machine and install a different set of browsers designed
    >for that OS?
    >


    As if it's not been mentioned many times in 24HSHD and alt.html

    Install multiple browsers on your PC, use VMWare / Virtual PC to run
    others. Use the online tools

    Using a WAG www.google.com and
    Results 1 - 10 of about 49,700,000 for web browser page tester. (0.23
    seconds)

    http://browsershots.org/
    submit a URL to be tested against dozens of browsers on multiple
    platforms.

    http://www.thesitewizard.com/webdesign/multiplebrowsers.shtml
    How to Check Your Website with Multiple Browsers on a Single Machine
    (Cross-Browser Compatibility Checking)

    http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid2/

    http://ipinfo.info/netrenderer/

    https://browserlab.adobe.com/index.html

    Used to use this when I supported sites at work
    http://www.cyscape.com/showbrow.aspx?bhjs=0


    Try www.google.com theere are others.

    Me
    why?, Jan 6, 2010
    #6
  7. richard

    why? Guest

    On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 10:26:11 +0000, Desk Rabbit wrote:

    >On 06/01/2010 05:20, richard wrote:
    >> With the wide variety of browsers out there how is a web developer to know
    >> for a fact that his site he developed will work as desired on those
    >> browsers?

    >
    >By adhering to standards and writing good code.


    Mentioned that as well, but it's richard.

    As if it's impossible to search 24HSHD, alt.html and
    comp.infosystems.www.authoring.tools or .www.browsers

    <snip>

    Me
    why?, Jan 6, 2010
    #7
  8. richard

    Jordon Guest

    richard wrote:
    > With the wide variety of browsers out there how is a web developer to know
    > for a fact that his site he developed will work as desired on those
    > browsers?


    http://www.w3.org/standards/
    Jordon, Jan 6, 2010
    #8
  9. richard

    why? Guest

    Reposted having removed No-Archive flag.

    On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 22:20:36 -0700, richard wrote:

    >With the wide variety of browsers out there how is a web developer to know


    Cater for the few most popular the best you can.

    >for a fact that his site he developed will work as desired on those
    >browsers?


    Follow w3 recommendiations for writing valid HTML. Learn how to seperate
    content from presentation.

    <snip>

    >So then just how is one to know how his website will look on older
    >browsers? Buy a machine and install a different set of browsers designed
    >for that OS?
    >


    As if it's not been mentioned many times in 24HSHD and alt.html

    Install multiple browsers on your PC, use VMWare / Virtual PC to run
    others. Use the online tools

    Using a WAG www.google.com and
    Results 1 - 10 of about 49,700,000 for web browser page tester. (0.23
    seconds)

    http://browsershots.org/
    submit a URL to be tested against dozens of browsers on multiple
    platforms.

    http://www.thesitewizard.com/webdesign/multiplebrowsers.shtml
    How to Check Your Website with Multiple Browsers on a Single Machine
    (Cross-Browser Compatibility Checking)

    http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid2/

    http://ipinfo.info/netrenderer/

    https://browserlab.adobe.com/index.html

    Used to use this when I supported sites at work
    http://www.cyscape.com/showbrow.aspx?bhjs=0


    Try www.google.com theere are others.

    Me
    why?, Jan 6, 2010
    #9
  10. richard

    richard Guest

    On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 22:20:36 -0700, richard wrote:

    > With the wide variety of browsers out there how is a web developer to know
    > for a fact that his site he developed will work as desired on those
    > browsers?
    >
    > With each new version of browser, the programmers have made it so that an
    > earlier version is wiped clean.
    >
    > So the web developer has the latest version of windows vista with all the
    > bells and whistles. All of his developing tools are geared for vista and
    > thusly, IE 7. Yet, the internet is still scoured by users of ME, 98SE and
    > even, yes, even windows 95.
    >
    > As each new version of IE comes out, every year it seems now, the older
    > version of IE is no longer available. You can't even install it as a stand
    > alone program. As MS claims IE is an integral part of the OS.
    >
    > So then just how is one to know how his website will look on older
    > browsers? Buy a machine and install a different set of browsers designed
    > for that OS?
    >
    > While IE is now a halfway decent web browser, it still refuses to accept a
    > lot of perfectly good and legitimate CSS. While implementing their own
    > version of CSS.
    >
    > I have read some sites that discuss installing IE6 on vista. It ain't easy
    > and MS has made it so that you have to do it every so often.
    >
    > Have any of you who develop websites successfully installed earlier IE
    > versions on vista and got it to work? Not to mention earlier versions of FF
    > and opera. If so, how did you do it?




    Thanks for the answers.
    Several keep pointing out that the key is writing proper code.
    Unlike a lot of high scale, big premier sites, I validate my code.
    If the validator says my code is kosher, it ain't my fault your browser
    doesn't know what to do with it.

    The big problem is, IE6 was/is full of bugs.
    IE7 refuses to accept some perfectly valid CSS.
    Such as any of the "table-" attributes.

    When ever MS released a new OS, it also released a new version of IE, which
    gives you no choice but to accept it.

    I did install one package that had all of the versions of IE up to 6.
    The only version that worked on vista was IE 3.0.
    A stand alone version of IE6 failed to install.

    Most sites I visited suggested installing virtual machines or virtual hard
    drives.
    Ok so that means I'd have to have a VM/VHD for each and every operating
    system just to get that version of IE. No I'm not gonna waste the time and
    space just for that bullshit.

    It's not my problem to write code for one browser that can't get the coding
    right to begin with.
    As long as my code validates, I don't give a damn if you can't see it
    right.
    richard, Jan 6, 2010
    #10
  11. richard wrote:

    > Unlike a lot of high scale, big premier sites, I validate my code.


    <boggle!>

    --
    -bts
    -Four wheels carry the body; two wheels move the soul
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Jan 6, 2010
    #11
  12. richard

    why? Guest

    On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 07:31:55 -0800, Jordon wrote:

    >richard wrote:
    >> With the wide variety of browsers out there how is a web developer to know
    >> for a fact that his site he developed will work as desired on those
    >> browsers?

    >
    >http://www.w3.org/standards/


    That's one of the things richard doesn't understand. Going by the
    wording of the post, how many HTML threads he has started, contributed
    to he still doesn't get it :)

    Me
    why?, Jan 6, 2010
    #12
  13. richard

    why? Guest

    On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 09:37:06 -0700, richard wrote:

    >On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 22:20:36 -0700, richard wrote:
    >
    >> With the wide variety of browsers out there how is a web developer to know
    >> for a fact that his site he developed will work as desired on those
    >> browsers?
    >>
    >> With each new version of browser, the programmers have made it so that an
    >> earlier version is wiped clean.


    That would be MS and IE then, I had at one point an early SeaMonkay and
    latest version installed at the same time as well as 2 version of NS and
    Opera. Still have 2 Opera's just now.

    >>
    >> So the web developer has the latest version of windows vista with all the
    >> bells and whistles. All of his developing tools are geared for vista and
    >> thusly, IE 7. Yet, the internet is still scoured by users of ME, 98SE and
    >> even, yes, even windows 95.


    Well there is not a lot you can practically do with IE6 and below now.
    It's a try not to break the view, but don't waste the time on it.

    >>
    >> As each new version of IE comes out, every year it seems now, the older
    >> version of IE is no longer available. You can't even install it as a stand


    Except at perhaps, the MS network admin full installers or the browser
    archive at evolt.

    >> alone program. As MS claims IE is an integral part of the OS.


    Of course it is, what when IE or MS Explorer crashes and takes the other
    out as well.

    >> So then just how is one to know how his website will look on older
    >> browsers? Buy a machine and install a different set of browsers designed
    >> for that OS?
    >>
    >> While IE is now a halfway decent web browser, it still refuses to accept a
    >> lot of perfectly good and legitimate CSS. While implementing their own


    Consider how often it's updated compared to other browsers.

    >> version of CSS.


    That's why you have to be an informed developer and know why / how it's
    broken.

    >> I have read some sites that discuss installing IE6 on vista. It ain't easy
    >> and MS has made it so that you have to do it every so often.
    >>
    >> Have any of you who develop websites successfully installed earlier IE
    >> versions on vista and got it to work? Not to mention earlier versions of FF


    No wouldn't try, use VMs and when they are out the MS preview VMs they
    had for the new OS/browser versions for developers.

    >> and opera. If so, how did you do it?


    Haven't tried multiple FF yet, don't think there are issues.

    >Thanks for the answers.
    >Several keep pointing out that the key is writing proper code.
    >Unlike a lot of high scale, big premier sites, I validate my code.
    >If the validator says my code is kosher, it ain't my fault your browser
    >doesn't know what to do with it.


    Valid code only makes it valid code to a set of recommendations, how
    it's intrepreted by the browser (implemented by the browser developer is
    another issues all together), validation at least makes it less likely
    to be a problem structurally and avoid the incompentance of many WYSIWYG
    editors and missing / out of sequence elements.

    <snip>

    Me
    why?, Jan 6, 2010
    #13
  14. richard

    Jordon Guest

    why? wrote:
    >
    > On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 07:31:55 -0800, Jordon wrote:
    >
    >> richard wrote:
    >>> With the wide variety of browsers out there how is a web developer to know
    >>> for a fact that his site he developed will work as desired on those
    >>> browsers?

    >>
    >> http://www.w3.org/standards/

    >
    > That's one of the things richard doesn't understand. Going by the
    > wording of the post, how many HTML threads he has started, contributed
    > to he still doesn't get it :)


    Why worry about different browsers? If you just
    write your code according to standards and it works
    in a standards compliant browser why go to the extra
    work of testing it in ancient versions of Internet
    Explorer? But it is kind of amusing thinking about
    someone using IE version 4, stumbling across Richards
    site and having a problem with it. It's even more
    amusing thinking about Richard being concerned with
    it.

    Not that I've got room to talk. Mine was created in
    FrontPage. But I don't give a shit.

    --
    Jordon
    Jordon, Jan 6, 2010
    #14
  15. richard

    richard Guest

    On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 10:03:51 -0800, Evan Platt wrote:

    > On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 09:37:06 -0700, richard <> wrote:
    >
    >>Thanks for the answers.
    >>Several keep pointing out that the key is writing proper code.

    >
    > Correct.
    >
    >>Unlike a lot of high scale, big premier sites, I validate my code.

    >
    > <COUGH COUGH>
    >
    > Bullshit.
    >
    > I'd be willing to bet you haven't "written" a line of code.
    >
    > As a matter of fact...
    >
    > http://1littleworld.net/ :
    >
    > <meta name="generator" content="AceHTML Freeware">
    >
    > http://www.blog.1littleworld.net/
    >
    > No meta generator name there, bud I'd bet AceHTML too.
    >
    > http://gallery.1littleworld.com/main.php
    >
    > Well, one look there and it should be obvious you didn't write that.
    >
    > So your blog should be simple enough. I mean, it's a frame with text.
    > Really? If you can't make that even compatible with a text based
    > browser, you have issues.
    >
    > And have you looked through your logs? What percentage of people who
    > visit your site have say Windows 98?
    >
    > Of course you do realize this is easy enough to fake? Heck, I could
    > make my browser show as Internet Explorer 12.3, Windows 2020.
    >
    >>If the validator says my code is kosher, it ain't my fault your browser
    >>doesn't know what to do with it.

    >
    > http://www.blog.1littleworld.net/ is.
    >
    > http://1littleworld.net/ isn't.


    1 fucking error due to no "alt" with the image I didn't even bother to link
    to.

    >
    > http://gallery.1littleworld.com/main.php isn't.


    2 fucking errors. That page is a script which I did not write.


    >
    > Hell, my site isn't 100% either.


    YOU do not validate, period.
    richard, Jan 6, 2010
    #15
  16. richard

    richard Guest

    On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 12:10:32 -0800, Jordon wrote:

    > why? wrote:
    >>
    >> On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 07:31:55 -0800, Jordon wrote:
    >>
    >>> richard wrote:
    >>>> With the wide variety of browsers out there how is a web developer to know
    >>>> for a fact that his site he developed will work as desired on those
    >>>> browsers?
    >>>
    >>> http://www.w3.org/standards/

    >>
    >> That's one of the things richard doesn't understand. Going by the
    >> wording of the post, how many HTML threads he has started, contributed
    >> to he still doesn't get it :)

    >
    > Why worry about different browsers? If you just
    > write your code according to standards and it works
    > in a standards compliant browser why go to the extra
    > work of testing it in ancient versions of Internet
    > Explorer? But it is kind of amusing thinking about
    > someone using IE version 4, stumbling across Richards
    > site and having a problem with it. It's even more
    > amusing thinking about Richard being concerned with
    > it.
    >
    > Not that I've got room to talk. Mine was created in
    > FrontPage. But I don't give a shit.


    FP? Sheesh man that sucks. I quit using it because it spit out crappy code.
    I was using acehtml free but now I'm using rapid php 2010. Mainly for the
    fact it is one of few php editors with a built in server.
    richard, Jan 7, 2010
    #16
  17. richard

    rf Guest

    "richard" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 12:10:32 -0800, Jordon wrote:


    >> Not that I've got room to talk. Mine was created in
    >> FrontPage. But I don't give a shit.

    >
    > FP? Sheesh man that sucks. I quit using it because it spit out crappy
    > code.


    What? You mean code even more crappy than yours? Can't be.
    rf, Jan 7, 2010
    #17
  18. richard

    Jordon Guest

    richard wrote:
    > Jordon wrote:


    >> Not that I've got room to talk. Mine was created in
    >> FrontPage. But I don't give a shit.


    > FP? Sheesh man that sucks. I quit using it because it spit out crappy code.
    > I was using acehtml free but now I'm using rapid php 2010. Mainly for the
    > fact it is one of few php editors with a built in server.


    It's not like anyone is beating down the doors to
    get to my site, so like I said, I really don't give
    a shit. There's nothing there except a for sale
    sign and my phone number.

    --
    Jordon
    Jordon, Jan 7, 2010
    #18
  19. richard wrote:

    > but now I'm using rapid php 2010.


    So how's that going then?

    --
    -bts
    -<del>FrontPage</del><del>RunBasic</del><del>AceHTML</del>
    -a new day, a new program, same old shite
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Jan 7, 2010
    #19
  20. Evan Platt wrote:

    > "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote:
    >> richard wrote:
    >>> but now I'm using rapid php 2010.

    >>
    >> So how's that going then?

    >
    > Haven't you looked at his blog?
    >
    > <pours bleach in eyes>


    I used tabasco sauce. It cooled them down. :)

    --
    -bts
    -too bad RapidPHP 2010 doesn't come with *artistic* tools
    -cyan, chartreuse, gray, and purple .. that's the ticket!
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Jan 7, 2010
    #20
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