e-Mail Problems Questions ?

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Robert11, Mar 9, 2006.

  1. Robert11

    Robert11 Guest

    Hi,

    Live outside of Boston, and have Verizon DSL for primary e-mail, and also a
    Yahoo e-mail account

    This applies to both of them.

    a. Occasionally, not very often, but it does happen, e-mails just don't
    seem to get delivered.
    It shows that they did get delivered, but they don't. I can verify the
    problem, sometimes,
    with test e-mails back to myself that don't make it. no error smg's; they
    just don't make it.

    b. Also, sometimes I get an error msg that they could not deliver an e-mail
    as the address
    is invalid, but if I try a few hours later with the exact same address, it
    does go thru.

    Is this fairly typical ?

    Any comments particularly regarding (b) which really interests me a lot as
    to what might be happening ?

    Any thoughts on ?

    Thanks,
    Bob
    Robert11, Mar 9, 2006
    #1
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  2. Robert11

    Mike Easter Guest

    Robert11 wrote:

    > a. Occasionally, not very often, but it does happen, e-mails just
    > don't seem to get delivered.


    A term I use for that is 'dropped on the floor'.

    A message which is dropped on the floor disappears. It does not
    generate a 'belated' so-called bounce from the recipient server, which
    is caused by a server accepting a mail for delivery and then failing to
    place it in the recipient's mailbox -- but then 'turning around' and
    emailing a newmail to the sending From about the delivery status
    failure. And it does not generate a proper or real so-called 'hard'
    bounce from the sending server which has failed to transact for some
    reason with a receiving server -- in that case your own server would
    provide you with the delivery status failure.

    > It shows that they did get delivered, but they don't.


    That statement is ambiguous and meaningless in the 'did get delivered'
    portion in context with 'It shows'. You didn't say what showed what,
    and there is nothing that showed that the email did get delivered in
    your description. Perhaps you mean that the item appeared in the Sent
    mail folder, which is /not/ evidence that something got delivered.
    There are strategies for showing something got delivered one place but
    not another, but you/we haven't begun to discuss that yet.

    > I can verify
    > the problem, sometimes,
    > with test e-mails back to myself that don't make it. no error smg's;
    > they just don't make it.


    I understand that concept.

    > b. Also, sometimes I get an error msg that they could not deliver an
    > e-mail as the address
    > is invalid, but if I try a few hours later with the exact same
    > address, it does go thru.


    I am not crystal clear on that example.

    > Is this fairly typical ?


    No.

    > Any comments particularly regarding (b) which really interests me a
    > lot as to what might be happening ?


    Some causes for mail to be dropped on the floor going backwards from
    recipient mailbox to sending server.

    The recipient is actually receiving the mail, but it is going into some
    kind of 'block sender' disappearing act caused by the recipient being
    configured wrongly with a spam filter or other message rule created by
    accident. Many people use 'block sender' when they receive a spam. If
    they received a spam with your address in the From, which is common and
    possible and normal with spam, then all future mails from you would
    disappear caused by their mailuser agent disappearing them. That is one
    of many reasons that people shouldn't use block sender on spam, to say
    nothing of the fact that it is ineffective.

    The recipient's mail provider's server is dropping the mail on the
    floor. That is a common problem today. The provider is implementing
    some stupid spam or viral filter which deletes mail automatically which
    the recipient doesn't know about -- or the recipient has failed to
    understand how their provider allows for such filters to be configured,
    if it is optional. My provider gives me optional configuration to see
    any spam or virus mails which it has deemed positive, but most people do
    not configure to examine their spam and virus labeled mail.

    Some mail server between your server and your recipient's mailbox is
    dropping the mail on the floor for some unknown reason that is difficult
    to diagnose or discuss unless you give us more information on specifics
    than you have. Whenever a *real* and existing problem needs to be
    discussed, it is never an advantage to convert a real problem into a
    hypothetical or imaginary problem by trying to describe it in vague,
    general, and non-specific terms. Real problems described in real terms
    naming real domainnames works much better. The problem with email
    addresses is that in a public forum people want to keep things generic.
    So, the discussion remains generic, when a better discussion would be a
    specific discussion.

    Something went wrong with your mail provider's outbound mailservice and
    your provider's server or webmail or whatever system failed to provide
    you with adequate failure information. An example of that would be
    gmail's server failing to forward but also failing to provide any kind
    of useful information about the nature of the forwarding failure.


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Mar 9, 2006
    #2
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