DVD Wars: Not Over Yet

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Super Mario, Sep 18, 2007.

  1. Super Mario

    Super Mario Guest

    "Paramount's move to release discs only in the HD-DVD format deals a
    blow to Sony's Blu-ray camp and makes the bigger battle too close to
    call..."

    Business Week article: http://301url.com/cah
     
    Super Mario, Sep 18, 2007
    #1
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  2. Super Mario

    Jonah Falcon Guest

    Hey, Blig Jr, do you post at the Nsider forums?

    Oh, wait - you CAN'T. They shut them down! Not "casual" enough.

    LMAO
     
    Jonah Falcon, Sep 18, 2007
    #2
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  3. Super Mario

    Guest

    On Sep 18, 2:02 pm, (Super Mario) wrote:
    > "Paramount's move to release discs only in the HD-DVD format deals a
    > blow to Sony's Blu-ray camp and makes the bigger battle too close to
    > call..."
    >
    > Business Week article:http://301url.com/cah



    News Analysis August 20, 2007, 10:54PM EST

    Where have you been for the last month?
     
    , Sep 18, 2007
    #3
  4. Super Mario

    RMZ Guest

    On Sep 18, 4:02 pm, (Super Mario) wrote:
    > "Paramount's move to release discs only in the HD-DVD format deals a
    > blow to Sony's Blu-ray camp and makes the bigger battle too close to
    > call..."
    >
    > Business Week article:http://301url.com/cah


    The catalog:
    http://www.imdb.com/company/co0023400/

    To hit some highlights: All Mission Impossible Films, all Indiana
    Jones films (including thet one in production now), the Jurassic Park
    films, highest grossing movie of all time Titanic and last, but not
    least all Star Trek releases, including the season boxed sets to all
    television incarnations as well as the movies. Blu-Ray looks less
    appealing each month. When at sub $200 player hits at Walmart within a
    few months I believe the tide will shift quickly and those betting on
    Blu-Ray will realize how poor of a choice that was.
     
    RMZ, Sep 19, 2007
    #4
  5. RMZ wrote:
    > On Sep 18, 4:02 pm, (Super Mario) wrote:
    >
    >>"Paramount's move to release discs only in the HD-DVD format deals a
    >>blow to Sony's Blu-ray camp and makes the bigger battle too close to
    >>call..."
    >>
    >>Business Week article:http://301url.com/cah


    What Toshiba and Microsoft THOUGHT we would say after the Bribe:
    "Gosh, the war's just heating up!--Paramount made a radical choice to
    the superior format!"

    What the media analysts said after the Bribe:
    "Gosh, the war's just heating up!--Paramount made a radical choice to
    the superior format!"

    What DVD customers *really* said to Toshiba and Microsoft after the Bribe:
    "Oh, fer f***in' out loud, are you still HERE?????? >_< "

    (Well, okay, so you can't fool everybody. -_- )

    > The catalog:
    > http://www.imdb.com/company/co0023400/
    >
    > To hit some highlights: All Mission Impossible Films, all Indiana
    > Jones films (including thet one in production now), the Jurassic Park
    > films, highest grossing movie of all time Titanic and last, but not
    > least all Star Trek releases, including the season boxed sets to all
    > television incarnations as well as the movies.


    And when Paramount's exclusivity deal ends in (appropriately) 2009,
    their future policies may swing on having learned a valuable lesson
    about corporate PR.
    Lesson 1: Don't get the SEC and the Department of Justice suspicious of
    you.

    Derek Janssen
     
    Derek Janssen, Sep 19, 2007
    #5
  6. Super Mario

    ninphan Guest


    > To hit some highlights: All Mission Impossible Films, all Indiana
    > Jones films (including thet one in production now), the Jurassic Park
    > films, highest grossing movie of all time Titanic and last, but not
    > least all Star Trek releases, including the season boxed sets to all
    > television incarnations as well as the movies. Blu-Ray looks less
    > appealing each month. When at sub $200 player hits at Walmart within a
    > few months I believe the tide will shift quickly and those betting on
    > Blu-Ray will realize how poor of a choice that was.


    Whoopsie daisies - someone spoke too soon.

    The Mission Impossible films are already out on both HD DVD and Blu-
    ray.
    Future Mission Impossible films will be Blu-ray only as they are now
    United Artists property and as such distributed by MGM.
    Titanic is a production of both Paramount and Fox so it will be HD DVD
    only in USA and Blu-ray only in the rest of the world. Fox will be
    releasing it in both UK and Japan which means it will be an all
    regions release.
    Jurassic Park is directed by Steven Spielberg, as are the Indiana
    Jones movies. No Spielberg movies are allowed to be released
    exclusively on HD DVD as the director controls them. He is releasing
    his first film on Blu-ray Disc in November and has recorded a new high
    definition introduction to it and is said to be immensely pleased with
    the Blu-ray release. That movie? Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
    That means no Indiana Jones movie, no Jurassic Park movie, no Jaws, no
    Saving Private Ryan, no Minority Report, no Munich, no War of the
    Worlds, no Schindler's List, etc., etc., etc.
    >From the Viacom (Dreamworks SKG/Paramount Pictures parent company)

    press release:
    http://www.viacom.com/NEWS/NewsText.aspx?RID=1042073
    "Today's announcement does not include films directed by Steven
    Spielberg as his films are not exclusive to either format."
    Not exclusive to either format (unless of course it's Blu-ray - see
    Close Encounters for further proof of that)

    It should also be noted that this deal has only 18 months to it and it
    is rumoured that it there is a notwithstanding clause that states if
    Time Warner goes Blu-ray exclusive at any time in said 18 months, as
    they are expected to do next year (Time Warner are on the Blu-ray Disc
    Association's Board of Directors) the 18 month deal can be opted out
    of.

    No, Blu-ray is looking better and better everyday. Sales of Blu-ray
    Discs are still 2:1 over HD DVD. When Blades of Glory and Heroes
    Season 1 came out exclusively on HD DVD a few Tuesdays ago and Blu-ray
    had ZERO new releases, Blu-ray still won that week's sales 56:44!

    Exclusive day and date releases by format heading into 4th quarter

    HD DVD
    Knocked Up
    Bourne Ulitmatum
    Transformers
    Chuck and Larry
    Star Trek First Season
    Evan Almighty
    A Mighty Heart
    Shrek 3

    Blu-ray
    Spiderman 3
    Die Hard 4
    Fantastic Four 2
    Pirates of the Caribbean 3
    Ratatouille
    Surf's Up
    28 Weeks Later
    Reign Over Me
    Lost Season 3
    The Hills Have Eyes 2
    Hostel II
    Mr. Brooks
    Meet The Robinsons
    Hairspray
    Underdog

    Neutral biggies
    Oceans 13
    Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

    When "300" came out the Blu-ray outsold the HD DVD 1.91:1 in the first
    week, then 2.47:1 and 2.22:1 in the second and third weeks.
    Expect more of the same with those last two titles there in the
    neutral section.

    Blu-ray disc sales this Christmas are going to trounce HD DVD sales.

    New Blu-ray players/camcorders/pcdrives announced for the holiday
    season and first half of 2008
    JVC
    Denon
    Daewoo
    Loewe
    Sharp
    Sony
    Samsung
    Panasonic
    Philips
    Pioneer
    Hitachi
    Funai
    Ben-Q


    On the HD DVD side
    Toshiba
    Venturer
    Onkyo
    Integra

    So you seriously think Blu-ray purchasers are going to think THEY have
    made a bad decision? Not likely.
     
    ninphan, Sep 19, 2007
    #6
  7. In message news:, RMZ
    sprach forth the following:

    > those betting on
    > Blu-Ray will realize how poor of a choice that was.
    >


    Is there anything more totally faggot than being a format fanboy?
     
    Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute, Sep 19, 2007
    #7
  8. In article <>,
    ninphan <> wrote:

    > > To hit some highlights: All Mission Impossible Films, all Indiana
    > > Jones films (including thet one in production now), the Jurassic Park
    > > films, highest grossing movie of all time Titanic and last, but not
    > > least all Star Trek releases, including the season boxed sets to all
    > > television incarnations as well as the movies. Blu-Ray looks less
    > > appealing each month. When at sub $200 player hits at Walmart within a
    > > few months I believe the tide will shift quickly and those betting on
    > > Blu-Ray will realize how poor of a choice that was.

    >
    > Whoopsie daisies - someone spoke too soon.
    >
    > The Mission Impossible films are already out on both HD DVD and Blu-
    > ray.
    > Future Mission Impossible films will be Blu-ray only as they are now
    > United Artists property and as such distributed by MGM.
    > Titanic is a production of both Paramount and Fox so it will be HD DVD
    > only in USA and Blu-ray only in the rest of the world. Fox will be
    > releasing it in both UK and Japan which means it will be an all
    > regions release.
    > Jurassic Park is directed by Steven Spielberg, as are the Indiana
    > Jones movies. No Spielberg movies are allowed to be released
    > exclusively on HD DVD as the director controls them. He is releasing
    > his first film on Blu-ray Disc in November and has recorded a new high
    > definition introduction to it and is said to be immensely pleased with
    > the Blu-ray release. That movie? Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
    > That means no Indiana Jones movie, no Jurassic Park movie, no Jaws, no
    > Saving Private Ryan, no Minority Report, no Munich, no War of the
    > Worlds, no Schindler's List, etc., etc., etc.
    > >From the Viacom (Dreamworks SKG/Paramount Pictures parent company)

    > press release:
    > http://www.viacom.com/NEWS/NewsText.aspx?RID=1042073
    > "Today's announcement does not include films directed by Steven
    > Spielberg as his films are not exclusive to either format."
    > Not exclusive to either format (unless of course it's Blu-ray - see
    > Close Encounters for further proof of that)
    >
    > It should also be noted that this deal has only 18 months to it and it
    > is rumoured that it there is a notwithstanding clause that states if
    > Time Warner goes Blu-ray exclusive at any time in said 18 months, as
    > they are expected to do next year (Time Warner are on the Blu-ray Disc
    > Association's Board of Directors) the 18 month deal can be opted out
    > of.
    >
    > No, Blu-ray is looking better and better everyday. Sales of Blu-ray
    > Discs are still 2:1 over HD DVD. When Blades of Glory and Heroes
    > Season 1 came out exclusively on HD DVD a few Tuesdays ago and Blu-ray
    > had ZERO new releases, Blu-ray still won that week's sales 56:44!
    >
    > Exclusive day and date releases by format heading into 4th quarter
    >
    > HD DVD
    > Knocked Up
    > Bourne Ulitmatum
    > Transformers
    > Chuck and Larry
    > Star Trek First Season
    > Evan Almighty
    > A Mighty Heart
    > Shrek 3
    >
    > Blu-ray
    > Spiderman 3
    > Die Hard 4
    > Fantastic Four 2
    > Pirates of the Caribbean 3
    > Ratatouille
    > Surf's Up
    > 28 Weeks Later
    > Reign Over Me
    > Lost Season 3
    > The Hills Have Eyes 2
    > Hostel II
    > Mr. Brooks
    > Meet The Robinsons
    > Hairspray
    > Underdog
    >
    > Neutral biggies
    > Oceans 13
    > Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
    >
    > When "300" came out the Blu-ray outsold the HD DVD 1.91:1 in the first
    > week, then 2.47:1 and 2.22:1 in the second and third weeks.
    > Expect more of the same with those last two titles there in the
    > neutral section.
    >
    > Blu-ray disc sales this Christmas are going to trounce HD DVD sales.
    >
    > New Blu-ray players/camcorders/pcdrives announced for the holiday
    > season and first half of 2008
    > JVC
    > Denon
    > Daewoo
    > Loewe
    > Sharp
    > Sony
    > Samsung
    > Panasonic
    > Philips
    > Pioneer
    > Hitachi
    > Funai
    > Ben-Q
    >
    >
    > On the HD DVD side
    > Toshiba
    > Venturer
    > Onkyo
    > Integra
    >
    > So you seriously think Blu-ray purchasers are going to think THEY have
    > made a bad decision? Not likely.


    All this is very nice. Now let's talk about the price you'll see in the
    store for the 2 HD format players:

    BluRay about $500 entry level and up (quite a bit) from there. The big
    downside is that all of them are Level 1 players, not a single one
    upgradeable to the new (as of 10/31/2007) profile, with the possible
    exception of the PS3. Denon had announced one with the new profile, but
    that has been delayed until after the 1st of the year.

    HDDVD about $200 entry level and up from there

    Combo - no one knows for sure, but maybe a $600 one by November.

    At these prices, either HDDVD wins this shopping season, on no one wins.
    BD won't win EVER at a $500+ entry price point. That is unless you want
    HiDef DVD to stay at 1% of the total DVD marketplace, which is hardly
    winning.

    Personally I think this phony 'war' will keep going for quite a while
    longer.
     
    Lloyd Parsons, Sep 19, 2007
    #8
  9. Lloyd Parsons wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > ninphan <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>So you seriously think Blu-ray purchasers are going to think THEY have
    >>made a bad decision? Not likely.

    >
    > All this is very nice. Now let's talk about the price you'll see in the
    > store for the 2 HD format players:


    Sure--Because, as we've seen on other boards, that's ALL HD fans do:
    "People want cheap players".
    Good, think I'll buy me one of them Chinese players at Wal-mart, along
    with a Vanilla Coke and a bag of Cheetos...Okay, just kidding.

    Unfortunately, the topic of storage capacity, audio codecs, 1080i vs p,
    HDMI 1.3 rarely gets brought up, and when it does, we get thrown some
    scare-story fact from 2006 that has since been firmwared out of existence.
    But, hey, how about them cheap players?

    (And yes, I know: Alt.games and a.v.dvd are "pro-HD" because we had the
    Gibbering Idiot plugging Blu--
    But it's a new world now....Flying cars, 'n everything:
    Yes, the Idiot still Gibbers--although we haven't heard the peep of a
    gibber in months--but HD dropped the ball, acted like morons, resorted
    to criminal activity to keep Microsoft's hope of HDM code monopoly
    alive, even Disney and Dreamworks are now pointing "bribe" fingers when
    the press can't, and HD now can't keep up a reasonably updated technical
    argument in favor of their own product going to save their lives.

    Being a Blu proponent now no longer means being a "Whoa, d00d!" PS3
    gamer-boi, it means now trying to see an integrated end to the format
    war, and how to engineer future consumer-friendliness into one format to
    levee-dam that '09 floodwave of newbies that's about to hit.
    Sorry, guys, you had your chance, but like David Mamet says, Things Change.)

    Derek Janssen (who gets out a little, once in a while)
     
    Derek Janssen, Sep 19, 2007
    #9
  10. In article <aDdIi.4964$fz2.2944@trndny03>,
    Derek Janssen <> wrote:

    > Lloyd Parsons wrote:
    > > In article <>,
    > > ninphan <> wrote:
    > >
    > >>
    > >>So you seriously think Blu-ray purchasers are going to think THEY have
    > >>made a bad decision? Not likely.

    > >
    > > All this is very nice. Now let's talk about the price you'll see in the
    > > store for the 2 HD format players:

    >
    > Sure--Because, as we've seen on other boards, that's ALL HD fans do:
    > "People want cheap players".
    > Good, think I'll buy me one of them Chinese players at Wal-mart, along
    > with a Vanilla Coke and a bag of Cheetos...Okay, just kidding.
    >
    > Unfortunately, the topic of storage capacity, audio codecs, 1080i vs p,
    > HDMI 1.3 rarely gets brought up, and when it does, we get thrown some
    > scare-story fact from 2006 that has since been firmwared out of existence.
    > But, hey, how about them cheap players?
    >
    > (And yes, I know: Alt.games and a.v.dvd are "pro-HD" because we had the
    > Gibbering Idiot plugging Blu--
    > But it's a new world now....Flying cars, 'n everything:
    > Yes, the Idiot still Gibbers--although we haven't heard the peep of a
    > gibber in months--but HD dropped the ball, acted like morons, resorted
    > to criminal activity to keep Microsoft's hope of HDM code monopoly
    > alive, even Disney and Dreamworks are now pointing "bribe" fingers when
    > the press can't, and HD now can't keep up a reasonably updated technical
    > argument in favor of their own product going to save their lives.
    >
    > Being a Blu proponent now no longer means being a "Whoa, d00d!" PS3
    > gamer-boi, it means now trying to see an integrated end to the format
    > war, and how to engineer future consumer-friendliness into one format to
    > levee-dam that '09 floodwave of newbies that's about to hit.
    > Sorry, guys, you had your chance, but like David Mamet says, Things Change.)
    >
    > Derek Janssen (who gets out a little, once in a while)
    >


    You are confusing the wants and needs of the audio/videophile and geeks
    with those of the average consumer. Every poll and study done shows
    that cheaper is what gets it done in CE.

    The Blu Ray fans always want to talk about the technology, but usually
    it is the technology that is coming in the next version after the next
    version after the next version. The consumer world just doesn't give
    one fine rat's ass about that. In fact, the talking about the profile
    levels points out that BD was brought to market way too soon. Hell,
    I'll even give you that BD is better in many respects than HDDVD. But
    that won't sell the damn things.

    What the consumer wants is a cheap hi definition DVD that works well.
    At the moment, he isn't being offered one from the BD camp at all, and
    only marginally from the HDDVD camp.

    As to who paid who to do what, well that won't wash. There was and is
    plenty of money being splashed around on both sides to keep the justice
    dept busy for lots of years if they were so inclined. But neither side
    wants to see that happen.

    What should be happening is that ALL THE DAMN STUDIOS should be pressing
    both formats and let the consumer speak with his wallet. But currently
    neither side wants that to happen.

    Now to HDMI. If there ever was a connector that was designed without
    the consumer in mind, this one is it. It is now and looks like will
    always be a PITA! While it looks to make things simpler, we keep
    reading about this player and that AVR with that TV just don't like
    something in the chain. And it is all about the 'security' that the
    mfgs and studios wanted incorporated, consumer be damned.

    Currently all too many products and technology from the CE mfgs are just
    missing the consumer mark. And if you are taking a strong side in the
    Hi Def DVD war, you almost have to be an idiot. I don't give a crap
    which side wins, and I'm not sure I want either to win until they get
    the prices down for an entry level machine and the software (movies).
     
    Lloyd Parsons, Sep 19, 2007
    #10
  11. Lloyd Parsons wrote:

    >>>All this is very nice. Now let's talk about the price you'll see in the
    >>>store for the 2 HD format players:

    >>
    >>Sure--Because, as we've seen on other boards, that's ALL HD fans do:
    >>"People want cheap players".
    >>Unfortunately, the topic of storage capacity, audio codecs, 1080i vs p,
    >>HDMI 1.3 rarely gets brought up, and when it does, we get thrown some
    >>scare-story fact from 2006 that has since been firmwared out of existence.
    >>But, hey, how about them cheap players?
    >>
    >>Being a Blu proponent now no longer means being a "Whoa, d00d!" PS3
    >>gamer-boi, it means now trying to see an integrated end to the format
    >>war, and how to engineer future consumer-friendliness into one format to
    >>levee-dam that '09 floodwave of newbies that's about to hit.
    >>Sorry, guys, you had your chance, but like David Mamet says, Things Change.)

    >
    > You are confusing the wants and needs of the audio/videophile and geeks
    > with those of the average consumer. Every poll and study done shows
    > that cheaper is what gets it done in CE.
    >
    > The Blu Ray fans always want to talk about the technology, but usually
    > it is the technology that is coming in the next version after the next
    > version after the next version. The consumer world just doesn't give
    > one fine rat's ass about that.


    Actually, they do, which's why sales have been slow lately:
    Blu's had to put out statements saying, "No, really, it's okay, you CAN
    buy a player before October!"
    Most seem to be waiting for the Q4 third-generations anyway, as the
    mindset seems to be in with the armchair tech-buying Best Buy customers
    (who don't shop at Wal-mart) that they don't want to replace their
    purchase next year when the industry throws them another curve ball.
    Between the substandard product that's ready now, and a suitable and
    adaptably ground-level product that's ready tomorrow, the one that's
    "complete" now is...not a good idea. Tomorrow is always another day.

    > What the consumer wants is a cheap hi definition DVD that works well.
    > At the moment, he isn't being offered one from the BD camp at all, and
    > only marginally from the HDDVD camp.


    So, basically, what we're hearing from the HD camp is "Well, sure, the
    other guys claim they may have some technical edge NEXT year, but it
    doesn't matter now, because the customers are idiots who don't know
    better, and they're going to buy our format by accident...That's what
    they do!"

    (Um...well....I'm sold. 0_0''
    Nice to see an industry treating their product's sales like a Victim of
    Circumstance.)

    Derek Janssen (or "Soicumstance", for Curly fans)
     
    Derek Janssen, Sep 19, 2007
    #11
  12. In article <_4eIi.15041$No2.14340@trndny07>,
    Derek Janssen <> wrote:

    > Lloyd Parsons wrote:
    >
    > >>>All this is very nice. Now let's talk about the price you'll see in the
    > >>>store for the 2 HD format players:
    > >>
    > >>Sure--Because, as we've seen on other boards, that's ALL HD fans do:
    > >>"People want cheap players".
    > >>Unfortunately, the topic of storage capacity, audio codecs, 1080i vs p,
    > >>HDMI 1.3 rarely gets brought up, and when it does, we get thrown some
    > >>scare-story fact from 2006 that has since been firmwared out of existence.
    > >>But, hey, how about them cheap players?
    > >>
    > >>Being a Blu proponent now no longer means being a "Whoa, d00d!" PS3
    > >>gamer-boi, it means now trying to see an integrated end to the format
    > >>war, and how to engineer future consumer-friendliness into one format to
    > >>levee-dam that '09 floodwave of newbies that's about to hit.
    > >>Sorry, guys, you had your chance, but like David Mamet says, Things Change.)

    > >
    > > You are confusing the wants and needs of the audio/videophile and geeks
    > > with those of the average consumer. Every poll and study done shows
    > > that cheaper is what gets it done in CE.
    > >
    > > The Blu Ray fans always want to talk about the technology, but usually
    > > it is the technology that is coming in the next version after the next
    > > version after the next version. The consumer world just doesn't give
    > > one fine rat's ass about that.

    >
    > Actually, they do, which's why sales have been slow lately:
    > Blu's had to put out statements saying, "No, really, it's okay, you CAN
    > buy a player before October!"
    > Most seem to be waiting for the Q4 third-generations anyway, as the
    > mindset seems to be in with the armchair tech-buying Best Buy customers
    > (who don't shop at Wal-mart) that they don't want to replace their
    > purchase next year when the industry throws them another curve ball.
    > Between the substandard product that's ready now, and a suitable and
    > adaptably ground-level product that's ready tomorrow, the one that's
    > "complete" now is...not a good idea. Tomorrow is always another day.
    >
    > > What the consumer wants is a cheap hi definition DVD that works well.
    > > At the moment, he isn't being offered one from the BD camp at all, and
    > > only marginally from the HDDVD camp.

    >
    > So, basically, what we're hearing from the HD camp is "Well, sure, the
    > other guys claim they may have some technical edge NEXT year, but it
    > doesn't matter now, because the customers are idiots who don't know
    > better, and they're going to buy our format by accident...That's what
    > they do!"
    >
    > (Um...well....I'm sold. 0_0''
    > Nice to see an industry treating their product's sales like a Victim of
    > Circumstance.)
    >
    > Derek Janssen (or "Soicumstance", for Curly fans)
    >


    Was it ever different?

    BTW, sales are slow lately because this is a slow buying time overall.
    And with other pressures on the economy (like the housing bubble
    issues), it may be a slow holiday buying season also.

    Back to that old tech thing... ;-)

    If being the best technology was what sold, the PS3 would be flying off
    the shelves, and Sony would be making buckets of money off it. Yet that
    isn't the case at all. The sales are sluggish and that is with Sony
    practically giving them away, losing bunches of bucks with each and
    every sale.

    Heck, they can't even get someone to write a game for it that makes
    gamers go 'wow!'

    BTW, if BD were to have the new profile in place and all the movies took
    advantage of it, they would still be behind HDDVD. No internet
    connection required for BD's next profile, and Warner likes it and uses
    it with some of their releases with more planned.

    When 300 released on both, the BD camp made a big deal out of the sales
    ratio. But that was when the HDDVD version was a combo disk at a higher
    price.

    Now Warner is getting ready to release another combo HDDVD and BD ( one
    of the Harry Potter ones), but the price will be the same. With the
    sluggish sales of both formats I don't know if people will really
    notice, but it will be interesting to see if the ratio holds up.
    Assuming it does, it still leaves BD pathetic with the lead it has in
    actual players.

    Of course, pathetic is just the perfect description of the total hi def
    dvd market at the moment anyway.
     
    Lloyd Parsons, Sep 19, 2007
    #12
  13. Lloyd Parsons wrote:
    >
    > If being the best technology was what sold, the PS3 would be flying off
    > the shelves, and Sony would be making buckets of money off it. Yet that
    > isn't the case at all. The sales are sluggish and that is with Sony
    > practically giving them away, losing bunches of bucks with each and
    > every sale.
    >
    > Heck, they can't even get someone to write a game for it that makes
    > gamers go 'wow!'


    And ironically, some polls show 2/3 of gamerz weren't even aware it WAS
    a Blu player.
    (Well, we know one who did, but let's forget about him for the moment.)

    > BTW, if BD were to have the new profile in place and all the movies took
    > advantage of it, they would still be behind HDDVD. No internet
    > connection required for BD's next profile,


    (Nope, just Ethernet, sorry.)

    > and Warner likes it and uses it with some of their releases with more planned.


    Well, that was pretty much over the fact that they'd invested so much
    R&D cash into the "TotalHD" disks that were supposed to bring peace out
    of the war--
    And which are now being quietly backshelved and retired by the company
    without undue embarrassment.

    Recent rumor has it that Toshiba was in fact more interested in bribing
    Warner out of neutrality (so they could leverage Paramount/Dream with
    "Uh, yeahh, we're in talks with Warner at the moment..."), but,
    um...think we can guess whether there's any love there. -_-

    > When 300 released on both, the BD camp made a big deal out of the sales
    > ratio. But that was when the HDDVD version was a combo disk at a higher
    > price.


    And before Universal and Warner retired their combo disks, and
    re-released all previously DVD-combo movies on solo-HD disks.
    Well, there's our first official casualty of the War--Better get up that
    new tomb at Arlington. :)

    > Of course, pathetic is just the perfect description of the total hi def
    > dvd market at the moment anyway.


    ....Don't own a screen, huh? ^_^

    (It's said that techies With the new toys should never ask the techies
    Without for sympathy, as it's a lost cause, but...trust us on this one.
    Old-school DVD fans know the first taste of addictive Mainstream Video
    Crack when they see one, and they know a future Outbreak before it hits--
    And if we're talking "Gullible customers who don't know better", let's
    talk about mainstream middle-class Circuit City customers browbeaten
    into thinking they have to by a widescreen HDTV before February '09 just
    to watch TV.) >:)

    Derek Janssen (oh yeah, we're about to see "Nobody owns those big
    screens anyway" retired REAL quick)
     
    Derek Janssen, Sep 19, 2007
    #13
  14. In article <rPeIi.4894$603.1787@trndny02>,
    Derek Janssen <> wrote:

    > Lloyd Parsons wrote:
    > >
    > > If being the best technology was what sold, the PS3 would be flying off
    > > the shelves, and Sony would be making buckets of money off it. Yet that
    > > isn't the case at all. The sales are sluggish and that is with Sony
    > > practically giving them away, losing bunches of bucks with each and
    > > every sale.
    > >
    > > Heck, they can't even get someone to write a game for it that makes
    > > gamers go 'wow!'

    >
    > And ironically, some polls show 2/3 of gamerz weren't even aware it WAS
    > a Blu player.
    > (Well, we know one who did, but let's forget about him for the moment.)


    I read somewhere that the % of PS3 owners that know it is a BD player
    was quite low, and that of that number, even fewer used it that way.

    >
    > > BTW, if BD were to have the new profile in place and all the movies took
    > > advantage of it, they would still be behind HDDVD. No internet
    > > connection required for BD's next profile,

    >
    > (Nope, just Ethernet, sorry.)
    >

    Not mandatory, only optional. Currently other than the PS3, only one
    other BD player has it.

    > > and Warner likes it and uses it with some of their releases with more
    > > planned.

    >
    > Well, that was pretty much over the fact that they'd invested so much
    > R&D cash into the "TotalHD" disks that were supposed to bring peace out
    > of the war--
    > And which are now being quietly backshelved and retired by the company
    > without undue embarrassment.
    >

    Yeah, TotalHD flopped quick didn't it? :-0

    > Recent rumor has it that Toshiba was in fact more interested in bribing
    > Warner out of neutrality (so they could leverage Paramount/Dream with
    > "Uh, yeahh, we're in talks with Warner at the moment..."), but,
    > um...think we can guess whether there's any love there. -_-
    >
    > > When 300 released on both, the BD camp made a big deal out of the sales
    > > ratio. But that was when the HDDVD version was a combo disk at a higher
    > > price.

    >
    > And before Universal and Warner retired their combo disks, and
    > re-released all previously DVD-combo movies on solo-HD disks.
    > Well, there's our first official casualty of the War--Better get up that
    > new tomb at Arlington. :)
    >

    Other than the price difference, I never understood why the combo was a
    bad idea, still don't. Buy a movie now, play it on your current DVD
    player, and later with a HDDVD player. Made good sense.

    > > Of course, pathetic is just the perfect description of the total hi def
    > > dvd market at the moment anyway.

    >
    > ...Don't own a screen, huh? ^_^
    >
    > (It's said that techies With the new toys should never ask the techies
    > Without for sympathy, as it's a lost cause, but...trust us on this one.
    > Old-school DVD fans know the first taste of addictive Mainstream Video
    > Crack when they see one, and they know a future Outbreak before it hits--
    > And if we're talking "Gullible customers who don't know better", let's
    > talk about mainstream middle-class Circuit City customers browbeaten
    > into thinking they have to by a widescreen HDTV before February '09 just
    > to watch TV.) >:)
    >
    > Derek Janssen (oh yeah, we're about to see "Nobody owns those big
    > screens anyway" retired REAL quick)
    >


    I guess you either don't read here often or have a short memory span,
    but here's what my toy room has :

    JVC 61" HD-iLA (1080i 'cause they didn't have 1080p then)

    Toshiba HD-A2 HDDVD player

    Sony BDP-S300 BD player. This is my last Sony purchase. This player
    spec'd out TrueHD on page 48 of the owner's manual, but it doesn't
    decode it and it appears no firmware upgrade to implement it is gonna
    happen. This in spite of the fact the board is the same as in the S1.

    My procrastinator's delight AV system:
    Harman Kardon AVR247 (main receiver)
    Yamaha RX-V661 (as a pre/pro for the BD and HDDVD players)

    Dish Network Vip622 HD-DVR Satellite Receiver.

    For info, I ended up with both AVRs 'cause while trying both out, I kept
    them past the 30 days. So I thought, what the hell! The HK is superior
    in most ways (IMO) to the Yamaha, but it doesn't currently do 7.1 LPCM
    via HDMI nor layer Dolby iix over 5.1, but the Yamaha does.

    So HDMI from the players to the Yamaha, video out HDMI via switch to the
    TV, audio out the 8 channel pre outs to the 8 channel analog inputs on
    the HK. Makes for one sweet sounding system and my fingers love the
    workout they get on the remotes! :)
     
    Lloyd Parsons, Sep 19, 2007
    #14
  15. Lloyd Parsons wrote:

    > In article <rPeIi.4894$603.1787@trndny02>,
    > Derek Janssen <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Lloyd Parsons wrote:
    >>
    >>>If being the best technology was what sold, the PS3 would be flying off
    >>>the shelves, and Sony would be making buckets of money off it. Yet that
    >>>isn't the case at all. The sales are sluggish and that is with Sony
    >>>practically giving them away, losing bunches of bucks with each and
    >>>every sale.
    >>>
    >>>Heck, they can't even get someone to write a game for it that makes
    >>>gamers go 'wow!'

    >>
    >>And ironically, some polls show 2/3 of gamerz weren't even aware it WAS
    >>a Blu player.
    >>(Well, we know one who did, but let's forget about him for the moment.)

    >
    >
    > I read somewhere that the % of PS3 owners that know it is a BD player
    > was quite low, and that of that number, even fewer used it that way.
    >
    >
    >>>BTW, if BD were to have the new profile in place and all the movies took
    >>>advantage of it, they would still be behind HDDVD. No internet
    >>>connection required for BD's next profile,

    >>
    >>(Nope, just Ethernet, sorry.)
    >>

    >
    > Not mandatory, only optional. Currently other than the PS3, only one
    > other BD player has it.
    >
    >
    >>>and Warner likes it and uses it with some of their releases with more
    >>>planned.

    >>
    >>Well, that was pretty much over the fact that they'd invested so much
    >>R&D cash into the "TotalHD" disks that were supposed to bring peace out
    >>of the war--
    >>And which are now being quietly backshelved and retired by the company
    >>without undue embarrassment.
    >>

    >
    > Yeah, TotalHD flopped quick didn't it? :-0
    >
    >
    >>Recent rumor has it that Toshiba was in fact more interested in bribing
    >>Warner out of neutrality (so they could leverage Paramount/Dream with
    >>"Uh, yeahh, we're in talks with Warner at the moment..."), but,
    >>um...think we can guess whether there's any love there. -_-
    >>
    >>
    >>>When 300 released on both, the BD camp made a big deal out of the sales
    >>>ratio. But that was when the HDDVD version was a combo disk at a higher
    >>>price.

    >>
    >>And before Universal and Warner retired their combo disks, and
    >>re-released all previously DVD-combo movies on solo-HD disks.
    >>Well, there's our first official casualty of the War--Better get up that
    >>new tomb at Arlington. :)
    >>

    >
    > Other than the price difference, I never understood why the combo was a
    > bad idea, still don't. Buy a movie now, play it on your current DVD
    > player, and later with a HDDVD player. Made good sense.
    >
    >
    >>>Of course, pathetic is just the perfect description of the total hi def
    >>>dvd market at the moment anyway.

    >>
    >>...Don't own a screen, huh? ^_^
    >>
    >>(It's said that techies With the new toys should never ask the techies
    >>Without for sympathy, as it's a lost cause, but...trust us on this one.
    >>Old-school DVD fans know the first taste of addictive Mainstream Video
    >>Crack when they see one, and they know a future Outbreak before it hits--
    >>And if we're talking "Gullible customers who don't know better", let's
    >>talk about mainstream middle-class Circuit City customers browbeaten
    >>into thinking they have to by a widescreen HDTV before February '09 just
    >>to watch TV.) >:)
    >>
    >>Derek Janssen (oh yeah, we're about to see "Nobody owns those big
    >>screens anyway" retired REAL quick)
    >>

    >
    >
    > I guess you either don't read here often or have a short memory span,
    > but here's what my toy room has :
    >
    > JVC 61" HD-iLA (1080i 'cause they didn't have 1080p then)
    >
    > Toshiba HD-A2 HDDVD player
    >
    > Sony BDP-S300 BD player. This is my last Sony purchase. This player
    > spec'd out TrueHD on page 48 of the owner's manual, but it doesn't
    > decode it and it appears no firmware upgrade to implement it is gonna
    > happen. This in spite of the fact the board is the same as in the S1.
    >
    > My procrastinator's delight AV system:
    > Harman Kardon AVR247 (main receiver)
    > Yamaha RX-V661 (as a pre/pro for the BD and HDDVD players)
    >
    > Dish Network Vip622 HD-DVR Satellite Receiver.
    >
    > For info, I ended up with both AVRs 'cause while trying both out, I kept
    > them past the 30 days. So I thought, what the hell! The HK is superior
    > in most ways (IMO) to the Yamaha, but it doesn't currently do 7.1 LPCM
    > via HDMI nor layer Dolby iix over 5.1, but the Yamaha does.
    >
    > So HDMI from the players to the Yamaha, video out HDMI via switch to the
    > TV, audio out the 8 channel pre outs to the 8 channel analog inputs on
    > the HK. Makes for one sweet sounding system and my fingers love the
    > workout they get on the remotes! :)
     
    Derek Janssen, Sep 19, 2007
    #15
  16. Lloyd Parsons wrote:

    >>
    >>>When 300 released on both, the BD camp made a big deal out of the sales
    >>>ratio. But that was when the HDDVD version was a combo disk at a higher
    >>>price.

    >>
    >>And before Universal and Warner retired their combo disks, and
    >>re-released all previously DVD-combo movies on solo-HD disks.
    >>Well, there's our first official casualty of the War--Better get up that
    >>new tomb at Arlington. :)

    >
    > Other than the price difference, I never understood why the combo was a
    > bad idea, still don't. Buy a movie now, play it on your current DVD
    > player, and later with a HDDVD player. Made good sense.


    Not to the customers:
    The concept was supposed to stem the old "Fear of replacing your
    library" phobia that was buried in the unwashed-consumer DNA since the
    days of VCR->DVD.

    Until word got out that both players were backwards compatible and you
    DIDN'T have to have a "crutch" to still play your DVD's*...
    Which brought the issue back down to where it was in the first place,
    namely customers doing their homework and choosing sides over a format.
    Which they seem to have done.

    (*- Oh, watch, now we're going to get "Yeah, but the PS3 doesn't
    upconvert!" thing from 2006...
    No, really, HD people are *still* using that one a year later!--See what
    I mean?)

    >>>Of course, pathetic is just the perfect description of the total hi def
    >>>dvd market at the moment anyway.

    >>
    >>...Don't own a screen, huh? ^_^

    >
    > I guess you either don't read here often or have a short memory span,
    > but here's what my toy room has :
    >
    > Sony BDP-S300 BD player. This is my last Sony purchase. This player
    > spec'd out TrueHD on page 48 of the owner's manual, but it doesn't
    > decode it and it appears no firmware upgrade to implement it is gonna
    > happen. This in spite of the fact the board is the same as in the S1.


    Believe me, a few months with Blu-Boy, and a PS3 was the LAST thing on
    this good green earth I was interested in getting as a player... >_<

    But FWIH, you're not the only one who threw Sony out with the bathwater
    over the first/second-gen S300 mistake--
    Me, I was keeping an eye on Samsung, but after their hoped-for third-gen
    hadn't gotten their Profile yet, I had to face the tech-player advice
    that the PS3 really *was* the only good current '07 Sony standalone out
    there for firmware upgrade ability.

    ....Yeah, I know, galls the heck outta me too, but customer reviews don't
    lie.

    Derek Janssen (and one word...So help me, ONE WORD out of a.g.v.sp3...) :mad:
     
    Derek Janssen, Sep 19, 2007
    #16
  17. In article <MAfIi.15045$No2.2111@trndny07>,
    Derek Janssen <> wrote:

    > > Sony BDP-S300 BD player. This is my last Sony purchase. This player
    > > spec'd out TrueHD on page 48 of the owner's manual, but it doesn't
    > > decode it and it appears no firmware upgrade to implement it is gonna
    > > happen. This in spite of the fact the board is the same as in the S1.

    >
    > Believe me, a few months with Blu-Boy, and a PS3 was the LAST thing on
    > this good green earth I was interested in getting as a player... >_<
    >
    > But FWIH, you're not the only one who threw Sony out with the bathwater
    > over the first/second-gen S300 mistake--
    > Me, I was keeping an eye on Samsung, but after their hoped-for third-gen
    > hadn't gotten their Profile yet, I had to face the tech-player advice
    > that the PS3 really *was* the only good current '07 Sony standalone out
    > there for firmware upgrade ability.
    >
    > ...Yeah, I know, galls the heck outta me too, but customer reviews don't
    > lie.
    >
    > Derek Janssen (and one word...So help me, ONE WORD out of a.g.v.sp3...) :mad:
    >


    But Sony is damn mum about how far they will go to upgrade the PS3.
    There is no assurance it will happen. FWIW, I think it will be.

    So I'll just wait a bit before buying any new BD player.
     
    Lloyd Parsons, Sep 19, 2007
    #17
  18. Lloyd Parsons wrote:

    >>Believe me, a few months with Blu-Boy, and a PS3 was the LAST thing on
    >>this good green earth I was interested in getting as a player... >_<
    >>
    >>But FWIH, you're not the only one who threw Sony out with the bathwater
    >>over the first/second-gen S300 mistake--
    >>Me, I was keeping an eye on Samsung, but after their hoped-for third-gen
    >>hadn't gotten their Profile yet, I had to face the tech-player advice
    >>that the PS3 really *was* the only good current '07 Sony standalone out
    >>there for firmware upgrade ability.
    >>

    > But Sony is damn mum about how far they will go to upgrade the PS3.
    > There is no assurance it will happen. FWIW, I think it will be.
    >
    > So I'll just wait a bit before buying any new BD player.


    Not as mum as Sharp is about specs on their mysterious Q4 Aquos player--
    Which's why I'm also keeping an eye on the "third player" before
    *officially* going PS3...After CES'08 at the earliest.
    (To bring us back to topic.)

    But the issue on PS3 was over whether the chips COULD upgrade to
    firmware updates, which seems to have been the stumbling block so far
    with the S300 and other early standalones--
    The chips on the home-theater models proved to be so unadaptable to
    other uses, they haven't responded well to upgrades as well as the
    all-purpose models.

    (And y'see, here we're back to that little "It'll still work tomorrow"
    thing that frustrates the "Already available" HD fans who can't
    understand why Blu fans have patience about "what isn't out yet":
    Always have to buy your clothes with growing room.)

    Derek Janssen
     
    Derek Janssen, Sep 19, 2007
    #18
  19. Super Mario

    ninphan Guest

    On Sep 19, 4:45 pm, Derek Janssen <> wrote:
    > Lloyd Parsons wrote:
    > >>Believe me, a few months with Blu-Boy, and a PS3 was the LAST thing on
    > >>this good green earth I was interested in getting as a player... >_<

    >
    > >>But FWIH, you're not the only one who threw Sony out with the bathwater
    > >>over the first/second-gen S300 mistake--
    > >>Me, I was keeping an eye on Samsung, but after their hoped-for third-gen
    > >>hadn't gotten their Profile yet, I had to face the tech-player advice
    > >>that the PS3 really *was* the only good current '07 Sony standalone out
    > >>there for firmware upgrade ability.

    >
    > > But Sony is damn mum about how far they will go to upgrade the PS3.
    > > There is no assurance it will happen. FWIW, I think it will be.

    >
    > > So I'll just wait a bit before buying any new BD player.

    >
    > Not as mum as Sharp is about specs on their mysterious Q4 Aquos player--
    > Which's why I'm also keeping an eye on the "third player" before
    > *officially* going PS3...After CES'08 at the earliest.
    > (To bring us back to topic.)
    >
    > But the issue on PS3 was over whether the chips COULD upgrade to
    > firmware updates, which seems to have been the stumbling block so far
    > with the S300 and other early standalones--
    > The chips on the home-theater models proved to be so unadaptable to
    > other uses, they haven't responded well to upgrades as well as the
    > all-purpose models.
    >
    > (And y'see, here we're back to that little "It'll still work tomorrow"
    > thing that frustrates the "Already available" HD fans who can't
    > understand why Blu fans have patience about "what isn't out yet":
    > Always have to buy your clothes with growing room.)
    >
    > Derek Janssen
    >


    Blu-ray fans probably have patience because they don't care about PIP
    getting in the way of watching the main movie.
    It's all about picture quality and the Blu-ray players have it and the
    HD DVD players with the exception of the XA2 do not.
    1080p/24 on a set that accepts and displays at either 72Hz or 120Hz is
    always going to be a more accurate picture than a 1080i/60 source.
    Just look at Gary Merson's numerous tests done on sets with that input
    signal - disastrous, over 50% failure on deinterlacing and worse on
    3:2 pulldown on 1080i/60 sources like the A2.

    I keep hearing a lot about price and Toshiba has had players at the
    $200 mark often this year, yet HD DVD still cannot win a single week's
    worth of sales, not one week, this whole entire year!!! It's Q4 in 10
    days and HD DVD looks like HD DUD I'm afraid. Call it fanboyism if you
    wish, I call it reality. I call it a desire to see an end to the war
    with the best format on the market and that is Blu-ray.

    I also keep hearing a lot about how HD DVD has a finished spec, yet
    now I hear a lot about HD51 discs! I guess the spec isn't finished at
    all is it?

    Sharp have released their specs. It supports TrueHD decoding,
    bitstream audio out through HDMI of DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby TrueHD,
    DTS-HD, Dolby Digital Plus and is profile 1.0 compliant as it is being
    released before October 31st, 2007. Their all in one BD-MPC70 Blu-ray
    Home Cinema System is a different story. It will be released in Spring
    2008 and will be at least profile 1.1 compliant, much like the
    upcoming Denon DVD-3800BD player.

    As for Blu-ray players starting at $500 for this Christmas...where do
    people come up with this crap? Do they not bother researching before
    typing?

    The new Samsung BD-P1400 with DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD
    support through HDMI bitstream 1.3a and 1080p/24 output is $429.90
    The BDP-S300 is $439

    This is with another three months to go before the holidays! Prices
    will not be a factor when people bother to look at what's
    available...and they will. Fox, Disney and Sony will all have either
    endcaps or big signs in stores with Die Hard 4, Silver Surfer, Spider-
    man 3, Ratatouille and Pirates of the Caribbean 3 all being solely
    available on Blu-ray and Warner will have similar cutouts to the ones
    they had for "300" where both HD DVD and Blu-ray are prominently
    advertised. Transformers and Bourne just won't cut it against all this
    exposure people will be getting to Blu-ray.

    Aside from that, this Christmas is when J6P will be picking up an
    HDTV, not picking up a high definition player.
     
    ninphan, Sep 20, 2007
    #19
  20. ninphan wrote:
    >
    > Aside from that, this Christmas is when J6P will be picking up an
    > HDTV, not picking up a high definition player.


    Exactly:
    J6P and Smuggy F. Warwhiner (the cynical evil brother of J6P, who prides
    himself on his initials) both say "Who cares about the next disk,
    there're only 35 sets out there anyway!"
    But this is a special case as from 90's DVD, as the public now has to be
    sold TWO new gizmos at once that they've previously not been acquainted
    with, and in sequence--The horse has to come before the cart, and the
    screen has to come before the player.

    And grownups may buy new toys every Christmas-sales rush, but when those
    toys start in the $700's, they usually buy ONE toy.
    And it's more likely to be the more Best Buy demonstratable one that
    shows football games you *don't* have to replace libraries for, which
    they imagine will alone be enough of a cable headache (aside from the
    fact that they now think they have to spring for the DirecTV satellite
    service that BB keeps throwing at them)...And that's leaving aside all
    those misread panic headlines, where somebody in the paper told them
    their old TV set now has only a year to live.

    And why is a Q4'07 boom in set sales important (apart from making
    production more mainstream and lowering the price)?...It starts the
    addiction.
    Which means J6P will *stop* asking "Why do we need hi-def disks?" (as he
    can now turn on ABC for free and get an answer every night), haul off
    and slap SFW in the head, and start reading up his homework for next
    season's toy....Ah, sweet war-recruitment drive. ^_^

    (One recent HDTV sales-promo doc that's been airing compared "invisible"
    present-day network HDTV broadcast saturation to Walt Disney and Bonanza
    selling color TV sets in the 60's--
    And as one who can remember the first time he got to watch Wizard of Oz
    on the family's first new color TV set as a kid, those comparisons are
    so on the mark as to be scary.) 0_0''

    Derek Janssen
     
    Derek Janssen, Sep 20, 2007
    #20
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