DVD ROT EXPLAINED...

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Philip Traum, Dec 2, 2003.

  1. Philip Traum

    Philip Traum Guest

    After hearing the stories here about people having the same early DVDs
    that I do, and claim that there is discoloration or visible defects now
    in their DVDs that mine do not have over the same period of time, I
    figured out the problem.

    A friend of mine bought a few of the same DVDs that I did when I bought
    mine. His have the same problems, none of mine do, we bought them
    from the same store at the same time.

    So, why do some of you have this problem and I don't?

    It all has to do with how you take them out of the cases. Many of
    you (including my friend) will actually physically BEND the DVD when it
    does not easily come off of that center holder until you force it to
    come flying off! This constant BENDING of the DVD is what is causing
    the glue holding the two layers of the disc together to stress out and
    give way. I am careful to make sure I NEVER bend the disc, and
    instead carefully force the center of the case to allow the disc to come
    lose, rather than taking it out on the disc. Then I file down the
    center or break it so that I will never have trouble getting the disc
    out ever again. Some cases are horrible designs, while others just
    pop the disc out when you press the center.

    Perhaps if you note that your "disc rot" problems are on the DVDs in
    which are harder to get out of the cases, and your DVDs in which come
    out very easy from the cases don't have any "disc rot" you will see that
    I am right. Also take more notice of how you are actually physically
    bending the disc when you try to remove it like I see so many people do.

    It is only obvious that bending the DVD is going to stress out the glue
    holding the layers together and end up with the mess you have.
    Eventually, the two layers are going to separate completely if you don't
    treat your DVDs with more care.
     
    Philip Traum, Dec 2, 2003
    #1
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  2. Philip Traum

    Nic Guest

    "Philip Traum" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > After hearing the stories here about people having the same early DVDs
    > that I do, and claim that there is discoloration or visible defects now
    > in their DVDs that mine do not have over the same period of time, I
    > figured out the problem.
    >
    > A friend of mine bought a few of the same DVDs that I did when I bought
    > mine. His have the same problems, none of mine do, we bought them
    > from the same store at the same time.
    >
    > So, why do some of you have this problem and I don't?
    >
    > It all has to do with how you take them out of the cases. Many of
    > you (including my friend) will actually physically BEND the DVD when it
    > does not easily come off of that center holder until you force it to
    > come flying off! This constant BENDING of the DVD is what is causing
    > the glue holding the two layers of the disc together to stress out and
    > give way. I am careful to make sure I NEVER bend the disc, and
    > instead carefully force the center of the case to allow the disc to come
    > lose, rather than taking it out on the disc. Then I file down the
    > center or break it so that I will never have trouble getting the disc
    > out ever again. Some cases are horrible designs, while others just
    > pop the disc out when you press the center.
    >
    > Perhaps if you note that your "disc rot" problems are on the DVDs in
    > which are harder to get out of the cases, and your DVDs in which come
    > out very easy from the cases don't have any "disc rot" you will see that
    > I am right. Also take more notice of how you are actually physically
    > bending the disc when you try to remove it like I see so many people do.
    >
    > It is only obvious that bending the DVD is going to stress out the glue
    > holding the layers together and end up with the mess you have.
    > Eventually, the two layers are going to separate completely if you don't
    > treat your DVDs with more care.



    I don't bend discs and have one disc that had rotted. It is bad
    manufacturing not bending. I even replace crap cases with better ones (plus
    replace cardboard digipacks).


    ---
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    Nic, Dec 2, 2003
    #2
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  3. Philip Traum

    Mark W Guest

    "Philip Traum" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > After hearing the stories here about people having the same early DVDs
    > that I do, and claim that there is discoloration or visible defects now
    > in their DVDs that mine do not have over the same period of time, I
    > figured out the problem.
    >
    > A friend of mine bought a few of the same DVDs that I did when I bought
    > mine. His have the same problems, none of mine do, we bought them
    > from the same store at the same time.
    >
    > So, why do some of you have this problem and I don't?
    >
    > It all has to do with how you take them out of the cases.



    What the hell? You mean you take them out and watch them??

    The only way to stop the rot is to leave the disc where it belongs, in the
    case, preferably shrink wrapped.

    The satisfaction of owning a movie far outweighs the fleeting pleasure of
    watching it, I can assure you.



    PS is it only me that buys DVDs and never gets round to watching them???
     
    Mark W, Dec 2, 2003
    #3
  4. Philip Traum

    Justin Guest

    Mark W wrote on [Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:44:10 -0000]:
    >
    >
    > PS is it only me that buys DVDs and never gets round to watching them???


    No.... but we do take the shrinkwrap off them, unlike some friends we
    have
     
    Justin, Dec 2, 2003
    #4
  5. Philip Traum

    Codswallop Guest

    On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:58:48 GMT, Justin wrote in alt.video.dvd:

    >> PS is it only me that buys DVDs and never gets round to watching
    >> them???

    >
    > No.... but we do take the shrinkwrap off them, unlike some friends we
    > have


    We only take the shrinkwrap off when we get around to watching the DVD,
    just in case we change our mind and decide it was a dumb idea buying
    that particular DVD (we've never sold any ;).

    --
    - Cods


    (un ROT-13 to email)
     
    Codswallop, Dec 2, 2003
    #5
  6. Philip Traum

    Scot Gardner Guest

    "Philip Traum" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    <<It all has to do with how you take them out of the cases. Many of you
    (including my friend) will actually physically BEND the DVD when it does
    not easily come off of that center holder until you force it to
    come flying off! This constant BENDING of the DVD is what is causing the
    glue holding the two layers of the disc together to stress out and give
    way.>>

    Your "bending" theory sounds good. However, it doesn't explain why the
    vast majority of rotted DVD titles were pressed by Warner. I agree,
    there have been some DVD cases which have required that the DVD be
    literally pried from the center hub in order to get it out. Still, if
    carefully done, an extremely-difficult DVD extraction can be done
    without any severe bending of the disk.

    <<I am careful to make sure I NEVER bend the disc, and instead carefully
    force the center of the case to allow the disc to come lose, rather than
    taking it out on the disc. Then I file down the center or break it so
    that I will never have trouble getting the disc out ever again. Some
    cases are horrible designs, while others just pop the disc out when you
    press the center.>>

    I agree, some DVD cases are an abomination. None of my DVDs, with the
    exception of a few secondary-disks with extra features, is ever returned
    to the original case. Nearly all of my DVDs find a permanent home in
    "slim" CD jewell cases, and 4 of them can be stored in an inch of shelf
    space.

    Here is a more-logical DVD Rot explanation:

    Those in this newsgroup who have not yet experienced DVD rot remain
    skeptical and discourage any discussion of this subject. I have been
    dealing with DVD rot since I first posted my experience with_Cabaret_in
    December, 1999. It was inevitable that as the proliferation of DVD
    players increased, more and more people would discover that they have
    rotted DVDs in their collections.

    First, let's not confuse Laser Rot with DVD rot:

    LaserDiscs are subject to what's commonly called Laser Rot: the
    deterioration of the aluminum layer due to oxidation or other chemical
    change. This often results from the use of insufficiently pure aluminum
    during replication, but can be exacerbated by mechanical shear stress
    due to bending, warping or thermal cycles (the large size of LaserDiscs
    makes them flexible, so that movement along the bond between layers can
    break the seal). Deterioration of the data layer can be caused by
    chemical contaminants or gasses in the glue, or by moisture that
    penetrates the acrylic substrates.

    Like LaserDiscs, DVDs are made of two platters glued together, but DVDs
    are more rigid and use newer adhesives. DVDs are molded from
    polycarbonate, which absorbs about ten times less moisture than the
    slightly hygroscopic acrylic (PMMA) used for LaserDiscs.

    It's too early to know for sure, but DVDs will probably have few laser
    rot problems. There have been reports of a few discs going bad, possibly
    due to poor adhesive, chemical reactions, or oxidation of the aluminum
    layer.

    http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#1.24

    So far, it appears that the DVD rot problem affects only the second
    layer of RSDL (Reverse Spiral Dual Layer) and possibly some DL (Dual
    Layer) disks and that, before the layer change triggers the transition
    of the optical assembly to focus the laser on the second layer, there is
    no breakup in the picture. But, once the layer change occurs, the
    momentary freezing, blocking and color blotching begins. I have noted
    that as the disks absorb the residual heat from my player, the problems
    intensify. I am still exploring this heat-related theory: Heat causes
    expansion. Therefore, could it be that the second layer of some WAMO
    RSDL disks expands separately from the first layer causing the data
    spiral to become out of round?

    This peculiar ailment -- most often found on the second layer of Warner
    DVDs (WAMO produced RSDL and possibly some DL) disks) -- has been called
    disk rot by some. So far, I have lost 5 Warner RSDL titles to this
    ailment (_Cabaret_, _Casablanca_, _The Maltese Falcon_, _
    Devil's Advocate_ and _My Fair Lady_, however, none of the replacement
    disks has rotted, yet.

    On Nov. 7, 2000 Mr. Moody posted the best theory that I have heard on
    the subject of DVD rot under the subject header: "Re: YES!!! Some screen
    caputres from my Pioneer DV-525"

    The pictures of the rotted discs at
    http://www.mindspring.com/~yerington/
    strongly remind me of stress cracks in acrylic. Has anyone ever seen
    what happens to a sheet of acrylic which is subjected to continuous
    flexing & vibration? It develops numerous short, tiny cracks in the
    plastic in the area of greatest stress.

    Combine this with Scot's heat observations, and I think what is
    happening is that multiple heat cycles are stressing and cracking the
    glue holding the layers together. WAMO had/has some defective glue that
    is either too brittle or has the wrong heat expansion index (ie
    different from the polycarbonate layer) and slowly develops microscopic
    cracks as it is repeatedly heated and cooled.

    ### (My heat observations are posted below.)

    This could explain why some people have several discs with this problem
    while others have none. Personally, _The Matrix_ is the only disc
    mentioned which I have played more than 2-3 times.

    This would mean that, unlike LD, DVD rotters will never rot on the
    shelf, but only after they are played enough times. This is also
    horrifying to think that maybe most or all of us own discs with limited
    plays in them and don't know it.

    ***

    Therefore, the un-played defective disks can sit dormant on a warehouse
    shelf and still deliver a honeymoon-fresh initial picture when they are
    sold months or even years later. If Mr. Moody's theory is correct, it
    would mean that it is the heat and centrifugal force of the playback
    process that is combining to tear apart and/or alter the second layer of
    the disk. He may be on to something here because it is at the outer
    edge of the disk, where the layer change occurs, that the centrifugal
    force is the strongest.

    ### Please check your copy of My Fair Lady. Mine has a totally rotted
    second layer. Here are the numbers (some of them printed backward)
    from the play side of this totally ruined disk:

    WAMO VB01

    16668V2

    IFPI L906

    M1S4

    The layer change occurs at 1:41:49 right after the intermission and at
    the start of chapter 31. The first symptoms of rot were audio dropouts
    followed by slight pixelation, then the disk began to freeze slightly
    before jumping back to the beginning of the layer change. This was after
    playing the disk completely cold out of the box.

    The disk warmed up after playing for 10 minutes and the momentary
    freezing, blocking and color blotching became worse and worse. Then the
    disk began to hang up about three minutes into chapter 31 and then the
    player refused to go any further on its own. I could manually jump
    through to chapter 35, but the playback problems become even worse to
    the point that the disk became unplayable. The entire second layer of
    this disk is completely rotted!

    This heat theory might go a long way in explaining why a disk that has
    rotted performs flawlessly, when you later play only the bad part in
    another machine, before allowing it to warm up.
     
    Scot Gardner, Dec 3, 2003
    #6
  7. Ive got tons I havn't watched!
    "Codswallop" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns944665971C5B5codswallopcom@139.132.1.4...
    > On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:58:48 GMT, Justin wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    >
    > >> PS is it only me that buys DVDs and never gets round to watching
    > >> them???

    > >
    > > No.... but we do take the shrinkwrap off them, unlike some friends we
    > > have

    >
    > We only take the shrinkwrap off when we get around to watching the DVD,
    > just in case we change our mind and decide it was a dumb idea buying
    > that particular DVD (we've never sold any ;).
    >
    > --
    > - Cods
    >
    >
    > (un ROT-13 to email)
     
    Glenn \(SBfan2000\), Dec 3, 2003
    #7
  8. Philip Traum

    Rohan Byrnes Guest

    Hi Philip,

    This is a repost of an article I posted up a couple of days back under another
    thread. It's quite long, but I hope you find it of interest.

    Begin repost --->

    Firstly, the term "DVD rot". This term is a bit of a misnomer. DVD discs do
    not actually "rot", although in some rare cases it does appear that they can
    deteriorate to the point of unplayability. "Rot" actually means to "decay as a
    result of bacterial or fungal action" and there is no evidence to suggest any
    involvement of bacterial or fungal action in the deterioration of a DVD.

    Secondly, the term "DVD rot" is used to describe several completely different
    types of manufacturing problems. These problems include - "clouding" or
    "ghosting"; delamination (layer separation) and corrosion. I stress again that
    these are three completely seperate problems with completely seperate
    mechanisms.

    "Clouding" or "ghosting" is the result of inadequate cooling of the moulded
    polycarbonate substrate during manufacture. The result is 'smearing' of the
    pit structure when the substrate is removed from the mould. Microscopic
    smearing of the pits manifests itself as a stain on the disc surface which can
    be seen under reflected light. In the optical disc industry this staining is
    referred to as 'smearing', 'clouding', 'sticking' or 'ghosting' and can happen
    with CDs as well as DVDs. Visible disc staining, although unsightly, *rarely*
    affects playback of the content.

    Delamination or layer seperation. This can happen in one of two ways. The
    first most obvious way is through excessive force placed on the centre hub of
    the disc. This can be due to heavy handed users, or poorly designed cases that
    require more force than normal to remove the disc (or a combination of the
    two). The result is excessive bending/flexing of the disc which can crack the
    inner hub and, in the worst case, effectively pull the two layers apart. The
    second way delamination can occur is if the adhesive layer is not cured to the
    full bonding strength during manufacture. The resulting disc will be
    mechanically weak and may 'self-delaminate' slowly over time (under normal
    loading conditions).

    Delamination manifests itself as a dark "stain" around the inner hub, or in
    the case of a severe delamination, a series of light and dark rings like "tree
    rings". These visible markings are frequently described as a "coffee stain"
    and frequently mistaken for "rot" - but they are neither. They are actually
    interference rings, sometimes also referred to as Newton's rings and are the
    result of constructive and destructive interference of reflected light as it
    passes through the air gap that is now present between the two layers.
    Finally, delamination of a DVD has the effect of rendering both layers of the
    disc unreadable and is therefore catastrophic.

    Then there is corrosion. Corrosion of a DVD can happen in one of two ways.
    Firstly, corrodants (moisture, oxygen) can enter a disc at the outside edge if
    the disc edge is poorly sealed during manufacture. The second way corrosion
    can occur is much more mysterious, still not fully understood and seems to
    only affect dual layer discs. This second type of corrosion occurs on a
    microscopic level and appears to be the result of a rate controlled chemical
    reaction between the bonding adhesive itself and the reflective aluminium
    coating of the second layer. The reflective coating of the first layer is
    usually gold or silicon, which are both chemically inert and will therefore
    not react or corrode. The end result in time is a disc in which content on the
    first layer continues to playback perfectly, while content on the second layer
    is corrupted. It should also be noted that since the reaction occurs on a
    microscopic level, outwardly to the human eye the disc will appear to be in
    perfect condition.

    Available information tends to suggest that this second type of corrosion can
    occur when there is a chemical imbalance in the bonding adhesive during
    manufacture. However, if it was as simple as that the problem would also occur
    in single layer discs as they use the same bonding adhesives and aluminium for
    the reflective layer. So what is different about dual layer discs that makes
    them susceptible to this type of reaction, while single layer discs are
    seemingly not affected? The answer could be in the presence of the gold. I
    have read at least one optical industry paper which alluded to the potential
    for a "battery effect" to occur between the gold and the aluminium. The paper
    indicated that under certain conditions the adhesive itself could act as a
    "leading wire" effectively providing electrical contact between the gold and
    the aluminium, resulting in accelerated oxidation of the aluminium.

    Just as a final comment I would like to address the issue of the extent of
    these problems. Unfortunately, there is no hard evidence to go by. However,
    taking into consideration the *millions* of discs manufactured each year
    around the world and the anecdotal evidence available, I would suggest that
    the percentage of discs affected is probably less than 0.01% - and mainly in
    discs manufactured in the 1998 to 2000 timeframe (manufacturing processes have
    improved considerably since then). Figures suggesting that 10% of discs are
    affected appear to be coming from the rental industry whose cliental are
    notoriously abusive of the media they handle.

    Best wishes,

    Rohan.
     
    Rohan Byrnes, Dec 3, 2003
    #8
  9. Philip Traum

    Bill Guest

    Same here...it's an old family tradition, I guess. My father used to get
    Reader's Digest condensed books and not even take some of them out of their
    protective cardboard container...at least I do remove the shrinkwrap from
    all of my DVDs. : )

    "Glenn (SBfan2000)" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Ive got tons I havn't watched!
    > "Codswallop" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns944665971C5B5codswallopcom@139.132.1.4...
    > > On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:58:48 GMT, Justin wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    > >
    > > >> PS is it only me that buys DVDs and never gets round to watching
    > > >> them???
    > > >
    > > > No.... but we do take the shrinkwrap off them, unlike some friends we
    > > > have

    > >
    > > We only take the shrinkwrap off when we get around to watching the DVD,
    > > just in case we change our mind and decide it was a dumb idea buying
    > > that particular DVD (we've never sold any ;).
    > >
    > > --
    > > - Cods
    > >
    > >
    > > (un ROT-13 to email)

    >
    >
     
    Bill, Dec 3, 2003
    #9
  10. Philip Traum

    Stan Brown Guest

    In article <20031202220322.143$> in
    alt.video.dvd, Scot Gardner <> wrote:
    > So far, I have lost 5 Warner RSDL titles to this
    >ailment (_Cabaret_, _Casablanca_, _The Maltese Falcon_, _
    >Devil's Advocate_ and _My Fair Lady_, however, none of the replacement
    >disks has rotted, yet.


    How did you obtain these "replacement discs"? Does Warner replace
    them when you report the problem?

    I've got early /Casablanca/ and /Maltese Falcon/ and have been
    waiting nervously.

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com
    DVD FAQ: http://dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html
    other FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/faqget.htm
     
    Stan Brown, Dec 3, 2003
    #10
  11. Philip Traum

    Scot Gardner Guest

    "Stan Brown" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <20031202220322.143$> in
    > alt.video.dvd, Scot Gardner <> wrote:
    > > So far, I have lost 5 Warner RSDL titles to this
    > >ailment (_Cabaret_, _Casablanca_, _The Maltese Falcon_,
    > >_Devil's Advocate_ and _My Fair Lady_, however, none of the
    > >replacement disks has rotted, yet.

    >
    > How did you obtain these "replacement discs"? Does Warner replace
    > them when you report the problem?
    >
    > I've got early /Casablanca/ and /Maltese Falcon/ and have been
    > waiting nervously.


    I was able to exchange _Cabaret_ and ended up having to buy the other
    titles again. In the case of _Casablanca_, I wish that I had known about
    the new, double-disk version, because the original _Casablanca_ had the
    entire movie on the first layer. Only the special features are located
    on the second, rotted layer.

    (On some dual-layer Warner titles, the blue Warner splash screen is
    located on the second layer, and if this layer is sufficiently rotted,
    the disk won't play. A workaround might be to press STOP before the disk
    begins to play, then press MENU and select the first chapter from the
    chapter list. This might bypass the rotted second layer. However, if
    part of the movie is contained on the second layer, you're screwed.)

    As for _Devil's Advocate_, I bought the edited version long before the
    original "Ex Nihilo" version finally rotted sometime during the summer
    of 2003.

    You might as well get the new, double-disk _Casablanca_, because the
    picture and sound are a LOT better than the first edition. If you have
    the original MGM version, be sure keep the included "collectible 8-page
    booklet featuring trivia, production notes and a revealing look at the
    making of the film."

    Here is a comparison of the two versions of _Casablanca_:

    All of the grain and edge enhancement present in the first DVD has been
    removed. The new DVD isn't as bright as the previous one, so the whites
    aren't as glaring and the contrast isn't as harsh. I consider these
    changes to be great improvements, but some people object to what they
    call "a lack of film-like quality." These same people didn't think much
    of _Sunset Blvd._. _Citizen Kane_, or the new _All About Eve_ because --
    even though they too were crystal clear -- these movies also lack a
    so-called film-like quality. Chances are that if you liked the look of
    these 3 other titles, you will like the new _Casablanca_.

    The biggest difference between the two _Casablanca_ DVDs is in the
    opening credits where the new DVD zooms in and shows only about 90% of
    the picture information present on the previous DVD, with most of the
    missing picture information being taken from right side and bottom. Once
    the credits end, there is still approximately 5% more over-scan in the
    new DVD, with most of the missing picture information being taken from
    the top.

    The Lauren Bacall documentary "You Must Remember This" has been
    modified: The first two minutes have been removed from the main
    featurette and can now be seen at the beginning of the movie on the new
    version.

    Overall, the new version is a much better presentation than the previous
    one. The commentaries are great and the supplementary material is a well
    worth seeing.
     
    Scot Gardner, Dec 3, 2003
    #11
  12. Philip Traum

    Philip Traum Guest

    > <<It all has to do with how you take them out of the cases. Many of you
    > (including my friend) will actually physically BEND the DVD when it does
    > not easily come off of that center holder until you force it to
    > come flying off! This constant BENDING of the DVD is what is causing the
    > glue holding the two layers of the disc together to stress out and give
    > way.>>
    >
    > Your "bending" theory sounds good. However, it doesn't explain why the
    > vast majority of rotted DVD titles were pressed by Warner.


    Perhaps they use more of the cases where it is harder to take the DVD out.

    I like the way you say this....

    > Here is a more-logical DVD Rot explanation:


    Then just confirm my explanation....

    > The pictures of the rotted discs at
    > http://www.mindspring.com/~yerington/
    > strongly remind me of stress cracks in acrylic. Has anyone ever seen
    > what happens to a sheet of acrylic which is subjected to continuous
    > flexing & vibration? It develops numerous short, tiny cracks in the
    > plastic in the area of greatest stress.


    Yes, this is EXACTLY what I say, so how is it a "more-logical" explanation?
     
    Philip Traum, Dec 3, 2003
    #12
  13. Philip Traum

    Philip Traum Guest

    > Delamination or layer seperation. This can happen in one of two ways. The
    > first most obvious way is through excessive force placed on the centre hub of
    > the disc. This can be due to heavy handed users, or poorly designed cases that
    > require more force than normal to remove the disc (or a combination of the
    > two). The result is excessive bending/flexing of the disc which can crack the
    > inner hub and, in the worst case, effectively pull the two layers apart.


    EXACTLY. This is why people who take care not to bend their DVDs do not have
    any of these problems, while the gorillas and apes out there are the only ones
    that have the problem.

    This is just like those idiots that need and buy CD cleaners. How does a CD get
    dirty?? The very first CDs that I bought back in 1983 when they first came out
    still don't require any cleaning!
     
    Philip Traum, Dec 3, 2003
    #13
  14. Philip Traum

    Cernovog Guest

    On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:34:01 -0500, Philip Traum wrote
    (in message <>):

    > This is just like those idiots that need and buy CD cleaners.
    > How does a CD get dirty??
    > The very first CDs that I bought back in 1983 when they first
    > came out still don't require any cleaning!
    >

    This always mystified me. I'd see all these cleaning kits in the stores
    and wondered why I never had use for one. I've had plenty of use for audio
    cassette head cleaners and DVD head cleaners. I figured I'd eventually need a
    CD cleaner, but, in retrospect, it's obvious that they're not the same thing.

    CDs need cleaning due to mishandling? I never gave it much thought, but
    it's a good explanation.
     
    Cernovog, Dec 5, 2003
    #14
  15. Philip Traum

    Black Locust Guest

    In article <>,
    Cernovog <> wrote:

    > This always mystified me. I'd see all these cleaning kits in the stores
    > and wondered why I never had use for one. I've had plenty of use for audio
    > cassette head cleaners and DVD head cleaners.


    DVD lens cleaner. There's no "head" in a DVD player. :)

    > CDs need cleaning due to mishandling? I never gave it much thought, but
    > it's a good explanation.


    Picture Joe Sixpack on his couch with a big bag of extra buttery
    microwave popcorn. He then goes to pick up his Lynyrd Skynyrd CD that he
    has had lying on the carpet(that hasn't been vacuumed in over 10 years)
    in the corner of his trailer out of it's jewel case. He then carelessly
    picks up the CD by it's play surface with those same buttery popcorn
    fingers because Joe Sixpack has no idea how a CD works. Now what kind of
    condition do you expect the CD to be in after all this? Think it'll play
    fine without a good cleaning? And thus a whole market for silly
    overpriced disc cleaners is born.

    BTW, those CD cleaners are a big waste of money. A clean damp t-shirt
    works just fine.
    --
    BL
     
    Black Locust, Dec 5, 2003
    #15
  16. On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 20:59:48 -0600, Black Locust <>
    wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > Cernovog <> wrote:
    >
    >> This always mystified me. I'd see all these cleaning kits in the stores
    >> and wondered why I never had use for one. I've had plenty of use for audio
    >> cassette head cleaners and DVD head cleaners.

    >
    >DVD lens cleaner. There's no "head" in a DVD player. :)
    >
    >> CDs need cleaning due to mishandling? I never gave it much thought, but
    >> it's a good explanation.

    >
    >Picture Joe Sixpack on his couch with a big bag of extra buttery
    >microwave popcorn. He then goes to pick up his Lynyrd Skynyrd CD that he
    >has had lying on the carpet(that hasn't been vacuumed in over 10 years)
    >in the corner of his trailer out of it's jewel case. He then carelessly
    >picks up the CD by it's play surface with those same buttery popcorn
    >fingers because Joe Sixpack has no idea how a CD works. Now what kind of
    >condition do you expect the CD to be in after all this? Think it'll play
    >fine without a good cleaning? And thus a whole market for silly
    >overpriced disc cleaners is born.
    >
    >BTW, those CD cleaners are a big waste of money. A clean damp t-shirt
    >works just fine.



    I just discovered yesterday that some CD's that had been stored in a
    corner for a long time had been peed on by a cat, probably when one
    had been sick a few years ago. The cases had rotted through but the
    CD's inside were recoverable using WD40. (I don't want to talk abut
    the inserts...) Yup, it doesn't matter who you are or how careful,
    accidents happen. And these were all early 1980's pressings.

    .Steve .
     
    Steve(JazzHunter), Dec 5, 2003
    #16
  17. Philip Traum

    ML-78 Guest

    > > Your "bending" theory sounds good. However, it doesn't explain why the
    > > vast majority of rotted DVD titles were pressed by Warner.

    >
    > Perhaps they use more of the cases where it is harder to take the DVD out.


    No - the problem was the manufacturing. It happened to DVD's from other labels
    that had Warner press their DVD's as well. If anything Warner's snapper cases
    are easier to take the DVD out of.

    > I like the way you say this....
    >
    > > Here is a more-logical DVD Rot explanation:

    >
    > Then just confirm my explanation....


    He didn't confirm your explanation.

    > > The pictures of the rotted discs at
    > > http://www.mindspring.com/~yerington/
    > > strongly remind me of stress cracks in acrylic. Has anyone ever seen
    > > what happens to a sheet of acrylic which is subjected to continuous
    > > flexing & vibration? It develops numerous short, tiny cracks in the
    > > plastic in the area of greatest stress.

    >
    > Yes, this is EXACTLY what I say, so how is it a "more-logical" explanation?


    That's not what you say. You talked about bending. While repeated bending would
    cause exactly the same kind of "rot", the problem is still materials (how
    brittle the adhesive is) and manufacturing (the size and number of cracks and
    defects). What causes the failure is most likely the cyclic thermal stressing
    that happens each time the disc is heated up and cooled down again.


    ML-78
     
    ML-78, Dec 5, 2003
    #17
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