DVD menu design

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Steve, May 17, 2004.

  1. Steve

    Steve Guest

    Ran across this a while back, thought about it again in response to
    another thread about forced previews on DVDs -

    Excerpts from Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox 12/9/01, by Dr. Donald A.
    Norman:

    Summary: The DVD menu structure is getting more baroque, less usable,
    less pleasurable, less effective. It is time to take DVD design as
    seriously as we do web design. The field needs some discipline, some
    attention to the user experience, and some standardization of control
    and display formats.

    As DVD releases became more and more popular, the visual designers
    took control. Now we have fancy, animated, complex menus. Moreover,
    the entrance and exits from the menu are now becoming elaborate
    productions, so the second or so it would take the DVD to find the new
    section is amplified by the several seconds of movie or animation
    excerpts, with sound. Slow is better, seems to be the rule,
    contradicting a fundamental principle of good user experience.

    The menus themselves suffer badly from lack of standardization. Many
    DVDs are inconsistent, in some sections working one way, in others
    working another way.

    There is no reason that the main menu page couldn't show the audio,
    video, language, and subscript settings, so the user wouldn't have to
    go to the pages and check them just to make sure they are what is
    wanted.

    Provide more information. Why not state the duration of each item in
    the Special Menus, with a brief description, instead of the often
    cryptic titles...

    http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20011209.html
     
    Steve, May 17, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Steve

    JWB Guest

    "Steve" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Ran across this a while back, thought about it again in response to
    > another thread about forced previews on DVDs -
    >
    > Excerpts from Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox 12/9/01, by Dr. Donald A.
    > Norman:
    >
    > Summary: The DVD menu structure is getting more baroque, less usable,
    > less pleasurable, less effective. It is time to take DVD design as
    > seriously as we do web design. The field needs some discipline, some
    > attention to the user experience, and some standardization of control
    > and display formats.
    >
    > As DVD releases became more and more popular, the visual designers
    > took control. Now we have fancy, animated, complex menus. Moreover,
    > the entrance and exits from the menu are now becoming elaborate
    > productions, so the second or so it would take the DVD to find the new
    > section is amplified by the several seconds of movie or animation
    > excerpts, with sound. Slow is better, seems to be the rule,
    > contradicting a fundamental principle of good user experience.
    >
    > The menus themselves suffer badly from lack of standardization. Many
    > DVDs are inconsistent, in some sections working one way, in others
    > working another way.
    >
    > There is no reason that the main menu page couldn't show the audio,
    > video, language, and subscript settings, so the user wouldn't have to
    > go to the pages and check them just to make sure they are what is
    > wanted.
    >
    > Provide more information. Why not state the duration of each item in
    > the Special Menus, with a brief description, instead of the often
    > cryptic titles...
    >
    > http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20011209.html


    For what it's worth, I *hate* that stuff.
    Just give me a list of options and be able to choose them without all the
    fanfare.
     
    JWB, May 17, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Steve

    SpammersDie Guest

    "Steve" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Ran across this a while back, thought about it again in response to
    > another thread about forced previews on DVDs -
    >
    > Excerpts from Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox 12/9/01, by Dr. Donald A.
    > Norman:
    >
    >
    > http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20011209.html


    I'd like to add an eighth item to that list:

    8. I'm the manager of my home theater. I decide when the movie starts. Not
    the DVD.

    I'm talking about how some DVD's "helpfully" autostart the movie if you stay
    on the main menu without doing anything for a couple of minutes.

    Uh, thanks but no thanks. My remote has a perfectly servicable "select"
    button and I'll tell you when to start playing. The fact that I loaded the
    disc into the player five minutes ago and haven't touched the controls since
    doesn't mean I can't figure out how to play the movie. It means I preloaded
    the disc so you could get your five minutes of useless intro animation out
    of the way while I'm getting the popcorn out of the microwave and getting
    comfy on the sofa.
     
    SpammersDie, May 17, 2004
    #3
  4. Steve

    Biz Guest

    "SpammersDie" <> wrote in message
    news:sU9qc.16691$...
    >
    > "Steve" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Ran across this a while back, thought about it again in response to
    > > another thread about forced previews on DVDs -
    > >
    > > Excerpts from Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox 12/9/01, by Dr. Donald A.
    > > Norman:
    > >
    > >
    > > http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20011209.html

    >
    > I'd like to add an eighth item to that list:
    >
    > 8. I'm the manager of my home theater. I decide when the movie starts. Not
    > the DVD.
    >
    > I'm talking about how some DVD's "helpfully" autostart the movie if you

    stay
    > on the main menu without doing anything for a couple of minutes.
    >
    > Uh, thanks but no thanks. My remote has a perfectly servicable "select"
    > button and I'll tell you when to start playing. The fact that I loaded the
    > disc into the player five minutes ago and haven't touched the controls

    since
    > doesn't mean I can't figure out how to play the movie. It means I

    preloaded
    > the disc so you could get your five minutes of useless intro animation out
    > of the way while I'm getting the popcorn out of the microwave and getting
    > comfy on the sofa.
    >

    One valid reason to have it start after a certain amount of time is to help
    prevent burn-in for the consumers with plasma, LCD, etc.. tvs that are
    susceptible to burn-in. If its too much effort for you to just restart teh
    movie, then I guess we could have ALL discs ask a question when you insert
    them asking if you have a display prone to burn-in? That way you would have
    something more to complain about as well.
     
    Biz, May 17, 2004
    #4
  5. Steve

    Dan P. Guest

    "SpammersDie" <> wrote in message
    news:sU9qc.16691$...
    >
    > "Steve" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Ran across this a while back, thought about it again in response to
    > > another thread about forced previews on DVDs -
    > >
    > > Excerpts from Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox 12/9/01, by Dr. Donald A.
    > > Norman:
    > >
    > >
    > > http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20011209.html

    >
    > I'd like to add an eighth item to that list:
    >
    > 8. I'm the manager of my home theater. I decide when the movie starts. Not
    > the DVD.
    >
    > I'm talking about how some DVD's "helpfully" autostart the movie if you

    stay
    > on the main menu without doing anything for a couple of minutes.
    >
    > Uh, thanks but no thanks. My remote has a perfectly servicable "select"
    > button and I'll tell you when to start playing. The fact that I loaded the
    > disc into the player five minutes ago and haven't touched the controls

    since
    > doesn't mean I can't figure out how to play the movie. It means I

    preloaded
    > the disc so you could get your five minutes of useless intro animation out
    > of the way while I'm getting the popcorn out of the microwave and getting
    > comfy on the sofa.
    >



    I can see your point, but reversing a DVD to the beginning isn't exactly the
    chore it was back in VHS days. All you do is press the "previous chapter"
    button until you're back to Chapter 1. And if you need to get back to the
    menu, just press the menu button.



    Dan
     
    Dan P., May 17, 2004
    #5
  6. Steve

    Stan Brown Guest

    "Biz" <> wrote in misc.consumers:
    >One valid reason to have it start after a certain amount of time is to help
    >prevent burn-in for the consumers with plasma, LCD, etc.. tvs that are
    >susceptible to burn-in.


    The same thing could easily be accomplished by having the image fade
    if no menu selection is made in N minutes.

    And is burn-in really an issue if you leave one image on screen for
    say 15 minutes? 24 hours, maybe -- but somebody who can't get back
    to the TV within 24 hours after popping in a DVD has probably got
    much more weighty matters to worry about.

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems Cortland County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com
    You need any friends you can get. The only thing standing
    between you and a watery grave is your wits, and that's not
    my idea of adequate protection. -- /Beat the Devil/ (1954)
     
    Stan Brown, May 17, 2004
    #6
  7. Steve

    SpammersDie Guest

    "Biz" <> wrote in message
    news:Ohaqc.16772$...
    >
    > "SpammersDie" <> wrote in message
    > news:sU9qc.16691$...
    > >
    > > "Steve" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > Ran across this a while back, thought about it again in response to
    > > > another thread about forced previews on DVDs -
    > > >
    > > > Excerpts from Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox 12/9/01, by Dr. Donald A.
    > > > Norman:
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20011209.html

    > >
    > > I'd like to add an eighth item to that list:
    > >
    > > 8. I'm the manager of my home theater. I decide when the movie starts.

    Not
    > > the DVD.
    > >
    > > I'm talking about how some DVD's "helpfully" autostart the movie if you

    > stay
    > > on the main menu without doing anything for a couple of minutes.
    > >
    > > Uh, thanks but no thanks. My remote has a perfectly servicable "select"
    > > button and I'll tell you when to start playing. The fact that I loaded

    the
    > > disc into the player five minutes ago and haven't touched the controls

    > since
    > > doesn't mean I can't figure out how to play the movie. It means I

    > preloaded
    > > the disc so you could get your five minutes of useless intro animation

    out
    > > of the way while I'm getting the popcorn out of the microwave and

    getting
    > > comfy on the sofa.
    > >

    > One valid reason to have it start after a certain amount of time is to

    help
    > prevent burn-in for the consumers with plasma, LCD, etc.. tvs that are
    > susceptible to burn-in. If its too much effort for you to just restart

    teh
    > movie, then I guess we could have ALL discs ask a question when you insert
    > them asking if you have a display prone to burn-in? That way you would

    have
    > something more to complain about as well.


    My player has a perfectly servicable screensaver. For that matter, my TV
    also has a perfectly servicable off button.

    If their so worried about burn-in, a screensaver could also be built into
    the DVD if needed and it would give those graphic designers a better outlet
    for their creativity than those useless menu transitions.

    Autostarting the movie is a half-assed "solution" to a problem for which the
    computer industry has had a well-accepted solution for years.

    And as for your implication that I'm just too lazy to "restart the movie", I
    don't like being exposed to a scene in the middle of a movie before I've
    seen the stuff leading up to it - especially if it happens to be the moment
    that "reveals" an early movie surprise. I like to experience movies from the
    start to the end like the way they're intended. I guess that makes me lazy
    in your eyes.
     
    SpammersDie, May 17, 2004
    #7
  8. Stan Brown () writes:
    > "Biz" <> wrote in misc.consumers:
    >>One valid reason to have it start after a certain amount of time is to help
    >>prevent burn-in for the consumers with plasma, LCD, etc.. tvs that are
    >>susceptible to burn-in.

    >
    > The same thing could easily be accomplished by having the image fade
    > if no menu selection is made in N minutes.
    >
    > And is burn-in really an issue if you leave one image on screen for
    > say 15 minutes? 24 hours, maybe -- but somebody who can't get back
    > to the TV within 24 hours after popping in a DVD has probably got
    > much more weighty matters to worry about.
    >

    I once had a surplus monitor that did have burn in. It must have
    come out of some commercial application where one line (it was actually
    only a partial line) was always the same.

    But that does take a long time. And since the issue is "burn in" it's
    not merely a matter of leaving the monitor/tv set on, it's a matter of
    the same identical image being in the same identical place over a long time.
    So it's not going to happen if you leave one menu on for 24 hours, and
    then another menu for 24 hours a week later.

    My real cheap Malata DVD player has a built in screensaver. If I leave
    it on, without a movie playing, it kicks in after about ten minutes. This
    is my first and only player, and I assumed this was standard.

    Note that "burn in" was never a concept for the home user, until those
    pong games came along thirty years ago. I can't remember if it did actually
    cause burn-in, or if it was a mere concern. Remember, there were some fixed
    areas, that could conceivably burn the screen.

    Of course, screensavers are often not about saving the screen. They were
    there initially because of burn-in (real or perceived), but the best
    screensaver, next to turning off the monitor (which is what I do), would
    be something to blank the screen to blank, so nothing appears. But of course,
    screensavers have become a cool thing you leave running when you're computer
    is not doing anything, and rather than the primary thing being protecting
    the screen, it's about something you can actually watch. Even that Malata
    DVD player keeps something on the screen (admittedly somewhat useful so
    you know it's on), moving a logo around like the ball on that old pong game.

    Michael
     
    Michael Black, May 17, 2004
    #8
  9. Steve <> wrote:

    >Summary: The DVD menu structure is getting more baroque, less usable,
    >less pleasurable, less effective. It is time to take DVD design as
    >seriously as we do web design. The field needs some discipline, some
    >attention to the user experience, and some standardization of control
    >and display formats.
    >
    >As DVD releases became more and more popular, the visual designers
    >took control. Now we have fancy, animated, complex menus. Moreover,
    >the entrance and exits from the menu are now becoming elaborate
    >productions, so the second or so it would take the DVD to find the new
    >section is amplified by the several seconds of movie or animation
    >excerpts, with sound. Slow is better, seems to be the rule,
    >contradicting a fundamental principle of good user experience.
    >
    >The menus themselves suffer badly from lack of standardization. Many
    >DVDs are inconsistent, in some sections working one way, in others
    >working another way.



    While I agree in principle, you really should check out the Spooks Series 1 (UK)
    disc. The menu is structured as almost as a video game, where you play the role
    of a spy who has broken into an office. The usual menu items are disguised as
    ordinary objects on a desk.

    The first couple of times it's cute - after that it would be nice to use a
    standard menu.
     
    Clark W. Griswold, Jr., May 18, 2004
    #9
  10. Steve

    Dale Hicks Guest

    In article <sU9qc.16691$>,
    says...
    >
    > "Steve" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Ran across this a while back, thought about it again in response to
    > > another thread about forced previews on DVDs -
    > >
    > > Excerpts from Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox 12/9/01, by Dr. Donald A.
    > > Norman:
    > >
    > >
    > > http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20011209.html

    >
    > I'd like to add an eighth item to that list:
    >
    > 8. I'm the manager of my home theater. I decide when the movie starts. Not
    > the DVD.


    My routine is to pop the disc in, grab some drinks, use the restroom,
    etc. then come back to the player when (hopefully) it's through all the
    trailers and crap. If it's playing, I stop it before switching the TV
    over to the DVD input.

    9. If there are two options, it does no good to color one text line
    blue and one text line yellow. Somehow indicate which is the active
    line.

    --
    Cranial Crusader dgh 1138 at bell south point net
     
    Dale Hicks, May 18, 2004
    #10
  11. Steve

    Tarkus Guest

    On 5/17/2004 5:43:35 PM, Dale Hicks wrote:

    > 9. If there are two options, it does no good to color one text line
    > blue and one text line yellow. Somehow indicate which is the active
    > line.


    Thank you! That one always gets me.
    --
    "Klaatu borada nikto."

    Now playing: "Nazareth - I Don't Want To Go On Withou.."
     
    Tarkus, May 18, 2004
    #11
  12. Steve

    SpammersDie Guest

    "Dale Hicks" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <sU9qc.16691$>,
    > says...
    > >
    > > "Steve" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > Ran across this a while back, thought about it again in response to
    > > > another thread about forced previews on DVDs -
    > > >
    > > > Excerpts from Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox 12/9/01, by Dr. Donald A.
    > > > Norman:
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20011209.html

    > >
    > > I'd like to add an eighth item to that list:
    > >
    > > 8. I'm the manager of my home theater. I decide when the movie starts.

    Not
    > > the DVD.

    >
    > My routine is to pop the disc in, grab some drinks, use the restroom,
    > etc. then come back to the player when (hopefully) it's through all the
    > trailers and crap. If it's playing, I stop it before switching the TV
    > over to the DVD input.
    >
    > 9. If there are two options, it does no good to color one text line
    > blue and one text line yellow. Somehow indicate which is the active
    > line.



    10. (This one isn't "menu design" but it's still in the area of DVD UI...)
    "Bonus content" delivered in the form of "Did you know?" bubbles or "click
    me for trivia" icons that *occasionally* overlay the regular movie. So to
    read all the bonus content you paid for, you have to sit through a two hour
    movie you've already seen to extract what amounts to 10 minutes worth of
    actual bonus content. (Usually, the hotspots are only visible at normal
    speed too - so fast-forwarding won't help.)
     
    SpammersDie, May 18, 2004
    #12
  13. Steve

    Codswallop Guest

    On Tue, 18 May 2004 01:54:22 GMT, SpammersDie wrote in alt.video.dvd:

    > 10. (This one isn't "menu design" but it's still in the area of DVD
    > UI...) "Bonus content" delivered in the form of "Did you know?"
    > bubbles or "click me for trivia" icons that *occasionally* overlay the
    > regular movie.


    Personally, I enjoy that stuff (generally the subtitle overlays, the
    "click now" are annoying IMO). I can see how it'd be annoying to some
    so there should always be alternative means of getting the information.

    --
    - Cods
    (un ROT-13 to email)

    Welcome to KILLFILE, population: You.
     
    Codswallop, May 18, 2004
    #13
  14. Steve

    Mark Spatny Guest

    Steve, says...
    > As DVD releases became more and more popular, the visual designers
    > took control. Now we have fancy, animated, complex menus. Moreover,
    > the entrance and exits from the menu are now becoming elaborate
    > productions,


    This is consistent with what happened with CD-ROMs, when they first came
    out in the early 90's. It's all fine and dandy when you are playing a
    game, or edutainment title and your kindergartner wants to click around
    and watch pretty animated animals teach math. But when those same
    designers started applying cute design rules to reference titles on CD-
    ROM, they became unusable.

    I'd hate to see the same thing happen to DVDs. Choosing what to watch on
    a DVD shouldn't be any slower than deciding which track to listen to on
    an audio CD.
     
    Mark Spatny, May 18, 2004
    #14
  15. Steve

    Mark Spatny Guest

    SpammersDie, says...
    > "Bonus content" delivered in the form of "Did you know?" bubbles or "click
    > me for trivia" icons


    I feel the same way about Easter Eggs. I didn't spend $20 to play
    'Where's Waldo' with the deleted scenes. I buy a DVD to watch the
    freakin content. Put the bonus content clearly on the menu. If I want to
    hunt for secret codes and power-ups, I'll play Nintendo.
     
    Mark Spatny, May 18, 2004
    #15
  16. Steve

    Stan Brown Guest

    "SpammersDie" <> wrote in misc.consumers:
    >Autostarting the movie is a half-assed "solution" to a problem for which the
    >computer industry has had a well-accepted solution for years.


    I don't honestly think autostarting the movie is a solution for
    burn-in. I think it's intended as a convenience for consumers, who
    are used to commercial videos starting playing automatically. The
    decision was probably taken when DVD players were new -- and let's
    face it, an awful lot of people can't handle anything more
    complicated than an on/off switch.

    I wouldn't have a big problem with Universal auto-starting trailers,
    even, provide that they didn't disable the Menu button.

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems Cortland County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com
    You need any friends you can get. The only thing standing
    between you and a watery grave is your wits, and that's not
    my idea of adequate protection. -- /Beat the Devil/ (1954)
     
    Stan Brown, May 18, 2004
    #16
  17. Steve

    Justin Guest

    Mark Spatny wrote on [Tue, 18 May 2004 05:30:34 GMT]:
    > SpammersDie, says...
    >> "Bonus content" delivered in the form of "Did you know?" bubbles or "click
    >> me for trivia" icons

    >
    > I feel the same way about Easter Eggs. I didn't spend $20 to play
    > 'Where's Waldo' with the deleted scenes. I buy a DVD to watch the
    > freakin content. Put the bonus content clearly on the menu. If I want to
    > hunt for secret codes and power-ups, I'll play Nintendo.


    Cue OB Harry Potter and the Sorcerors Stone DVD reference.
     
    Justin, May 18, 2004
    #17
  18. Steve

    Goro Guest

    Steve <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Ran across this a while back, thought about it again in response to
    > another thread about forced previews on DVDs -
    >
    > Excerpts from Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox 12/9/01, by Dr. Donald A.
    > Norman:
    >
    > Summary: The DVD menu structure is getting more baroque, less usable,
    > less pleasurable, less effective. It is time to take DVD design as
    > seriously as we do web design. The field needs some discipline, some
    > attention to the user experience, and some standardization of control
    > and display formats.
    >
    > As DVD releases became more and more popular, the visual designers
    > took control. Now we have fancy, animated, complex menus. Moreover,
    > the entrance and exits from the menu are now becoming elaborate
    > productions, so the second or so it would take the DVD to find the new
    > section is amplified by the several seconds of movie or animation
    > excerpts, with sound. Slow is better, seems to be the rule,
    > contradicting a fundamental principle of good user experience.
    >
    > The menus themselves suffer badly from lack of standardization. Many
    > DVDs are inconsistent, in some sections working one way, in others
    > working another way.
    >
    > There is no reason that the main menu page couldn't show the audio,
    > video, language, and subscript settings, so the user wouldn't have to
    > go to the pages and check them just to make sure they are what is
    > wanted.
    >
    > Provide more information. Why not state the duration of each item in
    > the Special Menus, with a brief description, instead of the often
    > cryptic titles...
    >
    > http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20011209.html


    AMEN!

    i've taken to dvdshrinking my dvds with the movie only and NO MENUS AT
    ALL. i hate hate hate it when you have a 20-30sec stupid animation
    intro to get to the damn menu selections and then anothe 10-20 sec of
    animated outro. then Universal's overuse of PUOPs really irritates
    me. i will never buy one of their dvds as long as they use PUOPs on
    their trailers. Hell, when the trailers are ina bonus section, i
    ALWAYS watch them; when they are at the beginning of a dvd, i NEVER
    watch them. get a fscking clue Universal.

    -goro-
     
    Goro, May 19, 2004
    #18
  19. Steve

    Proprclr Guest

    (Michael Black) wrote in message news:<c8bei3$e24$>...
    > Stan Brown () writes:
    > > "Biz" <> wrote in misc.consumers:
    > >>One valid reason to have it start after a certain amount of time is to help
    > >>prevent burn-in for the consumers with plasma, LCD, etc.. tvs that are
    > >>susceptible to burn-in.

    > >
    > > The same thing could easily be accomplished by having the image fade
    > > if no menu selection is made in N minutes.
    > >
    > > And is burn-in really an issue if you leave one image on screen for
    > > say 15 minutes? 24 hours, maybe -- but somebody who can't get back
    > > to the TV within 24 hours after popping in a DVD has probably got
    > > much more weighty matters to worry about.
    > >

    > I once had a surplus monitor that did have burn in. It must have
    > come out of some commercial application where one line (it was actually
    > only a partial line) was always the same.
    >
    > But that does take a long time. And since the issue is "burn in" it's
    > not merely a matter of leaving the monitor/tv set on, it's a matter of
    > the same identical image being in the same identical place over a long time.
    > So it's not going to happen if you leave one menu on for 24 hours, and
    > then another menu for 24 hours a week later.
    >
    > My real cheap Malata DVD player has a built in screensaver. If I leave
    > it on, without a movie playing, it kicks in after about ten minutes. This
    > is my first and only player, and I assumed this was standard.
    >
    > Note that "burn in" was never a concept for the home user, until those
    > pong games came along thirty years ago. I can't remember if it did actually
    > cause burn-in, or if it was a mere concern. Remember, there were some fixed
    > areas, that could conceivably burn the screen.


    Many (most?) of the games for the Atari 2600 would alternate colors
    when a game was finished, or waiting to be started.

    >
    > Of course, screensavers are often not about saving the screen. They were
    > there initially because of burn-in (real or perceived), but the best
    > screensaver, next to turning off the monitor (which is what I do), would
    > be something to blank the screen to blank, so nothing appears. But of course,
    > screensavers have become a cool thing you leave running when you're computer
    > is not doing anything,


    What really amazes me is how many offices have computer monitors that
    are running 24/7 with nobody at the station half the time! How hard
    is it to hit the power/standby button? It's an incredible waste of
    electricity, and I imagine the CRT would wear out a lot quicker this
    way, than if it was turned off at the end of the workday (Now,
    I'll get off this little subject, so this thread won't turn into yet another
    "leave the computer on or off?" debate :0)

    >and rather than the primary thing being protecting
    > the screen, it's about something you can actually watch. Even that Malata
    > DVD player keeps something on the screen (admittedly somewhat useful so
    > you know it's on), moving a logo around like the ball on that old pong game.
    >
    > Michael



    Slightly OT, but one time the local cable access station in San Bernardino
    (a "back room" job) which usualy shows community bulletn board messages,
    was broadcasting the default Windows 2000 professional screensaver the
    whole night accross the IE! M$ was getting free advertising (as if they
    need it :)
     
    Proprclr, May 21, 2004
    #19
  20. Steve

    Proprclr Guest

    (Michael Black) wrote in message news:<c8bei3$e24$>...
    > Stan Brown () writes:
    > > "Biz" <> wrote in misc.consumers:
    > >>One valid reason to have it start after a certain amount of time is to help
    > >>prevent burn-in for the consumers with plasma, LCD, etc.. tvs that are
    > >>susceptible to burn-in.

    > >
    > > The same thing could easily be accomplished by having the image fade
    > > if no menu selection is made in N minutes.
    > >
    > > And is burn-in really an issue if you leave one image on screen for
    > > say 15 minutes? 24 hours, maybe -- but somebody who can't get back
    > > to the TV within 24 hours after popping in a DVD has probably got
    > > much more weighty matters to worry about.
    > >

    > I once had a surplus monitor that did have burn in. It must have
    > come out of some commercial application where one line (it was actually
    > only a partial line) was always the same.
    >
    > But that does take a long time. And since the issue is "burn in" it's
    > not merely a matter of leaving the monitor/tv set on, it's a matter of
    > the same identical image being in the same identical place over a long time.
    > So it's not going to happen if you leave one menu on for 24 hours, and
    > then another menu for 24 hours a week later.
    >
    > My real cheap Malata DVD player has a built in screensaver. If I leave
    > it on, without a movie playing, it kicks in after about ten minutes. This
    > is my first and only player, and I assumed this was standard.
    >
    > Note that "burn in" was never a concept for the home user, until those
    > pong games came along thirty years ago. I can't remember if it did actually
    > cause burn-in, or if it was a mere concern. Remember, there were some fixed
    > areas, that could conceivably burn the screen.


    Many (most?) of the games for the Atari 2600 would alternate colors
    when a game was finished, or waiting to be started.

    >
    > Of course, screensavers are often not about saving the screen. They were
    > there initially because of burn-in (real or perceived), but the best
    > screensaver, next to turning off the monitor (which is what I do), would
    > be something to blank the screen to blank, so nothing appears. But of course,
    > screensavers have become a cool thing you leave running when you're computer
    > is not doing anything,


    What really amazes me is how many offices have computer monitors that
    are running 24/7 with nobody at the station half the time! How hard
    is it to hit the power/standby button? It's an incredible waste of
    electricity, and I imagine the CRT would wear out a lot quicker this
    way, than if it was turned off at the end of the workday (Now,
    I'll get off this little subject, so this thread won't turn into yet another
    "leave the computer on or off?" debate :0)

    >and rather than the primary thing being protecting
    > the screen, it's about something you can actually watch. Even that Malata
    > DVD player keeps something on the screen (admittedly somewhat useful so
    > you know it's on), moving a logo around like the ball on that old pong game.
    >
    > Michael



    Slightly OT, but one time the local cable access station in San Bernardino
    (a "back room" job) which usualy shows community bulletn board messages,
    was broadcasting the default Windows 2000 professional screensaver the
    whole night accross the IE! M$ was getting free advertising (as if they
    need it :)

    a
     
    Proprclr, May 21, 2004
    #20
    1. Advertising

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