DVD Making Methods, Data Quality Question

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Cori, Mar 22, 2007.

  1. Cori

    Cori Guest

    Okay, I bought me a Zenith VCR-DVD combo which burns DVDs and records
    on VHS http://www.zenith.com/sub_prod/product_Display.asp?cat=&id=1046
    and I bought me a Canopus ADVC 110 converter which will convert from
    VHS tape or from camcorder tape to DVD. http://www.canopus.com/products/ADVC110/index.php

    Now, suppose I borrow home movies from a friend to transfer to DVD.
    Once I burn the DVD on my Zenith from their tape, is it "as digital as
    it's going to get," and that's it? Can I just make myself a copy with
    a DVD burner on my own Mac, and have the footage in as good a quality
    as there is? Or do I have to run all the material directly onto hard
    drive through the converter to have really good quality? What I'm
    asking is
    1. Is there a difference in quality when the Zenith saves me several
    steps in converting material direct to digital?
    2. Is there any generational loss if I make a DVD from another DVD,
    since one is a copy but they're both digital?

    Thanks for any abilities to explain this in terms understandable to my
    mind.

    Cori
     
    Cori, Mar 22, 2007
    #1
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  2. Cori

    Cori Guest

    I have a vaguish memory of someone possibly saying DVDs made on a
    computer may be written more times than those on such a combo, and to
    buy 8x DVDs, but it's all a blur after that.

    Cori

    On Mar 21, 10:30 pm, "Cori" <> wrote:

    > What I'm asking is
    > 1. Is there a difference in quality when the Zenith saves me several
    > steps in converting material direct to digital?
    > 2. Is there any generational loss if I make a DVD from another DVD,
    > since one is a copy but they're both digital?
    >
    > Thanks for any abilities to explain this in terms understandable to my
    > mind.
    >
    > Cori
     
    Cori, Mar 22, 2007
    #2
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  3. Cori

    Bob Guest

    On Mar 22, 1:30 pm, "Cori" <> wrote:
    > Okay, I bought me a Zenith VCR-DVDcombo which burns DVDs and records
    > on VHShttp://www.zenith.com/sub_prod/product_Display.asp?cat=&id=1046
    > and I bought me a Canopus ADVC 110 converter which will convert from
    > VHS tape or from camcorder tape toDVD. http://www.canopus.com/products/ADVC110/index.php
    >
    > Now, suppose I borrow home movies from a friend to transfer toDVD.
    > Once IburntheDVDon my Zenith from their tape, is it "as digital as
    > it's going to get," and that's it? Can I just make myself a copy with
    > aDVDburner on my own Mac, and have the footage in as good a quality
    > as there is? Or do I have to run all the material directly onto hard
    > drive through the converter to have really good quality? What I'm
    > asking is
    > 1. Is there a difference in quality when the Zenith saves me several
    > steps in converting material direct to digital?
    > 2. Is there any generational loss if I make aDVDfrom anotherDVD,
    > since one is a copy but they're both digital?
    >
    > Thanks for any abilities to explain this in terms understandable to my
    > mind.
    >
    > Cori


    I use the shareware DVD Slideshow Builder which is very popular now,
    many friends and I like it very much. It's very easy to create a
    customized DVD with photos and videos, and we can add music,
    transitions, and motion effects and make beautiful DVD menus. Also, we
    can create .mp4, .wmv, .avi, .3gp slideshows for our iPod, Zune and
    3GP Cell Phones, Youtube .etc.

    There is a free download link
    http://www.photo-to-dvd.com/dvd-slideshow-builder.php?sid=8
    A specific tutorial which guides you use it step by step is here
    http://www.photo-to-dvd.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2170

    Hope this helps!
     
    Bob, Mar 22, 2007
    #3
  4. In article <>,
    Cori <> wrote:
    >Okay, I bought me a Zenith VCR-DVD combo which burns DVDs and records
    >on VHS http://www.zenith.com/sub_prod/product_Display.asp?cat=&id=1046
    >and I bought me a Canopus ADVC 110 converter which will convert from
    >VHS tape or from camcorder tape to DVD. http://www.canopus.com/products/ADVC110/index.php
    >
    >Now, suppose I borrow home movies from a friend to transfer to DVD.
    >Once I burn the DVD on my Zenith from their tape, is it "as digital as
    >it's going to get," and that's it? Can I just make myself a copy with
    >a DVD burner on my own Mac, and have the footage in as good a quality
    >as there is? Or do I have to run all the material directly onto hard
    >drive through the converter to have really good quality? What I'm
    >asking is
    >1. Is there a difference in quality when the Zenith saves me several
    >steps in converting material direct to digital?
    >2. Is there any generational loss if I make a DVD from another DVD,
    >since one is a copy but they're both digital?
    >
    >Thanks for any abilities to explain this in terms understandable to my
    >mind.
    >
    >Cori


    YOu really need to use the ADVC to get the best quality.

    I have the 300 model. Canopus built their own video chip for those
    systems and their line goes up and up in price. They go from
    consuer to pro.

    They were so good that Thomson/Grass-Valley bought them over a year
    ago to add to their low-end end.

    Impressive equipment. Not sure about the 100 but the 300 had
    a built in TBC and 3D noise correction that was able to correct
    from pretty bad errors on tapes.

    Bill


    --
    Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
     
    Bill Vermillion, Mar 22, 2007
    #4
  5. Cori

    Mark W Guest

    "Cori" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Okay, I bought me a Zenith VCR-DVD combo which burns DVDs and records
    > on VHS http://www.zenith.com/sub_prod/product_Display.asp?cat=&id=1046
    > and I bought me a Canopus ADVC 110 converter which will convert from
    > VHS tape or from camcorder tape to DVD.
    > http://www.canopus.com/products/ADVC110/index.php
    >
    > Now, suppose I borrow home movies from a friend to transfer to DVD.
    > Once I burn the DVD on my Zenith from their tape, is it "as digital as
    > it's going to get," and that's it? Can I just make myself a copy with
    > a DVD burner on my own Mac, and have the footage in as good a quality
    > as there is? Or do I have to run all the material directly onto hard
    > drive through the converter to have really good quality? What I'm
    > asking is
    > 1. Is there a difference in quality when the Zenith saves me several
    > steps in converting material direct to digital?
    > 2. Is there any generational loss if I make a DVD from another DVD,
    > since one is a copy but they're both digital?
    >
    > Thanks for any abilities to explain this in terms understandable to my
    > mind.
    >
    > Cori
    >



    I'm sure there are some 'audiophile' types who are able to tell the
    difference between a factory pressed DVD and a copy burned on a recordable
    disc.
     
    Mark W, Mar 22, 2007
    #5
  6. Cori

    Stuart Guest

    "Mark W" <s@o> wrote in message
    news:46024bb7$...
    >
    > "Cori" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Okay, I bought me a Zenith VCR-DVD combo which burns DVDs and records
    >> on VHS http://www.zenith.com/sub_prod/product_Display.asp?cat=&id=1046
    >> and I bought me a Canopus ADVC 110 converter which will convert from
    >> VHS tape or from camcorder tape to DVD.
    >> http://www.canopus.com/products/ADVC110/index.php
    >>
    >> Now, suppose I borrow home movies from a friend to transfer to DVD.
    >> Once I burn the DVD on my Zenith from their tape, is it "as digital as
    >> it's going to get," and that's it? Can I just make myself a copy with
    >> a DVD burner on my own Mac, and have the footage in as good a quality
    >> as there is? Or do I have to run all the material directly onto hard
    >> drive through the converter to have really good quality? What I'm
    >> asking is
    >> 1. Is there a difference in quality when the Zenith saves me several
    >> steps in converting material direct to digital?
    >> 2. Is there any generational loss if I make a DVD from another DVD,
    >> since one is a copy but they're both digital?
    >>
    >> Thanks for any abilities to explain this in terms understandable to my
    >> mind.
    >>
    >> Cori
    >>

    >
    >
    > I'm sure there are some 'audiophile' types who are able to tell the
    > difference between a factory pressed DVD and a copy burned on a recordable
    > disc.
    >
    >


    The reality in the digital domain is you don't make 'a copy' you simply
    replicate the original. So if I make a 'copy' of a CD audio disc it is not
    going to suffer any audio quality in the same sense as making a copy of a
    copy of a copy of a tape in the analog domain. You can get accumulated
    digital artefacts - I mention that before the pedants chime in - but these
    are not common unless you are using crappy gear and crappy discs.
     
    Stuart, Mar 22, 2007
    #6
  7. In article <>,
    MassiveProng <> wrote:

    > I guess you are the consuer version.
    >
    > WRONG GROUP, dipshit.
    >
    > When you respond to this CRAP at least trim alt.video.dvd out of it.
    >
    > Hell, you are too stupid to trim your quotes as well, how could I
    > expect you to keep the horseshit in the right groups.


    Go **** yourself you ****!
     
    Ura Dippschit, Mar 22, 2007
    #7
  8. Cori

    AZ Nomad Guest

    On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:59:05 GMT, Stuart <stuart€@whodunnit8.com> wrote:



    >"Mark W" <s@o> wrote in message
    >news:46024bb7$...
    >>
    >> I'm sure there are some 'audiophile' types who are able to tell the
    >> difference between a factory pressed DVD and a copy burned on a recordable
    >> disc.


    >The reality in the digital domain is you don't make 'a copy' you simply
    >replicate the original. So if I make a 'copy' of a CD audio disc it is not
    >going to suffer any audio quality in the same sense as making a copy of a
    >copy of a copy of a tape in the analog domain. You can get accumulated
    >digital artefacts - I mention that before the pedants chime in - but these
    >are not common unless you are using crappy gear and crappy discs.



    You can't make a bit copy of a DVD that has been encrypted. It will not
    play. To copy a DVD, it must be remastered. To make matters worse, although
    copies can be made with bit-identical copies of the video files, most copies
    are made with the data compressed further in order to fit on a single layer
    blank.
     
    AZ Nomad, Mar 22, 2007
    #8
  9. On 3/21/2007, Cori posted this:
    > Okay, I bought me a Zenith VCR-DVD combo which burns DVDs and records
    > on VHS http://www.zenith.com/sub_prod/product_Display.asp?cat=&id=1046
    > and I bought me a Canopus ADVC 110 converter which will convert from
    > VHS tape or from camcorder tape to DVD.
    > http://www.canopus.com/products/ADVC110/index.php
    >
    > Now, suppose I borrow home movies from a friend to transfer to DVD.
    > Once I burn the DVD on my Zenith from their tape, is it "as digital as
    > it's going to get," and that's it? Can I just make myself a copy with
    > a DVD burner on my own Mac, and have the footage in as good a quality
    > as there is? Or do I have to run all the material directly onto hard
    > drive through the converter to have really good quality? What I'm
    > asking is
    > 1. Is there a difference in quality when the Zenith saves me several
    > steps in converting material direct to digital?
    > 2. Is there any generational loss if I make a DVD from another DVD,
    > since one is a copy but they're both digital?
    >
    > Thanks for any abilities to explain this in terms understandable to my
    > mind.
    >
    > Cori


    Well, I long ago vowed never to answer your posts, but I'll break my
    rule today.

    If you play a DVD, the digital data gets converted to analog. If you
    pass the resulting analog output through the ADVC100 to get it into
    your computer, it gets redigitized. These are two lossy steps. I
    reiterate in different words: you will *lose* quality (twice) in doing
    that.

    If you copy the files from the DVD into your computer using your
    computer's DVD drive, the DVD's digital data is copied bit-for-bit into
    the computer. No losses (no changes at all) in information.

    You could, of course, capture the video directly from the camcorder by
    FireWire, using the FireWire output of the camcorder and the FireWire
    input of your computer. Of course, this can't be done if it's an
    analog-only camcorder. However, in the case of the analog camcorder you
    still could digitize the analog output directly into your computer by
    using the ADVC. Both of these methods get your data into the computer
    with minimum loss, which reading the DVD directly would also
    accomplish.

    These two methods are almost equivalent. However, the two devices
    (ADVC, DVD recorder) will have different qualities of digitization. Try
    them and see what you like best.

    Still, nothing beats copying the data from a digital camcorder by
    FireWire, of course, since that is a bit-by-bit transfer.

    --
    Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
    letters617blochg3251
    (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Mar 22, 2007
    #9
  10. Cori

    Cori Guest

    On Mar 22, 11:38 am, Gene E. Bloch <> wrote:

    > These two methods are almost equivalent. However, the two devices
    > (ADVC, DVD recorder) will have different qualities of digitization. Try
    > them and see what you like best.


    Bob, THANKS for the information! It wasn't what I asked, but as it
    happens I do want to incorporate still images into some of my DVDs.

    Bill, someone else told me the Canopus would be higher quality and
    certainly on any footage I plan to edit, it has to get into the
    computer somehow. It's just that the Canopus seemed like an extra
    step if I have already transferred the same footage to digital via the
    Zenith. If the Canopus really is better, though, I shouldn't take
    chances on quality even despite the extra trouble.

    Gene, thanks for sharing your genius.

    Cori
     
    Cori, Mar 22, 2007
    #10
  11. Cori

    sbt Guest

    In article <>, Cori
    <> wrote:

    > On Mar 22, 11:38 am, Gene E. Bloch <> wrote:
    >
    > > These two methods are almost equivalent. However, the two devices
    > > (ADVC, DVD recorder) will have different qualities of digitization. Try
    > > them and see what you like best.

    >
    > Bob, THANKS for the information! It wasn't what I asked, but as it
    > happens I do want to incorporate still images into some of my DVDs.
    >
    > Bill, someone else told me the Canopus would be higher quality and
    > certainly on any footage I plan to edit, it has to get into the
    > computer somehow. It's just that the Canopus seemed like an extra
    > step if I have already transferred the same footage to digital via the
    > Zenith. If the Canopus really is better, though, I shouldn't take
    > chances on quality even despite the extra trouble.
    >
    > Gene, thanks for sharing your genius.
    >


    Cori:

    Going from VHS to computer via the Canopus because you wish to do
    additional editing will result in (possibly much) higher quality than
    using the Zenith to encode and then doing a Canopus transfer, because
    the conversion to digital in the Zenith includes a lossy compression to
    MPEG-2, followed by an analog-to-digital transfer to your Mac (it
    doesn't matter whether the content is stored in a digital or analog
    form if you're going to use an analog output on the digital content!),
    followed by another lossy compression after you do your editing.

    What you need to be concerned with is doing as little as possible to
    degrade your content on the path from original source to final product.
    The more times you compress and the more times you have an analog
    device in the loop, the more quality you lose.

    So:

    Assuming that you are limited by having originally analog (VHS)
    content, your least damaging path is to have only one analog transfer
    and one compression.

    Thus, if you don't need to edit, either "all-in-the-Zenith" or VHS to
    computer via ADVC followed by authoring on the Mac are roughly
    equivalent "least loss" processes -- it just depends on which has the
    best MPEG encoder.

    If you do need to edit, VHS to computer via ADVC, followed by editing
    (iMovie, Final Cut, etc) and authoring (iDVD, DVD Studio Pro, Toast,
    etc) are going to be your "least loss" solution.

    It really isn't difficult to figure this stuff out so long as you
    remember that the more you muck with analog and the more often you
    compress, the worse off you are.

    --
    Spenser
     
    sbt, Mar 22, 2007
    #11
  12. Cori

    Cori Guest

    On Mar 22, 3:00 pm, sbt <> wrote:

    > Going from VHS to computer via the Canopus because you wish to do
    > additional editing will result in (possibly much) higher quality than
    > using the Zenith to encode and then doing a Canopus transfer,


    Well, I assumed I wouldn't have to transfer to another form, once it
    was on DVD, because a DVD can be played in the computer. The way I
    transfer analog data with the Canopus is by using capture mode, then
    feeding the captured material into the computer. I'm just asking if
    material converted through the Canopus is of better quality than
    material burned onto the Zenith, or no difference.

    > Thus, if you don't need to edit, either "all-in-the-Zenith" or VHS to
    > computer via ADVC followed by authoring on the Mac are roughly
    > equivalent "least loss" processes -- it just depends on which has the
    > best MPEG encoder.


    > Spenser


    How do I learn specs on the encoders? The Canopus manual is a piece
    of worthless junk and I never learned anything about what it does or
    how to use it except by going on the forums. The Zenith manual is
    pretty detailed. Thanks for any indications.

    Cori
     
    Cori, Mar 23, 2007
    #12
  13. Cori

    iBallooka Guest

    On 2007-03-23 08:19:01 +0000, "Cori" <> said:

    > On Mar 22, 3:00 pm, sbt <> wrote:
    >
    >> Going from VHS to computer via the Canopus because you wish to do
    >> additional editing will result in (possibly much) higher quality than
    >> using the Zenith to encode and then doing a Canopus transfer,

    >
    > Well, I assumed I wouldn't have to transfer to another form, once it
    > was on DVD, because a DVD can be played in the computer. The way I
    > transfer analog data with the Canopus is by using capture mode, then
    > feeding the captured material into the computer. I'm just asking if
    > material converted through the Canopus is of better quality than
    > material burned onto the Zenith, or no difference.
    >
    >> Thus, if you don't need to edit, either "all-in-the-Zenith" or VHS to
    >> computer via ADVC followed by authoring on the Mac are roughly
    >> equivalent "least loss" processes -- it just depends on which has the
    >> best MPEG encoder.

    >
    >> Spenser

    >
    > How do I learn specs on the encoders? The Canopus manual is a piece
    > of worthless junk and I never learned anything about what it does or
    > how to use it except by going on the forums. The Zenith manual is
    > pretty detailed. Thanks for any indications.
    >
    > Cori


    The Canopus manual is not needed other than to show connections, once
    connected. all it does then is to simply transfer data from place to
    another digitally or analogue, the software on the computer then deals
    with this information in a manner you have set to do...

    What you do with the data once transferred to your computer is entirely
    dependent on what the end use is and your skill levels...

    Your using a very simple and basic VHS/DVD system and your importing
    from this it seems "movies" via the Canapos into your computer, if so
    then the old maxim kicks in "garbage in garbage out" If the original
    material is of low resolution/quality and the simple fact its VHS means
    it is when compared with modern day digital then all you ever can hope
    to achieve is "tweaking" round the edges...

    If your hardware and skill levels are sufficient then excellent results
    can be achieved all you need to do is invest time and money, if your
    unwilling or unable to do this then saying a manual is piece of junk
    will not help you in gaining information, even more so when the Canapos
    is the perfect choice to achieve what you want to achieve...

    If your not satisfied with simply putting in a VHS tape and copying
    over to DVD within the Zenith, then ask for alternatives, some have
    been given, video editing, codecs and DVD authoring are all very steep
    learning curves to do "properly" and hardware/software demands are high
    and expensive...Apple has iDVD and iMovie as a bridge but again to get
    the best from either you have to invest time in reading the
    information...

    And there are several free software packages available online which
    will probably meet you needs...

    Mike
    --
    Peace and Happiness is a State of Mind....
     
    iBallooka, Mar 23, 2007
    #13
  14. In article <>,
    Cori <> wrote:
    >On Mar 22, 11:38 am, Gene E. Bloch <> wrote:
    >
    >> These two methods are almost equivalent. However, the two devices
    >> (ADVC, DVD recorder) will have different qualities of digitization. Try
    >> them and see what you like best.

    >
    >Bob, THANKS for the information! It wasn't what I asked, but as it
    >happens I do want to incorporate still images into some of my DVDs.
    >
    >Bill, someone else told me the Canopus would be higher quality and
    >certainly on any footage I plan to edit, it has to get into the
    >computer somehow. It's just that the Canopus seemed like an extra
    >step if I have already transferred the same footage to digital via the
    >Zenith. If the Canopus really is better, though, I shouldn't take
    >chances on quality even despite the extra trouble.


    The ADVC units do a lot of extra processing - including having
    a TBC [Time Base Corrector] to make pictures stable, 3D noise
    reduction [compares previous and next frame for noise reduction]
    and other goodies such as being able to change colors to some
    degree, sharpness, contrast, etc. Good units if you do a lot to be
    able to amortized the costs over many transfers.

    They used to have some interesting comparisons with before/after
    images making old tapes look really good. Those don't appear to be
    there anymore. The Canpous product is probably a bit more than
    you need/can handle given the questions you have posted here
    before.

    Tranfering from VHS to digital via the Zenith is a low-cost method
    - while the Canopus lines the ADVC110 and ADVC300 are the low-end
    of the Canopus offerings - and the 300 fits into the pro-sumer mode
    - that is a high end consumer or low end pro device.

    Bill

    --
    Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
     
    Bill Vermillion, Mar 23, 2007
    #14
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