DVD Burner won't burn (LG, NEC)

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Tom, Aug 24, 2005.

  1. Tom

    Tom Guest

    Hi guys.

    The following problem has been occurring using two different, brand new,
    DVD burners: LG GSA-4163B and NEC 3520A. Both were able to read both CDs
    and DVDs but neither would burn.

    I am using Nero Burning Rom 6.6.0.16. The burning process starts but
    stops at 1% (lead-in). At this point, the burner LED is completely
    turned off even though the DVD is still spinning. The computer freezes
    and I have to manually reboot. If the DVD media is still in burner while
    rebooting, the Burner LED would turn on and the computer won't get to
    the point where Windows starts.

    I have tried different popular media with no success.

    The problem is identical in both burners, which leads me to believe this
    is an OS or another hardware related problem.

    My DVD burner is set as Secondary Master with one of my CD Burner as
    Secondary Slave. All IDE devices use Ultra DMA transfer modes 2 and 5.

    I am clueless as to what to do next, as the problems occur even with a
    different burning program (Roxio).

    My PC specifications:

    Primary IDE Master: IC35L040AVVN07-0 (Hard Drive)
    Primary IDE Slave: WDC WD200BB-00CFC0 (Another Hard Drive)
    Secondary IDE Master: _NEC DVD_RW ND-3520AW
    Secondary IDE Slave: ATAPI CD-RW CW5205
    CPU: P4 2.53GHz
    Memory: 512 DDR-RAM

    Any help/directions would be greatly appreciated.

    Tom.
     
    Tom, Aug 24, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Tom

    old jon Guest

    "Tom" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi guys.
    >
    > The following problem has been occurring using two different, brand new,
    > DVD burners: LG GSA-4163B and NEC 3520A. Both were able to read both CDs
    > and DVDs but neither would burn.
    >
    > I am using Nero Burning Rom 6.6.0.16. The burning process starts but
    > stops at 1% (lead-in). At this point, the burner LED is completely
    > turned off even though the DVD is still spinning. The computer freezes
    > and I have to manually reboot. If the DVD media is still in burner while
    > rebooting, the Burner LED would turn on and the computer won't get to
    > the point where Windows starts.
    >
    > I have tried different popular media with no success.
    >
    > The problem is identical in both burners, which leads me to believe this
    > is an OS or another hardware related problem.
    >
    > My DVD burner is set as Secondary Master with one of my CD Burner as
    > Secondary Slave. All IDE devices use Ultra DMA transfer modes 2 and 5.
    >
    > I am clueless as to what to do next, as the problems occur even with a
    > different burning program (Roxio).
    >
    > My PC specifications:
    >
    > Primary IDE Master: IC35L040AVVN07-0 (Hard Drive)
    > Primary IDE Slave: WDC WD200BB-00CFC0 (Another Hard Drive)
    > Secondary IDE Master: _NEC DVD_RW ND-3520AW
    > Secondary IDE Slave: ATAPI CD-RW CW5205
    > CPU: P4 2.53GHz
    > Memory: 512 DDR-RAM
    >
    > Any help/directions would be greatly appreciated.
    >
    > Tom.
    >

    What OS ?. Check your Event Viewer, see if you`ve got any errors showing up.
    best wishes..OJ
     
    old jon, Aug 24, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Tom

    knackered Guest

    "Tom" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi guys.
    >
    > The following problem has been occurring using two different, brand new,
    > DVD burners: LG GSA-4163B and NEC 3520A. Both were able to read both CDs
    > and DVDs but neither would burn.
    >
    > I am using Nero Burning Rom 6.6.0.16. The burning process starts but
    > stops at 1% (lead-in). At this point, the burner LED is completely
    > turned off even though the DVD is still spinning. The computer freezes
    > and I have to manually reboot. If the DVD media is still in burner while
    > rebooting, the Burner LED would turn on and the computer won't get to
    > the point where Windows starts.


    This is probably because it is configured to scan the drive's when booting
    and as it is not a bootable disk but corrupt media it can't get past this
    point.
    How do you remove the disk?
    (Usually in this situation, if you cannot eject disk when it freezes
    at this point of attempting to boot, power down, open case -
    remove IDE cable from drive, power up, press eject,remove disk,
    power down, reconnect IDE cable.)


    > I have tried different popular media with no success.


    An obvious question but................
    Is it the correct type of blank media?
    DVD-R/RW? DVD+R/RW? - Are your burner(s) compatible with both formats?
    Are you attempting to use dual-layer (8.5gb) media in drives
    that are Not compliant?
    And, are you putting the disks in correct side down?
    >
    > The problem is identical in both burners, which leads me to believe this
    > is an OS or another hardware related problem.


    ....or cheap/faulty/incompatible blank media?
    >
    > My DVD burner is set as Secondary Master with one of my CD Burner as
    > Secondary Slave. All IDE devices use Ultra DMA transfer modes 2 and 5.
    >
    > I am clueless as to what to do next, as the problems occur even with a
    > different burning program (Roxio).
    >
    > My PC specifications:


    Windows????????????

    > Primary IDE Master: IC35L040AVVN07-0 (Hard Drive) - meaningless
    > Primary IDE Slave: WDC WD200BB-00CFC0 (Another Hard Drive) - ditto
    > Secondary IDE Master: _NEC DVD_RW ND-3520AW
    > Secondary IDE Slave: ATAPI CD-RW CW5205 Your LG burner is identified

    as a
    cd rewriter.

    Are these listed in device manager as being without problems?

    > CPU: P4 2.53GHz
    > Memory: 512 DDR-RAM
    >
    > Any help/directions would be greatly appreciated.
    >
    > Tom.


    Have either drives ever functioned correctly?
     
    knackered, Aug 24, 2005
    #3
  4. Tom

    Aquanaut Guest

    "Tom" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi guys.
    >
    > The following problem has been occurring using two different, brand
    > new,
    > DVD burners: LG GSA-4163B and NEC 3520A. Both were able to read both
    > CDs
    > and DVDs but neither would burn.
    >
    > I am using Nero Burning Rom 6.6.0.16. The burning process starts but
    > stops at 1% (lead-in). At this point, the burner LED is completely
    > turned off even though the DVD is still spinning. The computer freezes
    > and I have to manually reboot. If the DVD media is still in burner
    > while
    > rebooting, the Burner LED would turn on and the computer won't get to
    > the point where Windows starts.
    >
    > I have tried different popular media with no success.
    >
    > The problem is identical in both burners, which leads me to believe
    > this
    > is an OS or another hardware related problem.
    >
    > My DVD burner is set as Secondary Master with one of my CD Burner as
    > Secondary Slave. All IDE devices use Ultra DMA transfer modes 2 and 5.
    >
    > I am clueless as to what to do next, as the problems occur even with a
    > different burning program (Roxio).
    >
    > My PC specifications:
    >
    > Primary IDE Master: IC35L040AVVN07-0 (Hard Drive)
    > Primary IDE Slave: WDC WD200BB-00CFC0 (Another Hard Drive)
    > Secondary IDE Master: _NEC DVD_RW ND-3520AW
    > Secondary IDE Slave: ATAPI CD-RW CW5205
    > CPU: P4 2.53GHz
    > Memory: 512 DDR-RAM
    >
    > Any help/directions would be greatly appreciated.
    >
    > Tom.


    First looking at your setup personaly i would not have both burners on
    the same channel.My prefered setup (well what works best for me)
    Pri master c: hard drive
    slave dvd burner
    sec master other hard drive
    sec slave cd burner
    I also tend to copy the source media to a folder on the relavant hard
    drive ,then burn from there.No doubt others have differing opinions,it
    works for me.
    As your pc will see and read both drives it is reasonable to say they
    are both working.There is a known conflict between Nero and Roxio
    software (easy cd creator for example) for some reason they are not
    comfortable being installed on the same machine at the same
    time--neither programme complains,just seems to hamper the capability of
    each.Remove all other burning software including demo stuff,dissable the
    xp function also(untill you get something working).
    On the hardware side try only installing one unit as a master on ide2
    (hd set as master and slave on ide1) ensure you have the jumpers on the
    rear of the drive set correctly,and exchange out the ribbon cable you
    are using for a new one.
    Get one working,add the second--then you can configure your setup to
    whatever advice you wish to take.
    Worst case scenario--one hard drive on ide1,burner on ide2 (all as
    master)--then add the rest one at a time ----see when it falls over etc.
    hth
    aquanaut

    ps a a second thought,you could be over stretching the power supply you
    have installed,go here and see if you are ok
    http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/Power_Supply_Calculator.php?cmd=INTEL
     
    Aquanaut, Aug 24, 2005
    #4
  5. Tom

    PC Guest

    "Tom" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi guys.
    >
    > The following problem has been occurring using two different, brand new,
    > DVD burners: LG GSA-4163B and NEC 3520A. Both were able to read both CDs
    > and DVDs but neither would burn.
    >
    > I am using Nero Burning Rom 6.6.0.16. The burning process starts but
    > stops at 1% (lead-in). At this point, the burner LED is completely
    > turned off even though the DVD is still spinning. The computer freezes
    > and I have to manually reboot. If the DVD media is still in burner while
    > rebooting, the Burner LED would turn on and the computer won't get to
    > the point where Windows starts.
    >
    > I have tried different popular media with no success.
    >
    > The problem is identical in both burners, which leads me to believe this
    > is an OS or another hardware related problem.
    >
    > My DVD burner is set as Secondary Master with one of my CD Burner as
    > Secondary Slave. All IDE devices use Ultra DMA transfer modes 2 and 5.
    >
    > I am clueless as to what to do next, as the problems occur even with a
    > different burning program (Roxio).
    >
    > My PC specifications:
    >
    > Primary IDE Master: IC35L040AVVN07-0 (Hard Drive)
    > Primary IDE Slave: WDC WD200BB-00CFC0 (Another Hard Drive)
    > Secondary IDE Master: _NEC DVD_RW ND-3520AW
    > Secondary IDE Slave: ATAPI CD-RW CW5205
    > CPU: P4 2.53GHz
    > Memory: 512 DDR-RAM
    >
    > Any help/directions would be greatly appreciated.
    >
    > Tom.



    Tom

    I had a machine that gave me lots of similar grief.
    Everything on the PC worked fine except burning.
    Tried 4 'new' drives that would all work (burn) ok in another PC without
    problem.
    Finally tracked it down to two things.
    1 Power supply noise, that is voltages were nominally correct on a
    multimeter but on an oscilloscope they showed as much as 0.5 volt of
    ripple/noise on each of the 5 and 12 volt lines. Mmax ripple spec for the
    drives was something like 0.1 volt. Replacing the supply fixed that.
    2 Replacing the 40 way IDE cables with 80 Way ATA 100/133 type.

    Hopes this helps

    Paul.
     
    PC, Aug 24, 2005
    #5
  6. Tom

    Tom Guest

    On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 20:13:41 GMT, "old jon"
    <> wrote:


    | What OS ?. Check your Event Viewer, see if you`ve got any errors showing up.
    | best wishes..OJ
    |

    WinXP Pro (with no Service Packs).

    Two identical hardware related error messages appeared in the Event
    Viewer. This is one of them:

    "An error was detected on device \Device\CdRom0 during a paging
    operation."

    I received a few other error messages but I'm not sure if those were
    originated when I tried to burn:

    "The device, \Device\CdRom0, has a bad block."
    "The Pdcsvc service failed to start due to the following error:
    The system cannot find the file specified."

    I really don't understand what those mean, but it DOES sound bad.
    I don't believe the DVD Burner is faulty. Could it be the IDE cable?
    (Previously I had another CD Burner on the same IDE connector which
    worked without any problems.)

    What do I do now?

    I really appreciate your help, old jon.

    Tom.
     
    Tom, Aug 25, 2005
    #6
  7. Tom

    Tom Guest

    On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 20:23:20 +0000 (UTC), "knackered" <.>
    wrote:

    |
    | "Tom" <> wrote in message
    | news:...
    | > Hi guys.
    | >
    | > The following problem has been occurring using two different, brand new,
    | > DVD burners: LG GSA-4163B and NEC 3520A. Both were able to read both CDs
    | > and DVDs but neither would burn.
    | >
    | > I am using Nero Burning Rom 6.6.0.16. The burning process starts but
    | > stops at 1% (lead-in). At this point, the burner LED is completely
    | > turned off even though the DVD is still spinning. The computer freezes
    | > and I have to manually reboot. If the DVD media is still in burner while
    | > rebooting, the Burner LED would turn on and the computer won't get to
    | > the point where Windows starts.
    |
    | This is probably because it is configured to scan the drive's when booting
    | and as it is not a bootable disk but corrupt media it can't get past this
    | point.
    | How do you remove the disk?
    | (Usually in this situation, if you cannot eject disk when it freezes
    | at this point of attempting to boot, power down, open case -
    | remove IDE cable from drive, power up, press eject,remove disk,
    | power down, reconnect IDE cable.)
    |

    Yes, this drive is probably one of my boot devices and this makes sense.

    "If the DVD media is still in burner while rebooting, the Burner LED
    would turn on and the computer won't get to the point where Windows
    starts." - At this point I can simply eject the DVD by pressing the
    Eject button and the Windows Login screen would show up immediately.

    I should note that the DVD can't be ejected after trying to burn, unless
    rebooted.

    |
    | > I have tried different popular media with no success.
    |
    | An obvious question but................
    | Is it the correct type of blank media?
    | DVD-R/RW? DVD+R/RW? - Are your burner(s) compatible with both formats?
    | Are you attempting to use dual-layer (8.5gb) media in drives
    | that are Not compliant?
    | And, are you putting the disks in correct side down?

    LOL. Yes, I am using Verbatim DVD-R 8X and another brand my friend
    brought to me for testing purposes (plain DVD, can't tell the brand). My
    DVD Burner (both of them, the NEC and the LG) support both (-) and (+).

    I wouldn't try burning dual-layer DVDs before first burning the simplest
    DVD :-D

    And yes, they are put with the correct side down.

    | >
    | > The problem is identical in both burners, which leads me to believe this
    | > is an OS or another hardware related problem.
    |
    | ...or cheap/faulty/incompatible blank media?

    Verbatim. Drive flashed.

    | >
    | > My DVD burner is set as Secondary Master with one of my CD Burner as
    | > Secondary Slave. All IDE devices use Ultra DMA transfer modes 2 and 5.
    | >
    | > I am clueless as to what to do next, as the problems occur even with a
    | > different burning program (Roxio).
    | >
    | > My PC specifications:
    |
    | Windows????????????

    Windows XP Pro w/ no Service Packs. Sorry, forgot to mention.

    | > Primary IDE Master: IC35L040AVVN07-0 (Hard Drive) - meaningless
    | > Primary IDE Slave: WDC WD200BB-00CFC0 (Another Hard Drive) - ditto
    | > Secondary IDE Master: _NEC DVD_RW ND-3520AW
    | > Secondary IDE Slave: ATAPI CD-RW CW5205 Your LG burner is identified
    | as a
    | cd rewriter.
    |
    | Are these listed in device manager as being without problems?

    No problems at all. My CD Writer is currently disabled (from the time I
    flashed the DVD Burner), but there were no problems in either drive.

    | > CPU: P4 2.53GHz
    | > Memory: 512 DDR-RAM
    | >
    | > Any help/directions would be greatly appreciated.
    | >
    | > Tom.
    |
    | Have either drives ever functioned correctly?

    2 CD Burners functioned correctly. 2 DVD burners (separately connected)
    never functioned correctly, except one rare time when I successfully
    wrote 1 CD and 1 DVD with the LG burner (which I no longer have).

    Thank you for your help, knackered.
     
    Tom, Aug 25, 2005
    #7
  8. Tom

    Tom Guest

    On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:57:12 GMT, "Aquanaut" <> wrote:

    | First looking at your setup personaly i would not have both burners on
    | the same channel.My prefered setup (well what works best for me)
    | Pri master c: hard drive
    | slave dvd burner
    | sec master other hard drive
    | sec slave cd burner

    I actually had a similar configuration (with the DVD burner as Primary
    Slave) but changed it so see if it would work. At the moment, I have my
    CD Burner as the Primary Slave and the DVD Burner as the Primary Master.
    I'm not sure if have two "Optical Media" drives on the same IDE matters.

    | I also tend to copy the source media to a folder on the relavant hard
    | drive ,then burn from there.No doubt others have differing opinions,it
    | works for me.

    I never burn on-the-fly and in my last burning attempt I was burning an
    ISO image.

    | As your pc will see and read both drives it is reasonable to say they
    | are both working.There is a known conflict between Nero and Roxio
    | software (easy cd creator for example) for some reason they are not
    | comfortable being installed on the same machine at the same
    | time--neither programme complains,just seems to hamper the capability of
    | each.Remove all other burning software including demo stuff,dissable the
    | xp function also(untill you get something working).

    With installation of one software, I uninstalled the other. My IMAPI
    service is disabled.

    | On the hardware side try only installing one unit as a master on ide2
    | (hd set as master and slave on ide1) ensure you have the jumpers on the
    | rear of the drive set correctly,and exchange out the ribbon cable you
    | are using for a new one.
    | Get one working,add the second--then you can configure your setup to
    | whatever advice you wish to take.
    | Worst case scenario--one hard drive on ide1,burner on ide2 (all as
    | master)--then add the rest one at a time ----see when it falls over etc.
    | hth
    | aquanaut

    I like this advice. I am trying to keep all hardware changes as last
    resort, since it is a nightmare to move the computer corner desk I have
    and get the computer out of there, hehe.

    As old jon suggested, I looked in the Event Viewer and some errors
    showed up. I will wait for an explanation and in case everything else
    fails, I will DEFINITELY try your configuration, as it sounds the most
    reliable.

    | ps a a second thought,you could be over stretching the power supply you
    | have installed,go here and see if you are ok
    | http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/Power_Supply_Calculator.php?cmd=INTEL

    Cool link :)
    I bought the case with the power supply over 2 years ago. I can't
    remember whether it was 350 or 450 watts. In any case, I passed the test
    :-D

    Thanks, Aquanaut.
     
    Tom, Aug 25, 2005
    #8
  9. Tom

    Tom Guest

    On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:29:16 +1200, "PC" <> wrote:

    | Tom
    |
    | I had a machine that gave me lots of similar grief.
    | Everything on the PC worked fine except burning.
    | Tried 4 'new' drives that would all work (burn) ok in another PC without
    | problem.
    | Finally tracked it down to two things.
    | 1 Power supply noise, that is voltages were nominally correct on a
    | multimeter but on an oscilloscope they showed as much as 0.5 volt of
    | ripple/noise on each of the 5 and 12 volt lines. Mmax ripple spec for the
    | drives was something like 0.1 volt. Replacing the supply fixed that.
    | 2 Replacing the 40 way IDE cables with 80 Way ATA 100/133 type.
    |
    | Hopes this helps
    |
    | Paul.
    |

    Paul,

    Thanks for that information. I was hoping someone who had the same
    problem would reply.

    After seeing the error messages from the Event Viewer (first reply), I'm
    definitely thinking of getting a new ribbon cable. Even though other
    type of devices worked properly on the same connection without any
    obvious problems.

    I will keep in mind changing the power supply to a better one, in case
    my last option of changing the devices configuration (DVD as Master on
    IDE1/2 and rest on a different IDE) does not work.

    Thank you,

    Tom.
     
    Tom, Aug 25, 2005
    #9
  10. Tom

    PC Guest

    "Tom" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:29:16 +1200, "PC" <> wrote:
    >
    > | Tom
    > |
    > | I had a machine that gave me lots of similar grief.
    > | Everything on the PC worked fine except burning.
    > | Tried 4 'new' drives that would all work (burn) ok in another PC without
    > | problem.
    > | Finally tracked it down to two things.
    > | 1 Power supply noise, that is voltages were nominally correct on a
    > | multimeter but on an oscilloscope they showed as much as 0.5 volt of
    > | ripple/noise on each of the 5 and 12 volt lines. Mmax ripple spec for
    > the
    > | drives was something like 0.1 volt. Replacing the supply fixed that.
    > | 2 Replacing the 40 way IDE cables with 80 Way ATA 100/133 type.
    > |
    > | Hopes this helps
    > |
    > | Paul.
    > |
    >
    > Paul,
    >
    > Thanks for that information. I was hoping someone who had the same
    > problem would reply.
    >
    > After seeing the error messages from the Event Viewer (first reply), I'm
    > definitely thinking of getting a new ribbon cable. Even though other
    > type of devices worked properly on the same connection without any
    > obvious problems.
    >
    > I will keep in mind changing the power supply to a better one, in case
    > my last option of changing the devices configuration (DVD as Master on
    > IDE1/2 and rest on a different IDE) does not work.
    >
    > Thank you,
    >
    > Tom.



    Tom

    You might also like to know two other burners originally in almost identical
    PC's died that I know of.
    One soon after install and the other soon after the end of warranty.
    In both cases I am convinced the PC killed them with high powersupply
    ripple.
    The power supplies in question all suffered from the 'Chinese Capacitor'
    problem.

    Of the other 4 drives I mentioned in my original reply two are still in use
    and don't appear to be seriously damaged. The other two unfortunately died
    after about 24 months.
    The 'fixed' PC is now relegated to a secondary role in my workshop but
    nowdays burns disks just fine.
    The replacement 'main' PC is running two DVDRW and one CDRW drive(s) and
    gets quite a thrashing burning disks. To date some 20 months after the
    change the only trouble I've had is a couple of coasters caused by burning
    supermarket cheap CDR's at to fast a speed.
    Another tech I have contact with tried the ATA 133 IDE cable trick with 100%
    success a few months ago.

    Replace the IDE cables first, they will be the easiest to do.
    As for the power supply, try and track down a Radio Ham near you, they more
    than likely can point you at someone with a 'scope' to check the output from
    your Power supply before you spend up.

    Cheers
    Paul.
     
    PC, Aug 25, 2005
    #10
  11. Tom

    Tom Guest

    | Tom
    |
    | You might also like to know two other burners originally in almost identical
    | PC's died that I know of.
    | One soon after install and the other soon after the end of warranty.
    | In both cases I am convinced the PC killed them with high powersupply
    | ripple.
    | The power supplies in question all suffered from the 'Chinese Capacitor'
    | problem.
    |
    | Of the other 4 drives I mentioned in my original reply two are still in use
    | and don't appear to be seriously damaged. The other two unfortunately died
    | after about 24 months.
    | The 'fixed' PC is now relegated to a secondary role in my workshop but
    | nowdays burns disks just fine.
    | The replacement 'main' PC is running two DVDRW and one CDRW drive(s) and
    | gets quite a thrashing burning disks. To date some 20 months after the
    | change the only trouble I've had is a couple of coasters caused by burning
    | supermarket cheap CDR's at to fast a speed.
    | Another tech I have contact with tried the ATA 133 IDE cable trick with 100%
    | success a few months ago.
    |
    | Replace the IDE cables first, they will be the easiest to do.
    | As for the power supply, try and track down a Radio Ham near you, they more
    | than likely can point you at someone with a 'scope' to check the output from
    | your Power supply before you spend up.
    |
    | Cheers
    | Paul.

    Is this the IDE cable you're referring to?
    http://www.aboutcomputerparts.com/ststore/itemdetail.cfm?tab=d&ProductID=IDE66&topbar=acp-home.htm
    Extremely cheap, I'd say.

    Do you think it matters if I change both IDE cables or just the one with
    the burner on it? Even though it's cheap, I really don't feel like
    spending much right now, especially since this might not even be the
    problem.

    Tom.
     
    Tom, Aug 26, 2005
    #11
  12. Tom

    knackered Guest

    "Tom" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >| Tom
    > |
    > | You might also like to know two other burners originally in almost
    > identical
    > | PC's died that I know of.
    > | One soon after install and the other soon after the end of warranty.
    > | In both cases I am convinced the PC killed them with high powersupply
    > | ripple.
    > | The power supplies in question all suffered from the 'Chinese Capacitor'
    > | problem.
    > |
    > | Of the other 4 drives I mentioned in my original reply two are still in
    > use
    > | and don't appear to be seriously damaged. The other two unfortunately
    > died
    > | after about 24 months.
    > | The 'fixed' PC is now relegated to a secondary role in my workshop but
    > | nowdays burns disks just fine.
    > | The replacement 'main' PC is running two DVDRW and one CDRW drive(s) and
    > | gets quite a thrashing burning disks. To date some 20 months after the
    > | change the only trouble I've had is a couple of coasters caused by
    > burning
    > | supermarket cheap CDR's at to fast a speed.
    > | Another tech I have contact with tried the ATA 133 IDE cable trick with
    > 100%
    > | success a few months ago.
    > |
    > | Replace the IDE cables first, they will be the easiest to do.
    > | As for the power supply, try and track down a Radio Ham near you, they
    > more
    > | than likely can point you at someone with a 'scope' to check the output
    > from
    > | your Power supply before you spend up.
    > |
    > | Cheers
    > | Paul.
    >
    > Is this the IDE cable you're referring to?
    > http://www.aboutcomputerparts.com/ststore/itemdetail.cfm?tab=d&ProductID=IDE66&topbar=acp-home.htm
    > Extremely cheap, I'd say.
    >
    > Do you think it matters if I change both IDE cables or just the one with
    > the burner on it? Even though it's cheap, I really don't feel like
    > spending much right now, especially since this might not even be the
    > problem.
    >
    > Tom.


    Hi Tom
    I doubt it to be a power supply issue, nor the EIDE cable -
    An 80 thread cable is exactly same as 40, but with a
    ground return for each path, I just cannot see this will
    solve the problem of your drives failing to burn and
    the subsequent crash?
    Your problem has all the elements of hardware conflict.
    I can only suggest that as both burners are on the same
    channel, with one as master and one as slave -
    Remove the slave unit from device manager,
    Remove the ide cable from slave unit.
    Have only One burner configured on that channel.
    Try it, if it works, it was a hardware conflict............
    Reconfigure EIDE hardware:
    Your primary IDE master HD is functioning fine?
    If so, leave it as such.
    The slave HD - configure as master on the secondary
    IDE channel - if it works, you have eliminated the
    secondary channel as being the cause of problem.
    If so, configure each burner as slave on the primary
    and secondary channel - which as "Aquanaut" has
    accurately pointed out in his post, is the correct
    configuration. And it won't cost you a penny on
    needless 80 core cables.
     
    knackered, Aug 26, 2005
    #12
  13. Tom

    Tom Guest

    | Hi Tom
    | I doubt it to be a power supply issue, nor the EIDE cable -
    | An 80 thread cable is exactly same as 40, but with a
    | ground return for each path, I just cannot see this will
    | solve the problem of your drives failing to burn and
    | the subsequent crash?
    | Your problem has all the elements of hardware conflict.
    | I can only suggest that as both burners are on the same
    | channel, with one as master and one as slave -
    | Remove the slave unit from device manager,
    | Remove the ide cable from slave unit.
    | Have only One burner configured on that channel.
    | Try it, if it works, it was a hardware conflict............
    | Reconfigure EIDE hardware:
    | Your primary IDE master HD is functioning fine?
    | If so, leave it as such.
    | The slave HD - configure as master on the secondary
    | IDE channel - if it works, you have eliminated the
    | secondary channel as being the cause of problem.
    | If so, configure each burner as slave on the primary
    | and secondary channel - which as "Aquanaut" has
    | accurately pointed out in his post, is the correct
    | configuration. And it won't cost you a penny on
    | needless 80 core cables.

    I actually read that the 80-wires cable uses the extra to separate noise
    and is ideal for UDMA-2 and above (the mode for both burners).

    However, I will do pretty much anything to save a couple of bucks, so
    I'm going to try to reconfigure everything to the setup you suggested.

    There are some clues as to why these problems are caused, but I don't
    know what they mean. Earlier on this thread, Old Jon told me to look in
    the Event Viewer and there I found some related error messages:

    "An error was detected on device \Device\CdRom0 during a paging
    operation."

    What does that mean?

    Going to try reconfiguring the cables and see what happens.

    Thanks Knackered.
     
    Tom, Aug 27, 2005
    #13
  14. Tom

    PC Guest

    snip

    >Hi Tom
    > I doubt it to be a power supply issue, nor the EIDE cable -
    > An 80 thread cable is exactly same as 40, but with a
    > ground return for each path, I just cannot see this will
    > solve the problem of your drives failing to burn and
    > the subsequent crash?
    > Your problem has all the elements of hardware conflict.
    > I can only suggest that as both burners are on the same
    > channel, with one as master and one as slave -
    > Remove the slave unit from device manager,
    > Remove the ide cable from slave unit.
    > Have only One burner configured on that channel.
    > Try it, if it works, it was a hardware conflict............
    > Reconfigure EIDE hardware:
    > Your primary IDE master HD is functioning fine?
    > If so, leave it as such.
    > The slave HD - configure as master on the secondary
    > IDE channel - if it works, you have eliminated the
    > secondary channel as being the cause of problem.
    > If so, configure each burner as slave on the primary
    > and secondary channel - which as "Aquanaut" has
    > accurately pointed out in his post, is the correct
    > configuration. And it won't cost you a penny on
    > needless 80 core cables.


    Dear "Knackered"

    Sorry to disagree with you but I've seen it with my own eyes.

    The power supplies 'can' have an effect, I have a stack of them (same brand
    / model) in the office to prove it.
    They were all taken from machines that developed 'flakey' habbits, a common
    characteristic was trouble reading CD's. (most had CD readers)
    A new power supply usually fixed them.

    On my particular 'problem' machine one of the earlier 'fixes' was to add a
    470uf capacitor to the 5 and 12 volt lines where they entered the CD Burners
    power supply socket. This mod made the Slave burner on IDE port 1 start to
    work, but not the burner on IDE 2. (couldn't even read properly)
    The difference between the two was IDE 1 was using an 80way cable wereas
    IDE2 had a 40 way cable.
    Putting an 80 way cable on IDE 2 'instantly' fixed the second burner.
    Exactly the same affect my fellow Tech had with an entirely different
    machine (as alluded to above)
    There is a reason 80 way cables were developed and this is a classic example
    of where they can be used to good effect.

    Now just to 'prove' the power supply effect the 470uf caps were removed
    (we'd made them as plug in extensions to the normal loom) but with the 80
    way IDE cables and straight away we couldn't get either burner to burn
    correctly.
    The both would burn, but when we looked at the disks with Nero CD speed the
    disks showed huge C1 errors and even C2 errors. C2 errors basically means
    the CD is 'knackered' (sorry) :)

    Replacing the dodgy power supply with a new one (different brand / model I
    might add with < 10-20mv of noise) both burners would burn CD's with no C2
    errors and C1 errors down in the range one would expect for the brand of CDR
    involved.

    So in summary the machine in question needed (a) a new power supply and (b)
    80 way cables for the burners to work correctly

    Regardez
    Paul.
     
    PC, Aug 27, 2005
    #14
  15. Tom

    Tom Guest

    | Hi Tom
    | I doubt it to be a power supply issue, nor the EIDE cable -
    | An 80 thread cable is exactly same as 40, but with a
    | ground return for each path, I just cannot see this will
    | solve the problem of your drives failing to burn and
    | the subsequent crash?
    | Your problem has all the elements of hardware conflict.
    | I can only suggest that as both burners are on the same
    | channel, with one as master and one as slave -
    | Remove the slave unit from device manager,
    | Remove the ide cable from slave unit.
    | Have only One burner configured on that channel.
    | Try it, if it works, it was a hardware conflict............
    | Reconfigure EIDE hardware:
    | Your primary IDE master HD is functioning fine?
    | If so, leave it as such.
    | The slave HD - configure as master on the secondary
    | IDE channel - if it works, you have eliminated the
    | secondary channel as being the cause of problem.
    | If so, configure each burner as slave on the primary
    | and secondary channel - which as "Aquanaut" has
    | accurately pointed out in his post, is the correct
    | configuration. And it won't cost you a penny on
    | needless 80 core cables.

    So here's what I've done (pretty much everything):

    Reinstalled Nero; switched IDE cables by connecting IDE1 to IDE2 and
    IDE2 to IDE1 on the motherboard; changing all the devices on IDE1 to
    IDE2 and vice versa (this eliminates the possibility of a damaged
    cable); physically removing the CD Burner and 2nd HDD, with one HDD as
    Master and the DVD Burner as Slave (what you guys said was the correct
    configuration).

    Still, no result.

    I don't think there are any devices left for the DVD Burner to conflict
    with, but I understand why it looks this way.

    Something I've just noticed is that the exact same error message ("An
    error was detected on device \Device\CdRom0 during a paging operation")
    appears no matter what the configuration is like. Whether the burner is
    Master or Slave, Primary or Secondary, the message would be the same.
     
    Tom, Aug 28, 2005
    #15
  16. Tom

    Tom Guest

    | Dear "Knackered"
    |
    | Sorry to disagree with you but I've seen it with my own eyes.
    |
    | The power supplies 'can' have an effect, I have a stack of them (same brand
    | / model) in the office to prove it.
    | They were all taken from machines that developed 'flakey' habbits, a common
    | characteristic was trouble reading CD's. (most had CD readers)
    | A new power supply usually fixed them.
    |
    | On my particular 'problem' machine one of the earlier 'fixes' was to add a
    | 470uf capacitor to the 5 and 12 volt lines where they entered the CD Burners
    | power supply socket. This mod made the Slave burner on IDE port 1 start to
    | work, but not the burner on IDE 2. (couldn't even read properly)
    | The difference between the two was IDE 1 was using an 80way cable wereas
    | IDE2 had a 40 way cable.
    | Putting an 80 way cable on IDE 2 'instantly' fixed the second burner.
    | Exactly the same affect my fellow Tech had with an entirely different
    | machine (as alluded to above)
    | There is a reason 80 way cables were developed and this is a classic example
    | of where they can be used to good effect.
    |
    | Now just to 'prove' the power supply effect the 470uf caps were removed
    | (we'd made them as plug in extensions to the normal loom) but with the 80
    | way IDE cables and straight away we couldn't get either burner to burn
    | correctly.
    | The both would burn, but when we looked at the disks with Nero CD speed the
    | disks showed huge C1 errors and even C2 errors. C2 errors basically means
    | the CD is 'knackered' (sorry) :)
    |
    | Replacing the dodgy power supply with a new one (different brand / model I
    | might add with < 10-20mv of noise) both burners would burn CD's with no C2
    | errors and C1 errors down in the range one would expect for the brand of CDR
    | involved.
    |
    | So in summary the machine in question needed (a) a new power supply and (b)
    | 80 way cables for the burners to work correctly
    |
    | Regardez
    | Paul.

    Paul,

    When changing the configuration of my drives, I was amazed to see that,
    apparently, all my IDE cables are 80-wire. I didn't really bother to
    count each wire but it looked as if there were easily more than a
    hundred wires. Plus, one connector on each IDE cable was blue, which I
    think is a characteristic of 80-wire IDE cable. I may be wrong, though.
    (I'm HOPING I'm wrong.)

    As for the power supply, do you think have the it connected along with
    multiple other electronic devices has any effect?
     
    Tom, Aug 28, 2005
    #16
  17. Tom

    Knackered Guest

    "Tom" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >| Hi Tom
    > | I doubt it to be a power supply issue, nor the EIDE cable -
    > | An 80 thread cable is exactly same as 40, but with a
    > | ground return for each path, I just cannot see this will
    > | solve the problem of your drives failing to burn and
    > | the subsequent crash?
    > | Your problem has all the elements of hardware conflict.
    > | I can only suggest that as both burners are on the same
    > | channel, with one as master and one as slave -
    > | Remove the slave unit from device manager,
    > | Remove the ide cable from slave unit.
    > | Have only One burner configured on that channel.
    > | Try it, if it works, it was a hardware conflict............
    > | Reconfigure EIDE hardware:
    > | Your primary IDE master HD is functioning fine?
    > | If so, leave it as such.
    > | The slave HD - configure as master on the secondary
    > | IDE channel - if it works, you have eliminated the
    > | secondary channel as being the cause of problem.
    > | If so, configure each burner as slave on the primary
    > | and secondary channel - which as "Aquanaut" has
    > | accurately pointed out in his post, is the correct
    > | configuration. And it won't cost you a penny on
    > | needless 80 core cables.
    >
    > So here's what I've done (pretty much everything):
    >
    > Reinstalled Nero; switched IDE cables by connecting IDE1 to IDE2 and
    > IDE2 to IDE1 on the motherboard; changing all the devices on IDE1 to
    > IDE2 and vice versa (this eliminates the possibility of a damaged
    > cable); physically removing the CD Burner and 2nd HDD, with one HDD as
    > Master and the DVD Burner as Slave (what you guys said was the correct
    > configuration).
    >
    > Still, no result.
    >
    > I don't think there are any devices left for the DVD Burner to conflict
    > with, but I understand why it looks this way.
    >
    > Something I've just noticed is that the exact same error message ("An
    > error was detected on device \Device\CdRom0 during a paging operation")
    > appears no matter what the configuration is like. Whether the burner is
    > Master or Slave, Primary or Secondary, the message would be the same.


    Hi Tom,
    The specific error message garners no results from the MS knowledge
    database.
    If it was the power supply, there would be a heap of other problems with
    your
    PC.
    It was never the IDE cables, and thats more or less confirmed now.

    The hardware reconfiguring you have performed makes No sense?
    Changing Master/Slave settings involves changing the jumpers on
    the rear panel of each device - and I now suspect we may have
    stumbled on the cause of the original problem!!!
    I now suspect the two burners that were originally installed on
    the secondary channel were both set to be master?
    This is what you are going to do now:
    On the primary IDE channel, the hard drive with windows installed
    was obviously configured correctly as master.
    Leave it as such - confirm by looking at rear panel and look for
    a "jumper" that is plugged into the "master" socket, below it
    will be the "Slave" socket with nothing plugged into it.

    Your second hard drive you are going to configure as "master"
    on the secondary IDE channel - Remove this HD from case-
    Remove all cables.
    Look at rear panel of this HD, you will find the jumper is set
    to "Slave" - remove the jumper and plug into the "master socket.
    Now connect this HD to the secondary IDE channel with an IDE
    cable.

    At this point you will now have two HD's each connected as master
    to each IDE channel (Ensuring "C"/Windows is master on primary
    channel)

    Now on rear of each of your burners, you are going to reset the
    jumpers so as each burner is now set to "Slave"

    Connect one burner to the same cable as Master HD on the
    primary IDE channel.

    Connect the other burner to the same cable as the Master HD
    on the secondary IDE channel.

    The configuration should be:
    Primary IDE channel= Hard drive (C) as Master and Burner as
    slave.

    Secondary IDE channel= Hard drive as Master and burner as
    Slave.

    #IMPORTANT NOTE: To configure Master/Slave is performed
    by changing the jumper settings on rear of each device.

    Reconnect all power cables to each device.
     
    Knackered, Aug 28, 2005
    #17
  18. Tom

    Knackered Guest

    "PC" <> wrote in message
    news:9vQPe.6255$...
    > snip
    >
    >>Hi Tom
    >> I doubt it to be a power supply issue, nor the EIDE cable -
    >> An 80 thread cable is exactly same as 40, but with a
    >> ground return for each path, I just cannot see this will
    >> solve the problem of your drives failing to burn and
    >> the subsequent crash?
    >> Your problem has all the elements of hardware conflict.
    >> I can only suggest that as both burners are on the same
    >> channel, with one as master and one as slave -
    >> Remove the slave unit from device manager,
    >> Remove the ide cable from slave unit.
    >> Have only One burner configured on that channel.
    >> Try it, if it works, it was a hardware conflict............
    >> Reconfigure EIDE hardware:
    >> Your primary IDE master HD is functioning fine?
    >> If so, leave it as such.
    >> The slave HD - configure as master on the secondary
    >> IDE channel - if it works, you have eliminated the
    >> secondary channel as being the cause of problem.
    >> If so, configure each burner as slave on the primary
    >> and secondary channel - which as "Aquanaut" has
    >> accurately pointed out in his post, is the correct
    >> configuration. And it won't cost you a penny on
    >> needless 80 core cables.

    >
    > Dear "Knackered"
    >
    > Sorry to disagree with you but I've seen it with my own eyes.
    >
    > The power supplies 'can' have an effect, I have a stack of them (same
    > brand / model) in the office to prove it.
    > They were all taken from machines that developed 'flakey' habbits, a
    > common characteristic was trouble reading CD's. (most had CD readers)
    > A new power supply usually fixed them.
    >
    > On my particular 'problem' machine one of the earlier 'fixes' was to add a
    > 470uf capacitor to the 5 and 12 volt lines where they entered the CD
    > Burners power supply socket. This mod made the Slave burner on IDE port 1
    > start to work, but not the burner on IDE 2. (couldn't even read properly)
    > The difference between the two was IDE 1 was using an 80way cable wereas
    > IDE2 had a 40 way cable.
    > Putting an 80 way cable on IDE 2 'instantly' fixed the second burner.
    > Exactly the same affect my fellow Tech had with an entirely different
    > machine (as alluded to above)
    > There is a reason 80 way cables were developed and this is a classic
    > example of where they can be used to good effect.
    >
    > Now just to 'prove' the power supply effect the 470uf caps were removed
    > (we'd made them as plug in extensions to the normal loom) but with the 80
    > way IDE cables and straight away we couldn't get either burner to burn
    > correctly.
    > The both would burn, but when we looked at the disks with Nero CD speed
    > the disks showed huge C1 errors and even C2 errors. C2 errors basically
    > means the CD is 'knackered' (sorry) :)
    >
    > Replacing the dodgy power supply with a new one (different brand / model I
    > might add with < 10-20mv of noise) both burners would burn CD's with no C2
    > errors and C1 errors down in the range one would expect for the brand of
    > CDR involved.
    >
    > So in summary the machine in question needed (a) a new power supply and
    > (b) 80 way cables for the burners to work correctly
    >
    > Regardez
    > Paul.
    >

    Hi Paul,
    Give it a rest!
    Tom's problem is obviously a hardware conflict issue.
    I now suspect (and have posted elsewhere in this thread
    what he should now do...) it was simple case that he
    misunderstood how the IDE cable is configured.
    I think he thought where you positioned a device on an
    IDE cable dictated it's status as master or slave -
    I don't think he realised the jumpers on rear panel of
    each device have to be set to the desired status, his
    configuration resulting in two burners on the secondary
    IDE channel be set as master, hence the oblique error
    paging message he was receiving.
    The problem has nothing to do with capacitors, cables,
    wiring, Global warming, Chinese bra wars, nor the price
    of cod.
    From outset it was obvious to be hardware misconfigured
    and we are getting there, so put another shilling in the
    meter and stop leading the poor bloke up the garden path.
    Wishing you a safe Bon Jovi.
    K.
     
    Knackered, Aug 28, 2005
    #18
  19. Tom

    Knackered Guest

    Hi Tom
    I did a brief search for images on how to change the jumper
    settings to either master or slave for an IDE device.
    There is probably plenty more sites with images, but this
    one has at least got an image of where on rear panel the
    jumper is, and how to change it to desired setting.

    http://www.build-your-own-cheap-computer.com/computer-internal-drives.html

    Let us know how you get on.
     
    Knackered, Aug 28, 2005
    #19
  20. Tom

    Tom Guest

    | Hi Tom,
    | The specific error message garners no results from the MS knowledge
    | database.
    | If it was the power supply, there would be a heap of other problems with
    | your
    | PC.
    | It was never the IDE cables, and thats more or less confirmed now.
    |
    | The hardware reconfiguring you have performed makes No sense?
    | Changing Master/Slave settings involves changing the jumpers on
    | the rear panel of each device - and I now suspect we may have
    | stumbled on the cause of the original problem!!!
    | I now suspect the two burners that were originally installed on
    | the secondary channel were both set to be master?
    | This is what you are going to do now:
    | On the primary IDE channel, the hard drive with windows installed
    | was obviously configured correctly as master.
    | Leave it as such - confirm by looking at rear panel and look for
    | a "jumper" that is plugged into the "master" socket, below it
    | will be the "Slave" socket with nothing plugged into it.
    |
    | Your second hard drive you are going to configure as "master"
    | on the secondary IDE channel - Remove this HD from case-
    | Remove all cables.
    | Look at rear panel of this HD, you will find the jumper is set
    | to "Slave" - remove the jumper and plug into the "master socket.
    | Now connect this HD to the secondary IDE channel with an IDE
    | cable.
    |
    | At this point you will now have two HD's each connected as master
    | to each IDE channel (Ensuring "C"/Windows is master on primary
    | channel)
    |
    | Now on rear of each of your burners, you are going to reset the
    | jumpers so as each burner is now set to "Slave"
    |
    | Connect one burner to the same cable as Master HD on the
    | primary IDE channel.
    |
    | Connect the other burner to the same cable as the Master HD
    | on the secondary IDE channel.
    |
    | The configuration should be:
    | Primary IDE channel= Hard drive (C) as Master and Burner as
    | slave.
    |
    | Secondary IDE channel= Hard drive as Master and burner as
    | Slave.
    |
    | #IMPORTANT NOTE: To configure Master/Slave is performed
    | by changing the jumper settings on rear of each device.
    |
    | Reconnect all power cables to each device.
    |

    OMG. Now 3 posts claiming I know nothing about jumpers :(
    LOL. I had the right configuration and all jumpers set correctly, and
    just to be sure, I looked in POST.

    I really appreciate your help, but apparently the IDE configurations
    make no change :-D

    Thanks again.
     
    Tom, Aug 31, 2005
    #20
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