DVD and CD ROT: Out of the closet, at last!

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by One-Shot Scot, May 11, 2004.

  1. Some in this newsgroup who have not experienced DVD rot continue to
    ridicule and belittle those who have. My first rotted disk was
    _Cabaret_, which failed to play only 4 months after I bought it in 1998.
    Other rotted titles followed, and I reported all of them. Other people
    reported that they too had experienced DVD Rot, but for the most part,
    all of us were quickly dismissed as crackpots.

    Now that the DVD Rot problem has infested more and more disks, DVD Rot
    articles are becoming more and more common, including a recent one from
    CNN. If I sound bitter and cynical, it is because I have been
    mocked and insulted for 6 years for my concerns about DVD Rot. Now, I
    can tell my detractors, "I told you so!" But my vindication is not a
    happy one, because, like everyone else on this newsgroup, I too have a
    collection of DVDs and CDs which is currently rotting away.

    Some people think that backing up their DVDs and CDs to DVD-R and
    CD-R disks will protect their investment. According to the CNN article
    referenced below, ALL optical disks will eventually rot, some much
    sooner than others. Brand loyalty is a waste of time and money when
    buying recordable optical disks because manufacturers continually change
    their materials and manufacturing methods. A slow-rotting brand-name
    formula might be replaced by a fast-rotting brand-name formula without
    notice. Let the buyer beware.

    If you are still living in a dream world and think that DVD and CD Rot
    is nothing more than an urban legend, don't read this article, it will
    only upset you:

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/
    One-Shot Scot, May 11, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. One-Shot Scot

    Larry G Guest

    "One-Shot Scot" <> wrote in message ...
    > Some in this newsgroup who have not experienced DVD rot continue to
    > ridicule and belittle those who have. My first rotted disk was
    > _Cabaret_, which failed to play only 4 months after I bought it in 1998.
    > Other rotted titles followed, and I reported all of them. Other people
    > reported that they too had experienced DVD Rot, but for the most part,
    > all of us were quickly dismissed as crackpots.


    I don't know why people get so worked up over this. I know that it is worth
    getting worked up over, don't get me wrong. But, why doesn't anyone ever
    mention the "good old days" of VHS tapes. I can't tell you the number of
    times I've lost tapes because my VCR got "hungry" and decided to munch on
    tapes and make them nearly unwatchable. Even had a few VCRs rewind the tape
    clean off the roller, and I had to do "surgery" on the tape to get it
    working. <g> Have I not mentioned that tapes, unlike DVD get progressively
    worse upon each viewing. This is not to mention that they're only half of
    what NTSC (Never the same color) is capable of in the first place! lol

    Now I will say this. It is much easier to watch a damaged tape, than a
    damaged DVD. I had one tape continue to play even after a part broke off
    and got caught in the tape roller, and a good cleaning fixes most problems.

    Also many discs "rot" on cheapie players where a lot of heat is involved.
    I've had a couple go out on me with such a player. When I finally broke
    down and spent a few bucks on a known brand name, that problem disappeared.
    Also, they're sensitive to handling. I've had some display problem
    described on rotting if I had handled the discs after eating and not washing
    my hands, for example.

    I don't deny that rot is a potential problem, and that is something I'm
    watching for. I'm just trying to bring back a bit of perspective in the
    debate.

    Larry
    Larry G, May 11, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. One-Shot Scot

    Dragon Guest

    my second disc of two towers that I only watched once wont play anymore and
    there's nothing I can do about it, it is in spotless condition as in no
    scratches but just wont play. so is this rot

    Dave

    "One-Shot Scot" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Some in this newsgroup who have not experienced DVD rot continue to
    > ridicule and belittle those who have. My first rotted disk was
    > _Cabaret_, which failed to play only 4 months after I bought it in 1998.
    > Other rotted titles followed, and I reported all of them. Other people
    > reported that they too had experienced DVD Rot, but for the most part,
    > all of us were quickly dismissed as crackpots.
    >
    > Now that the DVD Rot problem has infested more and more disks, DVD Rot
    > articles are becoming more and more common, including a recent one from
    > CNN. If I sound bitter and cynical, it is because I have been
    > mocked and insulted for 6 years for my concerns about DVD Rot. Now, I
    > can tell my detractors, "I told you so!" But my vindication is not a
    > happy one, because, like everyone else on this newsgroup, I too have a
    > collection of DVDs and CDs which is currently rotting away.
    >
    > Some people think that backing up their DVDs and CDs to DVD-R and
    > CD-R disks will protect their investment. According to the CNN article
    > referenced below, ALL optical disks will eventually rot, some much
    > sooner than others. Brand loyalty is a waste of time and money when
    > buying recordable optical disks because manufacturers continually change
    > their materials and manufacturing methods. A slow-rotting brand-name
    > formula might be replaced by a fast-rotting brand-name formula without
    > notice. Let the buyer beware.
    >
    > If you are still living in a dream world and think that DVD and CD Rot
    > is nothing more than an urban legend, don't read this article, it will
    > only upset you:
    >
    > http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/
    >
    >
    Dragon, May 11, 2004
    #3
  4. One-Shot Scot

    TB Guest

    Larry G wrote:

    (snip)

    > I don't deny that rot is a potential problem, and that is something I'm
    > watching for. I'm just trying to bring back a bit of perspective in the
    > debate.


    I agree with what you're saying, but I think many people who are
    concerned about "rot" are pissed more bacause the various mediums (cd,
    laserdisc, dvd) that rot is known to occur were touted as being a
    "lifetime" medium, meaning they'd never suffer any form of deterioration
    and outlast their consumers.

    The small minority of people who are keenly aware of this issue have
    known for years that these types of discs would likely shown some form
    of deterioration anywhere from 5 years to 20 years due to the
    manufacturing process and chemicals used in the lamination of the
    aluminum data disc with the plastic coating. I had a few cds from Europe
    manufactured around '87 turn a spotted copper color on the data side and
    become unplayable within months of their purchase. It was in the mid
    90's when an alarming number of laserdiscs that I was buying were bad
    right out of the sleeve due to so-called rot.

    Simply, a better process to preserve the information needs to be developed.

    T.B.
    TB, May 11, 2004
    #4
  5. On Tue, 11 May 2004 07:12:23 -0700, "One-Shot Scot" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >Now that the DVD Rot problem has infested more and more disks, DVD Rot
    >articles are becoming more and more common, including a recent one from
    >CNN. If I sound bitter and cynical, it is because I have been
    >mocked and insulted for 6 years for my concerns about DVD Rot. Now, I
    >can tell my detractors, "I told you so!" But my vindication is not a
    >happy one, because, like everyone else on this newsgroup, I too have a
    >collection of DVDs and CDs which is currently rotting away.
    >
    >Some people think that backing up their DVDs and CDs to DVD-R and
    >CD-R disks will protect their investment. According to the CNN article
    >referenced below, ALL optical disks will eventually rot, some much
    >sooner than others. Brand loyalty is a waste of time and money when
    >buying recordable optical disks because manufacturers continually change
    >their materials and manufacturing methods. A slow-rotting brand-name
    >formula might be replaced by a fast-rotting brand-name formula without
    >notice. Let the buyer beware.
    >
    >If you are still living in a dream world and think that DVD and CD Rot
    >is nothing more than an urban legend, don't read this article, it will
    >only upset you:
    >
    >http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/
    >


    You know what represents the ultimate irony? I was having a
    discussion with a fellow responsible for the music archives of a major
    label (Sony) and the topic of preservation came up. CDs and CDrs rot,
    tapes decay, Vinyl warps and ridges, and sometimes reacts with the
    sleeve.. you know what has outlasted everything else, including
    preservation safeties? .. 78s. "Shellac" (a misnomer) and laminated
    78 rpm records, as long as they are kept dry and not subject to
    mildew, play as well now as they did when they were pressed 75 years
    ago, and not just masters, but regular consumer pressings. Metal
    parts tend to be more subject to failure however. A massive CDR
    burning project done in the 1980s has been for naught, more than 40%
    of them now have clicks and tracking problems, and they were kept in
    the same atmosphere as the 78 rpm records they were taken from. Even
    digital tape is failing. It's a catastrophe waiting to fully erupt.

    . Steve .
    Steve(JazzHunter), May 11, 2004
    #5
  6. One-Shot Scot

    A C Guest

    Hi all.

    Does anybody know if there is scutch a utility as CHKDSK for CD/DVD.
    It would be nice to get an warning in advance, before the discs reach a
    stage where they can not be recovered.


    One-Shot Scot wrote:

    > Some in this newsgroup who have not experienced DVD rot continue to
    > ridicule and belittle those who have. My first rotted disk was
    > _Cabaret_, which failed to play only 4 months after I bought it in 1998.
    > Other rotted titles followed, and I reported all of them. Other people
    > reported that they too had experienced DVD Rot, but for the most part,
    > all of us were quickly dismissed as crackpots.
    >
    > Now that the DVD Rot problem has infested more and more disks, DVD Rot
    > articles are becoming more and more common, including a recent one from
    > CNN. If I sound bitter and cynical, it is because I have been
    > mocked and insulted for 6 years for my concerns about DVD Rot. Now, I
    > can tell my detractors, "I told you so!" But my vindication is not a
    > happy one, because, like everyone else on this newsgroup, I too have a
    > collection of DVDs and CDs which is currently rotting away.
    >
    > Some people think that backing up their DVDs and CDs to DVD-R and
    > CD-R disks will protect their investment. According to the CNN article
    > referenced below, ALL optical disks will eventually rot, some much
    > sooner than others. Brand loyalty is a waste of time and money when
    > buying recordable optical disks because manufacturers continually change
    > their materials and manufacturing methods. A slow-rotting brand-name
    > formula might be replaced by a fast-rotting brand-name formula without
    > notice. Let the buyer beware.
    >
    > If you are still living in a dream world and think that DVD and CD Rot
    > is nothing more than an urban legend, don't read this article, it will
    > only upset you:
    >
    > http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/
    A C, May 11, 2004
    #6
  7. >My first rotted disk was
    >_Cabaret_, which failed to play only 4 months after I bought it in 1998.
    >Other rotted titles followed, and I reported all of them.


    You just have terrible luck ... or very bad habits.

    >Now that the DVD Rot problem has infested more and more disks, DVD Rot
    >articles are becoming more and more common, including a recent one from
    >CNN.


    I've read the article from CNN almost a week before you mentioned it here.
    It's nothing more than sensationalist clap-trap filled with utter inaccuracies.
    The only thing from the article that made any sense was the quote from the CD
    plant, that almost all cases of so-called defects are caused by user abuse.

    As for the so-called "rotting" that the individual in the article was
    mentioning, the pitting was most likely due to leaving the discs rested on a
    hard surface with the label side facing down. This is bad because granular
    dust or dirt can damage the acrylic lacquer seal layer. The characteristics of
    this particular kind of damage is, guess what, pin holes and scratches that you
    can see light through!

    Another possibility is the climate conditions that the discs were stored in. I
    wouldn't be surprised if the discs were exposed to moisture condensation as a
    result of the unstable temperature flucuations that the storage environment was
    subject to. Water from the condensation can penetrate the thin acrylic lacquer
    seal layer and chemically attack the aluminum reflective substrate.

    >Now, I
    >can tell my detractors, "I told you so!" But my vindication is not a
    >happy one, because, like everyone else on this newsgroup, I too have a
    >collection of DVDs and CDs which is currently rotting away.


    That's strange. All of my discs are perfect. No scratches, no pin holes where
    I can see light through, no peeling, nothing. All they do is play.

    I have LaserDiscs from 1982 that still play perfectly, and they're made in
    basically the exact same manner as CDs and DVDs with only minor differences in
    manufacturing.

    I also have CDs that were originally made in 1986. They still play and are not
    rotting or damaged.

    Then again, I store and handle my discs as I would conventional records.

    >According to the CNN article
    >referenced below, ALL optical disks will eventually rot, some much
    >sooner than others.


    With CDs and DVDs, this is a problem only when you expose the reflective
    substrate to the outside atmosphere, which won't happen unless the disc wasn't
    manufacrtured properly or when you compromise the acrylic lacquer seal.

    With CD-Rs, the difference is when that happens. Most discs, typically those
    made in Taiwan by manufacturers like Ritek and CMC Magnetics for several brand
    names, are garbage. For CD-R archiving, I rely only on Japanese-made Taiyo
    Yuden discs. Those are the only CD-Rs that I can ever trust.

    >Brand loyalty is a waste of time and money when
    >buying recordable optical disks because manufacturers continually change
    >their materials and manufacturing methods.


    The key is to buy discs directly from the source or know how to identify who
    made the discs for a particular brand. Taiyo Yuden makes their own discs and
    have been a 3rd party supplier for Maxell's Pro line of CD-R discs and used to
    supply discs to FujiFilm before Fuji changed to a Taiwanese supplier.

    A basic tip is to find out where the CD-R discs were made. Most are made in
    Taiwan, which are the ones that should be avoided. The few that are made in
    Japan are most likely going to have been made by Taiyo Yuden.

    As another poster mentioned, rot is still a potential problem. However, from
    my understanding of how the technology works and how discs are made, most rot
    defects are almost invariably due to user neglect.
    If the user handles a disc in a way that allows the acrylic lacquer substrate
    to be compromised in anyway, from scratching the label side to bending the disc
    causing hairline cracks in the lacquer, the aluminum will be exposed to oxygen
    from the outside which will chemically attack and cause oxidation to the
    aluminum reflective substrate, which is essentially what laser rot is. -
    Reinhart
    LASERandDVDfan, May 11, 2004
    #7
  8. > had a few cds from Europe
    >manufactured around '87 turn a spotted copper color on the data side and
    >become unplayable within months of their purchase.


    I'll bet those discs were made by Philips-DuPont Optical. They were perhaps
    the worst CD replicators, very much like how Technidisc was the worst LD
    replicators in the United States since MCA DiscoVision.

    >Simply, a better process to preserve the information needs to be developed.


    The best way is to simply eliminate the use of aluminum in making the
    reflective substrate and to go with a metal that is less prone to chemical
    attack and oxidation. Unfortunately, the metals to where this characteristic
    exists are usually precious metals, like gold.

    Another possible solution is to make discs with a thicker layer of acrylic for
    the lacquer seal.

    For LaserDisc rot, the rotting problem is usually due to a problem with the
    formulation of the adhesive used to join two discs halves together. If the
    formula isn't right and if the process of joining two discs halves isn't
    perfect, you will have problems with inclusion artifacts and laser rot. With
    LaserDisc, if the adhesive contains chemicals that can penetrate the lacquer,
    it will chemically attack the aluminum substrate. If the joining of two discs
    halves is done with foreign matter caught in between, you will have problems.
    If the joining of the two disc halves is not done carefully, you will have air
    bubbles that can eventually penetrate the lacquer and chemically attack the
    aluminum. This may also be a potential problem with dual sided DVDs since they
    are made in essentially the same way. However, the size of DVD discs in
    comparison to LaserDiscs reduces the complexity somewhat, plus you have error
    correction in the digital encoding along with a block sector formatting
    strategy which can help to counter quite a few potential manufacturing defects
    while LaserDiscs are linear FM analogue with no corrections to account for bad
    manufacturing. However, manufacturing must still be conducted carefully and
    under clean room conditions to reduce the risk of defective yields.

    But, in regards to CDs and DVDs that are not dual-sided, this particular
    problem does not exist. However, problems in making the lacquer seal can cause
    problems with rotting in the future. However, most cases of rot in this manner
    are due to abusive handling. It does not take much to damage the lacquer seal
    to where the aluminum can be exposed to the outside atmosphere. The suggestion
    to handle CDs and DVDs like conventional records, giving equal consideration to
    both sides of the disc, is one of the greatest measures of prevention to keep
    your discs working. - Reinhart
    LASERandDVDfan, May 11, 2004
    #8
  9. >my second disc of two towers that I only watched once wont play anymore and
    >there's nothing I can do about it, it is in spotless condition as in no
    >scratches but just wont play. so is this rot


    What player are you using?

    Also, did you ever rest the disc with the label side facing downward against a
    hard surface?

    Check the lacquer layer for damage by looking at the disc through a light. If
    you can see light through pits and scratches, the lacquer has sustained damage.
    - Reinhart
    LASERandDVDfan, May 11, 2004
    #9
  10. Digital is still, IMO, preferred for preservation.

    Unlike analogue, where generational loss is a problem, a digital master can be
    transferred through a bit-by-bit read to a digital backup. Before the
    expiration of digital media, you can make essentially perfect digital backups.

    As for failing digital tape, the reason for failure is simple: it's magnetic
    tape. Tapes use a chemical binder to join the magnetic media to the plastic
    tape, much like chemical film on photographic filmstrips, and binders are known
    to fail simply from age, also like the film on filmstrips. When the binder
    deteriorates, it's the same problem as old videotapes. The binder can flake
    off the plastic tape or even have a mold infestation if the storage conditions
    were poor.

    As for 78s, they were made using rigid and stable materials. As you've said,
    as long as the storage conditions are good and stable, they won't deteriorate
    as quickly.

    As for consumer CDs and DVDs that were press replicated (not burned). I am
    still convinced that the main cause of problems is due to user neglect. Look
    through the collections of any average person and it's likely that almost all
    of their discs are damaged in one way or another. All it takes is one small
    nick on the thinner-than-human-hair lacquer layer to expose the aluminum
    substrate to the outside air, causing deterioration that will only get worse as
    time goes on. - Reinhart
    LASERandDVDfan, May 11, 2004
    #10
  11. One-Shot Scot

    Dragon Guest

    no watched it once put it back in case and away safely no putting down on
    hard surface as it was in the dvd case with the other three discs and they
    play great, come to watch the other week and nothing on the same dvd that I
    originally watched some time ago. also tried it on two other machines and
    nothing and the pc wont even read it

    Dave

    "LASERandDVDfan" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >my second disc of two towers that I only watched once wont play anymore

    and
    > >there's nothing I can do about it, it is in spotless condition as in no
    > >scratches but just wont play. so is this rot

    >
    > What player are you using?
    >
    > Also, did you ever rest the disc with the label side facing downward

    against a
    > hard surface?
    >
    > Check the lacquer layer for damage by looking at the disc through a light.

    If
    > you can see light through pits and scratches, the lacquer has sustained

    damage.
    > - Reinhart
    Dragon, May 11, 2004
    #11
  12. One-Shot Scot

    kaboom Guest

    On 11 May 2004 19:51:50 GMT, (LASERandDVDfan)
    wrote:

    <snipped>
    >With CD-Rs, the difference is when that happens. Most discs, typically those
    >made in Taiwan by manufacturers like Ritek and CMC Magnetics for several brand
    >names, are garbage. For CD-R archiving, I rely only on Japanese-made Taiyo
    >Yuden discs. Those are the only CD-Rs that I can ever trust.


    **Hi Reinhart. I have a few questions for you, if you don't mind :)
    Where do you buy Taiyo Yuden discs? Have you ever used Mitsui? I was
    surfing around and thought I had read that an Italian company had
    bought Mitsui (or at least the part that makes the discs). I was
    wondering if the Mitsui (or Mam-a) are still retaining their good
    reputation. I want to archive some music (some rare discs) and video
    items (put to DVD) but have been stumped as to what discs to use.
    Almost everything available in stores is manufactured in Taiwan.

    >The key is to buy discs directly from the source or know how to identify who
    >made the discs for a particular brand. Taiyo Yuden makes their own discs and
    >have been a 3rd party supplier for Maxell's Pro line of CD-R discs and used to
    >supply discs to FujiFilm before Fuji changed to a Taiwanese supplier.
    >
    >A basic tip is to find out where the CD-R discs were made. Most are made in
    >Taiwan, which are the ones that should be avoided. The few that are made in
    >Japan are most likely going to have been made by Taiyo Yuden.


    **It's kind of defeating, just trying to find a disc (whether it be
    CD-R or DVR-R) that you hope won't crap out on you a few years down
    the road. I believe there is a program available (maybe on dvdrhelp)
    that will identify the maker of the disc. Do you make DVD-Rs? If so,
    what kind of disc do you use for those?

    >As another poster mentioned, rot is still a potential problem. However, from
    >my understanding of how the technology works and how discs are made, most rot
    >defects are almost invariably due to user neglect.
    >If the user handles a disc in a way that allows the acrylic lacquer substrate
    >to be compromised in anyway, from scratching the label side to bending the disc
    >causing hairline cracks in the lacquer, the aluminum will be exposed to oxygen
    >from the outside which will chemically attack and cause oxidation to the
    >aluminum reflective substrate, which is essentially what laser rot is. -


    **I read a post in this newsgroup where someone said that DVD rot is
    quite often brought on by user neglect. He made the point that
    sometimes straining to pull the disc out of the case sometimes will
    even do it. I remembered having had terrible time getting the movie
    "Bound" out of the case. I dug it out and put it into the player and
    it didn't even register. I threw it away and re-bought the movie. I'm
    tempted to recheck most of my movies. I'm usually very careful but I
    distinctly remember that disc being a real pain-in-the-ass to get out.
    Do you still store your DVDs in their cases or do you store them in,
    for instance, a DVD-album? I was thinking of putting them in some CD
    cases, it's far easier to get CDs out of their cases.


    kaboomie
    kaboom, May 11, 2004
    #12
  13. One-Shot Scot

    jayembee Guest

    (LASERandDVDfan) wrote:

    >>My first rotted disk was _Cabaret_, which failed to play only 4 months after
    >>I bought it in 1998. Other rotted titles followed, and I reported all of them.

    >
    >You just have terrible luck ... or very bad habits.

    [...]
    >>Now, I can tell my detractors, "I told you so!" But my vindication is not a
    >>happy one, because, like everyone else on this newsgroup, I too have a
    >>collection of DVDs and CDs which is currently rotting away.


    From my perspective, Scott, I never ridiculed your reports of rot. But
    I have on a couple of occasions when this subject came up, reported
    that my discs have not rotted. Even specific titles that you've
    reported, I've checked, and not one of them exhibited any signs of
    rot.

    Which makes me inclined to agree with Reinhart that you either have
    bad luck or bad habits.

    >That's strange. All of my discs are perfect. No scratches, no pin holes where
    >I can see light through, no peeling, nothing. All they do is play.


    Same here.

    >I have LaserDiscs from 1982 that still play perfectly, and they're made in
    >basically the exact same manner as CDs and DVDs with only minor differences in
    >manufacturing.


    Same here. As I've mentioned numerous times in the LD newsgroup, the
    incidence of LD rot in my collection has been minimal, even with
    titles that are notorious rotters.

    >I also have CDs that were originally made in 1986. They still play and are
    >not rotting or damaged.


    At the risk of repeating myself, same here.

    >Then again, I store and handle my discs as I would conventional records.


    And what's odd is...I don't. Which is to say that while I don't
    "abuse" my discs, and do handle them with a reasonable amount of care,
    I don't treat them like glass antiques, nor do I go to any lengths to
    keep them in a temperature- and humidity-controlled environment.

    -- jayembee
    jayembee, May 12, 2004
    #13
  14. One-Shot Scot

    Jordan Lund Guest

    "One-Shot Scot" <> wrote in message news:<>...

    > Some in this newsgroup who have not experienced DVD rot continue to
    > ridicule and belittle those who have.


    I can only speak from personal experience, my first CD (Billy Joel's
    Glass Houses) still works fine and it's going on 20 years old now. No
    sign of wear, age or rot. I'm not going to say people are imagining
    that their discs are unplayable, but I will say that either poor
    handling over time is the issue or minor disc defects that are not
    noticed on one player but are noticed on others.

    - Jordan
    Jordan Lund, May 12, 2004
    #14
  15. One-Shot Scot

    Jordan Lund Guest

    "Dragon" <> wrote in message news:<Iz6oc.320$>...
    > my second disc of two towers that I only watched once wont play anymore and
    > there's nothing I can do about it, it is in spotless condition as in no
    > scratches but just wont play. so is this rot


    Rot is visible on the disc. Have you tried it on another player?

    - Jordan
    Jordan Lund, May 12, 2004
    #15
  16. One-Shot Scot

    Stan Brown Guest

    "LASERandDVDfan" <> wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    >With CD-Rs, the difference is when that happens. Most discs, typically those
    >made in Taiwan by manufacturers like Ritek and CMC Magnetics for several brand
    >names, are garbage.


    Which brand names?

    > For CD-R archiving, I rely only on Japanese-made Taiyo
    >Yuden discs. Those are the only CD-Rs that I can ever trust.


    How are they labeled in the store?

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com
    DVD FAQ: http://dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html
    other FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm
    Stan Brown, May 12, 2004
    #16
  17. One-Shot Scot

    DigitalDeude Guest

    I have about 30 CD's from the mid to late 80's, they all work fine for me.

    Jordan Lund wrote:

    > "One-Shot Scot" <> wrote in message news:<>...
    >
    >
    >>Some in this newsgroup who have not experienced DVD rot continue to
    >>ridicule and belittle those who have.

    >
    >
    > I can only speak from personal experience, my first CD (Billy Joel's
    > Glass Houses) still works fine and it's going on 20 years old now. No
    > sign of wear, age or rot. I'm not going to say people are imagining
    > that their discs are unplayable, but I will say that either poor
    > handling over time is the issue or minor disc defects that are not
    > noticed on one player but are noticed on others.
    >
    > - Jordan
    DigitalDeude, May 12, 2004
    #17
  18. One-Shot Scot

    luminos Guest

    "LASERandDVDfan" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > > had a few cds from Europe
    > >manufactured around '87 turn a spotted copper color on the data side and
    > >become unplayable within months of their purchase.

    >
    > I'll bet those discs were made by Philips-DuPont Optical. They were

    perhaps
    > the worst CD replicators, very much like how Technidisc was the worst LD
    > replicators in the United States since MCA DiscoVision.
    >
    > >Simply, a better process to preserve the information needs to be

    developed.
    >
    > The best way is to simply eliminate the use of aluminum in making the
    > reflective substrate and to go with a metal that is less prone to chemical
    > attack and oxidation. Unfortunately, the metals to where this

    characteristic
    > exists are usually precious metals, like gold.
    >
    > Another possible solution is to make discs with a thicker layer of acrylic

    for
    > the lacquer seal.


    Not possible. The tolerences are already alarmingly fine.
    luminos, May 12, 2004
    #18
  19. One-Shot Scot

    luminos Guest

    "LASERandDVDfan" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Digital is still, IMO, preferred for preservation.


    No professional archivist would agree.
    luminos, May 12, 2004
    #19
  20. >> Digital is still, IMO, preferred for preservation.
    >
    >No professional archivist would agree.
    >


    And why not?

    There is a grave misconception on how digital encoding works.

    At it's core, it's really nothing more than another way to encode, store,
    retrieve, and reproduce information. In concept, it's no different from other
    methods. In execution, it's more robust, far simpler, and less prone to
    interference.

    At any rate, with audiovisual elements, there will always be loss of
    information no matter how you encode it, when turning it into a binary sequence
    or converting it from a sound wave to mechanical approximations on an LP.

    Technically, digital encoding is least damaging because it deals with an
    accurate mathematical model in recreating the information as opposed to a
    dynamic (read: variable) interpretation of what the information is supposed to
    be in analogue encoding. - Reinhart
    LASERandDVDfan, May 12, 2004
    #20
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