DVB-S or DVB-T ?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by XPD, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. XPD

    XPD Guest

    Setting up a media box at the moment, and looking at TV cards for it....
    something along lines of WinTV-HVR 1100 (which is DVB-T and analogue)

    Is there any other benefit apart from potential HD content with the DVB-T
    service (when it arrives) over the DVB-S ?
    Im not running on a LCD/Plasma TV anyway.....

    Anything else I should watch out for on a TV card these days ? (havent
    looked at them for ages :) )

    TIA :)
    XPD, Jul 3, 2007
    #1
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  2. XPD

    RL Guest

    XPD wrote:
    > Setting up a media box at the moment, and looking at TV cards for it....
    > something along lines of WinTV-HVR 1100 (which is DVB-T and analogue)
    >
    > Is there any other benefit apart from potential HD content with the DVB-T
    > service (when it arrives) over the DVB-S ?
    > Im not running on a LCD/Plasma TV anyway.....


    DVB-T will likely feature regional content and Prime TV. I personally
    don't care of Prime is on Freeview or not, but Sky should at the very
    least unencrypt Prime on their satellite service, so people with DVB-S
    receivers can get it.

    > Anything else I should watch out for on a TV card these days ? (havent
    > looked at them for ages :) )


    If you want to record multiple channels off one transponder, the budget
    cards are usually better as they can output the entire transport stream.
    Not currently supported by most software, Mediaportal can do this however.

    DVB-S cards are not supported by Windows Media Centre Edition, but I
    believe at least one of the Hauppauge cards can appear to MCE as a DVB-T
    card.

    <rant>

    Freeview stuffed up IMO. There is no way Freeview via DVB-S is going to
    reach 18 channels anytime soon, they will mostly have two under-utilised
    transponders for the next decade. They should have planned for HD
    migration on the satellite service as well. Fortunately, all is not
    lost, they can still do it, the question is, will they?

    It makes more sense to use existing capacity for HD, and add a new
    transponder later if needed, than it does to use a dedicated one.

    Right now they have only certified boxes supporting SD, which means they
    are stuck with the SD channels, in addition to any HD version of the
    same channel. Presumably the broadcasters would end up paying for both,
    and they are most likely locked in to long term agreements to provide
    the SD service. Still, the capacity is there, and as Sky has proven, you
    can reduce the bitrate on your SD channels to the bare minimum, and
    people will still watch. Despite going with DVB-S and not DVBS-2, HD is
    still an option. People have to buy a new set top box for terrestial
    anyway, now is the time for Freeview to set the record straght and fix
    their mistakes by adding HD alongside the existing SD broadcast, for
    broadcasters who want it, and customers who are willing to pay for it,
    before it ends up costing people more money, which it will in the long run.

    The impression I get is they want to make Freeview idiot proof, so they
    can say "Go to Channel 20 on Freeview", and avoid people having to tune
    their own boxes. Sky can do this because they have firmware control over
    all their boxes remotely, doing this on a FTA television service is just
    plain idiotic, as it limits future options.

    </rant>

    - RL
    RL, Jul 4, 2007
    #2
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  3. XPD

    Mutlley Guest

    RL <> wrote:

    >XPD wrote:
    >> Setting up a media box at the moment, and looking at TV cards for it....
    >> something along lines of WinTV-HVR 1100 (which is DVB-T and analogue)
    >>
    >> Is there any other benefit apart from potential HD content with the DVB-T
    >> service (when it arrives) over the DVB-S ?
    >> Im not running on a LCD/Plasma TV anyway.....

    >
    >DVB-T will likely feature regional content and Prime TV. I personally
    >don't care of Prime is on Freeview or not, but Sky should at the very
    >least unencrypt Prime on their satellite service, so people with DVB-S
    >receivers can get it.
    >
    >> Anything else I should watch out for on a TV card these days ? (havent
    >> looked at them for ages :) )

    >
    >If you want to record multiple channels off one transponder, the budget
    >cards are usually better as they can output the entire transport stream.
    >Not currently supported by most software, Mediaportal can do this however.
    >
    >DVB-S cards are not supported by Windows Media Centre Edition, but I
    >believe at least one of the Hauppauge cards can appear to MCE as a DVB-T
    >card.
    >
    ><rant>
    >
    >Freeview stuffed up IMO. There is no way Freeview via DVB-S is going to
    >reach 18 channels anytime soon, they will mostly have two under-utilised
    >transponders for the next decade. They should have planned for HD
    >migration on the satellite service as well. Fortunately, all is not
    >lost, they can still do it, the question is, will they?
    >
    >It makes more sense to use existing capacity for HD, and add a new
    >transponder later if needed, than it does to use a dedicated one.
    >
    >Right now they have only certified boxes supporting SD, which means they
    >are stuck with the SD channels, in addition to any HD version of the
    >same channel. Presumably the broadcasters would end up paying for both,
    >and they are most likely locked in to long term agreements to provide
    >the SD service. Still, the capacity is there, and as Sky has proven, you
    >can reduce the bitrate on your SD channels to the bare minimum, and
    >people will still watch. Despite going with DVB-S and not DVBS-2, HD is
    >still an option. People have to buy a new set top box for terrestial
    >anyway, now is the time for Freeview to set the record straght and fix
    >their mistakes by adding HD alongside the existing SD broadcast, for
    >broadcasters who want it, and customers who are willing to pay for it,
    >before it ends up costing people more money, which it will in the long run.
    >
    >The impression I get is they want to make Freeview idiot proof, so they
    >can say "Go to Channel 20 on Freeview", and avoid people having to tune
    >their own boxes. Sky can do this because they have firmware control over
    >all their boxes remotely, doing this on a FTA television service is just
    >plain idiotic, as it limits future options.
    >
    ></rant>
    >
    >- RL


    I seem to remember Freeview saying that there will be no HD on the
    DVB-S system any time soon so I would plug for the DVB-T as we should
    get HD here by this time next year if the new owners of the Canwest
    network don't become bean counters..
    Mutlley, Jul 4, 2007
    #3
  4. XPD

    Steven Ellis Guest

    On Jul 4, 1:01 pm, Mutlley <> wrote:
    > RL <> wrote:
    > >XPD wrote:
    > >> Setting up a media box at the moment, and looking at TV cards for it....
    > >> something along lines of WinTV-HVR 1100 (which is DVB-T and analogue)

    >
    > >> Is there any other benefit apart from potential HD content with the DVB-T
    > >> service (when it arrives) over the DVB-S ?
    > >> Im not running on a LCD/Plasma TV anyway.....

    >
    > >DVB-T will likely feature regional content and Prime TV. I personally
    > >don't care of Prime is on Freeview or not, but Sky should at the very
    > >least unencrypt Prime on their satellite service, so people with DVB-S
    > >receivers can get it.

    >
    > >> Anything else I should watch out for on a TV card these days ? (havent
    > >> looked at them for ages :) )

    >
    > >If you want to record multiple channels off one transponder, the budget
    > >cards are usually better as they can output the entire transport stream.
    > >Not currently supported by most software, Mediaportal can do this however.

    >
    > >DVB-S cards are not supported by Windows Media Centre Edition, but I
    > >believe at least one of the Hauppauge cards can appear to MCE as a DVB-T
    > >card.

    >
    > ><rant>

    >
    > >Freeview stuffed up IMO. There is no way Freeview via DVB-S is going to
    > >reach 18 channels anytime soon, they will mostly have two under-utilised
    > >transponders for the next decade. They should have planned for HD
    > >migration on the satellite service as well. Fortunately, all is not
    > >lost, they can still do it, the question is, will they?

    >
    > >It makes more sense to use existing capacity for HD, and add a new
    > >transponder later if needed, than it does to use a dedicated one.

    >
    > >Right now they have only certified boxes supporting SD, which means they
    > >are stuck with the SD channels, in addition to any HD version of the
    > >same channel. Presumably the broadcasters would end up paying for both,
    > >and they are most likely locked in to long term agreements to provide
    > >the SD service. Still, the capacity is there, and as Sky has proven, you
    > >can reduce the bitrate on your SD channels to the bare minimum, and
    > >people will still watch. Despite going with DVB-S and not DVBS-2, HD is
    > >still an option. People have to buy a new set top box for terrestial
    > >anyway, now is the time for Freeview to set the record straght and fix
    > >their mistakes by adding HD alongside the existing SD broadcast, for
    > >broadcasters who want it, and customers who are willing to pay for it,
    > >before it ends up costing people more money, which it will in the long run.

    >
    > >The impression I get is they want to make Freeview idiot proof, so they
    > >can say "Go to Channel 20 on Freeview", and avoid people having to tune
    > >their own boxes. Sky can do this because they have firmware control over
    > >all their boxes remotely, doing this on a FTA television service is just
    > >plain idiotic, as it limits future options.

    >
    > ></rant>

    >
    > >- RL

    >
    > I seem to remember Freeview saying that there will be no HD on the
    > DVB-S system any time soon so I would plug for the DVB-T as we should
    > get HD here by this time next year if the new owners of the Canwest
    > network don't become bean counters..



    Freeview won't do HD on DVB-S until Sky do HD. Not a good idea to use
    different standards. Also DVB-S2 might require a new bird and possibly
    a different orbital position.

    Not eveyone who currently gets terrestrial tv will get DVB-T anyway.
    The mark is how good is your existing prime reception, and are you
    covered by the map at freeviewnz.tv.
    Steven Ellis, Jul 4, 2007
    #4
  5. XPD

    RL Guest

    Steven Ellis wrote:
    > On Jul 4, 1:01 pm, Mutlley <> wrote:
    > Freeview won't do HD on DVB-S until Sky do HD. Not a good idea to use
    > different standards. Also DVB-S2 might require a new bird and possibly
    > a different orbital position.


    Why should Freeview be following the standards adopted by Sky? That is a
    load of nonsense. Sky will make their decisions based on a variety of
    commercial factors, including the ability to bulk-buy set top boxes for
    which they will make a huge profit on over the lifetime of the unit.

    Freeview on the other hand needs to select technology that will be
    available economically so people can purchase it, from a variety of
    different sources, including approved boxes. When Freeview announced
    late last year that DVB-T would be MPEG4-based, and support HD, they
    were betting on an increase in production, and reduced costs to consumers.

    DVB-S2 is now being deployed around the world, Freeview could have done
    the same thing with the satellite service instead of rushing to launch.
    That said, I personally favour HD over DVB-S, because it provides for SD
    content now, and HD content in the future.

    Freeview should at least have a plan for future HD content via
    satellite, but right now it looks to me like they simply took taxpayer
    money, rushed the satellite service in to production (which is actually
    less useful than it was when they were testing it), just so they could
    report back to the government that they'd achieved something. Nevermind
    that they aren't disclosing the fact that the service will be obsolete
    within 12 months.

    > Not eveyone who currently gets terrestrial tv will get DVB-T anyway.
    > The mark is how good is your existing prime reception, and are you
    > covered by the map at freeviewnz.tv.


    My Prime is shocking. If you read the Freeview site, it tells people to
    go with DVB-S if their UHF reception is not good. Sadly, it fails to
    mention in making this recommendation, that DVB-S is going to be an
    inferior service. Chances are, getting someone out to fix your UHF
    reception is going to be a better investment than a satellite dish for
    most people in that situation.

    - RL
    RL, Jul 4, 2007
    #5
  6. In message <>, Steven
    Ellis wrote:

    > Not a good idea to use different standards.


    Why not? It's all digital. Look at your PC media players, and the number of
    formats they have to cope with--why can't your digital video equipment cope
    with a small fraction of the same sort of thing?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jul 4, 2007
    #6
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