Dust on sensor

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes, Feb 27, 2007.

  1. I use to clean my sensor whenever I detect dust on it (I use to shoot a
    picture of the sky using F 22).

    Now I got a small dark spot on the picture which I'm not able to remove. I
    have use sensor brush and sensor clean several times, but I cannot see any
    change in the spot (while I can see other spots comes and goes).

    Can this be a permanent damage on the sensor or the glass covering the
    sensor?

    --
    Jørn Dahl-Stamnes
    http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/dahls/
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes, Feb 27, 2007
    #1
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  2. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes

    Savageduck Guest

    Jørn Dahl-Stamnes wrote:
    > I use to clean my sensor whenever I detect dust on it (I use to shoot a
    > picture of the sky using F 22).
    >
    > Now I got a small dark spot on the picture which I'm not able to remove. I
    > have use sensor brush and sensor clean several times, but I cannot see any
    > change in the spot (while I can see other spots comes and goes).
    >
    > Can this be a permanent damage on the sensor or the glass covering the
    > sensor?
    >

    Sometimes dust on the low pass filter (the protective glass in front of
    the sensor) is fixed and cannot be moved with a brush. Here is when you
    will have to resort to a wet cleaning technique. Just use the right
    tools. Even so you might have to repeat several times to remove really
    persistent spots.
    You might need to check and clean your lenses and any filters you might
    be using for spots.
    A permanent mark on the low pass filter is not likely unless there is
    something you are not telling us regarding your working environment.
    Anyway here are a few URLs for cleaning tools and information.


    http://www.cleaningdigitalcameras.com/
    http://www.photosol.com/
    http://www.kinetronics.com/
    http://www.2filter.com/prices/products/eclipse.html
    https://www.micro-tools.com/store/home.aspx
    http://www.visibledust.com/products.php

    Good luck,
    'Duck
     
    Savageduck, Feb 27, 2007
    #2
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  3. On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 09:47:00 +0100, in rec.photo.digital Jørn Dahl-Stamnes
    <> wrote:

    >I use to clean my sensor whenever I detect dust on it (I use to shoot a
    >picture of the sky using F 22).
    >
    >Now I got a small dark spot on the picture which I'm not able to remove. I
    >have use sensor brush and sensor clean several times, but I cannot see any
    >change in the spot (while I can see other spots comes and goes).
    >
    >Can this be a permanent damage on the sensor or the glass covering the
    >sensor?


    I'd go with the wet technique as suggested by the Duck. One thing to
    remember is the orientation of the image if flipped from that of the
    sensor. So first try to visually locate the spot on the AA filter, then try
    a wet cleaning method to remove.
    --
    Ed Ruf ()
    http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
     
    Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!), Feb 27, 2007
    #3
  4. Savageduck wrote:

    > Jørn Dahl-Stamnes wrote:
    >> I use to clean my sensor whenever I detect dust on it (I use to shoot a
    >> picture of the sky using F 22).
    >>
    >> Now I got a small dark spot on the picture which I'm not able to remove.
    >> I have use sensor brush and sensor clean several times, but I cannot see
    >> any change in the spot (while I can see other spots comes and goes).
    >>
    >> Can this be a permanent damage on the sensor or the glass covering the
    >> sensor?
    >>

    > Sometimes dust on the low pass filter (the protective glass in front of
    > the sensor) is fixed and cannot be moved with a brush. Here is when you
    > will have to resort to a wet cleaning technique. Just use the right
    > tools. Even so you might have to repeat several times to remove really
    > persistent spots.


    I have used a wet cleaing technique several times. No changes. I tried it
    just now and this time I did not blow away any dust that may have come on
    the sensor during the cleaning. I could see that there was new dust spot
    near the problem spot, but the new spot was more diffuse. It's like the
    problem spot is closer to the sensor.

    I'm not sure but I have a feeling that the dust particle is under the glass
    covering the sensor. Tell me that it is not possible, or?

    > You might need to check and clean your lenses and any filters you might
    > be using for spots.


    I have tried different lenses. I use to shoot i manual focus against the sky
    (currently very grey).

    > A permanent mark on the low pass filter is not likely unless there is
    > something you are not telling us regarding your working environment.


    What kind of working environment could cause problem? I have been using the
    camera outside belowe 0 C. But I always wrap it in a plastig bag before
    taking it inside, leaving it in the bag for hours.

    > Anyway here are a few URLs for cleaning tools and information.
    >
    >
    > http://www.cleaningdigitalcameras.com/
    > http://www.photosol.com/
    > http://www.kinetronics.com/
    > http://www.2filter.com/prices/products/eclipse.html
    > https://www.micro-tools.com/store/home.aspx
    > http://www.visibledust.com/products.php


    I got my cleaing tools from visibledust.com

    > Good luck,


    Thanks.
    --
    Jørn Dahl-Stamnes
    http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/dahls/
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes, Feb 27, 2007
    #4
  5. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes

    ray Guest

    On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 09:47:00 +0100, Jørn Dahl-Stamnes wrote:

    > I use to clean my sensor whenever I detect dust on it (I use to shoot a
    > picture of the sky using F 22).
    >
    > Now I got a small dark spot on the picture which I'm not able to remove. I
    > have use sensor brush and sensor clean several times, but I cannot see any
    > change in the spot (while I can see other spots comes and goes).
    >
    > Can this be a permanent damage on the sensor or the glass covering the
    > sensor?


    How small? Could it be a dead pixel?
     
    ray, Feb 27, 2007
    #5
  6. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes

    Savageduck Guest

    ray wrote:
    > On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 09:47:00 +0100, Jørn Dahl-Stamnes wrote:
    >
    >> I use to clean my sensor whenever I detect dust on it (I use to shoot a
    >> picture of the sky using F 22).
    >>
    >> Now I got a small dark spot on the picture which I'm not able to remove. I
    >> have use sensor brush and sensor clean several times, but I cannot see any
    >> change in the spot (while I can see other spots comes and goes).
    >>
    >> Can this be a permanent damage on the sensor or the glass covering the
    >> sensor?

    >
    > How small? Could it be a dead pixel?
    >

    The likelihood of a dead pixel on the sensor is very remote, this is
    more of a problem for the LCD. A dead pixel or other non-functioning
    area on the sensor will not have the easily diagnosed dust signature on
    the image, and if it were a dead pixel given even say a 6 meg sensor it
    would be almost impossible to see.

    I agree with Ed, with good lighting try and visually identify the spot
    on the low pass filter and use a little more aggressive wet technique on
    the area, follow up with a standard cleaning. If this does not work you
    probably have a problem behind the filter and need to get your camera to
    a professional for repair. (warranty??)

    You have one other option; Live with it and understand trying to
    maintain a "clean room" perfect sensor in the real World is not always
    productive. As frustrating as it can be to find that spot in an
    otherwise "perfect" shot, the beauty of digital is having the ability to
    fix things with the editing software of your choice. (I lean towards PS CS2)
    For those big sky and snow field shots dust can be annoying, but when
    the dust is in textured areas can be barely noticeable.

    Good luck,
    'Duck
     
    Savageduck, Feb 27, 2007
    #6
  7. Savageduck wrote:

    > ray wrote:
    >> How small? Could it be a dead pixel?


    No, I can see a photon or two behind the pixel ;-)

    > The likelihood of a dead pixel on the sensor is very remote, this is
    > more of a problem for the LCD. A dead pixel or other non-functioning
    > area on the sensor will not have the easily diagnosed dust signature on
    > the image, and if it were a dead pixel given even say a 6 meg sensor it
    > would be almost impossible to see.
    >
    > I agree with Ed, with good lighting try and visually identify the spot
    > on the low pass filter and use a little more aggressive wet technique on
    > the area, follow up with a standard cleaning. If this does not work you
    > probably have a problem behind the filter and need to get your camera to
    > a professional for repair. (warranty??)


    I have tried that. I have used a cleaning agent from Visible Dust several
    times. No luck. The dust look exactly the same as before I began cleaning
    the sensor.

    What is the chance that the dust may be behind the filter? The sensor should
    be sealed. But then, that could be broken.

    > You have one other option; Live with it and understand trying to
    > maintain a "clean room" perfect sensor in the real World is not always
    > productive. As frustrating as it can be to find that spot in an
    > otherwise "perfect" shot, the beauty of digital is having the ability to
    > fix things with the editing software of your choice. (I lean towards PS
    > CS2) For those big sky and snow field shots dust can be annoying, but when
    > the dust is in textured areas can be barely noticeable.


    It's hard to just leave it. Try ask an alcoholic to just forget about the
    bottle of gin on the table in front of him...

    The dust is located where the sky will be on landscape pictures. Editing one
    or two picture that is really good, is OK. But if the spot starts to get
    annoying on a lot of pictures, this option is not very good for me.

    Perhaps I must buy a new house to replace my 30D... perhaps a Mk III ??? ;-)

    --
    Jørn Dahl-Stamnes
    http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/dahls/
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes, Feb 27, 2007
    #7
  8. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes

    Savageduck Guest

    Jørn Dahl-Stamnes wrote:

    >
    > Perhaps I must buy a new house to replace my 30D... perhaps a Mk III ??? ;-)
    >


    Well I guess the good news is this is a great opportunity to satisfy any
    new camera envy (or lust) you might have developed since your last
    purchase. Then your options are keep the old body as a spare, trade up,
    sell on EBay, gift it to a deserving recipient or use it as an anchor.
    I am sure you have been looking for the excuse to open your wallet for
    the (please excuse the suggestive implication here) body you desire.
    I have a feeling that by this time tomorrow you are going to be using a
    "cleaner" newer camera.
    Good luck,
    'Duck
     
    Savageduck, Feb 27, 2007
    #8
  9. Savageduck wrote:

    > Jørn Dahl-Stamnes wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Perhaps I must buy a new house to replace my 30D... perhaps a Mk III ???
    >> ;-)
    >>

    >
    > Well I guess the good news is this is a great opportunity to satisfy any
    > new camera envy (or lust) you might have developed since your last
    > purchase. Then your options are keep the old body as a spare, trade up,
    > sell on EBay, gift it to a deserving recipient or use it as an anchor.
    > I am sure you have been looking for the excuse to open your wallet for
    > the (please excuse the suggestive implication here) body you desire.
    > I have a feeling that by this time tomorrow you are going to be using a
    > "cleaner" newer camera.


    You gave me a good laugh :)
    The bad thing is that then MkIII is not available yet. I have to wait at
    least a month or so.

    Money...? When it comes to investment in photo equipment, who cares about
    money... ;-)

    --
    Jørn Dahl-Stamnes
    http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/dahls/
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes, Feb 27, 2007
    #9
  10. "Jørn Dahl-Stamnes" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I use to clean my sensor whenever I detect dust on it (I use to shoot a
    > picture of the sky using F 22).
    >
    > Now I got a small dark spot on the picture which I'm not able to remove. I
    > have use sensor brush and sensor clean several times, but I cannot see any
    > change in the spot (while I can see other spots comes and goes).
    >


    After reading all of the posts and your replies I suspect that moisture
    might have entered the gap between the IR filter and the AA filter.

    If you can live without your camera for a week, buy some good desiccant and
    seal the camera, with no lens mounted, into a tight jar along with lots of
    desiccant. It might even take a month, but if it is trapped moisture it
    could work (and then again, it might not).

    Or, go for that 30D or 7D or .... (we just love excuses to upgrade).
     
    Charles Schuler, Feb 27, 2007
    #10
  11. Jørn Dahl-Stamnes wrote:

    > I have tried that. I have used a cleaning agent from Visible Dust
    > several times. No luck. The dust look exactly the same as before I
    > began cleaning the sensor.


    One suggestion you might want to try. Take a Pec-Pad and add one drop of
    distilled water to the pad and hit the sensor this. This hopefully will
    dissolve what the cleaning agent (methanol) didn't. Methanol doesn't
    dissolve everything water can. Once this is done follow with a new Pec-Pad
    with he cleaning agent and this should do it.






    Rita
     
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=, Feb 27, 2007
    #11
  12. In article <>,
    "Charles Schuler" <> wrote:

    > "Jørn Dahl-Stamnes" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >I use to clean my sensor whenever I detect dust on it (I use to shoot a
    > > picture of the sky using F 22).
    > >
    > > Now I got a small dark spot on the picture which I'm not able to remove. I
    > > have use sensor brush and sensor clean several times, but I cannot see any
    > > change in the spot (while I can see other spots comes and goes).
    > >

    >
    > After reading all of the posts and your replies I suspect that moisture
    > might have entered the gap between the IR filter and the AA filter.
    >
    > If you can live without your camera for a week, buy some good desiccant and
    > seal the camera, with no lens mounted, into a tight jar along with lots of
    > desiccant. It might even take a month, but if it is trapped moisture it
    > could work (and then again, it might not).
    >
    > Or, go for that 30D or 7D or .... (we just love excuses to upgrade).


    I do not remember what camera is being discussed here, but why not just
    send it to the manufacturer for servicing?

    --
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
    carrying a cross."
    Sinclair Lewis
     
    Ockham's Razor, Feb 27, 2007
    #12
  13. Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:

    > Jørn Dahl-Stamnes wrote:
    >
    >> I have tried that. I have used a cleaning agent from Visible Dust
    >> several times. No luck. The dust look exactly the same as before I
    >> began cleaning the sensor.

    >
    > One suggestion you might want to try. Take a Pec-Pad and add one drop of
    > distilled water to the pad and hit the sensor this. This hopefully will
    > dissolve what the cleaning agent (methanol) didn't. Methanol doesn't
    > dissolve everything water can. Once this is done follow with a new
    > Pec-Pad with he cleaning agent and this should do it.


    And if the cleaning agent is water-based? It should dissolve it. But maybe
    sensor need to be exposed to the cleaning agent for a longer time?

    --
    Jørn Dahl-Stamnes
    http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/dahls/
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes, Feb 27, 2007
    #13
  14. Jørn Dahl-Stamnes wrote:

    >> One suggestion you might want to try. Take a Pec-Pad and add one
    >> drop of distilled water to the pad and hit the sensor this. This
    >> hopefully will dissolve what the cleaning agent (methanol) didn't.
    >> Methanol doesn't dissolve everything water can. Once this is done
    >> follow with a new Pec-Pad with he cleaning agent and this should do
    >> it.

    >
    > And if the cleaning agent is water-based? It should dissolve it. But
    > maybe sensor need to be exposed to the cleaning agent for a longer
    > time?


    The problem or benefit with most of these cleaning agents is being pure
    methanol that dries extremely fast and doesn't spot. Distilled water won't
    evaporate fast and will dissolve things methanol won't. I recommended this
    to others that had the same problem and it worked.







    Rita
     
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=, Feb 27, 2007
    #14
  15. Jørn Dahl-Stamnes wrote:

    > Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Jørn Dahl-Stamnes wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>I have tried that. I have used a cleaning agent from Visible Dust
    >>>several times. No luck. The dust look exactly the same as before I
    >>>began cleaning the sensor.

    >>
    >>One suggestion you might want to try. Take a Pec-Pad and add one drop of
    >>distilled water to the pad and hit the sensor this. This hopefully will
    >>dissolve what the cleaning agent (methanol) didn't. Methanol doesn't
    >>dissolve everything water can. Once this is done follow with a new
    >>Pec-Pad with he cleaning agent and this should do it.

    >
    >
    > And if the cleaning agent is water-based? It should dissolve it. But maybe
    > sensor need to be exposed to the cleaning agent for a longer time?
    >

    Perhaps it is a dust spot between the top glass filter and the sensor.
    What camera do you have? I've wondered about the new cameras
    that ultrasonically vibrate the IR filter: could dust work its way
    under the filter? How well are the seals around the filters
    over the sensor?

    Roger
     
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Feb 28, 2007
    #15
  16. Ockham's Razor wrote:

    > I do not remember what camera is being discussed here, but why not just
    > send it to the manufacturer for servicing?


    Because I will be without a camera for days... :-(

    --
    Jørn Dahl-Stamnes
    http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/dahls/
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes, Feb 28, 2007
    #16
  17. Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) wrote:
    > Perhaps it is a dust spot between the top glass filter and the sensor.
    > What camera do you have? I've wondered about the new cameras
    > that ultrasonically vibrate the IR filter: could dust work its way
    > under the filter? How well are the seals around the filters
    > over the sensor?


    It is a Canon 30D, one year old.

    It have had the same thought - maybe it is between the glass filter and the
    sensor, since it seem to be more 'in focus' than other dust particles that
    I have seen before.

    --
    Jørn Dahl-Stamnes
    http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/dahls/
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes, Feb 28, 2007
    #17
  18. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes

    M-M Guest

    In article <>,
    Jørn Dahl-Stamnes <> wrote:

    > maybe it is between the glass filter and the
    > sensor, since it seem to be more 'in focus' than other dust particles that
    > I have seen before.



    At small apertures, dust particles on the surface of the low-pass filter
    are perfectly in focus.

    --
    m-m
     
    M-M, Feb 28, 2007
    #18
  19. M-M wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > Jørn Dahl-Stamnes <> wrote:
    >
    >> maybe it is between the glass filter and the
    >> sensor, since it seem to be more 'in focus' than other dust particles
    >> that I have seen before.

    >
    >
    > At small apertures, dust particles on the surface of the low-pass filter
    > are perfectly in focus.


    Here is a cropped image that shows the dust.

    http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/Foto/dust.jpg

    The image show two spots on in the image. The problem spot is marked 1. Spot
    2 came after the last wet cleaning of the sensor, and was removed by using
    compressed air.

    --
    Jørn Dahl-Stamnes
    http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/dahls/
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes, Feb 28, 2007
    #19
  20. Jørn Dahl-Stamnes wrote:

    > M-M wrote:
    >
    >> In article <>,
    >> Jørn Dahl-Stamnes <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> maybe it is between the glass filter and the
    >>> sensor, since it seem to be more 'in focus' than other dust particles
    >>> that I have seen before.

    >>
    >>
    >> At small apertures, dust particles on the surface of the low-pass filter
    >> are perfectly in focus.

    >
    > Here is a cropped image that shows the dust.
    >
    > http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/Foto/dust.jpg
    >
    > The image show two spots on in the image. The problem spot is marked 1.
    > Spot 2 came after the last wet cleaning of the sensor, and was removed by
    > using compressed air.


    And here is a 100% crop image:

    http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/Foto/dust_full.jpg

    --
    Jørn Dahl-Stamnes
    http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/dahls/
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes, Feb 28, 2007
    #20
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