DSLR, Smaller Sensor, Smaller TTL Viewfinder? Which has the largest?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Geshu Iam, Aug 15, 2004.

  1. Geshu Iam

    Geshu Iam Guest

    Just compared Kodak's 14n/n, Fujifilm S2, and Nikon D70. I didn't pay
    attention to check it but it seems the larger the image sensor, the
    larger the image in the TTL viewfinder.

    Yes, of course, since they are retro-fit to the originally fixed size
    image, and what shown in the DSLR is essentially the cropped-down.

    Just curious, is this true for all DSLRs? Any DSLR has the dedicated
    TTL viewfinder so that there is no need to suffer this cropped-down
    TTL VF image? What about Olympus? Anything (other than Kodak-14n) has
    the TTL feel like a real 35mm SLR?
     
    Geshu Iam, Aug 15, 2004
    #1
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  2. Geshu Iam

    [BnH] Guest

    err .. you were looking at all F80 and F75 body which is Nikon prosumer
    range body.

    Have a look at D1 or D2 family.

    =bob=

    "Geshu Iam" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Just compared Kodak's 14n/n, Fujifilm S2, and Nikon D70. I didn't pay
    > attention to check it but it seems the larger the image sensor, the
    > larger the image in the TTL viewfinder.
    >
    > Yes, of course, since they are retro-fit to the originally fixed size
    > image, and what shown in the DSLR is essentially the cropped-down.
    >
    > Just curious, is this true for all DSLRs? Any DSLR has the dedicated
    > TTL viewfinder so that there is no need to suffer this cropped-down
    > TTL VF image? What about Olympus? Anything (other than Kodak-14n) has
    > the TTL feel like a real 35mm SLR?



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    [BnH], Aug 15, 2004
    #2
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  3. "[BnH]" <b18[at]ii[dot]net> wrote in news:411ec2c7$0$16342$5a62ac22@per-
    qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:

    > err .. you were looking at all F80 and F75 body which is Nikon prosumer
    > range body.
    >
    > Have a look at D1 or D2 family.


    Here is a list that I compiled earlier. It is sorted in
    order of decreasing apperent view finder size (last column).
    The Kodak cameras and the Canon 1Ds are typical for film
    cameras. All other are smaller, some much smaller. The Sigma
    are only 1/3 of the area.

    Camera Sensor View.Magn. Scaling. Equiv. Magn. %Area
    Kodak DCS 14n (Nikon F80) 36,0 0,75 1,00 0,750 100,0
    Kodak SLR/n (Nikon F80) 36,0 0,75 1,00 0,750 100,0
    Canon EOS 1Ds 36,0 0.70 1,00 0,700 87,1
    Pentax *istD 23,5 0,95 1,53 0,620 68,4
    Canon EOS 1D MK II 28,7 0,72 1,25 0,574 58,6
    Nikon D2H 23,3 0,86 1,55 0,557 55,1
    Canon EOS 10D 22,7 0,88 1,59 0,555 54,7
    Canon EOS 300D 22,7 0,88 1,59 0,555 54,7
    Nikon D1 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
    Nikon D100 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
    Nikon D1H 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
    Nikon D1X 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
    Nikon D70 23,7 0,75 1,52 0,494 43,3
    Olympus E1 18,0 0,96 2,00 0,480 41,0
    Fujifilm S2 (Nikon F80) 23,0 0,75 1,57 0,479 40,8
    Fujifilm S3 (Nikon F80) 23,0 0,75 1,57 0,479 40,8
    Sigma SD10 20,7 0,77 1,74 0,443 34,8
    Sigma SD9 20,7 0,77 1,74 0,443 34,8

    The columns are:
    * Camera
    * Sensor size (taken from datasheet)
    * View magnification with 50 mm lens (taken from datasheet)
    - For Fujifilm and Kodak I have assumed that the finder is
    the same as in F80. I could not find any other info.
    * Scaling/cropping relative to 35 mm full frame (computed)
    * Equivalent magnification, taking scaling into account (computed)
    * Percentage of apparent area relative to Kodak cameras.

    If you find any faults in tha table - please tell me.


    /Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Aug 15, 2004
    #3
  4. Roland Karlsson <> wrote in message news:<Xns95467C043C9F5klotjohan@130.133.1.4>...
    > "[BnH]" <b18[at]ii[dot]net> wrote in news:411ec2c7$0$16342$5a62ac22@per-
    > qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
    >
    > > err .. you were looking at all F80 and F75 body which is Nikon prosumer
    > > range body.
    > >
    > > Have a look at D1 or D2 family.

    >
    > Here is a list that I compiled earlier. It is sorted in
    > order of decreasing apperent view finder size (last column).
    > The Kodak cameras and the Canon 1Ds are typical for film
    > cameras. All other are smaller, some much smaller. The Sigma
    > are only 1/3 of the area.


    That's interesting since Sigma uses the exact same viewfinder used on
    their SA9 film camera, in the SD9 and SD10. Are you suggesting you
    can only see 1/3rd of the picture in all of them?

    The two Sigmas have by far the widest viewfinder of any cropping DSLR,
    which is why they call it a sportsfinder instead of a viewfinder. A
    sportsfinder is a huge advantage over all the other croppers, which
    only have very tiny viewfinders.

    > Camera Sensor View.Magn. Scaling. Equiv. Magn. %Area
    > Kodak DCS 14n (Nikon F80) 36,0 0,75 1,00 0,750 100,0
    > Kodak SLR/n (Nikon F80) 36,0 0,75 1,00 0,750 100,0
    > Canon EOS 1Ds 36,0 0.70 1,00 0,700 87,1
    > Pentax *istD 23,5 0,95 1,53 0,620 68,4
    > Canon EOS 1D MK II 28,7 0,72 1,25 0,574 58,6
    > Nikon D2H 23,3 0,86 1,55 0,557 55,1
    > Canon EOS 10D 22,7 0,88 1,59 0,555 54,7
    > Canon EOS 300D 22,7 0,88 1,59 0,555 54,7
    > Nikon D1 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
    > Nikon D100 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
    > Nikon D1H 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
    > Nikon D1X 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
    > Nikon D70 23,7 0,75 1,52 0,494 43,3
    > Olympus E1 18,0 0,96 2,00 0,480 41,0
    > Fujifilm S2 (Nikon F80) 23,0 0,75 1,57 0,479 40,8
    > Fujifilm S3 (Nikon F80) 23,0 0,75 1,57 0,479 40,8
    > Sigma SD10 20,7 0,77 1,74 0,443 34,8
    > Sigma SD9 20,7 0,77 1,74 0,443 34,8
    >
    > The columns are:
    > * Camera
    > * Sensor size (taken from datasheet)
    > * View magnification with 50 mm lens (taken from datasheet)
    > - For Fujifilm and Kodak I have assumed that the finder is
    > the same as in F80. I could not find any other info.
    > * Scaling/cropping relative to 35 mm full frame (computed)
    > * Equivalent magnification, taking scaling into account (computed)
    > * Percentage of apparent area relative to Kodak cameras.
    >
    > If you find any faults in tha table - please tell me.
    >
    >
    > /Roland
     
    Georgette Preddy, Aug 16, 2004
    #4
  5. (Georgette Preddy) wrote in
    news::

    > That's interesting since Sigma uses the exact same viewfinder used on
    > their SA9 film camera, in the SD9 and SD10. Are you suggesting you
    > can only see 1/3rd of the picture in all of them?


    Everyone else but you would understand that the size in the
    table is the size of the sensor.

    > The two Sigmas have by far the widest viewfinder of any cropping DSLR,
    > which is why they call it a sportsfinder instead of a viewfinder. A
    > sportsfinder is a huge advantage over all the other croppers, which
    > only have very tiny viewfinders.


    The only interesting part is that one that is actually cought
    by the sensor. The sports finder is a nice touch though now when
    Sigma has choosen not to modify the finder prism.


    /Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Aug 16, 2004
    #5
  6. (Georgette Preddy) wrote in message news:<>...
    >
    > That's interesting since Sigma uses the exact same viewfinder used on
    > their SA9 film camera, in the SD9 and SD10. Are you suggesting you
    > can only see 1/3rd of the picture in all of them?
    >
    > The two Sigmas have by far the widest viewfinder of any cropping DSLR,
    > which is why they call it a sportsfinder instead of a viewfinder. A
    > sportsfinder is a huge advantage over all the other croppers, which
    > only have very tiny viewfinders.
    >


    Could you post exactly how wide is this by far the widest viewfinder?

    If it's exactly the same viewfinder used in Sigma's film camera, why
    rename it to "sportsfinder"? It smells fishy! (if not a indication of
    something inferior.)
     
    Einton Newstein, Aug 17, 2004
    #6
  7. "Georgette Preddy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > That's interesting since Sigma uses the exact same viewfinder used on
    > their SA9 film camera, in the SD9 and SD10. Are you suggesting you
    > can only see 1/3rd of the picture in all of them?
    >

    Other than saving production costs. What advantage is there in seeing more
    than is recorded? To show more than 100% of what is imaged is
    well....STUPID! But I expect that of Mattel, ooops I meant Sigma.
     
    Darrell Larose, Aug 17, 2004
    #7
  8. "Darrell Larose" <> wrote in
    news:5WnUc.101$:

    > Other than saving production costs. What advantage is there in seeing
    > more than is recorded? To show more than 100% of what is imaged is
    > well....STUPID! But I expect that of Mattel, ooops I meant Sigma.
    >


    No - it is not stupid. Many optical view finder cameras
    show more than is captured. It is convenient. In the case
    of the Sigma though, 75 % is outside the captured area.
    that would be a somewhat strange proportion to make by
    design. But now it is just that the original 35 mm film
    camera is not modified. So ... we get what we get ...
    a very small view of the captured image. Reminds me of
    a russian SLR I saw when I was young - it also had a very
    small view - and that sucked big time.

    But it is not only Sigma - even Fuji, Olympus and the oldie
    Nikon D70 have very small views.


    /Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Aug 17, 2004
    #8
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