Dry Mount Issues With Lab Prints

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Matt, Dec 25, 2006.

  1. Matt

    Matt Guest

    Hello,

    I need help solving a problem with ink bleed following dry mounting.

    I am dry mounting prints from my color lab using a Seal dry mount press,
    Colormount tissue, and rag board from Light Impressions. The prints are
    produced by White House Custom Colour (http://www.whcc.com/) on Kodak
    Professional Endura paper.

    Dry mounting works perfectly, except that the studio name, copyright date,
    and image file name printed on the back show through in light-valued
    areas of the print. The color lab prints this information on the back of
    every print.

    I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
    both temperature and duration to no avail.

    Does anyone have experience or advice related to this issue? Is there any
    way to prevent printed text on the back of a lab print from bleeding
    through to the front? Thank you in advance.

    --
    Matt
    Matt, Dec 25, 2006
    #1
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  2. Matt

    Colin_D Guest

    Matt wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I need help solving a problem with ink bleed following dry mounting.
    >
    > I am dry mounting prints from my color lab using a Seal dry mount press,
    > Colormount tissue, and rag board from Light Impressions. The prints are
    > produced by White House Custom Colour (http://www.whcc.com/) on Kodak
    > Professional Endura paper.
    >
    > Dry mounting works perfectly, except that the studio name, copyright date,
    > and image file name printed on the back show through in light-valued
    > areas of the print. The color lab prints this information on the back of
    > every print.
    >
    > I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
    > both temperature and duration to no avail.
    >
    > Does anyone have experience or advice related to this issue? Is there any
    > way to prevent printed text on the back of a lab print from bleeding
    > through to the front? Thank you in advance.
    >

    Most labs that print on the back use a very light gray ink, sparingly,
    to avoid bleed-through. You say 'my' color lab, does that mean they're
    your images, and your copyright? If so, I'd take one of your mounted
    prints to the lab, show them what they are doing, and request them to
    lighten the printing, or better still, don't print anything on the back
    at all. There's not much point in back printing a photograph that is to
    be mounted, anyway. If they're not your images, you might still be able
    to get them to lighten the printing.

    If they don't/won't cooperate, change your lab.

    Colin D.

    Colin D.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
    Colin_D, Dec 25, 2006
    #2
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  3. In article <>,
    Matt <> wrote:
    >
    > I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
    > both temperature and duration to no avail.


    WAY TOO HOT and too long of a duration for any kind of color print.

    Get some low temperature color mount tissue or preferably archival lower
    temp tissue. Mounts somewhere around 120-30 degrees. Place the image
    side down, put release paper in front of the image side between the
    print and supporting boards.
    --
    George W. Bush is the President Quayle we never had.
    Gregory Blank, Dec 25, 2006
    #3
  4. Matt

    Matt Guest

    On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 23:54:52 +1300, Colin_D wrote:
    > Most labs that print on the back use a very light gray ink, sparingly,
    > to avoid bleed-through. You say 'my' color lab, does that mean they're
    > your images, and your copyright? If so, I'd take one of your mounted
    > prints to the lab, show them what they are doing, and request them to
    > lighten the printing, or better still, don't print anything on the back
    > at all. There's not much point in back printing a photograph that is to
    > be mounted, anyway. If they're not your images, you might still be able
    > to get them to lighten the printing.
    >
    > If they don't/won't cooperate, change your lab.


    Thanks, Colin. I'll be sure to ask the lab that does my prints to omit the
    back-printing for my next print run.

    --
    Matt
    Matt, Dec 25, 2006
    #4
  5. Matt

    Matt Guest

    On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 09:47:43 -0500, Gregory Blank wrote:
    >> I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
    >> both temperature and duration to no avail.

    >
    > WAY TOO HOT and too long of a duration for any kind of color print.
    >
    > Get some low temperature color mount tissue or preferably archival lower
    > temp tissue. Mounts somewhere around 120-30 degrees. Place the image
    > side down, put release paper in front of the image side between the
    > print and supporting boards.


    Hi Gregory,

    Can you provide me with an example brand of tissue to look for and/or a
    URL?

    I was using 2 minutes for 8x12" prints and about 1 minute for 6x9",
    following the temperature guide included with my Colormount tissue.

    After I noticed the bleeding problems I reduced my temperature down to 175
    and time to 30s. The Colormount wouldn't bind properly at this temp.

    I'm also not using release paper---just 4-ply rag board as the supporting
    boards.

    Thank you for your advice, I'll look around and experiment.

    --
    Matt
    Matt, Dec 25, 2006
    #5
  6. Matt

    Scott W Guest

    Gregory Blank wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Matt <> wrote:
    > >
    > > I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
    > > both temperature and duration to no avail.

    >
    > WAY TOO HOT and too long of a duration for any kind of color print.
    >
    > Get some low temperature color mount tissue or preferably archival lower
    > temp tissue. Mounts somewhere around 120-30 degrees. Place the image
    > side down, put release paper in front of the image side between the
    > print and supporting boards.


    Are you dealing in C or F?

    Scott
    Scott W, Dec 25, 2006
    #6
  7. Matt

    Colin_D Guest

    Scott W wrote:
    > Gregory Blank wrote:
    >> In article <>,
    >> Matt <> wrote:
    >>> I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
    >>> both temperature and duration to no avail.

    >> WAY TOO HOT and too long of a duration for any kind of color print.
    >>
    >> Get some low temperature color mount tissue or preferably archival lower
    >> temp tissue. Mounts somewhere around 120-30 degrees. Place the image
    >> side down, put release paper in front of the image side between the
    >> print and supporting boards.

    >
    > Are you dealing in C or F?
    >
    > Scott
    >

    It'll be F. Seal is an American company, and I had one of their larger
    presses, would do 20x30 in one shot, but getting adequate pressure was a
    problem with that much area. I went to a vacuum press after that. At a
    unit pressure of about 14lb. per inch^2, the total pressure over a 20x30
    print was about 8,400 lbs, or about four tons. A mechanical press could
    get nowhere near that pressure.

    The pressure and vacuum combined removed all air from between the print.
    mount tissue, and board, resulting in excellent adhesion, extremely flat
    results that looked very good, better than any cold-mount system I've seen.

    190F won't hurt a print, chemical or inkjet. The 'dwell', or time at
    that heat, should be as short as you can manage.

    Colin D.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
    Colin_D, Dec 25, 2006
    #7
  8. Matt

    Scott W Guest

    Colin_D wrote:
    > Scott W wrote:
    > > Gregory Blank wrote:
    > >> In article <>,
    > >> Matt <> wrote:
    > >>> I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
    > >>> both temperature and duration to no avail.
    > >> WAY TOO HOT and too long of a duration for any kind of color print.
    > >>
    > >> Get some low temperature color mount tissue or preferably archival lower
    > >> temp tissue. Mounts somewhere around 120-30 degrees. Place the image
    > >> side down, put release paper in front of the image side between the
    > >> print and supporting boards.

    > >
    > > Are you dealing in C or F?
    > >
    > > Scott
    > >

    > It'll be F. Seal is an American company, and I had one of their larger
    > presses, would do 20x30 in one shot, but getting adequate pressure was a
    > problem with that much area. I went to a vacuum press after that. At a
    > unit pressure of about 14lb. per inch^2, the total pressure over a 20x30
    > print was about 8,400 lbs, or about four tons. A mechanical press could
    > get nowhere near that pressure.
    >
    > The pressure and vacuum combined removed all air from between the print.
    > mount tissue, and board, resulting in excellent adhesion, extremely flat
    > results that looked very good, better than any cold-mount system I've seen.
    >
    > 190F won't hurt a print, chemical or inkjet. The 'dwell', or time at
    > that heat, should be as short as you can manage.
    >
    > Colin D.


    I was thinking maybe Gregory was working in C since 120 to 130F seems
    too cool to work.

    Scott
    Scott W, Dec 25, 2006
    #8
  9. Matt

    Colin_D Guest

    Scott W wrote:
    > Colin_D wrote:
    >> Scott W wrote:
    >>> Gregory Blank wrote:
    >>>> In article <>,
    >>>> Matt <> wrote:
    >>>>> I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
    >>>>> both temperature and duration to no avail.
    >>>> WAY TOO HOT and too long of a duration for any kind of color print.
    >>>>
    >>>> Get some low temperature color mount tissue or preferably archival lower
    >>>> temp tissue. Mounts somewhere around 120-30 degrees. Place the image
    >>>> side down, put release paper in front of the image side between the
    >>>> print and supporting boards.
    >>> Are you dealing in C or F?
    >>>
    >>> Scott
    >>>

    >> It'll be F. Seal is an American company, and I had one of their larger
    >> presses, would do 20x30 in one shot, but getting adequate pressure was a
    >> problem with that much area. I went to a vacuum press after that. At a
    >> unit pressure of about 14lb. per inch^2, the total pressure over a 20x30
    >> print was about 8,400 lbs, or about four tons. A mechanical press could
    >> get nowhere near that pressure.
    >>
    >> The pressure and vacuum combined removed all air from between the print.
    >> mount tissue, and board, resulting in excellent adhesion, extremely flat
    >> results that looked very good, better than any cold-mount system I've seen.
    >>
    >> 190F won't hurt a print, chemical or inkjet. The 'dwell', or time at
    >> that heat, should be as short as you can manage.
    >>
    >> Colin D.

    >
    > I was thinking maybe Gregory was working in C since 120 to 130F seems
    > too cool to work.
    >
    > Scott
    >

    It's a while now since I retired and quit mounting, but I haven't heard
    of mount tissue working at 120F. A good hot day would see the print
    lifting. The lowest activating temp I have found is about 160 F.

    Colin D.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
    Colin_D, Dec 26, 2006
    #9
  10. Matt

    Matt Guest

    On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 09:58:23 -0800, Scott W wrote:

    >
    > Gregory Blank wrote:
    >> In article <>,
    >> Matt <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> > I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
    >> > both temperature and duration to no avail.

    >>
    >> WAY TOO HOT and too long of a duration for any kind of color print.
    >>
    >> Get some low temperature color mount tissue or preferably archival lower
    >> temp tissue. Mounts somewhere around 120-30 degrees. Place the image
    >> side down, put release paper in front of the image side between the
    >> print and supporting boards.

    >
    > Are you dealing in C or F?
    >
    > Scott


    Scott,

    My units are in degrees Fahrenheit, as Colin correctly guessed later in
    this thread.

    I do not trust the temperature gauge on my Seal press, so I've been
    measuring the temp in the center of the platen with a digital thermometer.
    I have not, however, measured the temperature between my two supporting
    boards---I assume it is lower.

    --
    Matt
    Matt, Dec 27, 2006
    #10
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