"Drone" photography begins at the Olympics

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Jul 6, 2012.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    RichA, Jul 6, 2012
    #1
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  2. RichA

    Nemo Guest

    Nemo, Jul 6, 2012
    #2
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  3. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Friday, July 6, 2012 5:36:17 AM UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    > Well, drone in the sensor of remote. But this has been done before by
    > individual photographers. I've seen remote DSLRs at hockey games, in
    > the arena rafters.
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/07/05/reutersroboticdslrs


    Any idea how those cameras on arms behind the goal at the recent Euro soccor cup thingy were controlled ?. Wondering if they'll ever manage an automated ball tracking system.
    Whisky-dave, Jul 6, 2012
    #3
  4. RichA

    Joe Kotroczo Guest

    On 06/07/2012 13:53, Whisky-dave wrote:
    > On Friday, July 6, 2012 5:36:17 AM UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    >> Well, drone in the sensor of remote. But this has been done before by
    >> individual photographers. I've seen remote DSLRs at hockey games, in
    >> the arena rafters.
    >>
    >> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/07/05/reutersroboticdslrs

    >
    > Any idea how those cameras on arms behind the goal at the recent Euro soccor cup thingy were controlled ?. Wondering if they'll ever manage an automated ball tracking system.


    Remote heads are an old hat in the film/video world. Been around for at
    least 15 years.

    Stuff like this:

    <http://www.arri-rental.com/grip/remote-heads/remote-heads.html>
    <http://www.arri-rental.com/grip/remote-heads/stabilized-remote-heads.html>
    <http://www.panavision.co.uk/catalogue/default.asp?cid=17>

    etc.

    --
    Illegitimi non carborundum
    Joe Kotroczo, Jul 8, 2012
    #4
  5. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 7/8/2012 3:19 PM, Joe Rocketry wrote:
    > On 06/07/2012 13:53, Whisky-dave wrote:
    >> On Friday, July 6, 2012 5:36:17 AM UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    >>> Well, drone in the sensor of remote. But this has been done before by
    >>> individual photographers. I've seen remote DSLRs at hockey games, in
    >>> the arena rafters.
    >>>
    >>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/07/05/reutersroboticdslrs

    >>
    >> Any idea how those cameras on arms behind the goal at the recent Euro
    >> soccor cup thingy were controlled ?. Wondering if they'll ever manage
    >> an automated ball tracking system.

    >
    > Remote heads are an old hat in the film/video world. Been around for at
    > least 15 years.
    >


    More than that. Back in the 70s a magazine cover shot of the Kentucky
    Derby was shot by a cheap P&S mounted on the rail.




    > Stuff like this:
    >
    > <http://www.arri-rental.com/grip/remote-heads/remote-heads.html>
    > <http://www.arri-rental.com/grip/remote-heads/stabilized-remote-heads.html>
    > <http://www.panavision.co.uk/catalogue/default.asp?cid=17>
    >
    > etc.
    >



    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Jul 9, 2012
    #5
  6. RichA

    Joe Kotroczo Guest

    Re: Quadrocopter camera

    On 09/07/2012 07:20, Alfred Molon wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >> To buy something, see http://www.raidentech.com/rchespycacos.html
    >>
    >> To see one in action see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-GjFhMcNZM

    >
    > These are all tiny spy cameras. Is there any arrangement which can carry
    > a heavy DSLR+lens?


    Yes. http://www.pictorvision.com/
    Not a quadrocopter though, might be an wee bit awkward indoors... ;-)

    These guys do a smaller, remote controlled version: http://www.hovercam.com/

    If you've got the camera on a gimbal anyway, Quadcopters don't offer you
    any advantage over normal helicopters. AFAIK you get more lift from a
    single rotor, and you gain maneuverability if you stabilize your camera
    independently from your aerial platform.

    --
    Illegitimi non carborundum
    Joe Kotroczo, Jul 9, 2012
    #6
  7. RichA

    Rob Guest

    Re: Quadrocopter camera

    On 9/07/2012 8:21 AM, Alfred Molon wrote:
    > It would be cool to fix a standard camera to a quadrocopter and use this
    > setup to take photos from above. Would require a remote control capable
    > of positioning the camera with the right angle at the altitude you need,
    > some capability of the camera to transmit the image being framed upon to
    > you (on some kind of screen) so that you can frame the shot before you
    > take it, and some kind of robotic arrangement so that the zoom and the
    > camera buttons can be actuated.
    >
    > I guess that would be easier with a compact camera with a motorised zoom
    > and light weight than with a heavy and manual DLSR (which would also
    > require a more powerful quadrocopter).
    >
    > From a technology perspective all this should be easily doable, but is
    > anybody selling such equipment?
    >



    I query the use of a SLR for this application. Surely there are other
    compact cameras around that will fit the bill and be much cheaper and
    lighter. Crashes come to mind when wrecking equipment.
    Rob, Jul 9, 2012
    #7
  8. Re: Quadrocopter camera

    Joe Kotroczo <> wrote:
    > On 09/07/2012 07:20, Alfred Molon wrote:
    >> In article <>,
    >> says...
    >>> To buy something, see http://www.raidentech.com/rchespycacos.html
    >>>
    >>> To see one in action see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-GjFhMcNZM

    >>
    >> These are all tiny spy cameras. Is there any arrangement which can carry
    >> a heavy DSLR+lens?


    > Yes. http://www.pictorvision.com/
    > Not a quadrocopter though, might be an wee bit awkward indoors... ;-)


    > These guys do a smaller, remote controlled version: http://www.hovercam.com/


    > If you've got the camera on a gimbal anyway, Quadcopters don't offer you
    > any advantage over normal helicopters. AFAIK you get more lift from a
    > single rotor, and you gain maneuverability if you stabilize your camera
    > independently from your aerial platform.


    The advantage of the quadrocopter is that it's much easier to control
    because it's more inherently stable.

    --
    Chris Malcolm
    Chris Malcolm, Jul 9, 2012
    #8
  9. Re: Quadrocopter camera

    Eric Stevens <> wrote:
    > On Mon, 9 Jul 2012 00:21:27 +0200, Alfred Molon
    > <> wrote:


    >>It would be cool to fix a standard camera to a quadrocopter and use this
    >>setup to take photos from above. Would require a remote control capable
    >>of positioning the camera with the right angle at the altitude you need,
    >>some capability of the camera to transmit the image being framed upon to
    >>you (on some kind of screen) so that you can frame the shot before you
    >>take it, and some kind of robotic arrangement so that the zoom and the
    >>camera buttons can be actuated.
    >>
    >>I guess that would be easier with a compact camera with a motorised zoom
    >>and light weight than with a heavy and manual DLSR (which would also
    >>require a more powerful quadrocopter).
    >>
    >>From a technology perspective all this should be easily doable, but is
    >>anybody selling such equipment?


    > To buy something, see http://www.raidentech.com/rchespycacos.html


    > To see one in action see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-GjFhMcNZM


    But you need to bear in mind the possible legal problems. In the UK
    for example it is illegal to operate such a camera within some
    significant distance (100 metres?) of any private dwelling unless you
    have the owner's permission -- invasion of privacy rights.

    --
    Chris Malcolm
    Chris Malcolm, Jul 9, 2012
    #9
  10. RichA

    RichA Guest

    RichA, Jul 9, 2012
    #10
  11. Re: Quadrocopter camera

    On 7/9/2012 2:20 AM, Alfred Molon wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >> To buy something, see http://www.raidentech.com/rchespycacos.html
    >>
    >> To see one in action see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-GjFhMcNZM

    >
    > These are all tiny spy cameras. Is there any arrangement which can carry
    > a heavy DSLR+lens?
    >

    It's an interesting question about ownership of the air-space above my
    property. Personally, if a drone were buzzing around my house, I'd feel
    I could legitimately catch the damn thing in a net or shoot it down with
    a shotgun.

    --
    Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

    Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
    James Silverton, Jul 9, 2012
    #11
  12. RichA

    Nemo Guest

    On 09/07/2012 13:03, RichA wrote:
    > On Jul 6, 4:23 am, Nemo <> wrote:
    >> On 06/07/2012 05:36, RichA wrote:
    >>
    >>> Well, drone in the sensor of remote. But this has been done before by
    >>> individual photographers. I've seen remote DSLRs at hockey games, in
    >>> the arena rafters.

    >>
    >>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/07/05/reutersroboticdslrs

    >>
    >> No problem, the defence spooks will soon sort 'em out:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18690861

    >
    > Why would they tell people where the missiles were? How stupid.
    >

    How stupid to let the terrorists know where the Olympic Games are being
    held.
    Nemo, Jul 9, 2012
    #12
  13. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    Nemo <> wrote:

    >On 09/07/2012 13:03, RichA wrote:
    >> On Jul 6, 4:23 am, Nemo <> wrote:
    >>> On 06/07/2012 05:36, RichA wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Well, drone in the sensor of remote. But this has been done before by
    >>>> individual photographers. I've seen remote DSLRs at hockey games, in
    >>>> the arena rafters.
    >>>
    >>>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/07/05/reutersroboticdslrs
    >>>
    >>> No problem, the defence spooks will soon sort 'em out:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18690861

    >>
    >> Why would they tell people where the missiles were? How stupid.
    >>

    >How stupid to let the terrorists know where the Olympic Games are being
    >held.



    They're quite easy to find. From central London, follow the signs,
    then turn right at the apartment block with the ground-to-air missiles
    installed on top. If you get lost, ask a policeman. ;-)
    Bruce, Jul 9, 2012
    #13
  14. RichA

    Joe Kotroczo Guest

    On 09/07/2012 00:55, PeterN wrote:
    > On 7/8/2012 3:19 PM, Joe Rocketry wrote:
    >> On 06/07/2012 13:53, Whisky-dave wrote:
    >>> On Friday, July 6, 2012 5:36:17 AM UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    >>>> Well, drone in the sensor of remote. But this has been done before by
    >>>> individual photographers. I've seen remote DSLRs at hockey games, in
    >>>> the arena rafters.
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/07/05/reutersroboticdslrs
    >>>
    >>> Any idea how those cameras on arms behind the goal at the recent Euro
    >>> soccor cup thingy were controlled ?. Wondering if they'll ever manage
    >>> an automated ball tracking system.

    >>
    >> Remote heads are an old hat in the film/video world. Been around for at
    >> least 15 years.
    >>

    >
    > More than that. Back in the 70s a magazine cover shot of the Kentucky
    > Derby was shot by a cheap P&S mounted on the rail.


    That wouldn't have been remote controlled though, would it? Other than
    triggering the shutter obviously.


    --
    Illegitimi non carborundum
    Joe Kotroczo, Jul 9, 2012
    #14
  15. RichA

    Joe Kotroczo Guest

    Re: Quadrocopter camera

    On 09/07/2012 11:59, Chris Malcolm wrote:

    (...)
    > The advantage of the quadrocopter is that it's much easier to control
    > because it's more inherently stable.


    Sorry, but that is not true. The advantages of a quadrotor are that they
    don't need blade pitch control, thus simplifying the rotor assembly
    enormously and that smaller rotors have less kinetic energy, which makes
    them safer indoors. They are not however more inherently stable, and
    require electronic sensors and stabilization systems to be flyable.

    Also I have yet to see a quadrotor RPA with a payload capacity of more
    than 2 kg. Which is not sufficient for a full-size DSLR with lens.


    --
    Illegitimi non carborundum
    Joe Kotroczo, Jul 9, 2012
    #15
  16. RichA

    Joe Kotroczo Guest

    Re: Quadrocopter camera

    On 09/07/2012 12:04, Chris Malcolm wrote:

    (...)
    > But you need to bear in mind the possible legal problems. In the UK
    > for example it is illegal to operate such a camera within some
    > significant distance (100 metres?) of any private dwelling unless you
    > have the owner's permission -- invasion of privacy rights.


    Awfully sorry to contradict you again, but I don't think that's true
    either. In the UK you are perfectly within your rights to take
    photographs of private buildings, dwellings or otherwise, as long as you
    are taking them from public land or from private land with permission of
    it's owner.

    See for example Google Streetview: perfectly legal.

    Unless by "such a camera" you mean aerial photography, in which case I
    don't know what the score is in the UK. I know some countries require
    permits for aerial photography, but I don't think the UK is one of
    those. I do however know that all flying above 60m is governed by the
    CAA, the Civil Aviation Authority, and you do need a licence (pilot
    qualification) to fly an UAS (unmanned aerial system).


    --
    Illegitimi non carborundum
    Joe Kotroczo, Jul 9, 2012
    #16
  17. Re: Quadrocopter camera

    On 7/9/2012 4:55 PM, Joe Kotroczo wrote:
    > On 09/07/2012 11:59, Chris Malcolm wrote:
    >
    > (...)
    >> The advantage of the quadrocopter is that it's much easier to control
    >> because it's more inherently stable.

    >
    > Sorry, but that is not true. The advantages of a quadrotor are that they
    > don't need blade pitch control, thus simplifying the rotor assembly
    > enormously and that smaller rotors have less kinetic energy, which makes
    > them safer indoors. They are not however more inherently stable, and
    > require electronic sensors and stabilization systems to be flyable.
    >
    > Also I have yet to see a quadrotor RPA with a payload capacity of more
    > than 2 kg. Which is not sufficient for a full-size DSLR with lens.
    >
    >

    I don't think much compositional capability would be needed for a flown
    spy camera. That might be an ideal use for a Lytro. On the other hand,
    it might be necessary to continuously down-load the files in case the
    drone met up with me and a shot gun. How much the electronics would
    weigh for that is something I can't estimate.

    --
    Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

    Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
    James Silverton, Jul 9, 2012
    #17
  18. RichA

    Joe Kotroczo Guest

    Re: Quadrocopter camera

    On 09/07/2012 22:35, Alfred Molon wrote:
    > In article <>, says...
    >> Also I have yet to see a quadrotor RPA with a payload capacity of more
    >> than 2 kg. Which is not sufficient for a full-size DSLR with lens.

    >
    > An APS-C DLSR with lens weighs less than 2kg. You don't have to attach a
    > medium format DSLR to a quadrocopter.


    You have to attach it with some sort of gimbal for it to point somewhere
    useful. And you have to have a video transmitter plus battery to be able
    to see something. And all the other accessories that you need before
    your camera does something useful remotely. All that comes out of your
    payload, not just the naked camera.

    Everybody I know who does this sort of thing commercially does it with
    (big) RC helicopters, not quadcopters. And I'm sure they would swap over
    to quadcopters if it offered them a significant advantage.


    --
    Illegitimi non carborundum
    Joe Kotroczo, Jul 9, 2012
    #18
  19. Re: Quadrocopter camera

    Joe Kotroczo <> wrote:
    > On 09/07/2012 12:04, Chris Malcolm wrote:


    > (...)
    >> But you need to bear in mind the possible legal problems. In the UK
    >> for example it is illegal to operate such a camera within some
    >> significant distance (100 metres?) of any private dwelling unless you
    >> have the owner's permission -- invasion of privacy rights.


    > Awfully sorry to contradict you again, but I don't think that's true
    > either. In the UK you are perfectly within your rights to take
    > photographs of private buildings, dwellings or otherwise, as long as you
    > are taking them from public land or from private land with permission of
    > it's owner.


    > See for example Google Streetview: perfectly legal.


    > Unless by "such a camera" you mean aerial photography, in which case I
    > don't know what the score is in the UK. I know some countries require
    > permits for aerial photography, but I don't think the UK is one of
    > those. I do however know that all flying above 60m is governed by the
    > CAA, the Civil Aviation Authority, and you do need a licence (pilot
    > qualification) to fly an UAS (unmanned aerial system).


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8517726.stm

    "All unmanned aircraft, not just ones that weigh 15lb (7kg) or more,
    now have to be licensed to conduct aerial surveillance work after the
    law changed at the start of the year. They need CAA permission to fly
    within 164ft (50m) of people and within 492ft (150m) of buildings. The
    CAA said any breach in regulations, which came into force on 1 January
    2010, would be "treated seriously"."

    --
    Chris Malcolm
    Chris Malcolm, Jul 10, 2012
    #19
  20. RichA

    Rob Guest

    Re: Quadrocopter camera

    On 10/07/2012 7:35 AM, Alfred Molon wrote:
    > In article <>, says...
    >> Also I have yet to see a quadrotor RPA with a payload capacity of more
    >> than 2 kg. Which is not sufficient for a full-size DSLR with lens.

    >
    > An APS-C DLSR with lens weighs less than 2kg. You don't have to attach a
    > medium format DSLR to a quadrocopter.
    >


    Do you know what weights are involved in newer DSLR cameras.

    My Nikon with its 24-120 lens weights in at 1.8Kg. (no battery pack)
    another is 1.4Kg.
    Rob, Jul 10, 2012
    #20
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