DOT.COM

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Frank Williams, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. Frank Williams, Apr 23, 2012
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Frank Williams

    Donchano Guest

    On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 18:45:33 +1200, Frank Williams
    <> shouted from the highest rooftop:

    >
    >Megaupload case near collapse
    >
    >http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/23/megaupload_case_in_trouble/


    This is now old news already covered by the NZ Herald in more detail:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/?objectID=10797998&ref=emailfriend

    Several weeks ago I sent a letter to the Commissioner of Police asking
    (under the official information act) what the raid on DotCom's leased
    estate cost. Having learn from previous experience, I phrased the
    questions several ways so - hopefully - the bureaucrats can't wiggle
    out of a full answer and not an "estimate" as reported in the Herald.

    Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    to answer I'll take it further.

    As a taxpayer I want to know exactly how much of OUR money was spent
    on this grandstanding fiasco. 76 police, including members of the
    Special Tactics Group and backed up by two helicopters, in order to
    arrest four suspects ... only to discover that the NZ police hadn't
    done the paperwork correctly and the entire case may be thrown out.

    What a joke - at the taxpayer's expense!
     
    Donchano, Apr 23, 2012
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:13:00 +1200, Donchano
    <> wrote:

    >
    >On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 18:45:33 +1200, Frank Williams
    ><> shouted from the highest rooftop:
    >
    >>
    >>Megaupload case near collapse
    >>
    >>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/23/megaupload_case_in_trouble/

    >
    >This is now old news already covered by the NZ Herald in more detail:
    >
    >http://www.nzherald.co.nz/?objectID=10797998&ref=emailfriend
    >
    >Several weeks ago I sent a letter to the Commissioner of Police asking
    >(under the official information act) what the raid on DotCom's leased
    >estate cost. Having learn from previous experience, I phrased the
    >questions several ways so - hopefully - the bureaucrats can't wiggle
    >out of a full answer and not an "estimate" as reported in the Herald.
    >
    >Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    >"in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    >to answer I'll take it further.
    >
    >As a taxpayer I want to know exactly how much of OUR money was spent
    >on this grandstanding fiasco. 76 police, including members of the
    >Special Tactics Group and backed up by two helicopters, in order to
    >arrest four suspects ... only to discover that the NZ police hadn't
    >done the paperwork correctly and the entire case may be thrown out.
    >
    >What a joke - at the taxpayer's expense!




    It was a Show for the Yanks, may be all to do with these free trade
    talks..
     
    Frank Williams, Apr 23, 2012
    #3
  4. Frank Williams

    Donchano Guest

    On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:13:00 +1200, Donchano
    <> shouted from the highest rooftop:

    >Several weeks ago I sent a letter to the Commissioner of Police asking
    >(under the official information act) what the raid on DotCom's leased
    >estate cost. Having learn from previous experience, I phrased the
    >questions several ways so - hopefully - the bureaucrats can't wiggle
    >out of a full answer and not an "estimate" as reported in the Herald.


    Here's the guts of the letter:


    REQUEST FOR INFORMATION UNDER THE OFFICIAL INFORMATION ACT 1982

    Dear Sir,

    It was reported that on the morning of Friday 20 January 2012, 76
    police officers, including members of the Special Tactics Group and
    backed up by two helicopters, raided Dotcom's leased estate in
    Auckland in order to arrest four individuals (TV3 News online).

    It was also reported in Issue No. 354 February 2012 of TENONE (the New
    Zealand Police's magazine online): "The high-profile operation centred
    on Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom in Auckland was the culmination of
    several months of careful planning by staff in Auckland and
    Wellington."

    The same article also states: "Ten search warrants were executed at
    addresses across Auckland and equipment including computers and
    documents were seized for evidential purposes."

    I am writing to request the following information regarding that raid
    on Dotcom's house on the morning of Friday 20 January 2012:

    1. The total cost of the planning and execution of the raid on
    Dotcom's estate.

    2. If considered separately, the total cost of the Special Tactic
    Group's participation.

    3. If considered separately, the total cost of the helicopter backup.

    4. If considered separately, the total cost of the application for and
    execution of "Ten search warrants" that were "executed at addresses
    across Auckland and equipment including computers and documents were
    seized for evidential purposes."

    5. If considered separately, the total coast of the "several months"
    of planning - including the cost both the NZ Police and the Organised
    & Financial Crime Agency New Zealand.

    6. If considered separately or wholly, the total cost of the entire
    operation from the planning stage, through execution - including all
    of the components of the operation.

    Thank you.

    Your sincerely,
     
    Donchano, Apr 23, 2012
    #4
  5. Frank Williams

    Enkidu Guest

    On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
    >
    > Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    > "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    > to answer I'll take it further.
    >

    Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
    such information?

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

    The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    Enkidu, Apr 23, 2012
    #5
  6. Frank Williams

    Donchano Guest

    On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    the highest rooftop:

    >On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
    >>
    >> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    >> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    >> to answer I'll take it further.
    >>

    >Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
    >such information?
    >
    >Cheers,
    >
    >Cliff


    Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
    always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
    with telling us whatever that happens to be ... ;-)
     
    Donchano, Apr 23, 2012
    #6
  7. Frank Williams

    Enkidu Guest

    On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
    >
    > On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    > the highest rooftop:
    >
    >> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    >>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    >>> to answer I'll take it further.
    >>>

    >> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
    >> such information?

    >
    > Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
    > always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
    > with telling us whatever that happens to be ... ;-)
    >

    No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
    giving the followers information that they don't need?

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

    The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    Enkidu, Apr 23, 2012
    #7
  8. Frank Williams

    Donchano Guest

    On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 22:03:08 +1200, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    the highest rooftop:

    >On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
    >>
    >> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    >> the highest rooftop:
    >>
    >>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    >>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    >>>> to answer I'll take it further.
    >>>>
    >>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
    >>> such information?

    >>
    >> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
    >> always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
    >> with telling us whatever that happens to be ... ;-)
    > >

    >No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
    >giving the followers information that they don't need?


    I'll let you know after I get the information.
     
    Donchano, Apr 23, 2012
    #8
  9. Frank Williams

    JohnO Guest

    On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> wrote:
    > On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus>  shouted from
    > > the highest rooftop:

    >
    > >> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:

    >
    > >>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    > >>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    > >>> to answer I'll take it further.

    >
    > >> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
    > >> such information?

    >
    > > Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
    > > always know what's best for us.  We should just leave them to get on
    > > with telling us whatever that happens to be ... ;-)

    >
    >  >
    > No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
    > giving the followers information that they don't need?
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff


    Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you have
    aspirations to the former?

    Just asking.

    >
    > --
    >
    > The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.
    >
    > The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    JohnO, Apr 23, 2012
    #9
  10. In article <4f9504d3$>, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> wrote:
    >On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
    >>
    >> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    >> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    >> to answer I'll take it further.
    >>

    >Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
    >such information?


    <chuckle> Thanks for that. :)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Apr 24, 2012
    #10
  11. Frank Williams

    Enkidu Guest

    On 24/04/12 08:15, Donchano wrote:
    >
    > On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 22:03:08 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    > the highest rooftop:
    >
    >> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
    >>>
    >>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    >>> the highest rooftop:
    >>>
    >>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    >>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    >>>>> to answer I'll take it further.
    >>>>>
    >>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
    >>>> such information?
    >>>
    >>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
    >>> always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
    >>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ... ;-)
    >>>

    >> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
    >> giving the followers information that they don't need?

    >
    > I'll let you know after I get the information.
    >

    You don't need it.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

    The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    Enkidu, Apr 24, 2012
    #11
  12. Frank Williams

    Donchano Guest

    On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:16:37 +1200, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    the highest rooftop:

    >On 24/04/12 08:15, Donchano wrote:
    >>
    >> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 22:03:08 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    >> the highest rooftop:
    >>
    >>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    >>>> the highest rooftop:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    >>>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    >>>>>> to answer I'll take it further.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
    >>>>> such information?
    >>>>
    >>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
    >>>> always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
    >>>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ... ;-)
    >>>>
    >>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
    >>> giving the followers information that they don't need?

    >>
    >> I'll let you know after I get the information.
    >>

    >You don't need it.


    I know. But I will anyway.
     
    Donchano, Apr 24, 2012
    #12
  13. Frank Williams

    Enkidu Guest

    On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:
    > On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> wrote:
    >> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    >>> the highest rooftop:

    >>
    >>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:

    >>
    >>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    >>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    >>>>> to answer I'll take it further.

    >>
    >>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
    >>>> such information?

    >>
    >>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
    >>> always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
    >>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ... ;-)

    >>
    >> >

    >> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
    >> giving the followers information that they don't need?

    >
    > Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you have
    > aspirations to the former?
    >
    > Just asking.
    >

    Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no point in
    disseminating useless information to everyone. If I were the government
    I'd be making something up right now. After all the whole Dot Com
    operation was funded by the recording industries, mainly in the state
    and won't cost New Zealand a cent. It was also a good exercise, the
    benefits of which will be realised when the government gets around to
    incarcerating all the communists and camp-followers like yourself.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

    The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    Enkidu, Apr 24, 2012
    #13
  14. Frank Williams

    Donchano Guest

    On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:21:20 +1200, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    the highest rooftop:

    >On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:
    >> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> wrote:
    >>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    >>>> the highest rooftop:
    >>>
    >>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    >>>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    >>>>>> to answer I'll take it further.
    >>>
    >>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
    >>>>> such information?
    >>>
    >>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
    >>>> always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
    >>>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ... ;-)
    >>>
    >>> >
    >>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
    >>> giving the followers information that they don't need?

    >>
    >> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you have
    >> aspirations to the former?
    >>
    >> Just asking.
    >>

    >Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no point in
    >disseminating useless information to everyone. If I were the government
    >I'd be making something up right now. After all the whole Dot Com
    >operation was funded by the recording industries, mainly in the state
    >and won't cost New Zealand a cent. It was also a good exercise, the
    >benefits of which will be realised when the government gets around to
    >incarcerating all the communists and camp-followers like yourself.


    That's your opinion. OPINION. And not only don't I agree with it, it's
    my opinion that you're not correct about the money - or at least NZD
    70,000.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/?objectID=10797998&ref=emailfriend

    But unlike you, I intend to find out the facts so at least I form an
    informed decision. If you're not interested in them then ignore them -
    like you did the article .



    Dotcom arrest costs taxpayer $70,000 - so far

    By David Fisher
    5:30 AM Wednesday Apr 11, 2012

    Taxpayers spent about $70,000 on the operation to arrest Kim Dotcom
    and seize his luxury cars and art.

    The cost doesn't include the cost of police staff, Crown lawyers
    acting on behalf of the United States or time spent in court.

    The January 20 raid set in motion the US Department of Justice case
    against Dotcom. The United States is trying to extradite Dotcom on
    charges of criminal copyright violation relating to his file-sharing
    Megaupload website.

    Figures gained under the Official Information Act show police
    estimated the cost of arresting Dotcom at $11,482. The figure did not
    include police salaries.

    The cars and luxury items taken from the home set taxpayers back
    another $62,271 with $25,000 alone spent on moving Dotcom's more
    expensive belongings.

    Insurance for the belongings for seven weeks, which include an
    estimated $6 million in cars, had cost about $6800 even though they
    have been securely shut away in a warehouse since being seized.

    Dotcom was an enthusiastic collector of luxury cars, ranging from a
    2008 Rolls-Royce Phantom Coupe to a 1959 Cadillac El Dorado. He also
    had a collection of late-model Mercedes.

    Once prized possessions, the cars are now expected to be auctioned in
    a deal struck between Dotcom's lawyers and Crown lawyers acting for
    the US.

    The auction would be carried out with only a few cars at a time to
    avoid devaluing the collection.

    Even though the case might be costing taxpayers, New Zealand does
    stand to come out ahead if Dotcom is convicted in the US.

    The goods are frozen but a successful conviction could see his fortune
    forfeited as tainted criminal proceeds.

    Official Assignee Guy Sayers said there was no mechanism for funds
    seized by Dotcom to be transferred to the US. He said forfeited goods
    would be transferred to the New Zealand government and become part of
    the Crown accounts.

    A failed case by the US would leave the taxpayer exposed. Police
    commissioner Peter Marshall last week gave the High Court formal
    notice it would be the focus of any liability case by Dotcom if he
    were to sue.

    Meanwhile, Dotcom has filed legal papers in US courts after moves to
    allow Megaupload's databases to be wiped.

    Megaupload's members stored their files on more than 1100 computer
    servers owned by Carpathia Hosting, the company which was raided by
    the FBI as Dotcom was being arrested.

    The FBI told Carpathia Hosting it could wipe the servers because
    snapshots of data from two of the servers was enough to prosecute
    Dotcom and his colleagues.

    Carpathia sought a ruling from the court because keeping the data was
    costing it money - but deleting it could leave it open to a law suit.

    Dotcom said the US government was allowing destruction of evidence to
    be used by the defence. He said Megaupload had wanted to buy Carpathia
    Hosting's servers for $1.4 million but the Department of Justice would
    not relax the freezing order to allow the money to be used.

    The court papers state the FBI didn't explore the servers to look for
    evidence "beyond loading up to prove its case" and was now trying to
    block similar investigations by the defence.

    BIG NUMBERS

    * $70,000 was spent on the operation to arrest Kim Dotcom and seize
    his luxury cars and art.
    * This didn't include the cost of police staff, Crown lawyers acting
    on behalf of the United States or time spent in court.
    * Cars and luxury items taken from the home cost another $62,271.
    * $25,000 was spent on moving Dotcom's more expensive belongings.
     
    Donchano, Apr 24, 2012
    #14
  15. Frank Williams

    Enkidu Guest

    On 24/04/12 11:38, Donchano wrote:
    >
    > On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:21:20 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    > the highest rooftop:
    >
    >> On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:
    >>> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> wrote:
    >>>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    >>>>> the highest rooftop:
    >>>>
    >>>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    >>>>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    >>>>>>> to answer I'll take it further.
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
    >>>>>> such information?
    >>>>
    >>>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
    >>>>> always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
    >>>>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ... ;-)
    >>>>
    >>>> >
    >>>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
    >>>> giving the followers information that they don't need?
    >>>
    >>> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you have
    >>> aspirations to the former?
    >>>
    >>> Just asking.
    >>>

    >> Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no point in
    >> disseminating useless information to everyone. If I were the government
    >> I'd be making something up right now. After all the whole Dot Com
    >> operation was funded by the recording industries, mainly in the state
    >> and won't cost New Zealand a cent. It was also a good exercise, the
    >> benefits of which will be realised when the government gets around to
    >> incarcerating all the communists and camp-followers like yourself.

    >
    > That's your opinion. OPINION. And not only don't I agree with it, it's
    > my opinion that you're not correct about the money - or at least NZD
    > 70,000.
    >

    It's the governments job to spend the money. Not yours. If you don't
    like it, form your own party and get yourself elected. Good luck to you.

    Anyway, it is not my opinion, in lower case or in capitals. It is the
    truth, and if you can't handle the truth, stay out of the game.
    >
    > But unlike you, I intend to find out the facts so at least I form an
    > informed decision. If you're not interested in them then ignore them -
    > like you did the article .
    >

    [Irrelevant stuff snipped].

    Why? What on earth are you going to do with your 'informed decision'?
    Write a stiff letter to your MP? Wave a placard? Tell other people?

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

    The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    Enkidu, Apr 24, 2012
    #15
  16. Frank Williams

    Donchano Guest

    On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:10:27 +1200, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    the highest rooftop:

    >On 24/04/12 11:38, Donchano wrote:
    >>
    >> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:21:20 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    >> the highest rooftop:
    >>
    >>> On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:
    >>>> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> wrote:
    >>>>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    >>>>>> the highest rooftop:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    >>>>>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    >>>>>>>> to answer I'll take it further.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
    >>>>>>> such information?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
    >>>>>> always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
    >>>>>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ... ;-)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> >
    >>>>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
    >>>>> giving the followers information that they don't need?
    >>>>
    >>>> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you have
    >>>> aspirations to the former?
    >>>>
    >>>> Just asking.
    >>>>
    >>> Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no point in
    >>> disseminating useless information to everyone. If I were the government
    >>> I'd be making something up right now. After all the whole Dot Com
    >>> operation was funded by the recording industries, mainly in the state
    >>> and won't cost New Zealand a cent. It was also a good exercise, the
    >>> benefits of which will be realised when the government gets around to
    >>> incarcerating all the communists and camp-followers like yourself.

    >>
    >> That's your opinion. OPINION. And not only don't I agree with it, it's
    >> my opinion that you're not correct about the money - or at least NZD
    >> 70,000.
    >>

    >It's the governments job to spend the money. Not yours. If you don't
    >like it, form your own party and get yourself elected. Good luck to you.


    Again, that's just your opinion. And a rather puerile one at that IMO.
    And if you really think you have to be elected before you can make a
    difference, then you obviously haven't tried.

    >Anyway, it is not my opinion, in lower case or in capitals. It is the
    >truth, and if you can't handle the truth, stay out of the game.
    >>
    >> But unlike you, I intend to find out the facts so at least I form an
    >> informed decision. If you're not interested in them then ignore them -
    >> like you did the article .
    >>

    >[Irrelevant stuff snipped].


    Wouldn't want to confuse you with facts.

    >Why? What on earth are you going to do with your 'informed decision'?
    >Write a stiff letter to your MP? Wave a placard? Tell other people?


    As I've already said, I'll let you know after I get the information.
    You might be happy being one of the flock, but I'm not.
     
    Donchano, Apr 24, 2012
    #16
  17. Frank Williams

    Ted Guest

    On Apr 24, 2:10 pm, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> wrote:
    > On 24/04/12 11:38, Donchano wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:21:20 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus>  shouted from
    > > the highest rooftop:

    >
    > >> On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:
    > >>> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus>   wrote:
    > >>>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:

    >
    > >>>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus>     shouted from
    > >>>>> the highest rooftop:

    >
    > >>>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:

    >
    > >>>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    > >>>>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    > >>>>>>> to answer I'll take it further.

    >
    > >>>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
    > >>>>>> such information?

    >
    > >>>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
    > >>>>> always know what's best for us.  We should just leave them to geton
    > >>>>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ... ;-)

    >
    > >>>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
    > >>>> giving the followers information that they don't need?

    >
    > >>> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you have
    > >>> aspirations to the former?

    >
    > >>> Just asking.

    >
    > >> Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no point in
    > >> disseminating useless information to everyone. If I were the government
    > >> I'd be making something up right now. After all the whole Dot Com
    > >> operation was funded by the recording industries, mainly in the state
    > >> and won't cost New Zealand a cent. It was also a good exercise, the
    > >> benefits of which will be realised when the government gets around to
    > >> incarcerating all the communists and camp-followers like yourself.

    >
    > > That's your opinion. OPINION. And not only don't I agree with it, it's
    > > my opinion that you're not correct about the money - or at least NZD
    > > 70,000.

    >
    > It's the governments job to spend the money. Not yours. If you don't
    > like it, form your own party and get yourself elected. Good luck to you.
    >
    > Anyway, it is not my opinion, in lower case or in capitals. It is the
    > truth, and if you can't handle the truth, stay out of the game.
    >
    > > But unlike you, I intend to find out the facts so at least I form an
    > > informed decision. If you're not interested in them then ignore them -
    > > like you did the article .

    >
    > [Irrelevant stuff snipped].
    >
    > Why? What on earth are you going to do with your 'informed decision'?
    > Write a stiff letter to your MP? Wave a placard? Tell other people?


    Vote appropriately at the next election.

    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff
    >
    > --
    >
    > The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.
    >
    > The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    Ted, Apr 24, 2012
    #17
  18. Frank Williams

    Gib Bogle Guest

    On 23/04/2012 10:03 p.m., Enkidu wrote:
    > On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
    >>
    >> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
    >> the highest rooftop:
    >>
    >>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    >>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    >>>> to answer I'll take it further.
    >>>>
    >>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
    >>> such information?

    >>
    >> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
    >> always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
    >> with telling us whatever that happens to be ... ;-)
    > >

    > No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
    > giving the followers information that they don't need?


    The police are leaders?? Surely this is sarcasm.
     
    Gib Bogle, Apr 24, 2012
    #18
  19. Frank Williams

    Gib Bogle Guest

    On 24/04/2012 11:03 a.m., Bruce Sinclair wrote:
    > In article<4f9504d3$>, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> wrote:
    >> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
    >>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
    >>> to answer I'll take it further.
    >>>

    >> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
    >> such information?

    >
    > <chuckle> Thanks for that. :)
    >


    Do you think he was making a funny?
     
    Gib Bogle, Apr 24, 2012
    #19
  20. Frank Williams

    Enkidu Guest

    On 24/04/12 17:26, Donchano wrote:
    >
    > On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:10:27 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted
    > from the highest rooftop:
    >
    >> On 24/04/12 11:38, Donchano wrote:
    >>>
    >>> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:21:20 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus>
    >>> shouted from the highest rooftop:
    >>>
    >>>> On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:
    >>>>> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> wrote:
    >>>>>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus>
    >>>>>>> shouted from the highest rooftop:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement
    >>>>>>>>> with the usual "in due course" proviso. If I don't
    >>>>>>>>> get a full answer or they refuse to answer I'll take
    >>>>>>>>> it further.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi
    >>>>>>>> polloi having such information?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians
    >>>>>>> and consultants always know what's best for us. We
    >>>>>>> should just leave them to get on with telling us whatever
    >>>>>>> that happens to be ... ;-)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the
    >>>>>> point of giving the followers information that they don't
    >>>>>> need?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you
    >>>>> have aspirations to the former?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Just asking.
    >>>>>
    >>>> Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no
    >>>> point in disseminating useless information to everyone. If I
    >>>> were the government I'd be making something up right now. After
    >>>> all the whole Dot Com operation was funded by the recording
    >>>> industries, mainly in the state and won't cost New Zealand a
    >>>> cent. It was also a good exercise, the benefits of which will
    >>>> be realised when the government gets around to incarcerating
    >>>> all the communists and camp-followers like yourself.
    >>>
    >>> That's your opinion. OPINION. And not only don't I agree with it,
    >>> it's my opinion that you're not correct about the money - or at
    >>> least NZD 70,000.
    >>>

    >> It's the governments job to spend the money. Not yours. If you
    >> don't like it, form your own party and get yourself elected. Good
    >> luck to you.

    >
    > Again, that's just your opinion. And a rather puerile one at that
    > IMO. And if you really think you have to be elected before you can
    > make a difference, then you obviously haven't tried.
    >

    No. You have to get control before you can make a difference. Getting
    elected is how we currently get control. If you don't have control all
    you can do is make bleating noises. You will just be ignored.
    >
    >> Anyway, it is not my opinion, in lower case or in capitals. It is
    >> the truth, and if you can't handle the truth, stay out of the
    >> game.
    >>>
    >>> But unlike you, I intend to find out the facts so at least I form
    >>> an informed decision. If you're not interested in them then
    >>> ignore them - like you did the article .
    >>>

    >> [Irrelevant stuff snipped].

    >
    > Wouldn't want to confuse you with facts.
    >

    It was irrelevant. What was done and what it cost is irrelevant. Of
    course, if it gives you pleasure to feel outraged for some reason, feel
    free. Some people get pleasure from the strangest things.
    >
    >> Why? What on earth are you going to do with your 'informed
    >> decision'? Write a stiff letter to your MP? Wave a placard? Tell
    >> other people?

    >
    > As I've already said, I'll let you know after I get the information.
    > You might be happy being one of the flock, but I'm not.
    >

    There's two sorts of sheep. Those who quietly munch grass and get on
    with being sheep, and there's those that spend their time bleating. I
    guess that they are the ones that aren't happy being one of the flock,
    but in spite of their noise, they are still are.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

    The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    Enkidu, Apr 24, 2012
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. rajiva gupta

    what about target MCSD dot net from 0

    rajiva gupta, Aug 4, 2003, in forum: MCSD
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    544
    Keith Nicholson
    Aug 7, 2003
  2. biker
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    622
    Guest
    Aug 18, 2003
  3. N.Babu

    MCSD (VS6) or MCSD (DOT NET)

    N.Babu, Aug 10, 2003, in forum: MCSD
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    481
    N.Babu
    Aug 10, 2003
  4. Todo

    VB6 or DOT Net

    Todo, Oct 31, 2003, in forum: MCSD
    Replies:
    6
    Views:
    490
    Kline Sphere
    Nov 2, 2003
  5. Jim McLaughlin

    What opens dot eml files?

    Jim McLaughlin, Jul 26, 2003, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    5,355
    °Mike°
    Jul 26, 2003
Loading...

Share This Page