Does HD Format Remove Everything ?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Quantum, May 23, 2005.

  1. Quantum

    Quantum Guest

    Just wondering, when a hard disk is low level formatted/written with
    zeros etc., is there any data left anywhere in the pc that could be
    still contaminated with a virus, or incorrect data from previous
    software or operating system installs? When a h/d is reformatted is
    there any data left anywhere in the pc? Does the registry get wiped
    when a disk format is carried out?

    Thanks to all who are able to answer any or all of these questions.

    Quantum
     
    Quantum, May 23, 2005
    #1
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  2. Quantum

    Tim Guest

    From a normal use perspective the answer is Yes.
    If you want to remove all trace of prior OS etc. then a zero of the disc
    (IBM has a free utility to do this) will achieve what you want.

    Deleting and recreating partitions does not quite remove all traces and can
    actually leave you in a mess. For example, if you create 2 partitions - A
    and B in that order, then delete A and recreate A, if those partitions are
    used in Windows then B will likely appear as C: drive. If a partition is
    deleted then it can be unerased using quite simple tools (comparatively
    speaking) so long as the actual data areas have not yet been overwritten.

    As far as virii etc are concerned, a low level format will get rid of
    everything. Historically it has been preferred on IDE drives never to do a
    low level format - this was a SCSI disc drive function - as it destroys the
    manufacturers data on defective tracks and can result in an unreliable disc
    drive.

    As far as data is concerned, you need to use a specifically designed disc
    drive eraser program. Even when data is overwritten, the old data is often
    still readable and can be retrieved with the right tools however this is an
    advanced forensics style operation. Interestingly it was a kiwi that
    demonstrated some years ago that "overwritten" data can still be retrieved.
    This has since been picked up on by law enforcement around the world.

    - Tim




    "Quantum" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    >
    > Just wondering, when a hard disk is low level formatted/written with
    > zeros etc., is there any data left anywhere in the pc that could be
    > still contaminated with a virus, or incorrect data from previous
    > software or operating system installs? When a h/d is reformatted is
    > there any data left anywhere in the pc? Does the registry get wiped
    > when a disk format is carried out?
    >
    > Thanks to all who are able to answer any or all of these questions.
    >
    > Quantum
    >
     
    Tim, May 23, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Quantum

    Quantum Guest

    On Tue, 24 May 2005 10:01:45 +1200, "Tim" <> wrote:

    >From a normal use perspective the answer is Yes.
    >If you want to remove all trace of prior OS etc. then a zero of the disc
    >(IBM has a free utility to do this) will achieve what you want.
    >
    >Deleting and recreating partitions does not quite remove all traces and can
    >actually leave you in a mess. For example, if you create 2 partitions - A
    >and B in that order, then delete A and recreate A, if those partitions are
    >used in Windows then B will likely appear as C: drive. If a partition is
    >deleted then it can be unerased using quite simple tools (comparatively
    >speaking) so long as the actual data areas have not yet been overwritten.
    >
    >As far as virii etc are concerned, a low level format will get rid of
    >everything. Historically it has been preferred on IDE drives never to do a
    >low level format - this was a SCSI disc drive function - as it destroys the
    >manufacturers data on defective tracks and can result in an unreliable disc
    >drive.
    >
    >As far as data is concerned, you need to use a specifically designed disc
    >drive eraser program. Even when data is overwritten, the old data is often
    >still readable and can be retrieved with the right tools however this is an
    >advanced forensics style operation. Interestingly it was a kiwi that
    >demonstrated some years ago that "overwritten" data can still be retrieved.
    >This has since been picked up on by law enforcement around the world.
    >
    >- Tim
    >


    Thankyou Tim, for all that information.

    If I do a low level format on a Maxtor h/d with Powermax, and then use
    the Windows XP install disk to create and format some partitions on
    that hard drive, any viruses (virii) and other data previously on that
    pc or motherboard, should have been completely removed by the low
    level format, shouldn't it ? A pc I'm fixing for a friend seems to be
    using settings for the video card, and Windows XP themes that should
    have been wiped out by the LL Format. How could that happen?


    Quantum
     
    Quantum, May 23, 2005
    #3
  4. Quantum

    CSE Guest

    On Tue, 24 May 2005 09:17:20 +1200, Quantum <> wrote:

    >
    >
    >
    >Just wondering, when a hard disk is low level formatted/written with
    >zeros etc., is there any data left anywhere in the pc that could be
    >still contaminated with a virus, or incorrect data from previous
    >software or operating system installs? When a h/d is reformatted is
    >there any data left anywhere in the pc? Does the registry get wiped
    >when a disk format is carried out?
    >
    >Thanks to all who are able to answer any or all of these questions.
    >
    >Quantum




    No it does not, you do need a special Format program to clean it fully..
     
    CSE, May 24, 2005
    #4
  5. Quantum

    Quantum Guest

    On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:03:29 +1200, CSE <>
    wrote:

    >On Tue, 24 May 2005 09:17:20 +1200, Quantum <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>Just wondering, when a hard disk is low level formatted/written with
    >>zeros etc., is there any data left anywhere in the pc that could be
    >>still contaminated with a virus, or incorrect data from previous
    >>software or operating system installs? When a h/d is reformatted is
    >>there any data left anywhere in the pc? Does the registry get wiped
    >>when a disk format is carried out?
    >>
    >>Thanks to all who are able to answer any or all of these questions.
    >>
    >>Quantum

    >
    >
    >
    >No it does not, you do need a special Format program to clean it fully..
    >



    Thanks CSE. What program, and where can I get it?

    Quantum
     
    Quantum, May 24, 2005
    #5
  6. Quantum

    Tim Guest

    This is a red herring.

    If you have trouble with an XP install and settings after having reformated
    using the tools you describe then the problem lies elsewhere.

    I suggest you detail what the real issues are and what you have done to try
    to resolve these issues to date. You may have previously performed a Repair
    install (XP) in which case all data and applications should still be in
    place but not necessarily functional - the degree of functionality after the
    repair depends on what you do after the repair and the individual
    applications (and virii etc.).

    So long as the disc drive you have low level formatted is the only disc
    drive in the computer, then I will state that there can be no doubt that any
    old data is inaccessable by normal means.

    Use of forensic tools will be a great waiste of time for you.

    The only times it is necessary to perform a high quality disc wipe is when
    you are selling or disposing of a disc drive that has contained valuable
    data. Downloaded bank statements and love letters hardly qualify unless you
    have committed a heinous crime.

    - Tim


    "Quantum" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:03:29 +1200, CSE <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>On Tue, 24 May 2005 09:17:20 +1200, Quantum <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Just wondering, when a hard disk is low level formatted/written with
    >>>zeros etc., is there any data left anywhere in the pc that could be
    >>>still contaminated with a virus, or incorrect data from previous
    >>>software or operating system installs? When a h/d is reformatted is
    >>>there any data left anywhere in the pc? Does the registry get wiped
    >>>when a disk format is carried out?
    >>>
    >>>Thanks to all who are able to answer any or all of these questions.
    >>>
    >>>Quantum

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>No it does not, you do need a special Format program to clean it fully..
    >>

    >
    >
    > Thanks CSE. What program, and where can I get it?
    >
    > Quantum
     
    Tim, May 24, 2005
    #6
  7. Quantum

    CSE Guest

    On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:19:33 +1200, Quantum <> wrote:

    >On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:03:29 +1200, CSE <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On Tue, 24 May 2005 09:17:20 +1200, Quantum <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Just wondering, when a hard disk is low level formatted/written with
    >>>zeros etc., is there any data left anywhere in the pc that could be
    >>>still contaminated with a virus, or incorrect data from previous
    >>>software or operating system installs? When a h/d is reformatted is
    >>>there any data left anywhere in the pc? Does the registry get wiped
    >>>when a disk format is carried out?
    >>>
    >>>Thanks to all who are able to answer any or all of these questions.
    >>>
    >>>Quantum

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>No it does not, you do need a special Format program to clean it fully..
    >>

    >
    >
    >Thanks CSE. What program, and where can I get it?
    >
    >Quantum




    Sorry I misread your post, you have other problems that are not to do with
    your hard drive, I have never ever formatted a Hard Drive to fix virus or any
    other problem with any OS..
     
    CSE, May 24, 2005
    #7
  8. Quantum

    Quantum Guest

    On Tue, 24 May 2005 14:32:00 +1200, CSE <>
    wrote:

    >On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:19:33 +1200, Quantum <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:03:29 +1200, CSE <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Tue, 24 May 2005 09:17:20 +1200, Quantum <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Just wondering, when a hard disk is low level formatted/written with
    >>>>zeros etc., is there any data left anywhere in the pc that could be
    >>>>still contaminated with a virus, or incorrect data from previous
    >>>>software or operating system installs? When a h/d is reformatted is
    >>>>there any data left anywhere in the pc? Does the registry get wiped
    >>>>when a disk format is carried out?
    >>>>
    >>>>Thanks to all who are able to answer any or all of these questions.
    >>>>
    >>>>Quantum
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>No it does not, you do need a special Format program to clean it fully..
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >>Thanks CSE. What program, and where can I get it?
    >>
    >>Quantum

    >
    >
    >
    >Sorry I misread your post, you have other problems that are not to do with
    >your hard drive, I have never ever formatted a Hard Drive to fix virus or any
    >other problem with any OS..
    >
    >
    >

    But what "other problems" could it be? What other part of a pc has
    data that might be corrupted or malicious or in some other way at
    fault that a disk format does not address?

    Quantum
     
    Quantum, May 24, 2005
    #8
  9. Quantum

    Quantum Guest

    On Tue, 24 May 2005 14:28:23 +1200, "Tim" <> wrote:

    >This is a red herring.
    >
    >If you have trouble with an XP install and settings after having reformated
    >using the tools you describe then the problem lies elsewhere.
    >
    >I suggest you detail what the real issues are and what you have done to try
    >to resolve these issues to date. You may have previously performed a Repair
    >install (XP) in which case all data and applications should still be in
    >place but not necessarily functional - the degree of functionality after the
    >repair depends on what you do after the repair and the individual
    >applications (and virii etc.).
    >
    >So long as the disc drive you have low level formatted is the only disc
    >drive in the computer, then I will state that there can be no doubt that any
    >old data is inaccessable by normal means.
    >


    >have committed a heinous crime.
    >
    >- Tim



    Ha ha no I've not done that (committed a crime) but the owner of this
    pc has formatted the disk on several occasions and re installed XP Pro
    with all updates but it won't run Outlook properly and sometimes the
    display colours change after the machine has been turned off for an
    hour or so. I wanted to be sure there's nothing else that could be
    causing the probs before I look at a video card replacement etc.

    After I used Powermax low level format and did a reinstall of WXP Pro
    it still has the same issues (outlook & colour changes) and want's to
    send error reports to Microsoft about registry errors. I'm currently
    reformatting one last time, and will try it without SP2 first. If
    that makes no difference I'll repost the exact error messages and more
    complete info. Thankyou for your help.

    Quantum
     
    Quantum, May 24, 2005
    #9
  10. Quantum

    CSE Guest

    On Tue, 24 May 2005 14:37:51 +1200, Quantum <> wrote:

    >On Tue, 24 May 2005 14:32:00 +1200, CSE <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:19:33 +1200, Quantum <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:03:29 +1200, CSE <>
    >>>wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>On Tue, 24 May 2005 09:17:20 +1200, Quantum <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Just wondering, when a hard disk is low level formatted/written with
    >>>>>zeros etc., is there any data left anywhere in the pc that could be
    >>>>>still contaminated with a virus, or incorrect data from previous
    >>>>>software or operating system installs? When a h/d is reformatted is
    >>>>>there any data left anywhere in the pc? Does the registry get wiped
    >>>>>when a disk format is carried out?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Thanks to all who are able to answer any or all of these questions.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Quantum
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>No it does not, you do need a special Format program to clean it fully..
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Thanks CSE. What program, and where can I get it?
    >>>
    >>>Quantum

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>Sorry I misread your post, you have other problems that are not to do with
    >>your hard drive, I have never ever formatted a Hard Drive to fix virus or any
    >>other problem with any OS..
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >But what "other problems" could it be? What other part of a pc has
    >data that might be corrupted or malicious or in some other way at
    >fault that a disk format does not address?
    >
    >Quantum




    Hardware Problems, Heat also and Bad RAM, costly to diagnose..

    You do not state what your problem is..?
     
    CSE, May 24, 2005
    #10
  11. Quantum

    Nova Guest

    Quantum wrote:
    >
    >
    > Just wondering, when a hard disk is low level formatted/written with
    > zeros etc., is there any data left anywhere in the pc that could be
    > still contaminated with a virus, or incorrect data from previous
    > software or operating system installs? When a h/d is reformatted is
    > there any data left anywhere in the pc? Does the registry get wiped
    > when a disk format is carried out?
    >
    > Thanks to all who are able to answer any or all of these questions.
    >
    > Quantum
    >


    umm even after a quick format that takes a matter of seconds the OS
    wouldn't be able to detect old old settings/files/registry etc, you dont
    need to 0 sectors to do that or low level format...
    So I think something really strange is going on.. you sure you dont have
    more than 1 drive in that machine and are formatting the wrong one or
    something? :).
     
    Nova, May 24, 2005
    #11
  12. Quantum

    Tim Guest

    In future, please include your hardware specs.

    Some things to try...

    The graphics card or graphics device driver would be at the top of the list.
    You could try reducing the hardware acceleration for the graphics card...

    I do recall from some time ago a report of an issue with outlook and a
    specific type of graphics card...

    Deinstall the current drivers, swap out the card for another and see what
    happens.

    If you suspect RAM, download and run memtest86 from memtest86.com and follow
    instructions. If that does not report any errors then download and run
    Prime95 from mersenne.org and run the torture test - this will perform a
    reasonable CPU run time test. These tests will prove stability - personally
    I doubt they will indicate any issues that related to the problem you are
    experience although you might still find issues.

    You could also try the dxdiag tests - start, run dxdiag.

    Only if all the above fails:

    Odd issues like this have sometimes been fixed with bios updates and
    clearing the bios. Check the bios version. Before you consider updating the
    bios, make triple sure you know what youu are doing, read the mobo
    manufacturers instructions, triple check you are getting the rioght bios for
    the right board and that you are using the right tool for the jon - do not
    use an online windows based auto update program - these are still highly
    error prone.

    If the bios has been well superceeded then follow instructions carefully on
    upgrading the bios noting the before config and resetting the config after.
    Make sure you power off and on then load bios defaults after you have
    flashed the bios before resetting the old settings & verify the old settings
    are correct. Refrain from puttin in any 'supercharge' options - most people
    prefer their computers to work reliably and are not fussed about an extra
    3%.

    - Tim.

    <snip>
     
    Tim, May 24, 2005
    #12
  13. Quantum

    Quantum Guest

    On Tue, 24 May 2005 15:25:39 +1200, "Tim" <> wrote:

    >In future, please include your hardware specs.
    >
    >Some things to try...
    >
    >The graphics card or graphics device driver would be at the top of the list.
    >You could try reducing the hardware acceleration for the graphics card...
    >
    >I do recall from some time ago a report of an issue with outlook and a
    >specific type of graphics card...
    >
    >Deinstall the current drivers, swap out the card for another and see what
    >happens.
    >
    >If you suspect RAM, download and run memtest86 from memtest86.com and follow
    >instructions. If that does not report any errors then download and run
    >Prime95 from mersenne.org and run the torture test - this will perform a
    >reasonable CPU run time test. These tests will prove stability - personally
    >I doubt they will indicate any issues that related to the problem you are
    >experience although you might still find issues.
    >
    >You could also try the dxdiag tests - start, run dxdiag.
    >
    >Only if all the above fails:
    >
    >Odd issues like this have sometimes been fixed with bios updates and
    >clearing the bios. Check the bios version. Before you consider updating the
    >bios, make triple sure you know what youu are doing, read the mobo
    >manufacturers instructions, triple check you are getting the rioght bios for
    >the right board and that you are using the right tool for the jon - do not
    >use an online windows based auto update program - these are still highly
    >error prone.
    >
    >If the bios has been well superceeded then follow instructions carefully on
    >upgrading the bios noting the before config and resetting the config after.
    >Make sure you power off and on then load bios defaults after you have
    >flashed the bios before resetting the old settings & verify the old settings
    >are correct. Refrain from puttin in any 'supercharge' options - most people
    >prefer their computers to work reliably and are not fussed about an extra
    >3%.
    >
    >- Tim.
    >
    ><snip>
    >




    Thankyou Tim. The bios has just been done. Quite a performance that
    was, but ended up ok. I'll do as suggested and see how it goes. Will
    post all other details if it still misbehaves.

    Quantum
     
    Quantum, May 24, 2005
    #13
  14. Quantum

    Quantum Guest

    On Tue, 24 May 2005 15:09:16 +1200, Nova <> wrote:

    >umm even after a quick format that takes a matter of seconds the OS
    >wouldn't be able to detect old old settings/files/registry etc, you dont
    >need to 0 sectors to do that or low level format...
    >So I think something really strange is going on.. you sure you dont have
    >more than 1 drive in that machine and are formatting the wrong one or
    >something? :).



    No there's only one h/disk.

    Quantum
     
    Quantum, May 24, 2005
    #14
  15. Quantum

    Tim Guest

    ....bios was last suggested step. Testing the VID card was #1. I still think
    it is a vid card problem... although of course it may not be.




    "Quantum" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 24 May 2005 15:25:39 +1200, "Tim" <> wrote:
    >
    >>In future, please include your hardware specs.
    >>
    >>Some things to try...
    >>
    >>The graphics card or graphics device driver would be at the top of the
    >>list.
    >>You could try reducing the hardware acceleration for the graphics card...
    >>
    >>I do recall from some time ago a report of an issue with outlook and a
    >>specific type of graphics card...
    >>
    >>Deinstall the current drivers, swap out the card for another and see what
    >>happens.
    >>
    >>If you suspect RAM, download and run memtest86 from memtest86.com and
    >>follow
    >>instructions. If that does not report any errors then download and run
    >>Prime95 from mersenne.org and run the torture test - this will perform a
    >>reasonable CPU run time test. These tests will prove stability -
    >>personally
    >>I doubt they will indicate any issues that related to the problem you are
    >>experience although you might still find issues.
    >>
    >>You could also try the dxdiag tests - start, run dxdiag.
    >>
    >>Only if all the above fails:
    >>
    >>Odd issues like this have sometimes been fixed with bios updates and
    >>clearing the bios. Check the bios version. Before you consider updating
    >>the
    >>bios, make triple sure you know what youu are doing, read the mobo
    >>manufacturers instructions, triple check you are getting the rioght bios
    >>for
    >>the right board and that you are using the right tool for the jon - do not
    >>use an online windows based auto update program - these are still highly
    >>error prone.
    >>
    >>If the bios has been well superceeded then follow instructions carefully
    >>on
    >>upgrading the bios noting the before config and resetting the config
    >>after.
    >>Make sure you power off and on then load bios defaults after you have
    >>flashed the bios before resetting the old settings & verify the old
    >>settings
    >>are correct. Refrain from puttin in any 'supercharge' options - most
    >>people
    >>prefer their computers to work reliably and are not fussed about an extra
    >>3%.
    >>
    >>- Tim.
    >>
    >><snip>
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    > Thankyou Tim. The bios has just been done. Quite a performance that
    > was, but ended up ok. I'll do as suggested and see how it goes. Will
    > post all other details if it still misbehaves.
    >
    > Quantum
     
    Tim, May 24, 2005
    #15
  16. Quantum

    Quantum Guest

    On Tue, 24 May 2005 17:36:08 +1200, "Tim" <> wrote:

    >...bios was last suggested step. Testing the VID card was #1. I still think
    >it is a vid card problem... although of course it may not be.
    >


    Thankyou Tim, if it's still not working right I'll tell my friend
    to get another video card.

    Quantum
     
    Quantum, May 24, 2005
    #16
  17. Quantum

    Daver Guest

    When using memtest86 make sure you use the extended tests. I had a weird
    issue and it turned out to be rare memory errors which only occurred with
    two memory simms fitted and was only picked up by the extended test.
    As for formatting all that is required is a quick format as this removes all
    reference to previous data and the only way it can be referenced is using
    data recovery tools.

    "Quantum" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 24 May 2005 15:09:16 +1200, Nova <> wrote:
    >
    > >umm even after a quick format that takes a matter of seconds the OS
    > >wouldn't be able to detect old old settings/files/registry etc, you dont
    > >need to 0 sectors to do that or low level format...
    > >So I think something really strange is going on.. you sure you dont have
    > >more than 1 drive in that machine and are formatting the wrong one or
    > >something? :).

    >
    >
    > No there's only one h/disk.
    >
    > Quantum
     
    Daver, May 24, 2005
    #17
  18. Quantum

    Quantum Guest

    On Tue, 24 May 2005 19:34:36 +1200, "Daver" <>
    wrote:

    >When using memtest86 make sure you use the extended tests. I had a weird
    >issue and it turned out to be rare memory errors which only occurred with
    >two memory simms fitted and was only picked up by the extended test.
    >As for formatting all that is required is a quick format as this removes all
    >reference to previous data and the only way it can be referenced is using
    >data recovery tools.




    Willdo thankyou Daver.

    Quantum
     
    Quantum, May 24, 2005
    #18
  19. Quantum

    Rob J Guest

    In article <> in nz.comp on
    Tue, 24 May 2005 14:55:58 +1200, Quantum <> says...
    > On Tue, 24 May 2005 14:28:23 +1200, "Tim" <> wrote:
    >
    > >This is a red herring.
    > >
    > >If you have trouble with an XP install and settings after having reformated
    > >using the tools you describe then the problem lies elsewhere.
    > >
    > >I suggest you detail what the real issues are and what you have done to try
    > >to resolve these issues to date. You may have previously performed a Repair
    > >install (XP) in which case all data and applications should still be in
    > >place but not necessarily functional - the degree of functionality after the
    > >repair depends on what you do after the repair and the individual
    > >applications (and virii etc.).
    > >
    > >So long as the disc drive you have low level formatted is the only disc
    > >drive in the computer, then I will state that there can be no doubt that any
    > >old data is inaccessable by normal means.
    > >

    >
    > >have committed a heinous crime.
    > >
    > >- Tim

    >
    >
    > Ha ha no I've not done that (committed a crime) but the owner of this
    > pc has formatted the disk on several occasions and re installed XP Pro
    > with all updates but it won't run Outlook properly and sometimes the
    > display colours change after the machine has been turned off for an
    > hour or so. I wanted to be sure there's nothing else that could be
    > causing the probs before I look at a video card replacement etc.
    >
    > After I used Powermax low level format and did a reinstall of WXP Pro
    > it still has the same issues (outlook & colour changes) and want's to
    > send error reports to Microsoft about registry errors. I'm currently
    > reformatting one last time, and will try it without SP2 first. If
    > that makes no difference I'll repost the exact error messages and more
    > complete info. Thankyou for your help.


    If you are getting registry errors you probably have fault memory.
     
    Rob J, May 24, 2005
    #19
  20. Quantum

    Pickles Guest

    "Rob J" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > If you are getting registry errors you probably have fault memory.


    It's almost new ram but I'll check it out as well.
    Thankyou Robj.

    Quantum
     
    Pickles, May 24, 2005
    #20
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