Does any camera come with a laser pointer?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Peter Jason, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. "Steve B" <> writes:

    > "Peter Jason" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Like laser pinpointing on rifles and pistols.
    >>
    >> I need it for shooting from the hip at weddings
    >> and the like when the exposure is set for
    >> pinpoint.
    >>
    >> Peter

    >
    > Bad, bad, bad.
    > Endangers eyesight.


    Class 1 lasers are safe "under all conditions of normal use" including
    using optics to concentrate the power. Some laser pointers are Class 2
    or 2m, and are safe if they're visible light (not infrared) because they
    won't damage your eye faster than you can blink (and aren't any threat
    to anything less sensitive than your retina).

    Lots of fear about lasers around, but what you can easily get are hard
    to hurt yourself with.
    --
    Googleproofaddress(account:dd-b provider:dd-b domain:net)
    Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
    Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
    Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Jan 17, 2013
    #21
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  2. Peter Jason

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Alfred
    Molon <> wrote:

    > > > Lots of DSLRs or interchangeable lens cameras with tiltable LCD screens
    > > > around. Why wouldn't a pro use them?

    > >
    > > You won't find that sort of feature above the consumer-level produts; in
    > > the Nikon line (the one I know) it's not on the D700, D800, or D4 (or
    > > older models at that level).

    >
    > Actually lots of DLSRs and interchangeable lens cameras, good enough for
    > a "pro", have a tiltable LCD screen.


    those cameras may be good enough in some situations, but pros don't
    generally use those cameras outside of a backup, and if they do, they
    don't use the tiltable lcd anyway.
     
    nospam, Jan 17, 2013
    #22
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  3. In message
    <>,
    RichA <> writes
    >
    >I'm wondering though, if a weak IR laser would produce a visible laser
    >spot on a subject via viewing through an EVF or LCD? If so, it might
    >be possible to do what the op wanted without risking any injury or
    >annoyance with the people he's shooting at?


    Just because you can't see an infrared laser doesn't make it safe! Quite
    the opposite, an IR laser beam doesn't provoke a blink reaction or
    contraction of the eye pupil, as a visible laser would. Consequently
    the laser gets focussed on the retina without any natural restriction,
    causing much greater retinal damage. You don't get into the so called
    "eye safe" region until you are up around 1.5um, well beyond the
    response cut-off of silicon so it wouldn't show up on the EVF. Even
    then, the "eye-safety" is only achieved by absorption of the beam
    through the vitreous humour (the internal fluid in the eye) which isn't
    total, so there are still dangerous levels especially at close
    distances. For example, infrared laser rangefinders have minimum eye
    safe ranges.
    --
    Kennedy
     
    Kennedy McEwen, Jan 17, 2013
    #23
  4. Peter Jason

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Eric Stevens
    <> wrote:

    > >> > > Lots of DSLRs or interchangeable lens cameras with tiltable LCD
    > >> > > screens around. Why wouldn't a pro use them?
    > >> >
    > >> > You won't find that sort of feature above the consumer-level produts; in
    > >> > the Nikon line (the one I know) it's not on the D700, D800, or D4 (or
    > >> > older models at that level).
    > >>
    > >> Actually lots of DLSRs and interchangeable lens cameras, good enough for
    > >> a "pro", have a tiltable LCD screen.

    > >
    > >those cameras may be good enough in some situations, but pros don't
    > >generally use those cameras outside of a backup, and if they do, they
    > >don't use the tiltable lcd anyway.

    >
    > Not true.
    >
    > I've several times seen 'a pro' (several in fact) using a Canon DSLR
    > with a tiltable screen to enable them to see what they are doing when
    > setting their cameras up for peculiar shots from a tripod. I've
    > envied the flexibility that such a screen gave to their work.


    several out of millions of pros does not mean it's common. it's the
    exception, not the rule.
     
    nospam, Jan 17, 2013
    #24
  5. Peter Jason

    nospam Guest

    In article <gIe2bAE$>, Kennedy McEwen
    <> wrote:

    > >I'm wondering though, if a weak IR laser would produce a visible laser
    > >spot on a subject via viewing through an EVF or LCD? If so, it might
    > >be possible to do what the op wanted without risking any injury or
    > >annoyance with the people he's shooting at?

    >
    > Just because you can't see an infrared laser doesn't make it safe! Quite
    > the opposite, an IR laser beam doesn't provoke a blink reaction or
    > contraction of the eye pupil, as a visible laser would. Consequently
    > the laser gets focussed on the retina without any natural restriction,
    > causing much greater retinal damage. You don't get into the so called
    > "eye safe" region until you are up around 1.5um, well beyond the
    > response cut-off of silicon so it wouldn't show up on the EVF. Even
    > then, the "eye-safety" is only achieved by absorption of the beam
    > through the vitreous humour (the internal fluid in the eye) which isn't
    > total, so there are still dangerous levels especially at close
    > distances. For example, infrared laser rangefinders have minimum eye
    > safe ranges.


    yet every day, police point infrared lasers at oncoming cars. although
    they may aim at the license plate, plenty of the laser still hits the
    eyes of the occupants of the vehicle. it's also 904 nm, well below your
    1.5 um limit.
     
    nospam, Jan 17, 2013
    #25
  6. In message <170120131846285546%>, nospam
    <> writes
    >In article <gIe2bAE$>, Kennedy McEwen
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >> >I'm wondering though, if a weak IR laser would produce a visible laser
    >> >spot on a subject via viewing through an EVF or LCD? If so, it might
    >> >be possible to do what the op wanted without risking any injury or
    >> >annoyance with the people he's shooting at?

    >>
    >> Just because you can't see an infrared laser doesn't make it safe! Quite
    >> the opposite, an IR laser beam doesn't provoke a blink reaction or
    >> contraction of the eye pupil, as a visible laser would. Consequently
    >> the laser gets focussed on the retina without any natural restriction,
    >> causing much greater retinal damage. You don't get into the so called
    >> "eye safe" region until you are up around 1.5um, well beyond the
    >> response cut-off of silicon so it wouldn't show up on the EVF. Even
    >> then, the "eye-safety" is only achieved by absorption of the beam
    >> through the vitreous humour (the internal fluid in the eye) which isn't
    >> total, so there are still dangerous levels especially at close
    >> distances. For example, infrared laser rangefinders have minimum eye
    >> safe ranges.

    >
    >yet every day, police point infrared lasers at oncoming cars.


    Not at close enough range to risk damage though.

    >although
    >they may aim at the license plate, plenty of the laser still hits the
    >eyes of the occupants of the vehicle.


    Sure, and it can illuminate the occupants because at the range at which
    it is used the beam covers a large enough area to extend to them even
    when centred on the number plate. People seem to think that a laser
    beam can only ever be the pencil thin beam they see at light shows or
    produced by laser pointers. They can be very thick beams, created by
    beam expanding optics, reducing the danger level significantly. The
    exit pupil of a typical speed gun laser is around 40-50mm, not the 1-2mm
    of a laser pointer. They can also be very divergent, reducing the
    intensity, and danger, very quickly with range.

    Even so, laser speed guns also have minimum nominal optical hazard
    distances (NOHD) below which they are dangerous to use.
    --
    Kennedy
     
    Kennedy McEwen, Jan 18, 2013
    #26
  7. Peter Jason

    nospam Guest

    In article <2013011717181923810-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    > >> although
    > >> they may aim at the license plate, plenty of the laser still hits the
    > >> eyes of the occupants of the vehicle.

    > >
    > > Sure, and it can illuminate the occupants because at the range at which
    > > it is used the beam covers a large enough area to extend to them even
    > > when centred on the number plate. People seem to think that a laser
    > > beam can only ever be the pencil thin beam they see at light shows or
    > > produced by laser pointers. They can be very thick beams, created by
    > > beam expanding optics, reducing the danger level significantly. The
    > > exit pupil of a typical speed gun laser is around 40-50mm, not the
    > > 1-2mm of a laser pointer. They can also be very divergent, reducing
    > > the intensity, and danger, very quickly with range.
    > >
    > > Even so, laser speed guns also have minimum nominal optical hazard
    > > distances (NOHD) below which they are dangerous to use.

    >
    > a "Ladar/Lidar" spot at typical ranges is huge and paints more than
    > just the number plate. Typically the entire front of the car is painted
    > including the area of the windshield. This allows the Laser detector in
    > the car to inform you that you are about to receive a ticket. At 2000ft
    > the "spot" has a diameter of about 6ft. The Officer is not aiming by
    > placing the "spot" on the numberplate, he/she is using an optical sight
    > integrated into the unit. Speed detection Lasers are usually contained
    > Class I lasers.


    the officer uses the optical sight in the lidar gun to aim at the car's
    license plate or headlights because those are the most reflective. the
    beam width at a typical measuring distance will cover more than just
    the license plate, including the rest of the vehicle and quite possibly
    other vehicles.
     
    nospam, Jan 18, 2013
    #27
  8. Peter Jason

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:48:47 +0000, Kennedy McEwen <>
    wrote:
    : In message
    : <>,
    : RichA <> writes
    : >
    : >I'm wondering though, if a weak IR laser would produce a visible laser
    : >spot on a subject via viewing through an EVF or LCD? If so, it might
    : >be possible to do what the op wanted without risking any injury or
    : >annoyance with the people he's shooting at?
    :
    : Just because you can't see an infrared laser doesn't make it safe! Quite
    : the opposite, an IR laser beam doesn't provoke a blink reaction or
    : contraction of the eye pupil, as a visible laser would. Consequently
    : the laser gets focussed on the retina without any natural restriction,
    : causing much greater retinal damage. You don't get into the so called
    : "eye safe" region until you are up around 1.5um, well beyond the
    : response cut-off of silicon so it wouldn't show up on the EVF. Even
    : then, the "eye-safety" is only achieved by absorption of the beam
    : through the vitreous humour (the internal fluid in the eye) which isn't
    : total, so there are still dangerous levels especially at close
    : distances. For example, infrared laser rangefinders have minimum eye
    : safe ranges.

    And any energy absorbed in the vitreous humor expresses itself as heat, and
    artifically heating up the eyeball isn't usually considered desirable.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jan 18, 2013
    #28
  9. Peter Jason

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 18:23:49 -0800, Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    : On 2013-01-17 17:59:31 -0800, nospam <> said:
    :
    : > In article <2013011717181923810-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    : > Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    : >
    : >>>> although
    : >>>> they may aim at the license plate, plenty of the laser still hits the
    : >>>> eyes of the occupants of the vehicle.
    : >>>
    : >>> Sure, and it can illuminate the occupants because at the range at which
    : >>> it is used the beam covers a large enough area to extend to them even
    : >>> when centred on the number plate. People seem to think that a laser
    : >>> beam can only ever be the pencil thin beam they see at light shows or
    : >>> produced by laser pointers. They can be very thick beams, created by
    : >>> beam expanding optics, reducing the danger level significantly. The
    : >>> exit pupil of a typical speed gun laser is around 40-50mm, not the
    : >>> 1-2mm of a laser pointer. They can also be very divergent, reducing
    : >>> the intensity, and danger, very quickly with range.
    : >>>
    : >>> Even so, laser speed guns also have minimum nominal optical hazard
    : >>> distances (NOHD) below which they are dangerous to use.
    : >>
    : >> a "Ladar/Lidar" spot at typical ranges is huge and paints more than
    : >> just the number plate. Typically the entire front of the car is painted
    : >> including the area of the windshield. This allows the Laser detector in
    : >> the car to inform you that you are about to receive a ticket. At 2000ft
    : >> the "spot" has a diameter of about 6ft. The Officer is not aiming by
    : >> placing the "spot" on the numberplate, he/she is using an optical sight
    : >> integrated into the unit. Speed detection Lasers are usually contained
    : >> Class I lasers.
    : >
    : > the officer uses the optical sight in the lidar gun to aim at the car's
    : > license plate or headlights because those are the most reflective. the
    : > beam width at a typical measuring distance will cover more than just
    : > the license plate, including the rest of the vehicle and quite possibly
    : > other vehicles.
    :
    : Thank you for your endorsement of all I have written on the subject, by
    : paraphrasing it and adding the typical aim points to the explanation.
    :
    : My main point is that with the diffused "LiDAR" beam there is not going
    : to be a spot visible anywhere on the target vehicle as there might be
    : with a pointer or firearms laser sight and the officer has no choice
    : but to use the optical sight to aim at numberplate, headlights or grill.
    :
    : Also the big disadvantage over vehicle installed Radar speed detection
    : is, the Lidar unit has to be stationary. So watch those overpasses and
    : hidden pullouts. The CHP will only use Lidar from stationary positions
    : whereas CHP cruisers use cycling front and rear facing Radar and are
    : able to clock following and head on closing vehicles. So there are
    : times when slowing down after you understand that car you coming up to
    : with the intention of passing is a CHP cruiser and your ticket is as
    : good as written.

    Well, if you slow down, it tells the cop that at least you were paying
    attention. If he's having a good day, that might possibly tip the balance
    between a fine and a warning.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jan 18, 2013
    #29
  10. Peter Jason

    nospam Guest

    In article <2013011718234977633-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    > Also the big disadvantage over vehicle installed Radar speed detection
    > is, the Lidar unit has to be stationary. So watch those overpasses and
    > hidden pullouts. The CHP will only use Lidar from stationary positions
    > whereas CHP cruisers use cycling front and rear facing Radar and are
    > able to clock following and head on closing vehicles. So there are
    > times when slowing down after you understand that car you coming up to
    > with the intention of passing is a CHP cruiser and your ticket is as
    > good as written.


    only if you're oblivious.

    > What is tough for Radar to do is isolate an individual vehicle to
    > clock. That takes experience and/or LiDAR.


    supposedly, they estimate the speed visually and confirm it with radar
    (or lidar), so they already know which car it is.

    on the other hand, a lot of times they just wait for the overspeed
    alarm to go off.
     
    nospam, Jan 18, 2013
    #30
  11. Peter Jason

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Robert Coe
    <> wrote:

    > : Also the big disadvantage over vehicle installed Radar speed detection
    > : is, the Lidar unit has to be stationary. So watch those overpasses and
    > : hidden pullouts. The CHP will only use Lidar from stationary positions
    > : whereas CHP cruisers use cycling front and rear facing Radar and are
    > : able to clock following and head on closing vehicles. So there are
    > : times when slowing down after you understand that car you coming up to
    > : with the intention of passing is a CHP cruiser and your ticket is as
    > : good as written.
    >
    > Well, if you slow down, it tells the cop that at least you were paying
    > attention. If he's having a good day, that might possibly tip the balance
    > between a fine and a warning.


    and if you slow down early enough, you won't be pulled over at all.
     
    nospam, Jan 18, 2013
    #31
  12. Peter Jason

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 04:51:02 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave <>
    wrote:
    : On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:44:02 PM UTC, Alfred Molon wrote:
    : > In article <>, David Dyer-Bennet says...
    : >
    : > > Well, sure, but...there really aren't any; not something that any
    : > > professional wedding photographer would really recognize as suitable
    : > > professional equipment for his use.
    : >
    : > Lots of DSLRs or interchangeable lens cameras with tiltable LCD screens
    : > around. Why wouldn't a pro use them?
    :
    : I don't think that was the question, titltable screens first became
    : availbe on so called amateur cameras rather than pro DSLRs as far as
    : I remember.

    My Canon G-5 had one, and I believe it was one of the first. I didn't use the
    tilt screen all that much; but when I did, it proved very useful.

    Now I've promised that camera to my daughter, for my granddaughter to take to
    camp this summer - the theory being that it won't matter much if she
    accidentally drops it in the lake. Sic transit gloria mundi.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jan 18, 2013
    #32
  13. Peter Jason

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 19:47:50 +0100, Alfred Molon <>
    wrote:
    : In article <>, David Dyer-Bennet says...
    : > > Lots of DSLRs or interchangeable lens cameras with tiltable LCD screens
    : > > around. Why wouldn't a pro use them?
    : >
    : > You won't find that sort of feature above the consumer-level produts; in
    : > the Nikon line (the one I know) it's not on the D700, D800, or D4 (or
    : > older models at that level).
    :
    : Actually lots of DLSRs and interchangeable lens cameras, good enough for
    : a "pro", have a tiltable LCD screen.

    Real pros aren't too vain to be seen using a lesser camera when the occasion
    warrants. I attended a lecture Monday evening by a fairly well known
    residential architecture photographer. One of the better pictures he showed
    was of a scene he ran across when he wasn't on a shoot and didn't have his
    serious equipment along. So he whipped his P&S out of the glove compartment
    and banged away.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jan 18, 2013
    #33
  14. Peter Jason

    gregz Guest

    Mort <> wrote:
    > Peter Jason wrote:
    >> Like laser pinpointing on rifles and pistols.
    >>
    >> I need it for shooting from the hip at weddings
    >> and the like when the exposure is set for
    >> pinpoint.
    >>
    >> Peter
    >>

    >
    > Do you wish to blind your enemies, or just your friends?
    >
    > Mort Linder


    Just the DJ is allowed to blind.

    It would be easy to attenuate laser beams, or make an LED lens natural
    light spot beam. Of course, it has to turn off before shot.

    Greg
     
    gregz, Jan 18, 2013
    #34
  15. Peter Jason

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 14:08:30 -0500, nospam <> wrote:
    : In article <>, Alfred
    : Molon <> wrote:
    :
    : > > > Lots of DSLRs or interchangeable lens cameras with tiltable LCD
    : > > > screens around. Why wouldn't a pro use them?
    : > >
    : > > You won't find that sort of feature above the consumer-level produts;
    : > > in the Nikon line (the one I know) it's not on the D700, D800, or D4
    : > > (or older models at that level).
    : >
    : > Actually lots of DLSRs and interchangeable lens cameras, good enough
    : > for a "pro", have a tiltable LCD screen.
    :
    : those cameras may be good enough in some situations, but pros don't
    : generally use those cameras outside of a backup, and if they do, they
    : don't use the tiltable lcd anyway.

    Damn me, Nospam, how the hell do you know that? How much time do you spend
    following pro photographers around to see how they use their backup cameras?
    Too much, maybe, if you're not just bluffing.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jan 18, 2013
    #35
  16. On 1/17/2013 11:12 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    >
    > If you find a 0.1mW laser (note that the Class IIa pointers are usually
    > 1mW)


    You won't find a real one, its too low for diodes to be reliable.
    But there are ND filters.


    > it would probably be as useful as the light system found on your
    > Pacemaker Crown in terms of the illumination it would produce at the
    > target. however, that is not the point. A subject would still be able to
    > look directly at the laser source and that is problematic. A 1mW laser
    > pointer can produce an intensity of 167 times that of the Sun on the
    > retina. Would 16 times the intensity of the Sun be acceptable to you to
    > risk?


    Indeed it can! BUT ... the beam has to fill the eye's pupil,
    let's say 6 mm dia. I'm saying a 24 mm spot, or larger. That's 1/4
    the diameter, 1/16th the intensity. Which is by your measure would
    make it the same intensity as the sun ... if focused.
    But to focus, that eye would have to be focused at essenitally infinity,
    not 20 feet.

    OF course, one could use a 0.1 milliwatt LED which could never ever be
    focused to a diffraction limited spotspot. It would not be any less
    dangerous in reality, but would "feel" less dangerous. OR one could
    use a holographic diffuser on a laser to make it unfocusable.

    I suggest that that sort of intensity is needed only outdoors and
    intensity only a bit larger than tungsten is needed indoors.

    100 microwatt things are dangerous if stared at, in focus, but not
    otherwise.
    Admittedly you need 1 microwatt of less to be safe under all
    circumstances. You can get more than that with tungsten! Its possible
    to go blind staring a long time at 3600K. There a lot of ubntensity
    there in the IR.

    Doug McDonald
     
    Doug McDonald, Jan 18, 2013
    #36
  17. Peter Jason

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:47:38 -0500, nospam <> wrote:
    : In article <2013011718234977633-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    : Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    :
    : > Also the big disadvantage over vehicle installed Radar speed detection
    : > is, the Lidar unit has to be stationary. So watch those overpasses and
    : > hidden pullouts. The CHP will only use Lidar from stationary positions
    : > whereas CHP cruisers use cycling front and rear facing Radar and are
    : > able to clock following and head on closing vehicles. So there are
    : > times when slowing down after you understand that car you coming up to
    : > with the intention of passing is a CHP cruiser and your ticket is as
    : > good as written.
    :
    : only if you're oblivious.

    Hardly. With modern speed measuring equipment, you have only microseconds to
    react. By the time you see (or your detector sees) the device, your goose is
    probably cooked.

    : > What is tough for Radar to do is isolate an individual vehicle to
    : > clock. That takes experience and/or LiDAR.
    :
    : supposedly, they estimate the speed visually and confirm it with radar
    : (or lidar), so they already know which car it is.
    :
    : on the other hand, a lot of times they just wait for the overspeed
    : alarm to go off.

    Very interesting. You are aware, of course, that the Duck is a retired cop?

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jan 18, 2013
    #37
  18. Peter Jason

    Tony Cooper Guest

    On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:15:27 -0500, Robert Coe <> wrote:

    >On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 14:08:30 -0500, nospam <> wrote:
    >: In article <>, Alfred
    >: Molon <> wrote:
    >:
    >: > > > Lots of DSLRs or interchangeable lens cameras with tiltable LCD
    >: > > > screens around. Why wouldn't a pro use them?
    >: > >
    >: > > You won't find that sort of feature above the consumer-level produts;
    >: > > in the Nikon line (the one I know) it's not on the D700, D800, or D4
    >: > > (or older models at that level).
    >: >
    >: > Actually lots of DLSRs and interchangeable lens cameras, good enough
    >: > for a "pro", have a tiltable LCD screen.
    >:
    >: those cameras may be good enough in some situations, but pros don't
    >: generally use those cameras outside of a backup, and if they do, they
    >: don't use the tiltable lcd anyway.
    >
    >Damn me, Nospam, how the hell do you know that? How much time do you spend
    >following pro photographers around to see how they use their backup cameras?
    >Too much, maybe, if you're not just bluffing.


    Look, Bob, when you're up in an airplane and you've finished your
    market survey of laptops, you've got to have *something* to do before
    the seatbelt light goes on. So, you do a pro photographer market
    research project and then you ask all the CHiPs on board where they
    aim the Lidar gunsight. Being an expert in everything is hard work.


    --
    Tony Cooper, Orlando FL
     
    Tony Cooper, Jan 18, 2013
    #38
  19. Peter Jason

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Robert Coe
    <> wrote:

    > : > Also the big disadvantage over vehicle installed Radar speed detection
    > : > is, the Lidar unit has to be stationary. So watch those overpasses and
    > : > hidden pullouts. The CHP will only use Lidar from stationary positions
    > : > whereas CHP cruisers use cycling front and rear facing Radar and are
    > : > able to clock following and head on closing vehicles. So there are
    > : > times when slowing down after you understand that car you coming up to
    > : > with the intention of passing is a CHP cruiser and your ticket is as
    > : > good as written.
    > :
    > : only if you're oblivious.
    >
    > Hardly. With modern speed measuring equipment, you have only microseconds to
    > react. By the time you see (or your detector sees) the device, your goose is
    > probably cooked.


    as i said, oblivious.

    not only are you prime meat for being pulled over, but you don't
    understand how traffic radar or radar detectors work. it's much more
    than 'only microseconds' to reliably lock a speed and a quality
    detector can give more than ample warning regardless.

    good drivers will watch for changes in traffic patterns, such as brake
    lights on vehicles ahead, changing traffic patterns, vehicles in the
    median, etc. in fact, you should be doing that all the time, regardless
    of whether you're speeding or not.

    > : > What is tough for Radar to do is isolate an individual vehicle to
    > : > clock. That takes experience and/or LiDAR.
    > :
    > : supposedly, they estimate the speed visually and confirm it with radar
    > : (or lidar), so they already know which car it is.
    > :
    > : on the other hand, a lot of times they just wait for the overspeed
    > : alarm to go off.
    >
    > Very interesting. You are aware, of course, that the Duck is a retired cop?


    yes.

    you are aware, of course, that more than just cops know how traffic
    radar and lidar works? it's not secret.
     
    nospam, Jan 18, 2013
    #39
  20. Peter Jason

    nospam Guest

    In article <2013011720163380979-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    > >> Also the big disadvantage over vehicle installed Radar speed detection
    > >> is, the Lidar unit has to be stationary. So watch those overpasses and
    > >> hidden pullouts. The CHP will only use Lidar from stationary positions
    > >> whereas CHP cruisers use cycling front and rear facing Radar and are
    > >> able to clock following and head on closing vehicles. So there are
    > >> times when slowing down after you understand that car you coming up to
    > >> with the intention of passing is a CHP cruiser and your ticket is as
    > >> good as written.

    > >
    > > only if you're oblivious.

    >
    > Not really.


    yes really.

    > If you are close enough to ID the vehicle in front of you
    > as a CHP cruiser and react, the officer has already clocked you with
    > his rear facing radar which cycles every 3 seconds with the forward
    > facing unit.


    if he's using radar, particularly rear facing radar from his stalker
    dual, then he doesn't need to be close enough to id the vehicle. he
    only needs a radar detector. in fact, even a crappy detector will pick
    up radar aimed directly at it with ample warning.

    > Also, there are many beats where you will find more than one CHP
    > cruiser which is not your typical "Black & White". There are quite a
    > few all white and some bronze/grey Crown Victoria Interceptor and Dodge
    > Charger Pursuit vehicles out there without light bars. (However they
    > still have a subdued door logo.
    > < http://home.comcast.net/~tvigil/52-CHP-SMPV_02.jpg >
    > < http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5133/5494297847_e445708eee_z.jpg >
    >
    > ...and sometimes it isn't a patrol car at all:
    > < http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef016766ca5871970b-600wi
    > >


    that doesn't matter. all of those cars have a distinctive profile.
    those who pay attention will notice it. oblivious people won't.

    > Naturally California isn't the only State to use such vehicles.
    >
    > >> What is tough for Radar to do is isolate an individual vehicle to
    > >> clock. That takes experience and/or LiDAR.

    > >
    > > supposedly, they estimate the speed visually and confirm it with radar
    > > (or lidar), so they already know which car it is.

    >
    > It is simple enough to check a vehicle's relative speed against other
    > traffic to pick it out of a crowd. That is usually the big "tell".


    exactly.

    > However, some thing a little more presentable in Court is usually
    > needed.


    and then they confirm it with radar, lidar or pacing, which they used
    to do before they got their high tech toys.

    > > on the other hand, a lot of times they just wait for the overspeed
    > > alarm to go off.

    >
    > So you have spent some time in a radar equipped cruiser have you?
    >
    > I have spent some time in Chevy Caprice cruisers, and Crown Vics.
    > Though the last Crown Vics I drove were not equipped with traffic
    > equipment, just radios, door spots, rear shelf lights, and grill lights.


    what does that prove?

    you do realize that knowing how to use traffic radar and lidar is not
    secret, right?
     
    nospam, Jan 18, 2013
    #40
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