Do you use CD or DVD for archiving?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Laser Faire, Feb 24, 2005.

  1. Laser Faire

    Laser Faire Guest

    Do you archive your images on CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-/+R, or DVD-+RW? Why?
    Which is better? Which is likely to last longer before rotting? Or
    are there other problems that can arise.

    My 30 year old negatives can still be printed. Will I be able to
    retrieve my digital images in 30 years?
     
    Laser Faire, Feb 24, 2005
    #1
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  2. Laser Faire

    Jim Waggener Guest

    "Laser Faire" <moc.seimmud4latigid@eriafresal> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > Do you archive your images on CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-/+R, or DVD-+RW? Why?
    > Which is better? Which is likely to last longer before rotting? Or
    > are there other problems that can arise.
    >
    > My 30 year old negatives can still be printed. Will I be able to
    > retrieve my digital images in 30 years?
    >

    I personally use DVD, larger space = more images, and I burn two copies. As
    far as newer technology you are just going to have to migrate from your
    current storage method to the newer. You are in affect transferring digital
    images time and time again. Whether this loses data from the original I do
    not know. You can also have your digital images transferred to film.

    Jim



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    Jim Waggener, Feb 24, 2005
    #2
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  3. Laser Faire

    Scott W Guest

    Laser Faire wrote:
    > Do you archive your images on CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-/+R, or DVD-+RW? Why?
    > Which is better? Which is likely to last longer before rotting? Or
    > are there other problems that can arise.
    >
    > My 30 year old negatives can still be printed. Will I be able to
    > retrieve my digital images in 30 years?


    I am using DVDs, the writing surface of a DVD is buried inside the disk
    and so less likely to have problem then a CD where the writing surface
    is right at the top. Things are not going obsolete as fast as many
    people would have you believe, file formats from years ago, like gif,
    still work today. Jpeg will be around for a long, long time. You might
    have to move you files to newer media from time to time and you should
    definitely have more then one copy as any DVD or CD can fail over time.

    Scott
     
    Scott W, Feb 24, 2005
    #3
  4. Laser Faire

    Alfred Molon Guest

    In article <>, Laser Faire
    says...
    > Do you archive your images on CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-/+R, or DVD-+RW? Why?
    > Which is better? Which is likely to last longer before rotting? Or
    > are there other problems that can arise.
    >
    > My 30 year old negatives can still be printed. Will I be able to
    > retrieve my digital images in 30 years?


    DVDs, because on CDs there is just not enough space for RAW files.
    --

    Alfred Molon
    ------------------------------
    Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/
     
    Alfred Molon, Feb 25, 2005
    #4
  5. >>You are in affect transferring digital
    >>images time and time again. Whether this loses data from the original I do
    >>not know.

    Only if there is a severe hardware error causing bits to be lost. In
    theory, every copy should be identical to the original.

    I think the probability of harware-introduced errors is vanishingly small
    but a single instance could be catastrophic. If you are of a paranoid
    disposition it might be a good idea just to check you can still view the
    images after each transfer.

    Keith
     
    Keith Sheppard, Feb 25, 2005
    #5
  6. Laser Faire

    Ron Guest

    I used cd's for many years and am now using dvd's. My rule of thumb is
    to make two copies -- one for the house and one for storage outside the
    house (in the trunk of my car usually) and every couple of years make
    sure that everything is backed onto new media, putting the old ones in
    the back of a filing cabinet. Of course, I keep everything on my
    computers, with one backup on a second hard drive.

    FYI, my discs from the mid-90s still read perfectly.
    Who knows what will be around 30 years from now (though you will
    certainly be able to retrieve your images), but I do have a very
    unhappy memory of all our family's old photos being lost in a very
    unexpected flood. No backups in those days.

    My next long term solution will be to put a laptop sized hard drive in
    a small USB enclosure and use it as my main 'outside the house' backup
    for images and other important files. This solution is now very, very
    inexpensive.
     
    Ron, Feb 25, 2005
    #6
  7. Laser Faire

    Larry Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > I used cd's for many years and am now using dvd's. My rule of thumb is
    > to make two copies -- one for the house and one for storage outside the
    > house (in the trunk of my car usually) and every couple of years make
    > sure that everything is backed onto new media, putting the old ones in
    > the back of a filing cabinet. Of course, I keep everything on my
    > computers, with one backup on a second hard drive.
    >
    > FYI, my discs from the mid-90s still read perfectly.
    > Who knows what will be around 30 years from now (though you will
    > certainly be able to retrieve your images), but I do have a very
    > unhappy memory of all our family's old photos being lost in a very
    > unexpected flood. No backups in those days.
    >
    > My next long term solution will be to put a laptop sized hard drive in
    > a small USB enclosure and use it as my main 'outside the house' backup
    > for images and other important files. This solution is now very, very
    > inexpensive.
    >
    >


    I'm using DvDs now, but since the very first cd writers became available I
    was using CDRs.

    I have found the price difference betweer DvD-r and CDr to have dissapeared
    with hundred packs of blank write-once DVDs down between $20 and $30 (US)
    most of the time, so there is no economy in using CDRs.

    I do, however, avoid any re-writable medium for archiving anything.

    I can still read the original 1x discs I wrote with my first old 1x burner.

    I have NEVER had a re-writable cd last more than a couple of months, so I
    gave up on them early on.

    Re-writable DvDs dont seem to have the same problems as re-writable cdrs but
    since the cost for them is high, I use them only for storage of recoded
    video, and only for short term storage... (saving Mondays CSI-Miami 'till I
    have time to watch it, ect)


    --
    Larry Lynch
    Mystic, Ct.
     
    Larry, Feb 25, 2005
    #7
  8. Laser Faire

    Ron Guest

    Hi Larry:

    Strange, but I used re-writable cd's for years with Direct CD as my
    primary backup and to this day they all read and write perfectly, and
    this after hundreds of rewrites in some cases. Maybe I lost one or two
    along the way, but I must say that they have been perfectly reliable
    regardless of brand and three generations of burners. I do use dvd-rw's
    as part of my current backup scheme, but since I've only been doing it a
    short time I have no idea of their reliability. I do agree that for
    permanent long term archiving cdr's or dvd r's would be the way to go.
    But my archiving is pretty 'short term'. The important thing is not to
    be driven nuts by this.

    /ron

    Larry wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >
    >>I used cd's for many years and am now using dvd's. My rule of thumb is
    >>to make two copies -- one for the house and one for storage outside the
    >>house (in the trunk of my car usually) and every couple of years make
    >>sure that everything is backed onto new media, putting the old ones in
    >>the back of a filing cabinet. Of course, I keep everything on my
    >>computers, with one backup on a second hard drive.
    >>
    >>FYI, my discs from the mid-90s still read perfectly.
    >>Who knows what will be around 30 years from now (though you will
    >>certainly be able to retrieve your images), but I do have a very
    >>unhappy memory of all our family's old photos being lost in a very
    >>unexpected flood. No backups in those days.
    >>
    >>My next long term solution will be to put a laptop sized hard drive in
    >>a small USB enclosure and use it as my main 'outside the house' backup
    >>for images and other important files. This solution is now very, very
    >>inexpensive.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > I'm using DvDs now, but since the very first cd writers became available I
    > was using CDRs.
    >
    > I have found the price difference betweer DvD-r and CDr to have dissapeared
    > with hundred packs of blank write-once DVDs down between $20 and $30 (US)
    > most of the time, so there is no economy in using CDRs.
    >
    > I do, however, avoid any re-writable medium for archiving anything.
    >
    > I can still read the original 1x discs I wrote with my first old 1x burner.
    >
    > I have NEVER had a re-writable cd last more than a couple of months, so I
    > gave up on them early on.
    >
    > Re-writable DvDs dont seem to have the same problems as re-writable cdrs but
    > since the cost for them is high, I use them only for storage of recoded
    > video, and only for short term storage... (saving Mondays CSI-Miami 'till I
    > have time to watch it, ect)
    >
    >
     
    Ron, Feb 25, 2005
    #8
  9. Ron wrote:
    >
    > I used cd's for many years and am now using dvd's. My rule of thumb is
    > to make two copies -- one for the house and one for storage outside the
    > house (in the trunk of my car usually)....


    You car trunk is a very bad place to store DVDs. The temperature
    cycling could cause expansion/contraction induced delamination and
    summertime high tempertures would (at least) accelerate aging.

    -Dave
     
    Dave Herzstein, Feb 25, 2005
    #9
  10. Ron commented courteously ...

    > I used cd's for many years and am now using dvd's.


    Ron and Larry...

    I've been using CD-Rs successfully for years. I have a
    drive that can read DVDs but not burn them.

    Why did you switch to DVD-R, other than the obvious very
    high capacity? Is it because you need the capacity for
    very large files, ala RAW, or large files because of very
    high resolution?

    Not thinking that I need RAW (yet) for the work I do, not
    needing to re-edit previously saved images, and not
    needing to save in the native format of PSP 8/9 (where
    pspimage files can get quite large), I've been well-
    served with JPEGs, where I get very acceptable quality by
    keeping compression quite low.

    Since I'm always trying to learn, I'm interested in your
    perspectives on DVD vs. CD. Thanks.

    --
    ATM, aka Jerry
     
    All Things Mopar, Feb 25, 2005
    #10
  11. Laser Faire

    Frank Guest

    On 25 Feb 2005 04:28:11 -0800, "Ron" <> wrote:

    >I used cd's for many years and am now using dvd's. My rule of thumb is
    >to make two copies -- one for the house and one for storage outside the
    >house (in the trunk of my car usually)


    You must not live in the southern U.S. --otherwise a summer in the
    trunk of your car would guarantee that your disks would become
    unreadable. I've had it happen to CDRs.
     
    Frank, Feb 25, 2005
    #11
  12. Laser Faire

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Alfred Molon wrote:
    > In article <>, Laser Faire
    > says...
    >
    >>Do you archive your images on CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-/+R, or DVD-+RW? Why?
    >>Which is better? Which is likely to last longer before rotting? Or
    >>are there other problems that can arise.
    >>
    >>My 30 year old negatives can still be printed. Will I be able to
    >>retrieve my digital images in 30 years?

    >
    >
    > DVDs, because on CDs there is just not enough space for RAW files.



    I use neither. The price of HD space has become so low ($.39/GB), that
    I simply use multiple HDs for storage of all my pictures. I try to keep
    them on at least 3 HDs in case of failure.
    But then my pictures aren't of economic importance.


    --
    Ron Hunter
     
    Ron Hunter, Feb 25, 2005
    #12
  13. Laser Faire

    Larry Guest

    In article <Q7GTd.1318$>, says...
    > Hi Larry:
    >
    > Strange, but I used re-writable cd's for years with Direct CD as my
    > primary backup and to this day they all read and write perfectly, and
    > this after hundreds of rewrites in some cases. Maybe I lost one or two
    > along the way, but I must say that they have been perfectly reliable
    > regardless of brand and three generations of burners. I do use dvd-rw's
    > as part of my current backup scheme, but since I've only been doing it a
    > short time I have no idea of their reliability. I do agree that for
    > permanent long term archiving cdr's or dvd r's would be the way to go.
    > But my archiving is pretty 'short term'. The important thing is not to
    > be driven nuts by this.
    >
    > /ron
    >



    I've never really let it bother me..

    I got into "burning" when a 1x burner was more than $400, the blanks were $5
    to $10 EACH and RW was just someones initials.

    The first few iterations of "Dorect CD" (packett writing) didn't work well,
    didn't work "cross platform" and gave other people FITS.. I just avoided it
    after initially thinking it might be a good thing.

    The software got better, but the price of Write Once media got so low it
    became a non issue for me.

    I dont recommend "Archiving" anything to a re-writable disk, but short term
    storage is another matter.


    --
    Larry Lynch
    Mystic, Ct.
     
    Larry, Feb 25, 2005
    #13
  14. Laser Faire

    Larry Guest

    In article <Xns96085C82C627EReplyToken@216.196.97.131>, usenetMAPS123
    @comcast.net says...
    > Ron commented courteously ...
    >
    > > I used cd's for many years and am now using dvd's.

    >
    > Ron and Larry...
    >
    > I've been using CD-Rs successfully for years. I have a
    > drive that can read DVDs but not burn them.
    >
    > Why did you switch to DVD-R, other than the obvious very
    > high capacity? Is it because you need the capacity for
    > very large files, ala RAW, or large files because of very
    > high resolution?
    >
    > Not thinking that I need RAW (yet) for the work I do, not
    > needing to re-edit previously saved images, and not
    > needing to save in the native format of PSP 8/9 (where
    > pspimage files can get quite large), I've been well-
    > served with JPEGs, where I get very acceptable quality by
    > keeping compression quite low.
    >
    > Since I'm always trying to learn, I'm interested in your
    > perspectives on DVD vs. CD. Thanks.
    >
    > --
    > ATM, aka Jerry
    >



    My change over to DVDr was simply a matter of the economy of scale.

    One memory card from any of my cameras would almost fill a cdr (512mb cards).

    The way the math works out I could, after sorting and throwing out the
    "junk" and missfires, fit about 1 and a half memory chips worth of pictures
    on a cdrom.

    Dividing the capacity of a blank DvD by 512mb gives me a MUCH higher "picture
    per dollar" return on my blank media. The cost of good blank DvDs is only
    about 2 times the cost of blank cds while the DvD disk holds 5 to 6 times as
    many pictures.

    I shoot a lot, when Im shooting, and I dont throw many away. I can fill a
    disk a day easily at a 3 or 4 day horse show.

    Fewer disks to keep track of.


    --
    Larry Lynch
    Mystic, Ct.
     
    Larry, Feb 25, 2005
    #14
  15. Ron Hunter commented courteously ...

    > I use neither. The price of HD space has become so
    > low ($.39/GB), that I simply use multiple HDs for
    > storage of all my pictures.


    An interesting thought, Ron. What might you do in case of
    a house fire or burglary of your PC(s) if you aren't
    storing your pics off-site?

    FWIW, I "backup" my pics similarly to what you do by
    mirroring them to my wife's PC across our M$ LAN, but I'm
    still vulnerable to fire/theft as well as from viruses
    going across the net So I also go to CD-R and put them
    someplace safe(er) with good environmentals.

    --
    ATM, aka Jerry
     
    All Things Mopar, Feb 25, 2005
    #15
  16. Larry commented courteously ...

    [snip]
    > I shoot a lot, when Im shooting, and I dont throw
    > many away. I can fill a disk a day easily at a 3 or
    > 4 day horse show.
    >
    > Fewer disks to keep track of.


    Makes sense to me, Larry! I'm in a completely different
    situation, hence my question.

    Thanks.

    --
    ATM, aka Jerry
     
    All Things Mopar, Feb 25, 2005
    #16
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