Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by NYC XYZ, Jan 3, 2006.

  1. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Somebody explain...how a big company like Tri-Star/Columbia Home Video
    can discontinue DVD production of critically-acclaimed flims "Carmen's
    Bizet" and " 32 Films About Glen Gould"???????

    What next? Not a very good New Year -- every other time I find some
    film of interest it's no longer available on DVD!

    God damn it, what should be unavailable is crap like "Wings of
    Honneamise"...what a video hack-job....
     
    NYC XYZ, Jan 3, 2006
    #1
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  2. NYC XYZ

    Biz Guest

    Critically acclaimed or not, if they arent selling, why should anyone keep
    producing them?

    If you know that they are sellings hundreds of thousand of copies, then
    thats a different story, but I highly doubt these are big sellers...

    "NYC XYZ" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Somebody explain...how a big company like Tri-Star/Columbia Home Video
    > can discontinue DVD production of critically-acclaimed flims "Carmen's
    > Bizet" and " 32 Films About Glen Gould"???????
    >
    > What next? Not a very good New Year -- every other time I find some
    > film of interest it's no longer available on DVD!
    >
    > God damn it, what should be unavailable is crap like "Wings of
    > Honneamise"...what a video hack-job....
    >
     
    Biz, Jan 4, 2006
    #2
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  3. NYC XYZ

    Justin Guest

    NYC XYZ wrote on [3 Jan 2006 10:54:45 -0800]:
    >
    > Somebody explain...how a big company like Tri-Star/Columbia Home Video
    > can discontinue DVD production of critically-acclaimed flims "Carmen's
    > Bizet" and " 32 Films About Glen Gould"???????


    Loss of rights, lack of sales, reissue coming with better quality...

    any of these could be the reason, and more.

    > God damn it, what should be unavailable is crap like "Wings of
    > Honneamise"...what a video hack-job....


    different company, different reasons.
     
    Justin, Jan 4, 2006
    #3
  4. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    Biz wrote:
    > Critically acclaimed or not, if they arent selling, why should anyone keep
    > producing them?
    >
    > If you know that they are sellings hundreds of thousand of copies, then
    > thats a different story, but I highly doubt these are big sellers...



    But we're talking Columbia/Tri-Star here...surely it doesn't cost
    anything, relatively speaking, to keep an inventory of fifty discs
    around?

    I'm reminded of what I'd read about F. Scott Fitzgerald's works being
    out-of-print for a decade before being rediscovered sometime in the
    '50s. Apparently, the publisher, Scribner & Sons, used to print up a
    few dozen copies each year for the odd request, before new management
    forced an entirely different business model.

    This is what Thomas Jefferson had warned about...a nation of
    shopkeepers, with the attendant boorish mentality! >=(
     
    NYC XYZ, Jan 4, 2006
    #4
  5. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    Justin wrote:
    >
    >
    > Loss of rights, lack of sales, reissue coming with better quality...
    >
    > any of these could be the reason, and more.


    Ah, loss of rights...yes, that's often the reason, actually.

    Sigh!

    > different company, different reasons.


    I should have heeded this group's old warnings and bought the Japanese
    version...the Region 1 disc is so bad I refuse to watch anymore --
    would just be spoiling what's supposed to be good anime.
     
    NYC XYZ, Jan 4, 2006
    #5
  6. NYC XYZ

    Invid Fan Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    In article <>, NYC
    XYZ <> wrote:

    > Biz wrote:
    > > Critically acclaimed or not, if they arent selling, why should anyone keep
    > > producing them?
    > >
    > > If you know that they are sellings hundreds of thousand of copies, then
    > > thats a different story, but I highly doubt these are big sellers...

    >
    >
    > But we're talking Columbia/Tri-Star here...surely it doesn't cost
    > anything, relatively speaking, to keep an inventory of fifty discs
    > around?
    >

    But it also doesn't make them any money, relatively speaking. The
    per-disk cost of burning 50 copies is a lot more then bulk runs of
    500,000, so why bother? However, if you think there is money to be made
    then this would be a good idea for a startup business. Have studios
    forward their orders for out of print titles to you, along with a copy
    of the master, and custom make new disks.

    --
    Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
    'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
    -'Deal/No Deal', CHESS
     
    Invid Fan, Jan 4, 2006
    #6
  7. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    Invid Fan wrote:
    >
    >
    > But it also doesn't make them any money, relatively speaking. The
    > per-disk cost of burning 50 copies is a lot more then bulk runs of
    > 500,000, so why bother?


    If burning DVDs is anything like printing up business cards and
    envelopes, I can tell you that if you order a print run of 200
    different cards at 10 M ("M" for "mille," or a thousand) each, it's not
    much more, if anything at all, to have an extra six or so cards at only
    1M each.

    > However, if you think there is money to be made
    > then this would be a good idea for a startup business. Have studios
    > forward their orders for out of print titles to you, along with a copy
    > of the master, and custom make new disks.


    Which is why I have to agree with the other poster that it's probably a
    matter of legal rights -- of which situation I'm reminded by your
    suggestion, because the studios surely would not license such rights
    (infringement issues, for one thing).

    Besides, it's still cheaper for them to keep fifty or so discs around
    than for any one else to start up a whole business, even without a
    storefront and a staff of just one.

    Damn, why are the dreck still available for purchase by the
    unsuspecting!

    > --
    > Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
    > 'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
    > -'Deal/No Deal', CHESS
     
    NYC XYZ, Jan 4, 2006
    #7
  8. NYC XYZ

    Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 11:14:58 -0500, Invid Fan <>
    Gave us:


    >But it also doesn't make them any money, relatively speaking. The
    >per-disk cost of burning 50 copies is a lot more then bulk runs of
    >500,000, so why bother?



    "Bulk runs" As you call them are not burned either. Studio discs
    are STAMPED. Anyone that would call burned discs a production method
    ain't real bright, and is certainly pirating (referring to the other
    ding dong).

    There ARE inventories of discontinued discs around, but they are NOT
    for sale. I'd bet that Criterion still has several hundred copies of
    SOTL around. Do you know what that disc sells for on ebay? Even used?

    > However, if you think there is money to be made
    >then this would be a good idea for a startup business. Have studios
    >forward their orders for out of print titles to you, along with a copy
    >of the master, and custom make new disks.


    You cannot burn the same disc that got stamped. They are two
    entirely different sessions.
     
    Roy L. Fuchs, Jan 4, 2006
    #8
  9. NYC XYZ

    Justin Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    NYC XYZ wrote on [4 Jan 2006 08:55:40 -0800]:
    >
    > Invid Fan wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> But it also doesn't make them any money, relatively speaking. The
    >> per-disk cost of burning 50 copies is a lot more then bulk runs of
    >> 500,000, so why bother?

    >
    > If burning DVDs is anything like printing up business cards and
    > envelopes, I can tell you that if you order a print run of 200
    > different cards at 10 M ("M" for "mille," or a thousand) each, it's not
    > much more, if anything at all, to have an extra six or so cards at only
    > 1M each.


    You don't burn DVDs, you produce them. Burning is what you do at home,
    they are pressed in large numbers

    >> However, if you think there is money to be made
    >> then this would be a good idea for a startup business. Have studios
    >> forward their orders for out of print titles to you, along with a copy
    >> of the master, and custom make new disks.

    >
    > Which is why I have to agree with the other poster that it's probably a
    > matter of legal rights -- of which situation I'm reminded by your
    > suggestion, because the studios surely would not license such rights
    > (infringement issues, for one thing).
    >
    > Besides, it's still cheaper for them to keep fifty or so discs around
    > than for any one else to start up a whole business, even without a
    > storefront and a staff of just one.


    if those 50 sell, what do they do, press 10 more?

    > Damn, why are the dreck still available for purchase by the
    > unsuspecting!


    Different companies produce different product under different business
    models. The Wings of Honneamise (I know I have spelt that incorrectly)
    is produced by Manga, I believe, not a company known for producing
    quality work on DVD.
     
    Justin, Jan 4, 2006
    #9
  10. NYC XYZ

    Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    On 4 Jan 2006 08:55:40 -0800, "NYC XYZ" <>
    Gave us:

    >cards at 10 M ("M" for "mille," or a thousand)



    In the industrial world "M" is one million. It is the abbreviation
    for Mega, not mille. mill is a small m and stands for one thousandth.
    k stands for kilo and is one thousand.
     
    Roy L. Fuchs, Jan 4, 2006
    #10
  11. NYC XYZ

    Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    On 4 Jan 2006 08:55:40 -0800, "NYC XYZ" <>
    Gave us:

    >
    >If burning DVDs is anything like printing up business cards and
    >envelopes,



    Consumers BURN DVDs. The studios do not, nor have they ever.
     
    Roy L. Fuchs, Jan 4, 2006
    #11
  12. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    Justin wrote:
    >
    >
    > You don't burn DVDs, you produce them. Burning is what you do at home,
    > they are pressed in large numbers


    Thanks for pointing that out.

    And if these presses are anything like printing presses, then I say
    again that tacking on a extra fifty or so to a run of thousands costs
    very little, if anything at all, really, especially in this digital
    age.

    > if those 50 sell, what do they do, press 10 more?


    If those fifty sell, they'd probably increase the next batch of the
    title. Presumably they press thousands of discs at regular intervals,
    and how's one title different than any of the others that are being
    run? Remember, costs are really negligible at this scale: production
    costs, inventory costs, etc.

    > Different companies produce different product under different business
    > models. The Wings of Honneamise (I know I have spelt that incorrectly)


    Is that incorrect? Works for dvdpricesearch.com!

    > is produced by Manga, I believe, not a company known for producing
    > quality work on DVD.


    That too. @#$%^&*!!
     
    NYC XYZ, Jan 4, 2006
    #12
  13. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    Roy L. Fuchs wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > In the industrial world "M" is one million. It is the abbreviation
    > for Mega, not mille. mill is a small m and stands for one thousandth.
    > k stands for kilo and is one thousand.



    Sure, in the computer world as well (generally "MB," though).

    Mille is Latin for a thousand. This is what printers go by.
     
    NYC XYZ, Jan 4, 2006
    #13
  14. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    Roy L. Fuchs wrote:
    >
    > "Bulk runs" As you call them are not burned either. Studio discs
    > are STAMPED. Anyone that would call burned discs a production method
    > ain't real bright, and is certainly pirating (referring to the other
    > ding dong).


    Well, since you raise the subject, I want to state again that CERTAIN
    KINDS OF PIRATING IS NOT REAL THEFT. I don't encourage it, I don't
    engage in it, but all this hoopla about piracy raising costs is
    BULLSHIT. For many commodities which cannot be pirated you can see
    that how prices are kept artificially high, whether we're talking
    federal argricultural products subsidies to memory chip-maker's illegal
    cartels.

    Piracy is not the reason why Big Studio DVDs cost $20 on average.
    GREED is.

    I would not turn in a pirate as long as he doesn't pirate the small
    houses (Kino, etc.). You can argue legality and morality all you want
    -- it's not thievery to pick crumbs off a robber baron's table. Most
    people don't consider piracy a problem, and for good reason.

    They know it's a bullshit crime, almost as harmless as jay-walking on
    average.

    > There ARE inventories of discontinued discs around, but they are NOT
    > for sale. I'd bet that Criterion still has several hundred copies of
    > SOTL around. Do you know what that disc sells for on ebay? Even used?


    No, why?

    And why are there inventories of discontinued products? Why not just
    sell them? Presumably they've been discontinued due to poor sales. It
    costs money to store them. That's why Atari buried its excess game
    cartridges in the desert -- and deliberately ran them over first to
    prevent looting!

    I just don't understand it.

    > You cannot burn the same disc that got stamped. They are two
    > entirely different sessions.


    I am reminded of Ogden Nash's "The Purist":

    I give you now Professor Twist,
    a conscientious scientist.
    Trustees exclaimed, "He never bungles!"
    and sent him off to distant jungles.
    Camped on a tropic riverside,
    one day he missed his loving bride.
    She had, the guide informed him later,
    been eaten by an alligator.
    Professor Twist could not but smile.
    "You mean," he said, "a crocodile."
     
    NYC XYZ, Jan 4, 2006
    #14
  15. NYC XYZ

    Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    On 4 Jan 2006 12:28:02 -0800, "NYC XYZ" <>
    Gave us:

    >Roy L. Fuchs wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> In the industrial world "M" is one million. It is the abbreviation
    >> for Mega, not mille. mill is a small m and stands for one thousandth.
    >> k stands for kilo and is one thousand.

    >
    >
    >Sure, in the computer world as well (generally "MB," though).
    >
    >Mille is Latin for a thousand. This is what printers go by.



    We ALL use the METRIC system these days. So do DISC "publishers"

    I'd bet that book publisher do as well.

    Little m is mille or 1/1000.

    Little k is kilo 1000

    Capital M is Mega or MILLION.
     
    Roy L. Fuchs, Jan 4, 2006
    #15
  16. NYC XYZ

    Justin Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    NYC XYZ wrote on [4 Jan 2006 12:27:44 -0800]:
    > Justin wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> You don't burn DVDs, you produce them. Burning is what you do at home,
    >> they are pressed in large numbers

    >
    > Thanks for pointing that out.
    >
    > And if these presses are anything like printing presses, then I say
    > again that tacking on a extra fifty or so to a run of thousands costs
    > very little, if anything at all, really, especially in this digital
    > age.


    Oh, certainly, costs per unit go down dramatically the more you produce.

    >> if those 50 sell, what do they do, press 10 more?

    >
    > If those fifty sell, they'd probably increase the next batch of the
    > title. Presumably they press thousands of discs at regular intervals,
    > and how's one title different than any of the others that are being
    > run? Remember, costs are really negligible at this scale: production
    > costs, inventory costs, etc.


    If those 50 take 5 years to sell they'd most likely not make a next
    batch.

    >> Different companies produce different product under different business
    >> models. The Wings of Honneamise (I know I have spelt that incorrectly)

    >
    > Is that incorrect? Works for dvdpricesearch.com!


    Well, maybe it is correct. Who knew!
     
    Justin, Jan 4, 2006
    #16
  17. NYC XYZ

    Justin Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    NYC XYZ wrote on [4 Jan 2006 12:28:02 -0800]:
    > Roy L. Fuchs wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> In the industrial world "M" is one million. It is the abbreviation
    >> for Mega, not mille. mill is a small m and stands for one thousandth.
    >> k stands for kilo and is one thousand.

    >
    >
    > Sure, in the computer world as well (generally "MB," though).


    No, MB would be MegaBytes. M is Mega.
     
    Justin, Jan 4, 2006
    #17
  18. NYC XYZ

    Justin Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    Roy L Fuchs wrote on [Wed, 04 Jan 2006 20:42:47 GMT]:
    > On 4 Jan 2006 12:28:02 -0800, "NYC XYZ" <>
    > Gave us:
    >
    >>Roy L. Fuchs wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> In the industrial world "M" is one million. It is the abbreviation
    >>> for Mega, not mille. mill is a small m and stands for one thousandth.
    >>> k stands for kilo and is one thousand.

    >>
    >>
    >>Sure, in the computer world as well (generally "MB," though).
    >>
    >>Mille is Latin for a thousand. This is what printers go by.

    >
    >
    > We ALL use the METRIC system these days. So do DISC "publishers"
    >
    > I'd bet that book publisher do as well.
    >
    > Little m is mille or 1/1000.


    milli
     
    Justin, Jan 4, 2006
    #18
  19. NYC XYZ

    Justin Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    NYC XYZ wrote on [4 Jan 2006 12:28:20 -0800]:
    > Roy L. Fuchs wrote:
    >>
    >> "Bulk runs" As you call them are not burned either. Studio discs
    >> are STAMPED. Anyone that would call burned discs a production method
    >> ain't real bright, and is certainly pirating (referring to the other
    >> ding dong).

    >
    > Well, since you raise the subject, I want to state again that CERTAIN
    > KINDS OF PIRATING IS NOT REAL THEFT. I don't encourage it, I don't
    > engage in it, but all this hoopla about piracy raising costs is
    > BULLSHIT. For many commodities which cannot be pirated you can see
    > that how prices are kept artificially high, whether we're talking
    > federal argricultural products subsidies to memory chip-maker's illegal
    > cartels.
    >
    > Piracy is not the reason why Big Studio DVDs cost $20 on average.
    > GREED is.


    No, production costs are the reason. Movies aren't free. Most movies do
    not break even in the theatrical run. Distribution and labour also
    aren't free, do you think movies put themself onto DVDs and then take
    themself to the store?

    > They know it's a bullshit crime, almost as harmless as jay-walking on
    > average.


    If someone wasn't going to buy something if it wasn't free, this is
    true. The number of sales actually lost is incalculable.


    > And why are there inventories of discontinued products? Why not just
    > sell them?


    in the example, Silence of the Lambs, Criterion lost the license. I know
    that if I produced something I would make certain to have enough copies
    on hand to never have no copies, no matter how many I had given away as
    examples of my work.

    > Presumably they've been discontinued due to poor sales.


    Sometimes
     
    Justin, Jan 4, 2006
    #19
  20. NYC XYZ

    Justin Guest

    Re: Discontinued! @#$%^&*!!

    Roy L Fuchs wrote on [Wed, 04 Jan 2006 21:06:33 GMT]:
    > On 4 Jan 2006 12:28:20 -0800, "NYC XYZ" <>
    > Gave us:
    >
    >>Roy L. Fuchs wrote:
    >>>
    >>> "Bulk runs" As you call them are not burned either. Studio discs
    >>> are STAMPED. Anyone that would call burned discs a production method
    >>> ain't real bright, and is certainly pirating (referring to the other
    >>> ding dong).

    >>
    >>Piracy is not the reason why Big Studio DVDs cost $20 on average.
    >>GREED is.

    >
    > Absolutely not. The price is quite reasonable, and cost of
    > manufacture has nothing to do with it nor does piracy concerns. It
    > just happens to be an acceptable price point to any civil adult. It's
    > you piss and moan retards that need to manufacture reasons why you
    > think you are being ripped off that have a problem. You need to learn
    > how to conform to societies norms, not try to make them up as you go
    > along. The opinion of you and your bar room buddies is *not* that
    > norm.


    Of course, Big Studio DVDs cost under $20, on average. If you wait 6
    months they are even cheaper. I never pay more than $15 for a Big Studio
    DVD on release day. I often pay 10 or less, not on release day anymore,
    but I have one of those virtue thingies, patience.
     
    Justin, Jan 4, 2006
    #20
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