Disappointing 10d results

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Ted Rogers, Aug 31, 2003.

  1. Ted Rogers

    Ted Rogers Guest

    I've been using my 10D for a couple of weeks now and have found myself
    having to do a great deal of post image processing in Photoshop to achieve
    acceptable results.

    I have posted an example to illustrate this at www.metafazeuk.com/10d

    All I did with the bottom right hand portion of the image is to adjust the
    levels and saturation.(I have posted the exif data below).

    Any ideas what is happening here?

    Thanks

    Ted

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    Ted Rogers, Aug 31, 2003
    #1
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  2. Ted Rogers

    Ted Rogers Guest

    "dslr" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Ted Rogers wrote:
    > >
    > > I've been using my 10D for a couple of weeks now and have found myself
    > > having to do a great deal of post image processing in Photoshop to

    achieve
    > > acceptable results.
    > >
    > > I have posted an example to illustrate this at www.metafazeuk.com/10d
    > >
    > > All I did with the bottom right hand portion of the image is to adjust

    the
    > > levels and saturation.(I have posted the exif data below).
    > >
    > > Any ideas what is happening here?
    > >

    >
    > Looks like it was underexposed- are you using the histogram to check
    > your results?
    >

    Many thanks for the replies - I have added a screengrab of the histogram in
    Photoshop to that page in a hope that you can help me further- much
    appreciated.

    Ted
     
    Ted Rogers, Aug 31, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Ted Rogers

    dslr Guest

    Ted Rogers wrote:
    >
    > "dslr" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Ted Rogers wrote:
    > > >
    > > > I've been using my 10D for a couple of weeks now and have found myself
    > > > having to do a great deal of post image processing in Photoshop to

    > achieve
    > > > acceptable results.
    > > >
    > > > I have posted an example to illustrate this at www.metafazeuk.com/10d
    > > >
    > > > All I did with the bottom right hand portion of the image is to adjust

    > the
    > > > levels and saturation.(I have posted the exif data below).
    > > >
    > > > Any ideas what is happening here?
    > > >

    > >
    > > Looks like it was underexposed- are you using the histogram to check
    > > your results?
    > >

    > Many thanks for the replies - I have added a screengrab of the histogram in
    > Photoshop to that page in a hope that you can help me further- much
    > appreciated.


    Yep, it's quite well down with hardly any tones above the 2/3 point, 1
    maybe 1½ stops under.

    If you haven't already done so, I'd recommend setting the camera to show
    you the histogram after each shot - in the menu it's Review-> On (Info).
    I set mine to that and a review time of 2 seconds, you can set longer if
    you want. Failing that, whilst reviewing the shot you can press the Info
    button to get the same thing.

    That way, you can see the histogram straightaway and decide if it ws OK
    or not. The thing to aim for is to get the tones evenly spread, but
    without getting them "stacked" up against one end or the other - to the
    right is overexposed, to the left is under. If it's unbalanced (like
    this one) dial in some exposure compensation to increase or decrease the
    exposure.
    If it's exposed to the point that some areas whites are burnt out, the
    small image in the Info display will blink black & white on those areas,
    a useful tool in your armoury.

    --
    regards,
    dslr
     
    dslr, Aug 31, 2003
    #3
  4. Ted Rogers

    Ted Rogers Guest

    >
    > Yep, it's quite well down with hardly any tones above the 2/3 point, 1
    > maybe 1½ stops under.
    >
    > If you haven't already done so, I'd recommend setting the camera to show
    > you the histogram after each shot - in the menu it's Review-> On (Info).
    > I set mine to that and a review time of 2 seconds, you can set longer if
    > you want. Failing that, whilst reviewing the shot you can press the Info
    > button to get the same thing.
    >
    > That way, you can see the histogram straightaway and decide if it ws OK
    > or not. The thing to aim for is to get the tones evenly spread, but
    > without getting them "stacked" up against one end or the other - to the
    > right is overexposed, to the left is under. If it's unbalanced (like
    > this one) dial in some exposure compensation to increase or decrease the
    > exposure.
    > If it's exposed to the point that some areas whites are burnt out, the
    > small image in the Info display will blink black & white on those areas,
    > a useful tool in your armoury.
    >
    > --
    > regards,
    > dslr


    Brilliant - many thanks for your help. Its a cloudy day (what's new here in
    Wales!) so I'm off for a days shooting to try out your advice.

    Ted
     
    Ted Rogers, Aug 31, 2003
    #4
  5. Ted Rogers

    Boris Harss Guest

    Hi, Ted!

    > Many thanks for the replies - I have added a screengrab of the histogram in
    > Photoshop to that page in a hope that you can help me further- much
    > appreciated.


    I would assume, that the D10 behaves like a semi-professional Film
    camera when set to modes other than to the "Toy-Modes". You used
    Apperture Priority, which is not a toy mode, so the camera should behave
    in a predictibal way, i.e. not do anything that you do not control.

    Note that the image has no great contrast - therefor the full dynamic
    range is not used (see your diagram). What kind of a diagram do you
    expect when you photograph a white wall with the camera settings you
    used? I expect (ideally) one peak at "middle grey" and a grey image.
    Note that no area in your image is under- or overexposed, i.e. in
    saturation white or black. In my opinion, the camera performed
    absolutely OK, a professional film-camera would have done the same. What
    is important is that the image is "printable" in the sense that
    adjustments to get a "fine print" are possible. I personally adjust
    every single immage I take (and keep), even if it is only a little bit.

    White balance was touched by annother contributer. Besides his point,
    I'd allway expect to have to tweek is a bit. This is done when you
    *print* a conventional photograph from the negative by adjusting filters
    and times - the digital ages just allows you to do a *rough* adjustment
    already at the time of picture taking.

    Why do pictures take with a camera like a Canon Axx look crispier when
    they come out of the camera? Well, the camera processes the image making
    standard assumtions and without allowing you to inrefere - thereby
    possibly loosing/altering information that was initially recorded. An
    unacceptable behaviour for a professional user or advanced amateur.

    I highly recommend a the books of Anselm Adams (or, in a medernized
    version) of John P. Schaefer on Exposing and Printing. They are
    obviously written for Film, but the basic principal is exactly the same
    - compare the CMOS Sensor to slide film with limited dynamic range.
    Maybe, there is one of this quality for digital photograpy by now?

    Cheers,
    B.
     
    Boris Harss, Aug 31, 2003
    #5
  6. Ted Rogers

    dslr Guest

    Ted Rogers wrote:
    >
    >
    > Brilliant - many thanks for your help. Its a cloudy day (what's new here in
    > Wales!) so I'm off for a days shooting to try out your advice.


    You're welcome, Ted. Do let us know how you get on.
    My email address as displayed is valid if you want to email me directly.

    --
    regards,
    dslr
     
    dslr, Aug 31, 2003
    #6
  7. Ted Rogers

    Guest

    In message <>,
    "Ted Rogers" <> wrote:

    >I've been using my 10D for a couple of weeks now and have found myself
    >having to do a great deal of post image processing in Photoshop to achieve
    >acceptable results.
    >
    >I have posted an example to illustrate this at www.metafazeuk.com/10d
    >
    >All I did with the bottom right hand portion of the image is to adjust the
    >levels and saturation.(I have posted the exif data below).
    >
    >Any ideas what is happening here?


    Are you using Adobe RGB color? It is not good for JPEGs right out of
    the camera.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
     
    , Aug 31, 2003
    #7
  8. Ted Rogers

    Guest

    In message <bisfdm$n6c$>,
    Boris Harss <> wrote:

    >They are
    >obviously written for Film, but the basic principal is exactly the same
    >- compare the CMOS Sensor to slide film with limited dynamic range.


    The dynamic range of the 10D is not exactly low at ISO 100. In raw
    mode, you get more highlights than in JPEG mode, so expect at least a
    stop there, and there is virtually no noise in the shadows, so there is
    a lot of detail to be brought up there. Of course, all this data is
    nearly linear, as opposed to film with its non-linear curves, so you
    have to bend it a bit to get it into a usable dynamic range.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
     
    , Aug 31, 2003
    #8
  9. Ted Rogers

    Guest

    In message <>,
    "Mark B." <> wrote:

    >Ted, another thing you might want to consider is using raw mode. If you
    >forget to set the white balance, or change it when lighting conditions
    >change (I do this frequently), it's an easy fix to set it during conversion.
    >Also, with the better conversion programs you can make histogram and curve
    >adjustments at time of conversion.


    RAW is also much better for boosting contrast; you won't get any
    noticeable posterization.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
     
    , Aug 31, 2003
    #9
  10. "dslr" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Ted Rogers wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > Brilliant - many thanks for your help. Its a cloudy day (what's new here

    in
    > > Wales!) so I'm off for a days shooting to try out your advice.

    >
    > You're welcome, Ted. Do let us know how you get on.
    > My email address as displayed is valid if you want to email me directly.


    But why would his camera not be exposing correctly in the first place?

    Gary Eickmeier
     
    Gary Eickmeier, Aug 31, 2003
    #10
  11. "Boris Harss" <> wrote in message
    news:bisfdm$n6c$...
    > I highly recommend a the books of Anselm Adams (or, in a medernized
    > version) of John P. Schaefer on Exposing and Printing. They are
    > obviously written for Film, but the basic principal is exactly the same
    > - compare the CMOS Sensor to slide film with limited dynamic range.
    > Maybe, there is one of this quality for digital photograpy by now?


    Boris, you want to give me a quick rundown on how you employ Ansel Adams'
    zone system in shots of your kid running around? Why can't we depend on the
    metering system of our cameras to give decent exposure?

    Gary Eickmeier
     
    Gary Eickmeier, Aug 31, 2003
    #11
  12. Ted Rogers

    Todd Walker Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Many thanks for the replies - I have added a screengrab of the histogram in
    > Photoshop to that page in a hope that you can help me further- much
    > appreciated.
    >
    > Ted
    >


    Ted,

    Look at the histogram that you posted -- see the arrows under the graph?
    If you grab the right most arrow and pull it to the left to the point
    where the "lump" of picture information is, then do the same with the
    leftmost arrow, pulling it to the right, I guarantee you will have a
    quite usable picture there. You can also move the middle slider to the
    left to bring out detail in the shadows if you wish. You may have to
    dial in some contrast after doing so as well. I've put together a quick
    little tutorial for you to demonstrate what I am talking about:

    http://twalker.d2g.com/tutorials/levels

    When you look at the histogram, you are looking at the distribution of
    brightness values from solid black on the left to solid white on the
    right. Any areas that are blank to the left or right of the graph are
    wasted because there is no information in those brightness ranges. When
    you follow the procedure I have outlined, you are "stretching" the
    distribution of brightness to cover the entire gamut, therefore
    correcting the exposure. Ideally you want the histogram to cover the
    whole range to begin with. If it doesn't, you are wasting a portion of
    the camera's dynamic range. But on those shots that look like this, you
    can manually stretch the image information to get the best results from
    what you have to work with.

    --
    ________________________________
    Todd Walker
    http://twalker.d2g.com
    Canon 10D:
    http://twalker.d2g.com/canon10d
    My Digital Photography Weblog:
    http://twalker.d2g.com/dpblog.htm
    _________________________________
     
    Todd Walker, Aug 31, 2003
    #12
  13. Ted Rogers

    dslr Guest

    Gary Eickmeier wrote:
    >
    > "dslr" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Ted Rogers wrote:
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Brilliant - many thanks for your help. Its a cloudy day (what's new here

    > in
    > > > Wales!) so I'm off for a days shooting to try out your advice.

    > >
    > > You're welcome, Ted. Do let us know how you get on.
    > > My email address as displayed is valid if you want to email me directly.

    >
    > But why would his camera not be exposing correctly in the first place?


    It probably is - for what it thinks is the correct exposure, which is
    not always correct.
    Extreme cases - snow scenes or black cats in coal cellars always require
    exposure compensation

    --
    regards,
    dslr
     
    dslr, Aug 31, 2003
    #13
  14. Ted Rogers

    Brian Z Guest

    Ted,
    I think there are a couple of issues here, one with the particular sample
    shot and the other with the 10D itself with regard to its default settings
    versus what you expect from it.
    First, the sample you posted appears to be underexposed. That was a clever
    way to show the before and after, by the way, and very helpful to have all
    the EXIF data. In looking at the corrected part of your image, if you run
    the eyedropper over it in your photo editor, you'll see the RGB values are
    on the high side of the 256 range, so the background is rather light. Since
    the brightly lit background appears to occupy about 2/3 of the entire image
    area, and you are not spot metering on the subject, it stands to reason that
    your image may be underexposed as your camera will tend to meter for average
    lightness. In this situation, you have to evaluate the scene and think
    about what the camera will do with it, and for a backlit subject, you will
    either need to dial in some exposure compensation on the plus side or use
    spot metering to tell the camera to ignore the bright background. The 10D
    is a great camera with lots of tools at your disposal, and most exposures of
    average scenes will be well exposed, but for other than average scenes,
    don't expect the camera to compensate automatically. Also don't expect the
    default settings to give you the optimal end results without editing and
    that is the next issue...
    Second, with regard to 10D exposures in general, the default settings are
    somewhat conservative compared to many other digital cameras, particularly
    point and shoot types which may tend to show higher contrast, color
    saturation and sharpness right out of the camera. The 10D default settings
    will give a lesser amount of these things at default settings, so as to not
    ruin your images with over-saturation and over sharpening, for example, so
    that you have more control over the final result. If you're looking for
    more contrasty, more saturated and sharper images right out of the camera,
    then adjust those settings to your liking to minimize the amount of post
    processing. Just be prepared that sometimes you will get more than you
    might want and there might not be much you can do to fix it.
    I would say that the 10D is a camera for those who would expect to do some
    amount of post processing at the default settings.
    -Brian


    "Ted Rogers" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I've been using my 10D for a couple of weeks now and have found myself
    > having to do a great deal of post image processing in Photoshop to achieve
    > acceptable results.
    >
    > I have posted an example to illustrate this at www.metafazeuk.com/10d
    >
    > All I did with the bottom right hand portion of the image is to adjust the
    > levels and saturation.(I have posted the exif data below).
    >
    > Any ideas what is happening here?
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Ted
    >
    > Filename : IMG_5035.JPG
    > JFIF_APP1 : Exif
    > Main Information
    > Make : Canon
    > Model : Canon EOS 10D
    > Orientation : left-hand side
    > XResolution : 180/1
    > YResolution : 180/1
    > ResolutionUnit : Inch
    > DateTime : 2003:08:25 10:24:49
    > YCbCrPositioning : centered
    > ExifInfoOffset : 196
    > Sub Information
    > ExposureTime : 1/500Sec
    > FNumber : F5.6
    > ISOSpeedRatings : 200
    > ExifVersion : 0220
    > DateTimeOriginal : 2003:08:25 10:24:49
    > DateTimeDigitized : 2003:08:25 10:24:49
    > ComponentConfiguration : YCbCr
    > CompressedBitsPerPixel : 3/1 (bit/pixel)
    > ShutterSpeedValue : 1/500Sec
    > ApertureValue : F5.6
    > ExposureBiasValue : EV0.0
    > MaxApertureValue : F4.5
    > MeteringMode : Division
    > Flash : Not fired
    > FocalLength : 160.00(mm)
    > MakerNote : Canon Format : 1372Byte (Offset:942)
    > UserComment :
    > FlashPixVersion : 0100
    > ColorSpace : Uncalibrated
    > ExifImageWidth : 3072
    > ExifImageHeight : 2048
    > FocalPlaneXResolution : 3072000/892
    > FocalPlaneYResolution : 2048000/595
    > FocalPlaneResolutionUnit : Meter
    > SensingMethod : OneChipColorArea sensor
    > FileSource : DSC
    > CustomRendered : Normal process
    > ExposureMode : Auto
    > WhiteBalance : Auto
    > SceneCaptureType : Standard
    > Vendor Original Information
    > MacroMode : Unknown (0)
    > Self-timer : Off
    > Quality : Fine
    > FlashMode : Off
    > Drive Mode : Single-frame
    > Focus Mode : One-Shot
    > ImageSize : Large
    > Easy shooting mode : Manual
    > Digital Zoom : Off
    > Contrast : Normal
    > Saturation : Normal
    > Sharpness : Normal
    > MeteringMode : Evaluative
    > AF point selected : Unknown (16385)
    > ExposureProgram : Aperture Priority
    > Focal length of lens : 75-300(mm)
    > Flash Activity : Off
    > Color Tone : Normal
    > Unknown (0001)3,46 : 005C 0000 0000 0003 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0001

    0000
    > 0001 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0003 0002 4001 0003 7FFF FFFF 012C 004B 0001
    > 008B 0140 0000 0000 0000 0000 FFFF FFFF FFFF 0000 0C00 0C00 0000 FFFF FFFF
    > 0000 0000 7FFF FFFF FFFF
    > Unknown (0002)3,4 : 0,160,914,610
    > Unknown (0003)3,4 : 100,0,0,0
    > White Balance : Auto
    > Sequence number(Continuous mode) : 0
    > Flash bias : 0 EV
    > Unknown (0004)3,33 : 0042 0000 00C0 0104 009F 011F 0000 0000 0003 0000

    0008
    > 0008 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0001 0000 0000 00A0 0124 0098 0000 0000
    > 00FC 0000 FFFF 0000 0000 0000 0000
    > Unknown (0093)3,9 : 18,0,0,0,0,0,65535,65535,65535
    > Image type : IMG:EOS10DJPEG
    > Firmware version : FirmwareVersion1.0.1
    > Serial number :
    > Unknown (0015)4,1 : -1879048192
    > Image Number : 1505035
    > Owner name :
    > Unknown (0010)4,1 : -2147483288
    > Unknown (000E)4,1 : 1852569
    > Unknown (000D)1,512 :
    >

    0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.B3.87.0.0.41.C4.0.2.69.37.0.6.1B.25.0.E.
    >

    FC.F7.0.1E.48.0.0.9B.67.77.1.1A.7F.89.0.3B.2D.8C.0.2.69.1E.0.2.E.23.0.2.6F.7
    >

    9.0.1.3.FA.0.0.5C.C6.0.3.64.22.0.8.6B.5F.0.14.41.36.0.28.7E.3.0.CA.6C.33.1.6
    >

    B.67.3.0.4A.DE.FE.0.2.89.CE.0.2.1.2C.0.2.58.10.0.1.2A.85.0.0.66.4E.0.3.93.4E
    >

    ..0.8.9B.DB.0.14.76.8A.0.28.B8.A3.0.CA.B6.70.1.64.E1.35.0.47.8A.1F.0.2.88.31.
    >

    0.2.11.25.0.2.67.7.0.0.B6.47.0.0.3B.A3.0.2.16.6D.0.4.F8.B1.0.B.65.9F.0.15.91
    >

    ..94.0.65.87.C1.0.B0.DD.D2.0.23.42.E7.0.0.FF.E9.0.0.BC.CA.0.0.D6.1B.0.0.2.55.
    >

    0.0.0.AC.0.0.5.D0.0.0.C.98.0.0.1A.BB.0.0.37.6F.0.1.26.AE.0.1.F7.ED.0.0.69.FA
    >

    ..0.0.8.1E.0.0.8.92.0.0.A.4F.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.
    >

    0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.
    >

    0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.
    >

    0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.
    >

    0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.
    >

    0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.
    >

    0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.
    > 0.0.0.0
    > CustomFunctions :
    > Fn1.NoiseReduction : Off
    > Fn2.Shutter/AE-lock buttons : AF/AE lock
    > Fn3.Mirror lookup : Disable
    > Fn4.Tv/Av and exposure level : 1/2EV
    > Fn5.AF-assist light : On(Auto)
    > Fn6.Shutter speed in Av mode : Auto
    > Fn7.AEB sequence/auto cancellation : 0,-,+/Enabled
    > Fn8.Shutter curtain sync : 1st-curtain sync
    > Fn9.Lens AF stop button Fn. Switch : AF stop
    > Fn10.Auto reduction of fill flash : On
    > Fn11.Menu button return position : Top
    > Fn12.SET button func. when shooting : Not assigned
    > Fn13.Sensor cleaning : Off
    > Fn14.Superimposed display : On
    > Fn15.Shutter release w/o CF card : Possible w/out CF card
    > Unknown (000F)3,18 : 0024 0100 0200 0300 0400 0500 0600 0700 0800 0900

    0A00
    > 0B00 0C00 0D00 0E00 0F00 1000 1100
    > Unknown (00C0)3,13 : 001A 0136 0170 0175 00A6 00F6 01C9 01CF 0116 00B4

    01FF
    > 0205 01A3
    > Unknown (00C1)3,13 : 001A 0144 016C 016D 00A0 00F1 01AC 01AE 00FD 00B3

    01E4
    > 01E7 018F
    > Unknown (00AA)3,5 : 10,968,1021,1027,918
    > Unknown (00A8)3,10 : 20,4739,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    > Unknown (00A9)3,41 :
    >

    82,1692,837,826,1057,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    > ,0,0,0,0,128,127,128,127
    > Unknown (00AE)3,1 : 5200
    > Unknown (00B4)3,1 : 2
    > Unknown (0012)3,24 :
    >

    7,7,3072,2048,3072,2048,151,151,1014,608,0,0,0,64928,64522,0,0,65030,0,506,0
    > ,0,16,65535
    > Unknown (0013)3,4 : 0,159,7,112
    > Unknown (0000)3,5 : 0,0,0,0,0
    > Thumbnail Information
    > Compression : OLDJPEG
    > XResolution : 180/1
    > YResolution : 180/1
    > ResolutionUnit : Inch
    > JPEGInterchangeFormat : 2548
    > JPEGInterchangeFormatLength : 6656
    >
    >
     
    Brian Z, Aug 31, 2003
    #14
  15. Ted Rogers

    Bob & Anni Guest

    Bob & Anni, Aug 31, 2003
    #15
  16. Ted Rogers

    Mark B. Guest

    "Jerry" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,

    REVERSETHIS-ten.tsacmoc@ZLB
    > says...
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > >I would say that the 10D is a camera for those who would expect to do

    some
    > >amount of post processing at the default settings.

    >
    > Would this apply to the Digital Rebel as well?
    >
    > TIA
    >
    > See ya...Jerry
    >


    Same sensor, same image processing engine. I would say yes, but you might
    want to wait for full reviews - dpreview.com should be posting one next
    week.

    Mark
     
    Mark B., Sep 1, 2003
    #16
  17. Ted Rogers

    Guest

    In message <H8p4b.4290$>,
    "Gary Eickmeier" <> wrote:

    >"dslr" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Ted Rogers wrote:
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Brilliant - many thanks for your help. Its a cloudy day (what's new here

    >in
    >> > Wales!) so I'm off for a days shooting to try out your advice.

    >>
    >> You're welcome, Ted. Do let us know how you get on.
    >> My email address as displayed is valid if you want to email me directly.

    >
    >But why would his camera not be exposing correctly in the first place?


    It doesn't look like it's exposed wrong, at all, as far as automatic
    exposure is concerned. It is the contrast which is lacking. This could
    be due to the subject, settings, or Adobe RGB color space.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
     
    , Sep 1, 2003
    #17
  18. Ted Rogers

    Stuart Guest

    I too have a 10D. I have never used any of the point-and-shoot settings -
    didnt buy it for that type of facility. But for me AWB usually works OK -
    and P mode is good for getting the initial EV values sensed.
    There are some excellent points made in this thread so far. The camera
    histogram will tell you a lot.

    Just a little tip: use the RAW plugin on Photoshop - you can immediately
    correct for Colour temperature and exposure very quickly before getting into
    any other processing. Also - use Levels and then possibly Curves for any
    subsequent corrections. If needed finish with Unsharp mask. You should be
    able to process a single photo in a matter just 1 or 2 minutes when you get
    used to this workflow.

    Stuart

    "Ted Rogers" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I've been using my 10D for a couple of weeks now and have found myself
    > having to do a great deal of post image processing in Photoshop to achieve
    > acceptable results.
    >
    > I have posted an example to illustrate this at www.metafazeuk.com/10d
    >
    > All I did with the bottom right hand portion of the image is to adjust the
    > levels and saturation.(I have posted the exif data below).
    >
    > Any ideas what is happening here?
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Ted
    >
    > Filename : IMG_5035.JPG
    > JFIF_APP1 : Exif
    > Main Information
    > Make : Canon
    > Model : Canon EOS 10D
    > Orientation : left-hand side
    > XResolution : 180/1
    > YResolution : 180/1
    > ResolutionUnit : Inch
    > DateTime : 2003:08:25 10:24:49
    > YCbCrPositioning : centered
    > ExifInfoOffset : 196
    > Sub Information
    > ExposureTime : 1/500Sec
    > FNumber : F5.6
    > ISOSpeedRatings : 200
    > ExifVersion : 0220
    > DateTimeOriginal : 2003:08:25 10:24:49
    > DateTimeDigitized : 2003:08:25 10:24:49
    > ComponentConfiguration : YCbCr
    > CompressedBitsPerPixel : 3/1 (bit/pixel)
    > ShutterSpeedValue : 1/500Sec
    > ApertureValue : F5.6
    > ExposureBiasValue : EV0.0
    > MaxApertureValue : F4.5
    > MeteringMode : Division
    > Flash : Not fired
    > FocalLength : 160.00(mm)
    > MakerNote : Canon Format : 1372Byte (Offset:942)
    > UserComment :
    > FlashPixVersion : 0100
    > ColorSpace : Uncalibrated
    > ExifImageWidth : 3072
    > ExifImageHeight : 2048
    > FocalPlaneXResolution : 3072000/892
    > FocalPlaneYResolution : 2048000/595
    > FocalPlaneResolutionUnit : Meter
    > SensingMethod : OneChipColorArea sensor
    > FileSource : DSC
    > CustomRendered : Normal process
    > ExposureMode : Auto
    > WhiteBalance : Auto
    > SceneCaptureType : Standard
    > Vendor Original Information
    > MacroMode : Unknown (0)
    > Self-timer : Off
    > Quality : Fine
    > FlashMode : Off
    > Drive Mode : Single-frame
    > Focus Mode : One-Shot
    > ImageSize : Large
    > Easy shooting mode : Manual
    > Digital Zoom : Off
    > Contrast : Normal
    > Saturation : Normal
    > Sharpness : Normal
    > MeteringMode : Evaluative
    > AF point selected : Unknown (16385)
    > ExposureProgram : Aperture Priority
    > Focal length of lens : 75-300(mm)
    > Flash Activity : Off
    > Color Tone : Normal
    > Unknown (0001)3,46 : 005C 0000 0000 0003 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0001

    0000
    > 0001 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0003 0002 4001 0003 7FFF FFFF 012C 004B 0001
    > 008B 0140 0000 0000 0000 0000 FFFF FFFF FFFF 0000 0C00 0C00 0000 FFFF FFFF
    > 0000 0000 7FFF FFFF FFFF
    > Unknown (0002)3,4 : 0,160,914,610
    > Unknown (0003)3,4 : 100,0,0,0
    > White Balance : Auto
    > Sequence number(Continuous mode) : 0
    > Flash bias : 0 EV
    > Unknown (0004)3,33 : 0042 0000 00C0 0104 009F 011F 0000 0000 0003 0000

    0008
    > 0008 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0001 0000 0000 00A0 0124 0098 0000 0000
    > 00FC 0000 FFFF 0000 0000 0000 0000
    > Unknown (0093)3,9 : 18,0,0,0,0,0,65535,65535,65535
    > Image type : IMG:EOS10DJPEG
    > Firmware version : FirmwareVersion1.0.1
    > Serial number :
    > Unknown (0015)4,1 : -1879048192
    > Image Number : 1505035
    > Owner name :
    > Unknown (0010)4,1 : -2147483288
    > Unknown (000E)4,1 : 1852569
    > Unknown (000D)1,512 :
    >

    0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.B3.87.0.0.41.C4.0.2.69.37.0.6.1B.25.0.E.
    > FC.F7.0.1E.48.0.0.9B.67.77.1.1A.7F.89.0.3B.2D.8C.0.2.69.1E.0.2.E.23.0.2.6F

    ..7
    >

    9.0.1.3.FA.0.0.5C.C6.0.3.64.22.0.8.6B.5F.0.14.41.36.0.28.7E.3.0.CA.6C.33.1.6
    >

    B.67.3.0.4A.DE.FE.0.2.89.CE.0.2.1.2C.0.2.58.10.0.1.2A.85.0.0.66.4E.0.3.93.4E
    >

    ..0.8.9B.DB.0.14.76.8A.0.28.B8.A3.0.CA.B6.70.1.64.E1.35.0.47.8A.1F.0.2.88.31.
    >

    0.2.11.25.0.2.67.7.0.0.B6.47.0.0.3B.A3.0.2.16.6D.0.4.F8.B1.0.B.65.9F.0.15.91
    >

    ..94.0.65.87.C1.0.B0.DD.D2.0.23.42.E7.0.0.FF.E9.0.0.BC.CA.0.0.D6.1B.0.0.2.55.
    >

    0.0.0.AC.0.0.5.D0.0.0.C.98.0.0.1A.BB.0.0.37.6F.0.1.26.AE.0.1.F7.ED.0.0.69.FA
    >

    ..0.0.8.1E.0.0.8.92.0.0.A.4F.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.
    >

    0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.
    >

    0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.
    >

    0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.
    >

    0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.
    >

    0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.
    >

    0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.
    > 0.0.0.0
    > CustomFunctions :
    > Fn1.NoiseReduction : Off
    > Fn2.Shutter/AE-lock buttons : AF/AE lock
    > Fn3.Mirror lookup : Disable
    > Fn4.Tv/Av and exposure level : 1/2EV
    > Fn5.AF-assist light : On(Auto)
    > Fn6.Shutter speed in Av mode : Auto
    > Fn7.AEB sequence/auto cancellation : 0,-,+/Enabled
    > Fn8.Shutter curtain sync : 1st-curtain sync
    > Fn9.Lens AF stop button Fn. Switch : AF stop
    > Fn10.Auto reduction of fill flash : On
    > Fn11.Menu button return position : Top
    > Fn12.SET button func. when shooting : Not assigned
    > Fn13.Sensor cleaning : Off
    > Fn14.Superimposed display : On
    > Fn15.Shutter release w/o CF card : Possible w/out CF card
    > Unknown (000F)3,18 : 0024 0100 0200 0300 0400 0500 0600 0700 0800 0900

    0A00
    > 0B00 0C00 0D00 0E00 0F00 1000 1100
    > Unknown (00C0)3,13 : 001A 0136 0170 0175 00A6 00F6 01C9 01CF 0116 00B4

    01FF
    > 0205 01A3
    > Unknown (00C1)3,13 : 001A 0144 016C 016D 00A0 00F1 01AC 01AE 00FD 00B3

    01E4
    > 01E7 018F
    > Unknown (00AA)3,5 : 10,968,1021,1027,918
    > Unknown (00A8)3,10 : 20,4739,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    > Unknown (00A9)3,41 :
    >

    82,1692,837,826,1057,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    > ,0,0,0,0,128,127,128,127
    > Unknown (00AE)3,1 : 5200
    > Unknown (00B4)3,1 : 2
    > Unknown (0012)3,24 :
    >

    7,7,3072,2048,3072,2048,151,151,1014,608,0,0,0,64928,64522,0,0,65030,0,506,0
    > ,0,16,65535
    > Unknown (0013)3,4 : 0,159,7,112
    > Unknown (0000)3,5 : 0,0,0,0,0
    > Thumbnail Information
    > Compression : OLDJPEG
    > XResolution : 180/1
    > YResolution : 180/1
    > ResolutionUnit : Inch
    > JPEGInterchangeFormat : 2548
    > JPEGInterchangeFormatLength : 6656
    >
    >
     
    Stuart, Sep 1, 2003
    #18
  19. Ted Rogers

    dslr Guest

    Ted Rogers wrote:
    >
    > "Stuart" <> wrote in message
    > news:bivmbt$rc7$...
    > > I too have a 10D. I have never used any of the point-and-shoot settings -
    > > didnt buy it for that type of facility. But for me AWB usually works OK -
    > > and P mode is good for getting the initial EV values sensed.
    > > There are some excellent points made in this thread so far. The camera
    > > histogram will tell you a lot.
    > >
    > > Just a little tip: use the RAW plugin on Photoshop - you can immediately
    > > correct for Colour temperature and exposure very quickly before getting

    > into
    > > any other processing. Also - use Levels and then possibly Curves for any
    > > subsequent corrections. If needed finish with Unsharp mask. You should be
    > > able to process a single photo in a matter just 1 or 2 minutes when you

    > get
    > > used to this workflow.


    > >

    > Cheers Stuart - thats good advice. I invested in the RAW plugin - made the
    > necessary hex edits and it works beautifully. Its a bit laborious though if,
    > say, you go out for a days shoot where I tend to come back with a couple of
    > hundred shots. Can you set up an action to apply RAW conversion settings or
    > do you manipulate each individual image? Now that I've got this workflow
    > into my head things are much clearer - thanks!


    In the RAW plugin there is a tickbox in the bottom LH corner - "Only
    display this dialog if alt key is down"
    If you tick that, the settings dialog won't open unless you have the Alt
    key pressed. This means that RAW files are opened automatically.
    Now, in Elements or PS, you can use File-Batch processing, supply a
    folder of RAW files, specify output format and destination and Robert is
    yer father's brother.

    Do bear in mind that this will only use default settings, which may or
    may not be ideal for your images.

    --
    regards,
    dslr
     
    dslr, Sep 1, 2003
    #19
  20. Ted Rogers

    Stuart Guest

    Ted - I dont see why you cant set up an action for it but is it worth the
    effort - you will no doubt quickly rejust a fair number of shots anyway
    before going on to those that are worth PS processing - or are all your pics
    that good !!

    "Ted Rogers" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Stuart" <> wrote in message
    > news:bivmbt$rc7$...
    > > I too have a 10D. I have never used any of the point-and-shoot

    settings -
    > > didnt buy it for that type of facility. But for me AWB usually works

    OK -
    > > and P mode is good for getting the initial EV values sensed.
    > > There are some excellent points made in this thread so far. The camera
    > > histogram will tell you a lot.
    > >
    > > Just a little tip: use the RAW plugin on Photoshop - you can immediately
    > > correct for Colour temperature and exposure very quickly before getting

    > into
    > > any other processing. Also - use Levels and then possibly Curves for any
    > > subsequent corrections. If needed finish with Unsharp mask. You should

    be
    > > able to process a single photo in a matter just 1 or 2 minutes when you

    > get
    > > used to this workflow.
    > >
    > > Stuart
    > >

    > Cheers Stuart - thats good advice. I invested in the RAW plugin - made the
    > necessary hex edits and it works beautifully. Its a bit laborious though

    if,
    > say, you go out for a days shoot where I tend to come back with a couple

    of
    > hundred shots. Can you set up an action to apply RAW conversion settings

    or
    > do you manipulate each individual image? Now that I've got this workflow
    > into my head things are much clearer - thanks!
    >
    > Ted
    >
    >
     
    Stuart, Sep 1, 2003
    #20
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    Mr. Mike, Oct 9, 2003, in forum: DVD Video
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    Joseph O'Brien, May 9, 2005, in forum: Digital Photography
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  5. Bill Hilton

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