Disappointed by Digital Rebel (Canon EOS-300D)

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Open Wound, Mar 7, 2004.

  1. Open Wound

    Open Wound Guest

    I was attracted to the Digital Rebel primarily because of its
    high-sensitivity sensor. I had read many reviews which all praised
    the Rebel's ability to take virtually nose free images at ISO 400.
    I thought the Rebel would be a good choice for me because higher
    ISO will let me increase the shutter speed, which will let me take
    less blurry pictures of my 1-year-old who won't stand still.

    I was disappointed by the pictures, however. The problem was very
    poor dynamic range. If the light on the subject's face is even a
    little bit uneven (indoor lighting) then you get washout. I didn't
    understand this at all, because even my older Pro90 took better
    pictures.

    So I did some research. Turns out, the dynamic range falls sharply
    as you increase the ISO. See the charts at:
    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0011/00111608dynamicrange.asp
    What this means is that permanently setting the ISO to 400 as I
    had previously planned to do is not an option at all. Even increasing
    the ISO from 100 to 200 causes a significant decline in dynamic range.
    So it looks like I will have to set the ISO to 100 most of the time.
    Which cancels out the reason I bought this camera.

    Had I known, I would probably have purchased the FujiFilm FinePix F700
    instead. You can get this camera for around $270. It has lower
    resolution than the Digital Rebel (3.1 Megapixels), and of course it
    is not an SLR, so you can't change the lens. But it has one of the
    best dynamic ranges, and the lowest manual ISO setting on this camera
    is ISO 200. This camera would probably take better pictures than the
    Digital Rebel, with better dynamic range, and less blurry because of
    the higher ISO. (ISO 200 is sufficient for best quality, whereas the
    Canon requires ISO 100.)

    Still, the Digital Rebel has the advantages of an SLR: I am going to
    get an F1.8 50mm lens for around $70. This will let me increase the
    shutterspeed a little bit. But it is unclear whether this will bring
    the picture quality closer to the $270 FinePix F700.
     
    Open Wound, Mar 7, 2004
    #1
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  2. Open Wound

    Canongirly Guest

    You'll enjoy the Finepix f700 shutter lag.
    A 50mm lens on a 300d will in effect be an 80mm

    "Open Wound" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I was attracted to the Digital Rebel primarily because of its
    > high-sensitivity sensor. I had read many reviews which all praised
    > the Rebel's ability to take virtually nose free images at ISO 400.
    > I thought the Rebel would be a good choice for me because higher
    > ISO will let me increase the shutter speed, which will let me take
    > less blurry pictures of my 1-year-old who won't stand still.
    >
    > I was disappointed by the pictures, however. The problem was very
    > poor dynamic range. If the light on the subject's face is even a
    > little bit uneven (indoor lighting) then you get washout. I didn't
    > understand this at all, because even my older Pro90 took better
    > pictures.
    >
    > So I did some research. Turns out, the dynamic range falls sharply
    > as you increase the ISO. See the charts at:
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0011/00111608dynamicrange.asp
    > What this means is that permanently setting the ISO to 400 as I
    > had previously planned to do is not an option at all. Even increasing
    > the ISO from 100 to 200 causes a significant decline in dynamic range.
    > So it looks like I will have to set the ISO to 100 most of the time.
    > Which cancels out the reason I bought this camera.
    >
    > Had I known, I would probably have purchased the FujiFilm FinePix F700
    > instead. You can get this camera for around $270. It has lower
    > resolution than the Digital Rebel (3.1 Megapixels), and of course it
    > is not an SLR, so you can't change the lens. But it has one of the
    > best dynamic ranges, and the lowest manual ISO setting on this camera
    > is ISO 200. This camera would probably take better pictures than the
    > Digital Rebel, with better dynamic range, and less blurry because of
    > the higher ISO. (ISO 200 is sufficient for best quality, whereas the
    > Canon requires ISO 100.)
    >
    > Still, the Digital Rebel has the advantages of an SLR: I am going to
    > get an F1.8 50mm lens for around $70. This will let me increase the
    > shutterspeed a little bit. But it is unclear whether this will bring
    > the picture quality closer to the $270 FinePix F700.
     
    Canongirly, Mar 7, 2004
    #2
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  3. Open Wound

    Tony Spadaro Guest

    Probably operator error - the Rebel can be set to do your exposure for you
    too. Just put it in one of the picture modes and you'll be happy.

    --
    http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
    home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
    The Improved Links Pages are at
    http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
    A sample chapter from my novel "Haight-Ashbury" is at
    http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
    "Open Wound" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I was attracted to the Digital Rebel primarily because of its
    > high-sensitivity sensor. I had read many reviews which all praised
    > the Rebel's ability to take virtually nose free images at ISO 400.
    > I thought the Rebel would be a good choice for me because higher
    > ISO will let me increase the shutter speed, which will let me take
    > less blurry pictures of my 1-year-old who won't stand still.
    >
    > I was disappointed by the pictures, however. The problem was very
    > poor dynamic range. If the light on the subject's face is even a
    > little bit uneven (indoor lighting) then you get washout. I didn't
    > understand this at all, because even my older Pro90 took better
    > pictures.
    >
    > So I did some research. Turns out, the dynamic range falls sharply
    > as you increase the ISO. See the charts at:
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0011/00111608dynamicrange.asp
    > What this means is that permanently setting the ISO to 400 as I
    > had previously planned to do is not an option at all. Even increasing
    > the ISO from 100 to 200 causes a significant decline in dynamic range.
    > So it looks like I will have to set the ISO to 100 most of the time.
    > Which cancels out the reason I bought this camera.
    >
    > Had I known, I would probably have purchased the FujiFilm FinePix F700
    > instead. You can get this camera for around $270. It has lower
    > resolution than the Digital Rebel (3.1 Megapixels), and of course it
    > is not an SLR, so you can't change the lens. But it has one of the
    > best dynamic ranges, and the lowest manual ISO setting on this camera
    > is ISO 200. This camera would probably take better pictures than the
    > Digital Rebel, with better dynamic range, and less blurry because of
    > the higher ISO. (ISO 200 is sufficient for best quality, whereas the
    > Canon requires ISO 100.)
    >
    > Still, the Digital Rebel has the advantages of an SLR: I am going to
    > get an F1.8 50mm lens for around $70. This will let me increase the
    > shutterspeed a little bit. But it is unclear whether this will bring
    > the picture quality closer to the $270 FinePix F700.
     
    Tony Spadaro, Mar 7, 2004
    #3
  4. Open Wound

    John Navas Guest

    [POSTED TO rec.photo.digital - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

    In <> on 6 Mar 2004 16:21:31
    -0800, (Open Wound) wrote:

    >I was attracted to the Digital Rebel primarily because of its
    >high-sensitivity sensor. I had read many reviews which all praised
    >the Rebel's ability to take virtually nose free images at ISO 400.
    >I thought the Rebel would be a good choice for me because higher
    >ISO will let me increase the shutter speed, which will let me take
    >less blurry pictures of my 1-year-old who won't stand still.
    >
    >I was disappointed by the pictures, however. The problem was very
    >poor dynamic range. If the light on the subject's face is even a
    >little bit uneven (indoor lighting) then you get washout. I didn't
    >understand this at all, because even my older Pro90 took better
    >pictures.
    >
    >So I did some research. Turns out, the dynamic range falls sharply
    >as you increase the ISO. See the charts at:
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0011/00111608dynamicrange.asp


    There is no Free Lunch.

    >What this means is that permanently setting the ISO to 400 as I
    >had previously planned to do is not an option at all. Even increasing
    >the ISO from 100 to 200 causes a significant decline in dynamic range.
    >So it looks like I will have to set the ISO to 100 most of the time.
    >Which cancels out the reason I bought this camera.


    Why not use Auto ISO, and shoot in Shutter Priority AE (or Sports) mode?

    >Had I known, I would probably have purchased the FujiFilm FinePix F700
    >instead. You can get this camera for around $270. It has lower
    >resolution than the Digital Rebel (3.1 Megapixels), and of course it
    >is not an SLR, so you can't change the lens. But it has one of the
    >best dynamic ranges, and the lowest manual ISO setting on this camera
    >is ISO 200. This camera would probably take better pictures than the
    >Digital Rebel, with better dynamic range, and less blurry because of
    >the higher ISO. ...


    I seriously doubt that.

    --
    Best regards,
    John Navas
    [PLEASE NOTE: Ads belong *only* in rec.photo.marketplace.digital, as per
    <http://bobatkins.photo.net/info/charter.htm> <http://rpdfaq.50megs.com/>]
     
    John Navas, Mar 7, 2004
    #4
  5. Open Wound

    John Navas Guest

    [POSTED TO rec.photo.digital - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

    Perhaps that will make him happy, but maybe not -- all the talk about money
    suggests a serious case of DSLR Buyer's Remorse. ;-)

    In <q0u2c.71827$> on Sun, 07 Mar 2004
    00:28:06 GMT, "Tony Spadaro" <> wrote:

    >Probably operator error - the Rebel can be set to do your exposure for you
    >too. Just put it in one of the picture modes and you'll be happy.


    >"Open Wound" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> I was attracted to the Digital Rebel primarily because of its
    >> high-sensitivity sensor. I had read many reviews which all praised
    >> the Rebel's ability to take virtually nose free images at ISO 400.
    >> I thought the Rebel would be a good choice for me because higher
    >> ISO will let me increase the shutter speed, which will let me take
    >> less blurry pictures of my 1-year-old who won't stand still.
    >>
    >> I was disappointed by the pictures, however. The problem was very
    >> poor dynamic range. If the light on the subject's face is even a
    >> little bit uneven (indoor lighting) then you get washout. I didn't
    >> understand this at all, because even my older Pro90 took better
    >> pictures.
    >>
    >> So I did some research. Turns out, the dynamic range falls sharply
    >> as you increase the ISO. See the charts at:
    >> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0011/00111608dynamicrange.asp
    >> What this means is that permanently setting the ISO to 400 as I
    >> had previously planned to do is not an option at all. Even increasing
    >> the ISO from 100 to 200 causes a significant decline in dynamic range.
    >> So it looks like I will have to set the ISO to 100 most of the time.
    >> Which cancels out the reason I bought this camera.
    >>
    >> Had I known, I would probably have purchased the FujiFilm FinePix F700
    >> instead. You can get this camera for around $270. It has lower
    >> resolution than the Digital Rebel (3.1 Megapixels), and of course it
    >> is not an SLR, so you can't change the lens. But it has one of the
    >> best dynamic ranges, and the lowest manual ISO setting on this camera
    >> is ISO 200. This camera would probably take better pictures than the
    >> Digital Rebel, with better dynamic range, and less blurry because of
    >> the higher ISO. (ISO 200 is sufficient for best quality, whereas the
    >> Canon requires ISO 100.)
    >>
    >> Still, the Digital Rebel has the advantages of an SLR: I am going to
    >> get an F1.8 50mm lens for around $70. This will let me increase the
    >> shutterspeed a little bit. But it is unclear whether this will bring
    >> the picture quality closer to the $270 FinePix F700.

    >


    --
    Best regards,
    John Navas
    [PLEASE NOTE: Ads belong *only* in rec.photo.marketplace.digital, as per
    <http://bobatkins.photo.net/info/charter.htm> <http://rpdfaq.50megs.com/>]
     
    John Navas, Mar 7, 2004
    #5
  6. John Navas wrote:

    > [POSTED TO rec.photo.digital - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
    >
    > Perhaps that will make him happy, but maybe not -- all the talk about money
    > suggests a serious case of DSLR Buyer's Remorse. ;-)


    [snip]

    And, I haven't had any of his problems.

    Fred

    --
    "...Linux, MS-DOS, and Windows XP (also known as the Good, the Bad, and
    the Ugly)."
     
    Fred A. Miller, Mar 7, 2004
    #6
  7. Open Wound wrote:

    > So I did some research. Turns out, the dynamic range falls sharply
    > as you increase the ISO. See the charts at:
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0011/00111608dynamicrange.asp


    Open,

    The solution for you is to leave the camera at a lower ISO and use
    electronic flash to stop the action. If there is plenty of light, then
    you can do a lower ISO without worrying about shutter speed.

    Gary Eickmeier
     
    Gary Eickmeier, Mar 7, 2004
    #7
  8. Open Wound

    jriegle Guest

    Welcome to digital. It in many ways is like slide film. You have limited
    latitude to work with.

    Underexposing a bit will retain highlights that tend to blow out. Correct
    later in a photo editor. Using the raw mode will also help retain some
    working latitude.

    The Rebel has image parameters that you can set. You can use one of the
    available three and set one for lower contrast.
    John

    "Open Wound" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I was attracted to the Digital Rebel primarily because of its
    > high-sensitivity sensor. I had read many reviews which all praised
    > the Rebel's ability to take virtually nose free images at ISO 400.
    > I thought the Rebel would be a good choice for me because higher
    > ISO will let me increase the shutter speed, which will let me take
    > less blurry pictures of my 1-year-old who won't stand still.
    >
    > I was disappointed by the pictures, however. The problem was very
    > poor dynamic range. If the light on the subject's face is even a
    > little bit uneven (indoor lighting) then you get washout. I didn't
    > understand this at all, because even my older Pro90 took better
    > pictures.
    >
    > So I did some research. Turns out, the dynamic range falls sharply
    > as you increase the ISO. See the charts at:
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0011/00111608dynamicrange.asp
    > What this means is that permanently setting the ISO to 400 as I
    > had previously planned to do is not an option at all. Even increasing
    > the ISO from 100 to 200 causes a significant decline in dynamic range.
    > So it looks like I will have to set the ISO to 100 most of the time.
    > Which cancels out the reason I bought this camera.
    >
    > Had I known, I would probably have purchased the FujiFilm FinePix F700
    > instead. You can get this camera for around $270. It has lower
    > resolution than the Digital Rebel (3.1 Megapixels), and of course it
    > is not an SLR, so you can't change the lens. But it has one of the
    > best dynamic ranges, and the lowest manual ISO setting on this camera
    > is ISO 200. This camera would probably take better pictures than the
    > Digital Rebel, with better dynamic range, and less blurry because of
    > the higher ISO. (ISO 200 is sufficient for best quality, whereas the
    > Canon requires ISO 100.)
    >
    > Still, the Digital Rebel has the advantages of an SLR: I am going to
    > get an F1.8 50mm lens for around $70. This will let me increase the
    > shutterspeed a little bit. But it is unclear whether this will bring
    > the picture quality closer to the $270 FinePix F700.
     
    jriegle, Mar 7, 2004
    #8
  9. Open Wound

    Boris Harss Guest

    Hi!

    > I was attracted to the Digital Rebel primarily because of its
    > high-sensitivity sensor. I had read many reviews which all praised
    > the Rebel's ability to take virtually nose free images at ISO 400.
    > I thought the Rebel would be a good choice for me because higher
    > ISO will let me increase the shutter speed, which will let me take
    > less blurry pictures of my 1-year-old who won't stand still.


    Hmm.. How about a fast AF for this job, I'd see the limitations more
    there than anywhere else....

    > I was disappointed by the pictures, however. The problem was very
    > poor dynamic range. If the light on the subject's face is even a
    > little bit uneven (indoor lighting) then you get washout. I didn't
    > understand this at all, because even my older Pro90 took better
    > pictures.


    Nor do I. Look at this, posted here not too long ago by JPS:
    http://www.pbase.com/image/26476905


    > So I did some research. Turns out, the dynamic range falls sharply
    > as you increase the ISO. See the charts at:
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0011/00111608dynamicrange.asp


    This is the D30, not the same chip. Plus: Yes, digital cameras behave
    more like slide film. A Simple question here: Did you use the RAW mode?
    If not, you have only 8 bits per channel dynamic range in the file, thus
    no change of correcting later on in Photoshop or alike.

    > Still, the Digital Rebel has the advantages of an SLR: I am going to
    > get an F1.8 50mm lens for around $70. This will let me increase the
    > shutterspeed a little bit.


    A littel bit??? ;-)))

    > But it is unclear whether this will bring the picture quality closer to the $270 FinePix F700.


    Sorry, but you are doing something wrong here. My guess is the file
    format JPG plus harsh lighting. If you have constant propblems with the
    highlights, I recommend to slightly underexpose.

    Cheers,
    B.
     
    Boris Harss, Mar 7, 2004
    #9
  10. Open Wound

    bmoag Guest

    Digital sensors currently resemble slide film: they do not tolerate
    over-exposure, losing all detail in the hightlights. The only workaround is
    to understand this and realize that using the oncamera flash for non-static
    candids is a crap shoot.
     
    bmoag, Mar 7, 2004
    #10
  11. > Digital sensors currently resemble slide film: they do not tolerate
    > over-exposure, losing all detail in the hightlights. The only workaround is
    > to understand this and realize that using the oncamera flash for non-static
    > candids is a crap shoot.


    On camera flash always sucks whether if's film or digital.
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Mar 7, 2004
    #11
  12. Open Wound

    John Navas Guest

    [POSTED TO rec.photo.digital - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

    In <070320041347061616%> on Sun, 07 Mar 2004 13:47:06
    -0800, Randall Ainsworth <> wrote:

    >> Digital sensors currently resemble slide film: they do not tolerate
    >> over-exposure, losing all detail in the hightlights. The only workaround is
    >> to understand this and realize that using the oncamera flash for non-static
    >> candids is a crap shoot.

    >
    >On camera flash always sucks whether if's film or digital.


    It can indeed suck in some cases, but can be good in other cases -- it all
    depends on what you are doing and trying to accomplish. I have some very nice
    images taken with on-camera flash.

    --
    Best regards,
    John Navas
    [PLEASE NOTE: Ads belong *only* in rec.photo.marketplace.digital, as per
    <http://bobatkins.photo.net/info/charter.htm> <http://rpdfaq.50megs.com/>]
     
    John Navas, Mar 7, 2004
    #12
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