Digital Zoom question

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by ronnienospamholland@sbcglobal.net, Sep 12, 2007.

  1. Guest

    Hello all.
    I bought a Casio Exilim 8 meg camera with a 3x optical and a 4x
    digital zoom.
    Focus is perfect in the optical area, but when I go into the digital
    zoom area, the focus starts to slip at the lower end and is completely
    blurry at fully extended. Is that the norm for digital zooms in these
    tiny cameras?
    TIA,
    Ron
    , Sep 12, 2007
    #1
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  2. John Ortt Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello all.
    > I bought a Casio Exilim 8 meg camera with a 3x optical and a 4x
    > digital zoom.
    > Focus is perfect in the optical area, but when I go into the digital
    > zoom area, the focus starts to slip at the lower end and is completely
    > blurry at fully extended. Is that the norm for digital zooms in these
    > tiny cameras?
    > TIA,
    > Ron


    Are you sure the focus is going or could you be seeing a drop in quality
    simply due to the use of digital zoom?

    My advice would be to switch off digi-zoom if you can possibly do without
    it.

    You can get essentially the same result by cropping an image from your
    maximum optical zoom.
    John Ortt, Sep 12, 2007
    #2
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  3. Guest

    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:15:54 +0100, "John Ortt"
    <> wrote:

    >
    ><> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Hello all.
    >> I bought a Casio Exilim 8 meg camera with a 3x optical and a 4x
    >> digital zoom.
    >> Focus is perfect in the optical area, but when I go into the digital
    >> zoom area, the focus starts to slip at the lower end and is completely
    >> blurry at fully extended. Is that the norm for digital zooms in these
    >> tiny cameras?
    >> TIA,
    >> Ron

    >
    >Are you sure the focus is going or could you be seeing a drop in quality
    >simply due to the use of digital zoom?
    >
    >My advice would be to switch off digi-zoom if you can possibly do without
    >it.
    >
    >You can get essentially the same result by cropping an image from your
    >maximum optical zoom.
    >

    There is not a lot of grain in the photo, so I'm sure it is a focus
    issue. I agree with simply not using the digital zoom, but since the
    camera is under warranty I was wondering if the poor focus was
    inherent of any small digital camera.
    , Sep 12, 2007
    #3
  4. John Ortt Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:15:54 +0100, "John Ortt"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >><> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> Hello all.
    >>> I bought a Casio Exilim 8 meg camera with a 3x optical and a 4x
    >>> digital zoom.
    >>> Focus is perfect in the optical area, but when I go into the digital
    >>> zoom area, the focus starts to slip at the lower end and is completely
    >>> blurry at fully extended. Is that the norm for digital zooms in these
    >>> tiny cameras?
    >>> TIA,
    >>> Ron

    >>
    >>Are you sure the focus is going or could you be seeing a drop in quality
    >>simply due to the use of digital zoom?
    >>
    >>My advice would be to switch off digi-zoom if you can possibly do without
    >>it.
    >>
    >>You can get essentially the same result by cropping an image from your
    >>maximum optical zoom.
    >>

    > There is not a lot of grain in the photo, so I'm sure it is a focus
    > issue. I agree with simply not using the digital zoom, but since the
    > camera is under warranty I was wondering if the poor focus was
    > inherent of any small digital camera.


    Could you put an example on the web and give us a url to the image?
    John Ortt, Sep 12, 2007
    #4
  5. irwell Guest

    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:15:54 +0100, "John Ortt"
    <> wrote:

    >
    ><> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Hello all.
    >> I bought a Casio Exilim 8 meg camera with a 3x optical and a 4x
    >> digital zoom.
    >> Focus is perfect in the optical area, but when I go into the digital
    >> zoom area, the focus starts to slip at the lower end and is completely
    >> blurry at fully extended. Is that the norm for digital zooms in these
    >> tiny cameras?
    >> TIA,
    >> Ron

    >
    >Are you sure the focus is going or could you be seeing a drop in quality
    >simply due to the use of digital zoom?
    >
    >My advice would be to switch off digi-zoom if you can possibly do without
    >it.
    >
    >You can get essentially the same result by cropping an image from your
    >maximum optical zoom.
    >

    Is this right?
    Many people opine that 'smart' digital zoom is better than
    cropping.
    irwell, Sep 12, 2007
    #5
  6. ray Guest

    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:48:43 +0000, ronnienospamholland wrote:

    > Hello all.
    > I bought a Casio Exilim 8 meg camera with a 3x optical and a 4x
    > digital zoom.
    > Focus is perfect in the optical area, but when I go into the digital
    > zoom area, the focus starts to slip at the lower end and is completely
    > blurry at fully extended. Is that the norm for digital zooms in these
    > tiny cameras?
    > TIA,
    > Ron


    I don't know for certain: but I would expect the actual focus should not
    change for digital zoom. Basically, digital zoom == crop. The digital zoom
    throws away pixels, so picture quality will decrease. IMHO you're better
    off not using digital zoom. If you want the effect of more zoom, crop in
    you farourite photo editing software - same difference.
    ray, Sep 12, 2007
    #6
  7. Matt Ion Guest

    wrote:
    > On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:15:54 +0100, "John Ortt"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Hello all.
    >>> I bought a Casio Exilim 8 meg camera with a 3x optical and a 4x
    >>> digital zoom.
    >>> Focus is perfect in the optical area, but when I go into the digital
    >>> zoom area, the focus starts to slip at the lower end and is completely
    >>> blurry at fully extended. Is that the norm for digital zooms in these
    >>> tiny cameras?
    >>> TIA,
    >>> Ron

    >> Are you sure the focus is going or could you be seeing a drop in quality
    >> simply due to the use of digital zoom?
    >>
    >> My advice would be to switch off digi-zoom if you can possibly do without
    >> it.
    >>
    >> You can get essentially the same result by cropping an image from your
    >> maximum optical zoom.
    >>

    > There is not a lot of grain in the photo, so I'm sure it is a focus
    > issue. I agree with simply not using the digital zoom, but since the
    > camera is under warranty I was wondering if the poor focus was
    > inherent of any small digital camera.


    It's easy enough to test: shoot with no digital zoom, then zoom or crop
    in software and see if it's still blurry in the same area.
    Matt Ion, Sep 12, 2007
    #7
  8. On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:35:40 -0700, irwell wrote:

    >>You can get essentially the same result by cropping an image from your
    >>maximum optical zoom.
    >>

    > Is this right?
    > Many people opine that 'smart' digital zoom is better than
    > cropping.


    Then opinions are not always right.

    --
    Neil
    Carl Neil Ellwood, Sep 12, 2007
    #8
  9. Tech Man Guest

    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:38:07 -0500, Carl Neil Ellwood <>
    wrote:

    >On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:35:40 -0700, irwell wrote:
    >
    >>>You can get essentially the same result by cropping an image from your
    >>>maximum optical zoom.
    >>>

    >> Is this right?
    >> Many people opine that 'smart' digital zoom is better than
    >> cropping.

    >
    >Then opinions are not always right.


    Until you know exactly how a camera is implementing any form of digital zoom,
    and it is very different from maker to maker and even model to model, you
    cannot, with any certainty, ever claim that digital-zoom is either useless or
    beneficial.

    It all depends on how it is implemented. In some cameras you actually can get
    more resolution from its digital zoom. In many others you won't loose detail but
    you wont' get anything better than what you can do in post processing.

    If your camera has RAW file capability then you won't be able to get any more
    detail out of any of the cameras' digital zoom modes than what you can do on
    your own by using the RAW data. IF, however, your camera only saves in JPG then
    there's a very good possibility that the digital zoom is being applied to the
    RAW data before JPG conversion. In that case you MIGHT be able to get more
    detail out of the camera's various digital zoom methods. It varies, as I said,
    from model to model. You will have to test this to see if your camera is one of
    them where digital zoom is beneficial. One of my cameras (jpg files only) shows
    a marked increase in detail by using the digital zoom compared to any method I
    have found to upsample the non-digital-zoom data to the same resolution. Another
    camera I have does not show any detail increase with digital zoom in its jpg
    files. But it does have RAW capability so I am able to accomplish the same
    detail recovery and upsampling in post processing to get the same benefit.

    If you think you can make a blanket claim about all digital zoom being useless
    it only shows everyone that you are a blind following idiot that only knows how
    to parrot the urban legends started long ago by that huge squad we
    affectionately call the Self-Appointed Professional Idiots. SAPI for short.
    Tech Man, Sep 12, 2007
    #9
  10. Ron Hunter Guest

    irwell wrote:
    > On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:15:54 +0100, "John Ortt"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Hello all.
    >>> I bought a Casio Exilim 8 meg camera with a 3x optical and a 4x
    >>> digital zoom.
    >>> Focus is perfect in the optical area, but when I go into the digital
    >>> zoom area, the focus starts to slip at the lower end and is completely
    >>> blurry at fully extended. Is that the norm for digital zooms in these
    >>> tiny cameras?
    >>> TIA,
    >>> Ron

    >> Are you sure the focus is going or could you be seeing a drop in quality
    >> simply due to the use of digital zoom?
    >>
    >> My advice would be to switch off digi-zoom if you can possibly do without
    >> it.
    >>
    >> You can get essentially the same result by cropping an image from your
    >> maximum optical zoom.
    >>

    > Is this right?
    > Many people opine that 'smart' digital zoom is better than
    > cropping.


    Smart digital zoom is better than digital zoom without the
    'enhancement', usually. However, you can achieve better effects, with
    more control with a good image editor, and some patience.
    Ron Hunter, Sep 13, 2007
    #10
  11. Ron Recer Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello all.
    > I bought a Casio Exilim 8 meg camera with a 3x optical and a 4x
    > digital zoom.
    > Focus is perfect in the optical area, but when I go into the digital
    > zoom area, the focus starts to slip at the lower end and is completely
    > blurry at fully extended. Is that the norm for digital zooms in these
    > tiny cameras?
    > TIA,
    > Ron


    Digital zoom is nothing but marketing hype. Anything that digital zoom can
    do you can do better in post processing with decent software. Turn off the
    digital zoom.

    Ron
    Ron Recer, Sep 13, 2007
    #11
  12. ASAAR Guest

    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:23:14 GMT, Biddy's buddy Tech Man wrote:

    > it only shows everyone that you are a blind following idiot that
    > only knows how to parrot the urban legends started long ago by
    > that huge squad we affectionately call the Self-Appointed
    > Professional Idiots. SAPI for short.


    Hmm, I'd think that you'd be a SAPIens member, since you're also a
    member of SCISP, short for Self-Created Idiot Sock Puppets.
    ASAAR, Sep 13, 2007
    #12
  13. Tech Man Guest

    On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:55:27 -0500, "Ron Recer" <> wrote:

    >
    ><> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Hello all.
    >> I bought a Casio Exilim 8 meg camera with a 3x optical and a 4x
    >> digital zoom.
    >> Focus is perfect in the optical area, but when I go into the digital
    >> zoom area, the focus starts to slip at the lower end and is completely
    >> blurry at fully extended. Is that the norm for digital zooms in these
    >> tiny cameras?
    >> TIA,
    >> Ron

    >
    >Digital zoom is nothing but marketing hype. Anything that digital zoom can
    >do you can do better in post processing with decent software. Turn off the
    >digital zoom.
    >
    >Ron
    >


    " If you think you can make a blanket claim about all digital zoom being useless
    it only shows everyone that you are a blind following idiot that only knows how
    to parrot the urban legends started long ago by that huge squad we
    affectionately call the Self-Appointed Professional Idiots. SAPI for short. "

    Please read the below, again, and with comprehension this time. Unless you are
    devoid of that capability, then just know that you are 100% wrong. That too will
    suffice. Or continue to announce to the world that you are a complete idiot.


    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:23:14 GMT, Tech Man <> wrote:

    >
    >Until you know exactly how a camera is implementing any form of digital zoom,
    >and it is very different from maker to maker and even model to model, you
    >cannot, with any certainty, ever claim that digital-zoom is either useless or
    >beneficial.
    >
    >It all depends on how it is implemented. In some cameras you actually can get
    >more resolution from its digital zoom. In many others you won't loose detail but
    >you wont' get anything better than what you can do in post processing.
    >
    >If your camera has RAW file capability then you won't be able to get any more
    >detail out of any of the cameras' digital zoom modes than what you can do on
    >your own by using the RAW data. IF, however, your camera only saves in JPG then
    >there's a very good possibility that the digital zoom is being applied to the
    >RAW data before JPG conversion. In that case you MIGHT be able to get more
    >detail out of the camera's various digital zoom methods. It varies, as I said,
    >from model to model. You will have to test this to see if your camera is one of
    >them where digital zoom is beneficial. One of my cameras (jpg files only) shows
    >a marked increase in detail by using the digital zoom compared to any method I
    >have found to upsample the non-digital-zoom data to the same resolution. Another
    >camera I have does not show any detail increase with digital zoom in its jpg
    >files. But it does have RAW capability so I am able to accomplish the same
    >detail recovery and upsampling in post processing to get the same benefit.
    >
    >If you think you can make a blanket claim about all digital zoom being useless
    >it only shows everyone that you are a blind following idiot that only knows how
    >to parrot the urban legends started long ago by that huge squad we
    >affectionately call the Self-Appointed Professional Idiots. SAPI for short.
    Tech Man, Sep 13, 2007
    #13
  14. Somebody Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello all.
    > I bought a Casio Exilim 8 meg camera with a 3x optical and a 4x
    > digital zoom.
    > Focus is perfect in the optical area, but when I go into the digital
    > zoom area, the focus starts to slip at the lower end and is completely
    > blurry at fully extended. Is that the norm for digital zooms in these
    > tiny cameras?
    > TIA,
    > Ron



    Digital Zoom is shit. If you want to know what digital zoom is going to your
    image. Load an optical zoom image in to Photoshop. Crop about 4/5ths of it
    and then use the image resize option to enlarge what's left back up to an
    8MP image. Only use the optical zoom. If you need more zoom than 3X and who
    doesn't then you bought the wrong camera.

    Somebody!
    Somebody, Sep 13, 2007
    #14
  15. Ron Hunter Guest

    Ron Recer wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Hello all.
    >> I bought a Casio Exilim 8 meg camera with a 3x optical and a 4x
    >> digital zoom.
    >> Focus is perfect in the optical area, but when I go into the digital
    >> zoom area, the focus starts to slip at the lower end and is completely
    >> blurry at fully extended. Is that the norm for digital zooms in these
    >> tiny cameras?
    >> TIA,
    >> Ron

    >
    > Digital zoom is nothing but marketing hype. Anything that digital zoom can
    > do you can do better in post processing with decent software. Turn off the
    > digital zoom.
    >
    > Ron
    >
    >

    HEY! I have used digital zoom as a sort of handy telescope. The human
    brain can often make out what a distant object is even with the loss of
    resolution imposed by digital zoom, but I don't actually take the
    picture as the quality is way below what I expect from my camera. At
    least I have found SOME use for the feature.
    Ron Hunter, Sep 14, 2007
    #15
  16. "Ron Hunter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > HEY! I have used digital zoom as a sort of handy telescope. The human
    > brain can often make out what a distant object is even with the loss of
    > resolution imposed by digital zoom, but I don't actually take the picture
    > as the quality is way below what I expect from my camera. At least I have
    > found SOME use for the feature.


    Agreed. Using DZ as a sort of spotting scope works fine. But as a spotting
    scope is used to point the main scope properly, DZ is best used only as a
    tool for prepairing to take the main image. Now this is JMHO and for those
    few who are of the opposite opinion, feel free to do so. My personal
    experience shows, that for me, DZ is useless for my image capturing uses.

    Personally I find that a crop/resize operation with a good editor in post
    production yields a better final image than that done with digital zoom in
    the camera. Look at it this way, the size and the complexity of the computer
    processor in the camera is much less than the one in my laptop. Also if my
    camera takes 30 sec or more to process each image I would be upset. But the
    same crop/resize operation done on the laptop can take a min or so without
    making me too upset. So the program and process used in the operation in the
    laptop can be many many times more complex (and with probably more
    acceptable results) than an in camera process of the same type.

    JMHO

    Randy

    ==========
    Randy Berbaum
    Champaign, IL
    Randy Berbaum, Sep 14, 2007
    #16
  17. On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 02:58:41 -0500, Ron Hunter <> wrote:

    >Ron Recer wrote:
    >> <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Hello all.
    >>> I bought a Casio Exilim 8 meg camera with a 3x optical and a 4x
    >>> digital zoom.
    >>> Focus is perfect in the optical area, but when I go into the digital
    >>> zoom area, the focus starts to slip at the lower end and is completely
    >>> blurry at fully extended. Is that the norm for digital zooms in these
    >>> tiny cameras?
    >>> TIA,
    >>> Ron

    >>
    >> Digital zoom is nothing but marketing hype. Anything that digital zoom can
    >> do you can do better in post processing with decent software. Turn off the
    >> digital zoom.
    >>
    >> Ron
    >>
    >>

    >HEY! I have used digital zoom as a sort of handy telescope. The human
    >brain can often make out what a distant object is even with the loss of
    >resolution imposed by digital zoom, but I don't actually take the
    >picture as the quality is way below what I expect from my camera. At
    >least I have found SOME use for the feature.


    How some you people ever managed to log onto the internet I'll never know. I bet
    you had some 5 year old to help you.

    You don't lose ANY resolution by using digital zoom. Most times you just don't
    gain any. It depends on the camera. Sometimes there is an increase in
    resolution. Though slight, it is measurable. It all depends on how digital zoom
    is being implemented in that particular camera model.
    Notes4theClueless, Sep 14, 2007
    #17
  18. Guest

    On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:17:15 GMT, Notes4theClueless
    <> wrote:

    >On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 02:58:41 -0500, Ron Hunter <> wrote:
    >
    >>Ron Recer wrote:
    >>> <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> Hello all.
    >>>> I bought a Casio Exilim 8 meg camera with a 3x optical and a 4x
    >>>> digital zoom.
    >>>> Focus is perfect in the optical area, but when I go into the digital
    >>>> zoom area, the focus starts to slip at the lower end and is completely
    >>>> blurry at fully extended. Is that the norm for digital zooms in these
    >>>> tiny cameras?
    >>>> TIA,
    >>>> Ron
    >>>

    <snip>
    >>HEY! I have used digital zoom as a sort of handy telescope. The human
    >>brain can often make out what a distant object is even with the loss of
    >>resolution imposed by digital zoom

    >
    >You don't lose ANY resolution by using digital zoom.


    Boy,,,,,,,, That pretty much cleared it all up. I DO have a focus
    problem ... cauze I can't use my digital zoom as a spotting scope. So
    blurry that you can't distinguish anything at fully extended.
    Thanks All.
    Ron
    , Sep 14, 2007
    #18
  19. Ron Hunter Guest

    Randy Berbaum wrote:
    > "Ron Hunter" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> HEY! I have used digital zoom as a sort of handy telescope. The human
    >> brain can often make out what a distant object is even with the loss of
    >> resolution imposed by digital zoom, but I don't actually take the picture
    >> as the quality is way below what I expect from my camera. At least I have
    >> found SOME use for the feature.

    >
    > Agreed. Using DZ as a sort of spotting scope works fine. But as a spotting
    > scope is used to point the main scope properly, DZ is best used only as a
    > tool for prepairing to take the main image. Now this is JMHO and for those
    > few who are of the opposite opinion, feel free to do so. My personal
    > experience shows, that for me, DZ is useless for my image capturing uses.
    >
    > Personally I find that a crop/resize operation with a good editor in post
    > production yields a better final image than that done with digital zoom in
    > the camera. Look at it this way, the size and the complexity of the computer
    > processor in the camera is much less than the one in my laptop. Also if my
    > camera takes 30 sec or more to process each image I would be upset. But the
    > same crop/resize operation done on the laptop can take a min or so without
    > making me too upset. So the program and process used in the operation in the
    > laptop can be many many times more complex (and with probably more
    > acceptable results) than an in camera process of the same type.
    >
    > JMHO
    >
    > Randy
    >
    > ==========
    > Randy Berbaum
    > Champaign, IL
    >
    >

    Agreed. For image capture, DZ is pretty much a marketing ploy.
    For others, who don't want to do post-processing, or don't know how, it
    might be a useful 'crutch'.
    Ron Hunter, Sep 15, 2007
    #19
  20. Ron Hunter Guest

    Notes4theClueless wrote:
    > On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 02:58:41 -0500, Ron Hunter <> wrote:
    >
    >> Ron Recer wrote:
    >>> <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> Hello all.
    >>>> I bought a Casio Exilim 8 meg camera with a 3x optical and a 4x
    >>>> digital zoom.
    >>>> Focus is perfect in the optical area, but when I go into the digital
    >>>> zoom area, the focus starts to slip at the lower end and is completely
    >>>> blurry at fully extended. Is that the norm for digital zooms in these
    >>>> tiny cameras?
    >>>> TIA,
    >>>> Ron
    >>> Digital zoom is nothing but marketing hype. Anything that digital zoom can
    >>> do you can do better in post processing with decent software. Turn off the
    >>> digital zoom.
    >>>
    >>> Ron
    >>>
    >>>

    >> HEY! I have used digital zoom as a sort of handy telescope. The human
    >> brain can often make out what a distant object is even with the loss of
    >> resolution imposed by digital zoom, but I don't actually take the
    >> picture as the quality is way below what I expect from my camera. At
    >> least I have found SOME use for the feature.

    >
    > How some you people ever managed to log onto the internet I'll never know. I bet
    > you had some 5 year old to help you.
    >
    > You don't lose ANY resolution by using digital zoom. Most times you just don't
    > gain any. It depends on the camera. Sometimes there is an increase in
    > resolution. Though slight, it is measurable. It all depends on how digital zoom
    > is being implemented in that particular camera model.
    >

    No. You NEVER gain resolution with digital zoom. I was a computer
    professional for 40 years, so I didn't need much help to get logged onto
    the internet, thanks. And I have been taking photographs for about 55
    years, and using digital cameras for about 6 years. If you think that
    digital zoom, even the 'enhanced' versions improve resolution, it is you
    who needs help.
    Ron Hunter, Sep 15, 2007
    #20
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