Digital Compact Enquiry

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Guest, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi, I travel abroad on mountaineering expeditions for long time periods and
    in addition to my DSLR Nikon require a small lightweight camera which takes
    the AA batteries because there is nowhere to recharge the L-ion type,
    without solar panel chargers etc which are usually too fragile and
    temperamental.

    I currently have a 5yr old Sony DSC P71 3.2mp camera which is now a bit
    tired and worn and can be erratic.

    Open to any recommends of make, compact size and lightweight but main
    priority is must have AA for power.

    Thanks in advance

    Regards

    Tony H.
    **************************************************

    Address spam-trapped, please remove shoes to reply
     
    Guest, Jul 28, 2006
    #1
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  2. Guest

    ASAAR Guest

    On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:18:45 +0100, <<<Tony H.>>> wrote:

    > Open to any recommends of make, compact size and lightweight but main
    > priority is must have AA for power.


    Canon's A520 and A530 are fairly small and get good life from 2 AA
    batteries. I think that the A610 and A620 are better cameras with
    quicker all around performance, get extremely long life from AA
    alkaline batteries, have versatile LCD displays that tilt and rotate
    and due to new models probably arriving soon, prices have dropped
    substantially. But they are slightly larger and use 4 AA batteries.

    Kodak (C3x0 series), Fuji (E900), Nikon and other manufacturers
    have good cameras that use 2 AAs, but I'm not familiar enough with
    them to do more than mention them. Sony had a couple of nice,
    small, rugged models in the W5 and W7 that also used 2 AAs, but I
    don't know if they're still current models. Most of the new Sonys
    that I've seen use Li-Ion batteries.
     
    ASAAR, Jul 28, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. ? "ASAAR" <> ?????? ??? ??????
    news:...
    > On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:18:45 +0100, <<<Tony H.>>> wrote:
    >
    > > Open to any recommends of make, compact size and lightweight but main
    > > priority is must have AA for power.

    >
    > Canon's A520 and A530 are fairly small and get good life from 2 AA
    > batteries. I think that the A610 and A620 are better cameras with
    > quicker all around performance, get extremely long life from AA
    > alkaline batteries, have versatile LCD displays that tilt and rotate
    > and due to new models probably arriving soon, prices have dropped
    > substantially. But they are slightly larger and use 4 AA batteries.
    >

    I would also strongly recommend to the original poster not to discard the
    alkaline batteries after the camera says they are empty, since most cameras
    don't drain them to oblivion but mostly down to 1.05 volts, so they could be
    of use to flashlights etc which you might use in mountaineering.


    3x0 series), Fuji (E900), Nikon and other manufacturers
    > have good cameras that use 2 AAs, but I'm not familiar enough with
    > them to do more than mention them. Sony had a couple of nice,
    > small, rugged models in the W5 and W7 that also used 2 AAs, but I
    > don't know if they're still current models. Most of the new Sonys
    > that I've seen use Li-Ion batteries.
    >



    --
    Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
    major in electrical engineering,freelance electrician
    542nd mechanized infantry batallion
    dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
     
    Tzortzakakis Dimitrios, Jul 28, 2006
    #3
  4. Guest

    SMS Guest

    <<<Tony H.>>> wrote:
    > Hi, I travel abroad on mountaineering expeditions for long time periods and
    > in addition to my DSLR Nikon require a small lightweight camera which takes
    > the AA batteries because there is nowhere to recharge the L-ion type,
    > without solar panel chargers etc which are usually too fragile and
    > temperamental.
    >
    > I currently have a 5yr old Sony DSC P71 3.2mp camera which is now a bit
    > tired and worn and can be erratic.
    >
    > Open to any recommends of make, compact size and lightweight but main
    > priority is must have AA for power.


    Canon A610 or A620 are about your only good choices. There is also the
    Panasonic Lumix DMC-LZ5, but this is not a good choice.

    Just curious, but are you saying that there are places to buy AA
    batteries, but no places to charge Li-Ion batteries? If I were going
    mountaineering for long periods of time without access to stores or
    power, I'd insist on Li-Ion batteries, as they are so much more dense in
    terms of power/weight and power/size.
     
    SMS, Jul 28, 2006
    #4
  5. Guest

    ASAAR Guest

    On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:31:52 +0300, Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:

    >> Canon's A520 and A530 are fairly small and get good life from 2 AA
    >> batteries. I think that the A610 and A620 are better cameras with
    >> quicker all around performance, get extremely long life from AA
    >> alkaline batteries, have versatile LCD displays that tilt and rotate
    >> and due to new models probably arriving soon, prices have dropped
    >> substantially. But they are slightly larger and use 4 AA batteries.

    >
    > I would also strongly recommend to the original poster not to discard the
    > alkaline batteries after the camera says they are empty, since most cameras
    > don't drain them to oblivion but mostly down to 1.05 volts, so they could be
    > of use to flashlights etc which you might use in mountaineering.


    Not if incandescent bulbs are used. That voltage should be well
    below the point at which the filaments would emit a feeble orange
    glow. But in LED flashlights/torches (whether they're voltage
    regulated or not) they should provide many hours of bright light.
    They'd also be useful in radios, although again those voltages would
    be too low for most digital radios to operate. Since size and
    weight were considerations, lithium AA batteries would be a good
    choice, since fewer batteries would be needed, and the number
    carried would probably weigh less than 1/3 the weight of an
    equivalent number of alkalines, since they weigh less than alkalines
    to begin with, and each set of lithiums would probably last more
    than twice as long each set of alkalines. Lithiums are also without
    peer in cold weather, performing well in temperatures that would
    keep the photographers indoors. :)
     
    ASAAR, Jul 28, 2006
    #5
  6. Guest

    ASAAR Guest

    On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:19:29 -0700, the SMS shill wrote:

    >> Open to any recommends of make, compact size and lightweight but main
    >> priority is must have AA for power.

    >
    > Canon A610 or A620 are about your only good choices. There is also the
    > Panasonic Lumix DMC-LZ5, but this is not a good choice.


    So why did you mention the LZ5 if it's not a good choice? Those
    two Canons are good cameras, but so are the smaller, lighter A520
    and A530 as well as the other cameras I mentioned earlier in this
    thread. Batteries in the A610 and A620 last twice as long as they
    would in the A520 and A530, but then the A6x0 cameras use twice as
    many AA batteries, so none of them have an advantage here. But the
    A5x0 series are, as the OP requested, more compact and lighter in
    weight. I know that there must be a reason why you so often make
    bizarre, illogical recommendations, but I suspect that the reason(s)
    will remain a mystery.


    > Just curious, but are you saying that there are places to buy AA
    > batteries, but no places to charge Li-Ion batteries? If I were going
    > mountaineering for long periods of time without access to stores or
    > power, I'd insist on Li-Ion batteries, as they are so much more dense in
    > terms of power/weight and power/size.


    And as usual, you recommend Li-Ion batteries without having enough
    information to justify them. Other people have described to *YOU*
    long expeditions in areas that wouldn't allow them to be able to
    recharge their camera's batteries, so it's not as if you were
    unaware of this possibility. If the mountaineering expedition will
    be so long that many sets of batteries would be needed, only the
    truly clueless would choose cameras that use Li-Ion batteries.

    Comparing the A610/A620 using lithium AA batteries with any
    non-DSLR (camera must be small and lightweight, right?) you pay $10
    or less for a set of 4 lithium AA batteries that should easily last
    for more than 2000 shots. If five sets of batteries would be
    needed, for up to 10,000 shots, they would cost $50 or less. With a
    small P&S that uses Li-Ion batteries, the battery life would range
    from 300 to 500 shots per charge. Choosing 400 as a reasonable
    mean, to take the same number of shots (without having access to a
    charger) would require 25 Li-Ion batteries. Nobody in their right
    mind would buy this number of the camera manufacturer's batteries,
    as the cost would probably be over $1000. At only about $20 for
    quality replacements such as the brands sold by Adorama, J&R, B&H,
    etc., the cost would be around $500. You could pay less for Li-Ion
    batteries by shopping around the internet or trying eBay, but then
    you'll risk getting poorer performing batteries that may die
    suddenly, and you've still paid close to $250, far more than the $50
    that the lithium AA's would have cost. Then after the
    mountaineering expedition has ended, you're stuck with 25 sets of
    batteries, and since they deteriorate whether they're used or not,
    would be good for only another 3 or 4 years. Since most people
    could easily get by with only 2 or 3 rechargeable batteries for that
    3 or 4 year period, this represents the wasting of 22 or 23 Li-Ion
    batteries. I suppose one could try to sell them, but whatever one
    gets for used Li-Ion batteries should result in a tremendous
    financial loss.

    You know this. You've been told it before. You don't even try to
    refute it. You're a very persistent shill that doesn't restrict
    Li-Ion battery recommendations to situations where they'd be a
    reasonable choice, but tout them whether they make sense or not.
     
    ASAAR, Jul 28, 2006
    #6
  7. Guest

    Guest

    How many photos are you going to take?

    The Fugifilm F30 gets over 500 photos on a single charge

    Also becuse it has mind blowing low light ability, it hardly uses the
    flash either..

    The F30 is THE compact of the moment, near SLR quality is what all the
    tests have discovered

    K202


    <<<Tony H.>>> wrote:
    > Hi, I travel abroad on mountaineering expeditions for long time periods and
    > in addition to my DSLR Nikon require a small lightweight camera which takes
    > the AA batteries because there is nowhere to recharge the L-ion type,
    > without solar panel chargers etc which are usually too fragile and
    > temperamental.
    >
    > I currently have a 5yr old Sony DSC P71 3.2mp camera which is now a bit
    > tired and worn and can be erratic.
    >
    > Open to any recommends of make, compact size and lightweight but main
    > priority is must have AA for power.
    >
    > Thanks in advance
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Tony H.
    > **************************************************
    >
    > Address spam-trapped, please remove shoes to reply
     
    , Jul 29, 2006
    #7
  8. Guest

    JohnR66 Guest

    "ASAAR" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:31:52 +0300, Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:
    >
    >>> Canon's A520 and A530 are fairly small and get good life from 2 AA
    >>> batteries. I think that the A610 and A620 are better cameras with
    >>> quicker all around performance, get extremely long life from AA
    >>> alkaline batteries, have versatile LCD displays that tilt and rotate
    >>> and due to new models probably arriving soon, prices have dropped
    >>> substantially. But they are slightly larger and use 4 AA batteries.

    >>
    >> I would also strongly recommend to the original poster not to discard the
    >> alkaline batteries after the camera says they are empty, since most
    >> cameras
    >> don't drain them to oblivion but mostly down to 1.05 volts, so they could
    >> be
    >> of use to flashlights etc which you might use in mountaineering.

    >
    > Not if incandescent bulbs are used. That voltage should be well
    > below the point at which the filaments would emit a feeble orange
    > glow. But in LED flashlights/torches (whether they're voltage
    > regulated or not) they should provide many hours of bright light.
    > They'd also be useful in radios, although again those voltages would
    > be too low for most digital radios to operate. Since size and
    > weight were considerations, lithium AA batteries would be a good
    > choice, since fewer batteries would be needed, and the number
    > carried would probably weigh less than 1/3 the weight of an
    > equivalent number of alkalines, since they weigh less than alkalines
    > to begin with, and each set of lithiums would probably last more
    > than twice as long each set of alkalines. Lithiums are also without
    > peer in cold weather, performing well in temperatures that would
    > keep the photographers indoors. :)
    >
    >

    After 400 shots (6 months) in my A610, I put the batteries in a incandescent
    flashlight and the light was still very good. While I'm not complaining, 400
    shots is amazing with alkaline power. If the camera was more efficient and
    used up more of the cell's stored energy, I'd probably get 600 shots.

    You are right. Never toss alkaline batteries that were used in a digicam.
    Still plenty of juice left for some other application. LED flashlights are a
    perfect use for them. LEDs efficiency doesn't fall into the gutter like
    incandescent when voltage falls.
    John
     
    JohnR66, Jul 29, 2006
    #8
  9. Guest

    ASAAR Guest

    On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 03:48:30 GMT, JohnR66 wrote:

    > After 400 shots (6 months) in my A610, I put the batteries in a incandescent
    > flashlight and the light was still very good. While I'm not complaining, 400
    > shots is amazing with alkaline power. If the camera was more efficient and
    > used up more of the cell's stored energy, I'd probably get 600 shots.


    Actually, you'd get more than that. More like double that amount.
    The latest NiMH cells have about the same capacity as alkaline AAs,
    and according to most of the camera manuals I've seen, NiMH cells
    are rated at twice the number of shots that alkalines are good for.
    If neither the flash or the LCD is used, I think that Canon's manual
    claims up to nearly 1,500 shots.

    There are several explanations for what you observed, and I don't
    know which fits. You could have replaced the batteries on general
    principles, well before they really needed to be replaced, and the
    voltage would have still been high enough to light filaments
    brightly. Or you could have replaced them when the batteries had
    declined to the point where you were getting battery warnings or
    even had the camera power off automatically due to low voltage. But
    even if the latter, how the camera was used immediately before this
    would have a bearing on the battery's condition. Alkaline battery
    voltages "rebound" fairly quickly, and occasional high currents,
    such as from using the flash, can pull the voltage below the
    camera's operating voltage even if the batteries could still
    otherwise provide many more (as in several hundred) shots if the
    flash and LCD are no longer used. If the camera was used that way
    (no flash or LCD), when the batteries finally give out there would
    be a smaller voltage rebound from a lower voltage, probably not
    enough to boost the voltage to what's needed to light a bulb's
    filament.

    BTW, your A610 gets more shots from its batteries than my Fuji
    S5100 (which is also very efficient) does from its 4 AA cells.
    Shortening my usually somewhat longer battery recounting, when I
    tested the S5100 I was able to take more than 600 shots using the
    original 4 AA batteries packed with the camera, and removed them not
    because they couldn't take any more pictures, but because I tired of
    testing them. Of the 600 shots, more than 100 (of the first 220 or
    so) used the flash, so I assume that if you didn't use the flash
    with your A610, it should have been able to take more than 800 shots
    before the batteries were depleted. Pretty good for alkalines. And
    of course NiMH and lithium AA cells would do much better.


    > You are right. Never toss alkaline batteries that were used in a digicam.
    > Still plenty of juice left for some other application. LED flashlights are a
    > perfect use for them. LEDs efficiency doesn't fall into the gutter like
    > incandescent when voltage falls.


    We know this, yet it's somehow surprising (and a little amazing)
    to take "dead" batteries out of a standard incandescent flashlight,
    put them in an LED flashlight and get a *very* bright light that
    will last for many more hours than fresh batteries would last in the
    incandescent flashlight.
     
    ASAAR, Jul 29, 2006
    #9
  10. Guest

    SMS Guest

    wrote:
    > How many photos are you going to take?
    >
    > The Fugifilm F30 gets over 500 photos on a single charge
    >
    > Also becuse it has mind blowing low light ability, it hardly uses the
    > flash either..
    >
    > The F30 is THE compact of the moment, near SLR quality is what all the
    > tests have discovered


    The F30 should be avoided due to issues of both features and image
    quality. Only if the primary criteria is good low light capability, i.e.
    a lot of indoor shots, should it be considered.
     
    SMS, Jul 29, 2006
    #10
  11. Guest

    John Turco Guest

    "" wrote:
    >
    > How many photos are you going to take?
    >
    > The Fugifilm F30 gets over 500 photos on a single charge
    >
    > Also becuse it has mind blowing low light ability, it hardly uses the
    > flash either..
    >
    > The F30 is THE compact of the moment, near SLR quality is what all the
    > tests have discovered
    >
    > K202


    <edited, for brevity>

    Hello, Kinga202:

    C'mon, man! Post some shots, somewhere, snapped by this devastating
    device of yours.

    You gonna put your megapixels, where your mouth is, or what? <G>


    Cordially,
    John Turco <>
     
    John Turco, Jul 30, 2006
    #11
  12. Guest

    Guest

    John Turco wrote:
    > "" wrote:
    > >
    > > How many photos are you going to take?
    > >
    > > The Fugifilm F30 gets over 500 photos on a single charge
    > >
    > > Also becuse it has mind blowing low light ability, it hardly uses the
    > > flash either..
    > >
    > > The F30 is THE compact of the moment, near SLR quality is what all the
    > > tests have discovered
    > >
    > > K202

    >
    > <edited, for brevity>
    >
    > Hello, Kinga202:
    >
    > C'mon, man! Post some shots, somewhere, snapped by this devastating
    > device of yours.
    >
    > You gonna put your megapixels, where your mouth is, or what? <G>


    Do u want photos from my old workhorse Finepix F420 [Over 10,000 photos
    taken] its the only digital i have and use.And hey its great! [Save for
    battery life]

    Sure its old but does the job and the F30 is W A Y off purchase for me

    Of course if you want to *loan* me one i would be happy to show you my
    photo taking skills

    Cheers

    K202
    >
    >
    > Cordially,
    > John Turco <>
     
    , Jul 30, 2006
    #12
  13. Guest

    John Turco Guest

    "" wrote:
    >
    > John Turco wrote:
    > > "" wrote:
    > > >
    > > > How many photos are you going to take?
    > > >
    > > > The Fugifilm F30 gets over 500 photos on a single charge
    > > >
    > > > Also becuse it has mind blowing low light ability, it hardly uses the
    > > > flash either..
    > > >
    > > > The F30 is THE compact of the moment, near SLR quality is what all the
    > > > tests have discovered
    > > >
    > > > K202

    > >
    > > <edited, for brevity>
    > >
    > > Hello, Kinga202:
    > >
    > > C'mon, man! Post some shots, somewhere, snapped by this devastating
    > > device of yours.
    > >
    > > You gonna put your megapixels, where your mouth is, or what? <G>

    >
    > Do u want photos from my old workhorse Finepix F420 [Over 10,000 photos
    > taken] its the only digital i have and use.And hey its great! [Save for
    > battery life]
    >
    > Sure its old but does the job and the F30 is W A Y off purchase for me


    Hello, Kinga202:

    Sorry, I got the mistaken impression that you already owned a F30.

    > Of course if you want to *loan* me one i would be happy to show you my
    > photo taking skills
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > K202


    How could an incurable Kodakaholic, such as myself, ever "loan" anybody
    a Fuji camera? It's absolutely unthinkable! :p


    Cordially,
    John Turco <>
     
    John Turco, Jul 31, 2006
    #13
  14. >>Open to any recommends of make, compact size and lightweight but main
    >>priority is must have AA for power.

    Your requirements sound similar to mine. I eventually opted for the Canon
    Powershot A700. I've only had it a week but so far am very happy with it.

    Like you, I specifically wanted AA batteries for use in the (very large)
    field and light weight/pocketable. There are lighter cameras than the Canon
    (200g without batteries) but the weight is acceptable (compared with my 540g
    Olympus). 6x optical zoom is nice but lack of image stabilisation is a bit
    of a downer. Full manual control over focus and exposure was another of my
    requirements.

    Keith
     
    Keith Sheppard, Jul 31, 2006
    #14
  15. Guest

    Tony H. Guest

    "SMS" <> wrote in message
    news:44ca4721$0$96159$...
    | <<<Tony H.>>> wrote:
    | > Hi, I travel abroad on mountaineering expeditions for long time periods
    and
    | > in addition to my DSLR Nikon require a small lightweight camera which
    takes
    | > the AA batteries because there is nowhere to recharge the L-ion type,
    | > without solar panel chargers etc which are usually too fragile and
    | > temperamental.
    | >
    | > I currently have a 5yr old Sony DSC P71 3.2mp camera which is now a bit
    | > tired and worn and can be erratic.
    | >
    | > Open to any recommends of make, compact size and lightweight but main
    | > priority is must have AA for power.
    |
    | Canon A610 or A620 are about your only good choices. There is also the
    | Panasonic Lumix DMC-LZ5, but this is not a good choice.
    |
    | Just curious, but are you saying that there are places to buy AA
    | batteries, but no places to charge Li-Ion batteries? If I were going
    | mountaineering for long periods of time without access to stores or
    | power, I'd insist on Li-Ion batteries, as they are so much more dense in
    | terms of power/weight and power/size.
    |

    I take lithium batteries with me from the UK, but am away from a power
    supply for up to 6wks and in the extreme cold typically -15C the batteries
    discharge much more quickly but at least I can keep some AAs on my person to
    benefit from body heat.

    Thanks for the recommend.
    Rgds
     
    Tony H., Aug 1, 2006
    #15
  16. Guest

    Tony H. Guest

    Thanks for the suggestions, will definitely look at the Canons. Tried to get
    the Sony W5 or 7 but no longer in supply.
    Rgds

    "Keith Sheppard" <> wrote in message
    news:4Tkzg.7703$...
    | >>Open to any recommends of make, compact size and lightweight but main
    | >>priority is must have AA for power.
    | Your requirements sound similar to mine. I eventually opted for the Canon
    | Powershot A700. I've only had it a week but so far am very happy with it.
    |
    | Like you, I specifically wanted AA batteries for use in the (very large)
    | field and light weight/pocketable. There are lighter cameras than the
    Canon
    | (200g without batteries) but the weight is acceptable (compared with my
    540g
    | Olympus). 6x optical zoom is nice but lack of image stabilisation is a
    bit
    | of a downer. Full manual control over focus and exposure was another of
    my
    | requirements.
    |
    | Keith
    |
    |
    |
     
    Tony H., Aug 1, 2006
    #16
  17. Guest

    ASAAR Guest

    On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 20:19:47 +0100, Tony H. wrote:

    > | Just curious, but are you saying that there are places to buy AA
    > | batteries, but no places to charge Li-Ion batteries? If I were going
    > | mountaineering for long periods of time without access to stores or
    > | power, I'd insist on Li-Ion batteries, as they are so much more dense in
    > | terms of power/weight and power/size.
    > |
    >
    > I take lithium batteries with me from the UK, but am away from a power
    > supply for up to 6wks and in the extreme cold typically -15C the batteries
    > discharge much more quickly but at least I can keep some AAs on my person to
    > benefit from body heat.


    In such cold weather consider using non-rechargeable lithium AA
    batteries instead of alkaline or NiMH batteries. Keeping the camera
    close to your body may still be warranted, but only for the camera,
    as lithium AA batteries are better suited for cold weather than even
    rechargeable Li-Ion batteries. They're rated for use down to -40ºC,
    and by a coincidence it's the same temperature as -40ºF. :)

    A slight drawback is that they're more expensive, but they have
    other benefits in that AA lithium batteries weigh much less than
    alkaline and NiMH batteries, and that when used in some cameras,
    lithiums can last 2 to 3 times longer than alkaline AA batteries.
     
    ASAAR, Aug 1, 2006
    #17
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