Digital camera to choose?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Leigh Bowden, Sep 17, 2004.

  1. Leigh Bowden

    Leigh Bowden Guest

    Which one to get?

    I would like to get a digital camera probably a Nikon as I have an F301 and
    F70 and a variety of fixed and zoom and manual and auto-focus (D type)
    lenses.

    I'm thinking of either a D70 or a Coolpix 5400.

    As I see the pros and cons of the Coolpix are:

    * Can't change lenses but does cover 28mm to 115mm which is what I use most.
    * Does have a hot shoe.
    * Costs about £299 but will need extra batteries.
    * Reasonably fast performance.
    * Has full manual or fully automatic control and various points in between.

    The pros and cons of the D70 are:

    * Changeable lenses with the AFD but will NOT meter thru the manual lenses.
    * Good battery life.
    * Fast performance.
    * I would need to get a 17-50mm lens or of that ilk to get a "normal" lens.
    * Cost would be about £850 with the extra lens.
    * Can be used manually or automatically.

    Any opinions?

    Ideally I would like:

    * 28mm equivalent at the bottom end.
    * CF cards.
    * It would be nice if it used AA batteries for flexability.
    * A hotshoe for extra flash power.
    Leigh Bowden, Sep 17, 2004
    #1
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  2. Leigh Bowden wrote:
    []
    > Any opinions?
    >
    > Ideally I would like:
    >
    > * 28mm equivalent at the bottom end.
    > * CF cards.
    > * It would be nice if it used AA batteries for flexability.
    > * A hotshoe for extra flash power.


    You should also be aware that Nikon have just released the 8MP 8400 -
    24mm - 85mm zoom etc.

    http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/digitalcamera/coolpix/8400/index.htm

    Might drop the price on the 5400...

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Sep 17, 2004
    #2
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  3. Leigh Bowden

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 19:05:12 +0100, in rec.photo.digital "Leigh Bowden"
    <> wrote:

    >Which one to get?

    snip snip snip

    Do you care at all about the f# of the lens, or high ISO capability for
    "low" light situations, especially those which need a relatively high
    shutter speed?
    ________________________________________________________
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    See images taken with my CP-990 and 5700 at
    http://EdwardGRuf.com
    Ed Ruf, Sep 18, 2004
    #3
  4. Leigh Bowden

    bob Guest

    "Leigh Bowden" <> wrote in news:cif925$pt7
    $:

    > I'm thinking of either a D70 or a Coolpix 5400.
    >
    > As I see the pros and cons of the Coolpix are:
    >


    You didn't mention size & shape. The 5400 is smaller than a D70. I have a
    5000. The shutter lag is bad for some types of photography. I'm guessing
    the D70 is better in that regard.

    Bob

    --
    Delete the inverse SPAM to reply
    bob, Sep 18, 2004
    #4
  5. Leigh Bowden

    Leigh Bowden Guest

    Forgot to mention that the D70 will suffer from sensor grot the Coolpix will
    not.

    The D70 appears to be pretty fast in most forms of operation but an overall
    speed freak is not really that important. The Coolpix would probably be fast
    enough from what I have read. The Coolpix also appears to have a reasonably
    fast lens - well f2.8-4.

    If the D70 could take and meter with my manual focus Nikon lenses the choice
    would be automatic but it can't. The Coolpix can take my flash though.
    "Leigh Bowden" <> wrote in message
    news:cif925$pt7$...
    > Which one to get?
    >
    > I would like to get a digital camera probably a Nikon as I have an F301

    and
    > F70 and a variety of fixed and zoom and manual and auto-focus (D type)
    > lenses.
    >
    > I'm thinking of either a D70 or a Coolpix 5400.
    >
    > As I see the pros and cons of the Coolpix are:
    >
    > * Can't change lenses but does cover 28mm to 115mm which is what I use

    most.
    > * Does have a hot shoe.
    > * Costs about £299 but will need extra batteries.
    > * Reasonably fast performance.
    > * Has full manual or fully automatic control and various points in

    between.
    >
    > The pros and cons of the D70 are:
    >
    > * Changeable lenses with the AFD but will NOT meter thru the manual

    lenses.
    > * Good battery life.
    > * Fast performance.
    > * I would need to get a 17-50mm lens or of that ilk to get a "normal"

    lens.
    > * Cost would be about £850 with the extra lens.
    > * Can be used manually or automatically.
    >
    > Any opinions?
    >
    > Ideally I would like:
    >
    > * 28mm equivalent at the bottom end.
    > * CF cards.
    > * It would be nice if it used AA batteries for flexability.
    > * A hotshoe for extra flash power.
    >
    >
    Leigh Bowden, Sep 18, 2004
    #5
  6. Leigh Bowden

    Alan Meyer Guest

    "Leigh Bowden" <> wrote in message
    news:cif925$pt7$...
    excerpts:
    > As I see the pros and cons of the Coolpix are:
    > * Costs about £299 but will need extra batteries.
    >
    > The pros and cons of the D70 are:
    > * Cost would be about £850 with the extra lens.


    That's a pretty big difference in cost. Unless you have
    a lot of money (nothing wrong with that if you've got it)
    or the D70 is really, really better, the economic choice
    is clear.

    One way I think about electronics these days is that
    they obsolesce so quickly that I hate to pay high
    prices for state of the art equipment that will only be
    state of the art for a couple of years. Especially when
    high quality equipment with slightly lower specifications
    can be so much cheaper.

    Alan
    Alan Meyer, Sep 18, 2004
    #6
  7. Leigh Bowden

    Prometheus Guest

    In article <>, Alan Meyer
    <> writes
    >"Leigh Bowden" <> wrote in message
    >news:cif925$pt7$...
    >excerpts:
    >> As I see the pros and cons of the Coolpix are:
    >> * Costs about £299 but will need extra batteries.
    >>
    >> The pros and cons of the D70 are:
    >> * Cost would be about £850 with the extra lens.

    >
    >That's a pretty big difference in cost. Unless you have
    >a lot of money (nothing wrong with that if you've got it)
    >or the D70 is really, really better, the economic choice
    >is clear.
    >
    >One way I think about electronics these days is that
    >they obsolesce so quickly that I hate to pay high
    >prices for state of the art equipment that will only be
    >state of the art for a couple of years. Especially when
    >high quality equipment with slightly lower specifications
    >can be so much cheaper.


    Are you saying that your 20d or 2d will stop working next year?

    --
    Ian G8ILZ
    Prometheus, Sep 19, 2004
    #7
  8. Leigh Bowden

    Alan Meyer Guest

    "Prometheus" <Prometheus@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    news:yESCp$...
    > In article <>, Alan Meyer
    > <> writes

    ....
    > >One way I think about electronics these days is that
    > >they obsolesce so quickly that I hate to pay high
    > >prices for state of the art equipment that will only be
    > >state of the art for a couple of years. Especially when
    > >high quality equipment with slightly lower specifications
    > >can be so much cheaper.

    >
    > Are you saying that your 20d or 2d will stop working next year?


    Just the opposite.

    You pay $1000 for camera A or $300 for camera B.

    Right now A looks like a real state of the art camera. But
    three years from now it may not look that way. The camera
    may still be good for 20 years, but will only be
    state of the art, worth $1000, for three of those years.

    You might do better in the long run using your
    $1000 to buy a $300 at more frequent intervals.

    Consider:

    Plan A - Buy a $1000 camera and keep it 18 years.
    Plan B - Buy a $300 camera every 6 years.

    With plan A you may have a better camera for 6 of
    the 18 years and a worse camera for 12 of them.

    With plan B you may have a better camera for 12
    of the 18 years, plus you save $100, plus you have
    two extra cameras to use as backups, give to your kids
    or whatever.

    Alan
    Alan Meyer, Sep 22, 2004
    #8
  9. >>Consider:
    >>
    >> Plan A - Buy a $1000 camera and keep it 18 years.
    >> Plan B - Buy a $300 camera every 6 years.
    >>
    >>With plan A you may have a better camera for 6 of
    >>the 18 years and a worse camera for 12 of them.


    Or plan C, buy the cheap camera, find it works for you, you really love it,
    and stick with it.

    When the Oly C2100UZ first came out (2000 or thereabouts?) it was state of
    the art and cost, I think, getting on for 1000 UK pounds.

    I bought one just after Oly stopped making them, when the price had fallen
    to about 300 pounds because by that time 2Mp was looking distinctly old
    fashioned. Now I couldn't imagine doing without it. I can't imagine
    replacing it until it falls to bits. It meets my requirements so why should
    I change it?

    Keith
    Keith Sheppard, Sep 22, 2004
    #9
  10. In message <K0b4d.26$>, Keith Sheppard
    <> writes
    >>>Consider:
    >>>
    >>> Plan A - Buy a $1000 camera and keep it 18 years.
    >>> Plan B - Buy a $300 camera every 6 years.
    >>>
    >>>With plan A you may have a better camera for 6 of
    >>>the 18 years and a worse camera for 12 of them.

    >
    >Or plan C, buy the cheap camera, find it works for you, you really love it,
    >and stick with it.
    >
    >When the Oly C2100UZ first came out (2000 or thereabouts?) it was state of
    >the art and cost, I think, getting on for 1000 UK pounds.
    >
    >I bought one just after Oly stopped making them, when the price had fallen
    >to about 300 pounds because by that time 2Mp was looking distinctly old
    >fashioned. Now I couldn't imagine doing without it. I can't imagine
    >replacing it until it falls to bits. It meets my requirements so why should
    >I change it?
    >
    >Keith
    >
    >

    My C2100uz detached itself from its mode control again at the start of
    summer and Olympus cocked up somewhat with the repair, losing my pride
    and joy for a while. They offered to replace it with a C770uz for free.

    I had to think long and hard.

    I accepted a loan of a reconditioned C2100uz for an extended trip abroad
    while they got my old faithful back to me. I am still happy I made the
    right decision.

    Now if he had offered the 8080 I would have gone the other way and
    grabbed it with both hands.

    But I would have had to scour EBay for a decent C2100uz for the long
    stuff!
    --
    David Greenhough
    David Greenhough, Sep 22, 2004
    #10
  11. Leigh Bowden

    ECM Guest

    "Leigh Bowden" <> wrote in message news:<ciicn8$57u$>...
    > Forgot to mention that the D70 will suffer from sensor grot the Coolpix will
    > not.
    >
    > The D70 appears to be pretty fast in most forms of operation but an overall
    > speed freak is not really that important. The Coolpix would probably be fast
    > enough from what I have read. The Coolpix also appears to have a reasonably
    > fast lens - well f2.8-4.
    >
    > If the D70 could take and meter with my manual focus Nikon lenses the choice
    > would be automatic but it can't. The Coolpix can take my flash though.


    SNIP

    You really are talking apples and oranges here. The D70 is a large,
    expensive almost professional level D-SLR; it's like a a Porche Boxter
    (not a Ferrari - that'd be the D100). The 5400 is small, relatively
    inexpensive barely prosumer camera - sort of a Mazda Miata (sporty but
    limited horsepower, cheaper construction - not in the same league as
    the Porche).

    It's hard to recommend one of these when they're so different -
    perhaps if you mentioned what you will do with it, whether picture
    quality is important (the D70 will blow the 5400 away, of course),
    etc. If the D70 is even an option, maybe you should look at the 8400
    (24-85mm) or the new 8800 with a macro lens - they're about the same
    price, and the picture quality will be better, and your flash should
    work with them.

    Good Luck!
    ECM
    ECM, Sep 22, 2004
    #11
  12. Leigh Bowden

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 23:26:05 +0100, in rec.photo.digital "Leigh Bowden"
    <> wrote:

    >Forgot to mention that the D70 will suffer from sensor grot the Coolpix will
    >not.


    Not sure what you mean by grot. If you mean contamination of the low pass
    filter, this can be cleaned.

    >The D70 appears to be pretty fast in most forms of operation but an overall
    >speed freak is not really that important. The Coolpix would probably be fast
    >enough from what I have read. The Coolpix also appears to have a reasonably
    >fast lens - well f2.8-4.


    What part or fast do you mean, just the lens? I just moved to a D70 this
    week from a 5700 and a 990 before that. How important is the turn on time
    to you? Then add the focus time. Is this important to you? If so the two
    will be light years apart.

    How important is the zoom ring to you? The buttons are a totally different
    feel/experience, and they can't be used until the camera is fully powered
    up. My 5700 has no setting to remember the zoom from when powered down as
    my 990 did, is this important to you? I'd imagine the 5400 follows this
    behavior. You may need to power up, then zoom in before being able to take
    your shot, consider this. It is considerably different from what you are
    used to,

    Do you normal use filters, UV/ polarizing, etc? How do you intend to use
    them? NextPhoto has adapters, I use them on my 5700, but there are
    compromises and other issues in use. Can block flash, need to be removed if
    adding converter lenses, etc.

    Finally, the sensors in the two cameras are different sizes with different
    level of noise associated with them. How important is this to you? Do you
    intend to need to use higher ISOs? You'll probably need to look into
    software noise filtering then. I use Neat Image for the 5700 at all ISO
    above 100. On the D70 ISO1600 appears to have less noise than ISO 400 on
    the 5700, might even be better then ISO 200, Only having the D70 for a few
    days I haven't yet come to a real conclusion. At lowest ISOs the D70 is
    much cleaner than my 5700. Take a real look at images on DPReview and
    decide how important this is to you.

    All this said, the P&S digicams have their place. Just be sure you are
    aware of what you are getting into, especially coming from the SLR side.
    Their size/weight/movie advantages may or may not outweigh their short
    comings in other areas. Only you can decide what is best for you.
    ________________________________________________________
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    See images taken with my CP-990 and 5700 at
    http://EdwardGRuf.com
    Ed Ruf, Sep 25, 2004
    #12
  13. Leigh Bowden

    Alan Meyer Guest

    "David Greenhough" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In message <K0b4d.26$>, Keith Sheppard
    > <> writes
    > >>>Consider:
    > >>>
    > >>> Plan A - Buy a $1000 camera and keep it 18 years.
    > >>> Plan B - Buy a $300 camera every 6 years.
    > >>>
    > >>>With plan A you may have a better camera for 6 of
    > >>>the 18 years and a worse camera for 12 of them.

    > >
    > >Or plan C, buy the cheap camera, find it works for you, you really love it,
    > >and stick with it.
    > >
    > >When the Oly C2100UZ first came out (2000 or thereabouts?) it was state of
    > >the art and cost, I think, getting on for 1000 UK pounds.
    > >
    > >I bought one just after Oly stopped making them, when the price had fallen
    > >to about 300 pounds because by that time 2Mp was looking distinctly old
    > >fashioned. Now I couldn't imagine doing without it. I can't imagine
    > >replacing it until it falls to bits. It meets my requirements so why should
    > >I change it?
    > >
    > >Keith
    > >
    > >

    > My C2100uz detached itself from its mode control again at the start of
    > summer and Olympus cocked up somewhat with the repair, losing my pride
    > and joy for a while. They offered to replace it with a C770uz for free.
    >
    > I had to think long and hard.
    >
    > I accepted a loan of a reconditioned C2100uz for an extended trip abroad
    > while they got my old faithful back to me. I am still happy I made the
    > right decision.
    >
    > Now if he had offered the 8080 I would have gone the other way and
    > grabbed it with both hands.
    >
    > But I would have had to scour EBay for a decent C2100uz for the long
    > stuff!
    > --
    > David Greenhough


    I can't disagree with any of that. In fact, in 20 years,
    you'll have a conversation piece and in 40 years a
    valuable antique, as well as well loved old digital
    camera.

    However, you still might want to plonk down 300 or
    maybe 100-200, for something better some day. It
    is sad but true that you will get sharper, more detailed
    photos, in more difficult conditions, with a more
    advanced camera than with your old love.

    Alan
    Alan Meyer, Sep 26, 2004
    #13
  14. Leigh Bowden

    Prometheus Guest

    In article <>, Alan Meyer
    <> writes
    >
    >"Prometheus" <Prometheus@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    >news:yESCp$...
    >> In article <>, Alan Meyer
    >> <> writes

    >...
    >> >One way I think about electronics these days is that
    >> >they obsolesce so quickly that I hate to pay high
    >> >prices for state of the art equipment that will only be
    >> >state of the art for a couple of years. Especially when
    >> >high quality equipment with slightly lower specifications
    >> >can be so much cheaper.

    >>
    >> Are you saying that your 20d or 2d will stop working next year?

    >
    >Just the opposite.
    >
    >You pay $1000 for camera A or $300 for camera B.
    >
    >Right now A looks like a real state of the art camera. But
    >three years from now it may not look that way.


    True, but will your photographs benefit from the features on the newer
    model/

    >The camera
    >may still be good for 20 years, but will only be
    >state of the art,


    True, but is the object to take photographs or have a state of the art
    toy?.

    >worth $1000, for three of those years.


    Are you buying it to use now or to sell?

    >You might do better in the long run using your
    >$1000 to buy a $300 at more frequent intervals.


    That way you will always be using a camera that is not state of the art,
    next year's middle priced model might equal might equal last year's
    state of the art high priced model but it will not equal next year's
    high priced model.

    >Consider:
    >
    > Plan A - Buy a $1000 camera and keep it 18 years.
    > Plan B - Buy a $300 camera every 6 years.
    >
    >With plan A you may have a better camera for 6 of
    >the 18 years and a worse camera for 12 of them.


    It might well be worse than wait is available later, but unless your
    requirements have become more demanding it is no worse than when you
    bought it.

    >With plan B you may have a better camera for 12
    >of the 18 years,


    Whilst it might be better (than what however?) but it will always be
    second (or third) best.

    >plus you save $100,


    I do not consider a parsimonious saving of $100 of 18 years to be
    important, that is about a third of a cent per week!

    >plus you have
    >two extra cameras to use as backups,


    That makes some sense providing compatibility of operation and
    accessories is not an issue.

    >give to your kids
    >or whatever.


    Now that does make sense.

    There is one other point in favour of your suggested approach, and that
    is not everyone can afford to purchase a state of the art camera, or
    indeed get the benefit it can confirm, so using the appropriate tool and
    upgrading as and when does make sense. Starting with second (or third)
    best when you can afford and take advantage of best does not make sense.


    --
    Ian G8ILZ
    Prometheus, Sep 27, 2004
    #14
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