digital backs

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by jane, May 3, 2006.

  1. jane

    jane Guest

    has anyone used Phase One's P30 back yet? am still debating over what
    to buy for work that involves taking photographs of (static) works of
    art. The battle between Imacon and Phase One is brutal (at least in
    Europe) and it's hard to find unbiased views from porfessionals who've
    actually used them.

    Would a P30 back for instance be too "strong" for a Mamiya RZ using a
    90mm lens? There's an offer on at the moment for Phase One's P30,
    attached to a Hasselblad H2 with an 80mm lens that is retailing for
    19,000 euros (without tax). Any thoughts on this? I sound like a
    neophyte because I'm writing on behalf of my husband who is the
    photographer --- I'm translating and purchasing!

    many thanks!

    jane
    jane, May 3, 2006
    #1
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  2. jane

    Bill Hilton Guest

    > jane writes ...
    >
    > has anyone used Phase One's P30 back yet?


    I haven't used one but here are a couple of reviews of the smaller P-25
    and larger P-45 backs from Phase One that might be of interest.

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/Cramer.shtml
    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/p25-field.shtml

    >The battle between Imacon and Phase One is brutal (at least in
    >Europe) and it's hard to find unbiased views from porfessionals
    >who've actually used them


    I know six guys (including Cramer and Atkinson in the article linked to
    above) who have tested various MF and LF backs head-to-head and all six
    picked the Phase One backs, at least for outdoors work. There may be
    other things go consider for your usage photographing artworks but the
    guys I know picked Phase One. I think one advantage is the software
    since the Phase One Capture One raw converter software is extremely
    good.

    > Would a P30 back for instance be too "strong" for a Mamiya RZ
    > using a 90mm lens?


    What do you mean by "too strong"? If you are referring to the crop
    factor (where the 90 mm becomes effectively something longer due to the
    smaller sensor size) then you could back up or buy a wider angle lens.
    If you are asking if this lens has enough resolving power to take
    advantage of the high resolution of this size sensor, then I don't know
    but would think at f/8 or f/11 you should be OK. I have five Mamiya
    lenses for their 6x7 rangefinder camera and they are excellent, but I
    think the RZ lenses aren't quite to that level.

    >There's an offer on at the moment for Phase One's P30,
    >attached to a Hasselblad H2 with an 80mm lens that is retailing
    >for 19,000 euros (without tax). Any thoughts on this?


    I know Hasselblad is pushing the Imacon back (since the merger) but
    many people with Blad's are using the Phase One, like Bill Atkinson in
    one of the articles linked to above (he's the smartest digital guru
    I've ever met). Before spending that much money I'd insist on doing
    some test shots, ideally with both backs you are considering, and also
    consider the costs of leasing.

    Bill
    Bill Hilton, May 3, 2006
    #2
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  3. jane

    jane Guest

    Dear Bill,
    thank you so much for your input. Out here in the middle of Kansas,
    France information is hard to come by (and so are leasing
    possibilities). I'll follow your advice and we'll do some serious test
    driving. Merci, merci!
    Jane
    jane, May 4, 2006
    #3
  4. jane

    jane Guest

    Dear Bill,
    thank you so much for your input. Out here in the middle of Kansas,
    France information is hard to come by (and so are leasing
    possibilities). I'll follow your advice and we'll do some serious test
    driving. Merci, merci!
    Jane
    jane, May 4, 2006
    #4
  5. jane

    Bill Hilton Guest

    > jane writes ...
    >
    >Dear Bill,
    >thank you so much for your input. Out here in the middle of Kansas,
    >France information is hard to come by (and so are leasing
    >possibilities). I'll follow your advice and we'll do some serious test
    >driving. Merci, merci!


    Here's a link on leasing Phase One backs ...
    http://www.phaseone.com/Content/p1digitalbacks/Leasing.aspx

    >From your post I can't tell if you're "in the middle of Kansas" or

    France :) But here's a list of dealers in North America, if you're in
    Kansas I think I see a Texas # so that would be the guy to contact
    about a demo ... on their web site they also mentioned a road show ...
    if in France there are dealer links for Europe on the site as well.

    I'm pretty sure Imacon and Hasselblad offer something similar with
    demos and leasing (I'm familiar with Phase One thru their Raw converter
    software).

    Bill
    Bill Hilton, May 4, 2006
    #5
  6. jane

    Bill Hilton Guest

    > jane writes ...
    >
    > has anyone used Phase One's P30 back yet? ... it's hard
    > to find unbiased views from porfessionals who've actually
    > used them.


    Jane, your original post is about 3 weeks old by now but recently I saw
    a comparison on the web that might be of interest if you're still
    looking at various backs ... they tested the following items ...
    Phase One P45 back(s): 39 Megapixel
    Phase One P30 back: 31 Megapixel
    Phase One P25 back: 22 Megapixel
    Canon 1Ds MKII with Canon Macro 100mm f/2.8: 16.6 Megapixel
    Canon 5D with with Canon Macro 100mm f/2.8 : 12.7 Megapixel
    Canon 1Ds with with Canon Macro 100mm f/2.8 : 11 Megapixels
    Linhof 679cs camera with Rodenstock HR digital lenses: Various backs
    Linhof 4X5 camera with Sironar HM lenses: Drum scanned film
    Linhof 4X5 camera with Sironar N lenses and BetterLight Super 6K
    scanning back
    Hasselblad H1 with Hasselblad H lenses: Various backs
    Mamiya 645 with Mamiya lenses: P45 39 Megapixel and drum scanned Velvia

    The best part is that you can buy a DVD from them for around $10 with
    the original RAW files (plus demo software to convert the RAW files) so
    you can compare the results for yourself, ideally in prints at the
    sizes you're most interested in printing.

    If interested the link is
    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/back-testing.shtml ... I took
    a 3-day advanced Photoshop class from two of these guys (Atkinson and
    Cramer) and they are very sharp individuals (Atkinson was one of the
    early Macintosh software gurus).

    Bill
    Bill Hilton, May 23, 2006
    #6
  7. In article <>, Bill
    Hilton <> writes
    >> jane writes ...
    >>
    >> has anyone used Phase One's P30 back yet? ... it's hard
    >> to find unbiased views from porfessionals who've actually
    >> used them.

    >
    >Jane, your original post is about 3 weeks old by now but recently I saw
    >a comparison on the web that might be of interest if you're still
    >looking at various backs ... they tested the following items ...
    >Phase One P45 back(s): 39 Megapixel
    >Phase One P30 back: 31 Megapixel
    >Phase One P25 back: 22 Megapixel
    >Canon 1Ds MKII with Canon Macro 100mm f/2.8: 16.6 Megapixel
    >Canon 5D with with Canon Macro 100mm f/2.8 : 12.7 Megapixel
    >Canon 1Ds with with Canon Macro 100mm f/2.8 : 11 Megapixels
    >Linhof 679cs camera with Rodenstock HR digital lenses: Various backs
    >Linhof 4X5 camera with Sironar HM lenses: Drum scanned film
    >Linhof 4X5 camera with Sironar N lenses and BetterLight Super 6K
    >scanning back
    >Hasselblad H1 with Hasselblad H lenses: Various backs
    >Mamiya 645 with Mamiya lenses: P45 39 Megapixel and drum scanned Velvia
    >
    >The best part is that you can buy a DVD from them for around $10 with
    >the original RAW files (plus demo software to convert the RAW files) so
    >you can compare the results for yourself, ideally in prints at the
    >sizes you're most interested in printing.
    >
    >If interested the link is
    >http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/back-testing.shtml ... I took
    >a 3-day advanced Photoshop class from two of these guys (Atkinson and
    >Cramer) and they are very sharp individuals (Atkinson was one of the
    >early Macintosh software gurus).
    >
    >Bill
    >

    Thanks for posting that, Bill.

    Interesting how much the 5D sensor improved over the 1Ds. The 1Ds MkII
    is clearly better, but not (on the web blowups) enough to justify the
    price/weight difference for me. (It may be different for someone else,
    or the differences may be more obvious from the RAW files.

    Seemed to me the 5D was only barely inferior to the scanned 645, and the
    1DsII was superior.

    I don't envisage paying £15-20k for a Phase 1 back, so I suppose it is
    (for me) rather academic how they compare!

    David
    --
    David Littlewood
    David Littlewood, May 23, 2006
    #7
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