Did Nathan Mercer Ever Pay Up?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. On this wager
    <http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/e4338c4425da424c>.

    And while we're on Famous Last Words:
    <http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/1129cd55159c9156>.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Aug 12, 2009
    #1
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  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    JohnO Guest

    On Aug 12, 11:46 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    > On this wager
    > <http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/e4338c4425da424c>.


    Eh? He offered a bet on whether "it it will in time become the default
    browser of choice. "

    But you then attempted to change the bet to "Firefox/Mozilla will
    maintain or increase market share over
    the next 12 months".

    How dishonest of you.

    So, has F/M become the "default browser of choice"? I think not. When
    will you be paying up, weasel?

    >
    > And while we're on Famous Last Words:
    > <http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/1129cd55159c9156>.
     
    JohnO, Aug 12, 2009
    #2
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  3. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    JohnO Guest

    On Aug 12, 1:21 pm, JohnO <> wrote:
    > On Aug 12, 11:46 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    >
    > central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    > > On this wager
    > > <http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/e4338c4425da424c>.

    >
    > Eh? He offered a bet on whether "it it will in time become the default
    > browser of choice. "
    >
    > But you then attempted to change the bet to "Firefox/Mozilla will
    > maintain or increase market share over
    > the next 12 months".
    >
    > How dishonest of you.
    >
    > So, has F/M become the "default browser of choice"? I think not. When
    > will you be paying up, weasel?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > And while we're on Famous Last Words:
    > > <http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/1129cd55159c9156>.


    Well, not you... "cheetah' whoever that is.
     
    JohnO, Aug 12, 2009
    #3
  4. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    impossible Guest

    Re: A Larry D'Loser double con

    "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    news:h5svtb$uc4$...
    > On this wager
    > <http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/e4338c4425da424c>.
    >


    Typical Larry D'Loser con job -- No, Firefox/Mozilla has NOT become the
    default browser of choice, just as Nathan predicted.

    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0

    > And while we're on Famous Last Words:
    > <http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/1129cd55159c9156>.


    Typical Larry D'Loser con job -- No, 5 years on, IE remains the browser of
    choice by a wide margin, just as I predicted.

    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0
     
    impossible, Aug 12, 2009
    #4
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    impossible Guest

    Re: A Larry D'Loser double con

    "Donchano" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 01:25:29 GMT, "impossible" <>
    > shouted from the highest rooftop:
    >
    >>Typical Larry D'Loser con job -- No, 5 years on, IE remains the browser of
    >>choice by a wide margin, just as I predicted.

    >
    > Of choice or by default due to ignornace and/or laziness.
    >


    The majority is stupi", right? Is that all you've got?
     
    impossible, Aug 12, 2009
    #5
  6. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    impossible Guest

    "Donchano" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:21:26 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <>
    > shouted from the highest rooftop:
    >
    >>On Aug 12, 11:46 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    >>central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    >>> On this wager
    >>> <http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/e4338c4425da424c>.

    >>
    >>Eh? He offered a bet on whether "it it will in time become the default
    >>browser of choice. "

    >
    > Speaking of choice, I have a good friend who used to be a successful
    > web designer eight years ago. But he downright refused to make his
    > designs compatible with Firefox even though FF held around ten percent
    > of the market and I had statistics that showed something like 15% of
    > the browsers used to visit my websites were FF.
    >
    > We had many discussions about this. Some heated - especially since he
    > preferred to use Firefox himself. But no. He stuck by his guns ....
    > and started losing clients right, left and centre. After all, he was
    > ignoring 10% of THEIR potential customers.
    >
    > He's still a top graphic designer, and 3D animator, but the web design
    > part of his business is long gone. Silly boy ...
    >
    >


    Your friend is a top graphic designer and 3D animator who couldn't be
    bothered with your ideological crusade on behalf of Firefox. Gee, what a
    surprise.
     
    impossible, Aug 12, 2009
    #6
  7. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Matty F Guest

    Re: A Larry D'Loser double con

    On Aug 12, 1:25 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:

    > Typical Larry D'Loser con job -- No, 5 years on, IE remains the browser of
    > choice by a wide margin, just as I predicted.


    How would anyone know what browser people are using?
    I have Opera configured to pretend that it's IE, otherwise Xtra/Yahoo
    mail doesn't work. Xtra/Yahoo allow only IE & Firefox. Their websites
    work perfectly well with Opera.
    Besides IE is used by many people who know nothing about computers,
    and IE is on their machine already.
     
    Matty F, Aug 12, 2009
    #7
  8. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Matty F Guest

    Re: A Larry D'Loser double con

    On Aug 12, 6:29 pm, Donchano <> wrote:
    > On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:05:57 -0700 (PDT), Matty F
    > <> shouted from the highest rooftop:
    >
    >
    >
    > >How would anyone know what browser people are using?

    >
    > Simple. All I have to do is look at my web statistics to see exactly
    > what browser people are using to visit my websites. Last time I looked
    > a few minutes ago Firefox accounted for around 28%. and MSIE just over
    > 60%.
    >
    > The top 6 browsers were:
    >
    > 1. MSIE
    > 2. FIrefox
    > 3. Safari
    > 4. Netscape (compatible)
    > 5. Mozilla
    > 6. Opera


    You seem to have missed my point. I said "I have Opera configured to
    pretend that it's IE "
    Therefore your statistics are wrong. The IE statistics include all the
    other browsers that are pretending to be IE because of the moronic
    sites that test for other browsers an won''t allow them.
    e.g. Xtra/Yahoo mail.
     
    Matty F, Aug 12, 2009
    #8
  9. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    victor Guest

    Re: A Larry D'Loser double con

    Donchano wrote:
    > On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:05:57 -0700 (PDT), Matty F
    > <> shouted from the highest rooftop:
    >
    >> How would anyone know what browser people are using?

    >
    > Simple. All I have to do is look at my web statistics to see exactly
    > what browser people are using to visit my websites. Last time I looked
    > a few minutes ago Firefox accounted for around 28%. and MSIE just over
    > 60%.
    >
    > The top 6 browsers were:
    >
    > 1. MSIE
    > 2. FIrefox
    > 3. Safari
    > 4. Netscape (compatible)
    > 5. Mozilla
    > 6. Opera
    > .
    >

    Opera does quite a lot better in the Net Applications survey.
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10303614-92.html
    So does Google Chrome.
    Is your site targeted at slow adopters ?
     
    victor, Aug 12, 2009
    #9
  10. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    impossible Guest

    Re: A Larry D'Loser double con

    "Matty F" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Aug 12, 1:25 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Typical Larry D'Loser con job -- No, 5 years on, IE remains the browser
    >> of
    >> choice by a wide margin, just as I predicted.

    >
    > How would anyone know what browser people are using?


    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0

    The research methodology is clearly explained on that site.
     
    impossible, Aug 12, 2009
    #10
  11. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    impossible Guest

    Re: A Larry D'Loser double con

    "Crash" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:05:57 -0700 (PDT), Matty F
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Aug 12, 1:25 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Typical Larry D'Loser con job -- No, 5 years on, IE remains the browser
    >>> of
    >>> choice by a wide margin, just as I predicted.

    >>
    >>How would anyone know what browser people are using?
    >>I have Opera configured to pretend that it's IE, otherwise Xtra/Yahoo
    >>mail doesn't work. Xtra/Yahoo allow only IE & Firefox. Their websites
    >>work perfectly well with Opera.
    >>Besides IE is used by many people who know nothing about computers,
    >>and IE is on their machine already.

    >
    > Agreed. I suggest that the popularity of IE is not because it is the
    > browser chosen by most web users but because it is the browser that
    > comes with Windows - the most popular OS in use today.
    > --


    Ok, now read that sentence back to yourself -- slowly this time -- and see
    if you can spot the reason why freetards have a reputation for making really
    stupid arguments.
     
    impossible, Aug 12, 2009
    #11
  12. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Matty F Guest

    Re: A Larry D'Loser double con

    On Aug 12, 11:28 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    > "Matty F" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    > > On Aug 12, 1:25 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:

    >
    > >> Typical Larry D'Loser con job -- No, 5 years on, IE remains the browser
    > >> of
    > >> choice by a wide margin, just as I predicted.

    >
    > > How would anyone know what browser people are using?

    >
    > http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0
    >
    > The research methodology is clearly explained on that site.


    I can't see any research methodology there. All I see is a list
    claiming to be "market share" (although it ignores that my Opera has
    to pretend to be IE)
    and a survey that asks "Which is the best browser" with the result:

    Firefox 63%
    Opera 14%
    Internet Explorer 12%
    Safari 11%
     
    Matty F, Aug 12, 2009
    #12
  13. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    impossible Guest

    Re: A Larry D'Loser double con

    "Matty F" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Aug 12, 11:28 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    >> "Matty F" <> wrote in message
    >>
    >> news:...
    >>
    >> > On Aug 12, 1:25 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:

    >>
    >> >> Typical Larry D'Loser con job -- No, 5 years on, IE remains the
    >> >> browser
    >> >> of
    >> >> choice by a wide margin, just as I predicted.

    >>
    >> > How would anyone know what browser people are using?

    >>
    >> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0
    >>
    >> The research methodology is clearly explained on that site.

    >
    > I can't see any research methodology there.


    Are you really that incompetent? What possible difference can it make to you
    what bloody browser you use when you haven't the skills of a ten-year old to
    make use of it?!

    "About Our Market Share Statistics
    "This data provides valuable insight into significant trends for internet
    usage. These statistics include monthly information on key statistics such
    as browser trends (e.g. Internet Explorer vs. Firefox market share), search
    engine referral data (e.g. Yahoo vs. MSN vs. Google traffic market share)
    and operating system share (Windows vs. Mac vs. Linux market share or even
    the iPhone market share vs. Windows Mobile).

    "We use a unique methodology for collecting this data. We collect data from
    the browsers of site visitors to our exclusive on-demand network of live
    stats customers. The data is compiled from approximately 160 million
    visitors per month. The information published is an aggregate of the data
    from this network of hosted website statistics. The site unique visitor and
    referral information is summarized on a monthly, weekly, daily and hourly
    basis.

    "In addition, we classify 430+ referral sources identified as search
    engines. Aggregate traffic referrals from these engines are summarized and
    reported on. The statistics for search engines include both organic and
    sponsored referrals. The websites in our population represent almost all
    countries on earth.

    "The data is made available free of charge on a monthly basis that includes
    monthly browser market share trends, top search engine referrals, screen
    resolutions, top ISPs and operating systems trends. An upgraded version is
    available that provides reports by geolocation, preview weekly data and
    other features."

    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/default.aspx

    > All I see is a list
    > claiming to be "market share" (although it ignores that my Opera has
    > to pretend to be IE)....


    Clearly, you are dumb AND blind.

    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0

    MSIE: 67.8%
    Firefox 22.5%


    > and a survey that asks "Which is the best browser" with the result:
    >
    > Firefox 63%
    > Opera 14%
    > Internet Explorer 12%
    > Safari 11%


    Yeah, right. You're hopelessly lost.
     
    impossible, Aug 13, 2009
    #13
  14. In message <>, Donchano wrote:

    > The top 6 browsers were:
    >
    > 1. MSIE


    Which is fragmented into at least 3 mutually-incompatible pieces right now:
    IE7 is less nonstandard than IE6, but nonstandard in different ways; and IE8
    hews much more closely to standards, but this breaks compatibility with IE7
    and IE6. This seems to have put a lot of people off IE8, though oddly, it
    doesn't stop Firefox.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Aug 13, 2009
    #14
  15. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Matty F Guest

    Re: A Larry D'Loser double con

    On Aug 13, 12:55 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    > "Matty F" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Aug 12, 11:28 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    > >> "Matty F" <> wrote in message

    >
    > >>news:...

    >
    > >> > On Aug 12, 1:25 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:

    >
    > >> >> Typical Larry D'Loser con job -- No, 5 years on, IE remains the
    > >> >> browser
    > >> >> of
    > >> >> choice by a wide margin, just as I predicted.

    >
    > >> > How would anyone know what browser people are using?

    >
    > >>http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0

    >
    > >> The research methodology is clearly explained on that site.

    >
    > > I can't see any research methodology there.

    >
    > Are you really that incompetent? What possible difference can it make to you
    > what bloody browser you use when you haven't the skills of a ten-year old to
    > make use of it?!
    >
    > "About Our Market Share Statistics
    > "This data provides valuable insight into significant trends for internet
    > usage. These statistics include monthly information on key statistics such
    > as browser trends (e.g. Internet Explorer vs. Firefox market share), search
    > engine referral data (e.g. Yahoo vs. MSN vs. Google traffic market share)
    > and operating system share (Windows vs. Mac vs. Linux market share or even
    > the iPhone market share vs. Windows Mobile).
    >
    > "We use a unique methodology for collecting this data. We collect data from
    > the browsers of site visitors to our exclusive on-demand network of live
    > stats customers. The data is compiled from approximately 160 million
    > visitors per month. The information published is an aggregate of the data
    > from this network of hosted website statistics. The site unique visitor and
    > referral information is summarized on a monthly, weekly, daily and hourly
    > basis.
    >
    > "In addition, we classify 430+ referral sources identified as search
    > engines. Aggregate traffic referrals from these engines are summarized and
    > reported on. The statistics for search engines include both organic and
    > sponsored referrals. The websites in our population represent almost all
    > countries on earth.
    >
    > "The data is made available free of charge on a monthly basis that includes
    > monthly browser market share trends, top search engine referrals, screen
    > resolutions, top ISPs and operating systems trends. An upgraded version is
    > available that provides reports by geolocation, preview weekly data and
    > other features."
    >
    > http://marketshare.hitslink.com/default.aspx
    >
    > > All I see is a list
    > > claiming to be "market share" (although it ignores that my Opera has
    > > to pretend to be IE)....

    >
    > Clearly, you are dumb AND blind.
    >
    > http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0
    >
    > MSIE: 67.8%
    > Firefox 22.5%
    >
    > > and a survey that asks "Which is the best browser" with the result:

    >
    > > Firefox 63%
    > > Opera 14%
    > > Internet Explorer 12%
    > > Safari 11%

    >
    > Yeah, right. You're hopelessly lost.


    The survey shows that people far prefer Firefox, which is the opposite
    of the point I think you are trying to make.
    And the "unique methodology" doesn't explain how they can tell that a
    visitor is using IE rather than say Opera that is pretending to be IE.
    The reason is that they can't tell the difference. Therefore IE
    statistics from *anywhere* are false.
    I actually use four different browsers, using the advantages of each
    or to avoid the bugs of the others, especially the bugs of IE.
     
    Matty F, Aug 13, 2009
    #15
  16. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    impossible Guest

    Re: A Larry D'Loser double con

    "Matty F" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > I actually use four different browsers, using the advantages of each
    > or to avoid the bugs of the others, especially the bugs of IE.


    <sigh> If only you would learn to use one to get your facts straight.
     
    impossible, Aug 13, 2009
    #16
  17. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Re: A Larry D'Loser double con

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Donchano wrote:
    > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:16:49 -0700 (PDT), Matty F
    > <> shouted from the highest rooftop:
    >
    >> On Aug 12, 6:29 pm, Donchano <> wrote:
    >>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:05:57 -0700 (PDT), Matty F
    >>> <> shouted from the highest rooftop:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> How would anyone know what browser people are using?
    >>>
    >>> Simple. All I have to do is look at my web statistics to see exactly
    >>> what browser people are using to visit my websites. Last time I
    >>> looked a few minutes ago Firefox accounted for around 28%. and MSIE
    >>> just over 60%.
    >>>
    >>> The top 6 browsers were:
    >>>
    >>> 1. MSIE
    >>> 2. FIrefox
    >>> 3. Safari
    >>> 4. Netscape (compatible)
    >>> 5. Mozilla
    >>> 6. Opera

    >>
    >> You seem to have missed my point. I said "I have Opera configured to
    >> pretend that it's IE "
    >> Therefore your statistics are wrong. The IE statistics include all
    >> the other browsers that are pretending to be IE because of the
    >> moronic sites that test for other browsers an won''t allow them.
    >> e.g. Xtra/Yahoo mail.

    >
    > Yup. I missed your point. Not that it matters in the scheme of things
    > to me because my sites are compatible with all six, although - at the
    > moment - it's basically a two horse race between MSIE and
    > Firefox/Mozilla (with Safari coming up on the outside).
    >
    > BTW - there's also another listing for "Unknown browser" and those
    > come in at about 2%.


    Chrome?
    --
    Shaun.

    "Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
    warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.
     
    ~misfit~, Aug 14, 2009
    #17
  18. In message <h5svtb$uc4$>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > And while we're on Famous Last Words:
    > <http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/1129cd55159c9156>.


    But for all the years of development that went into this project, the
    actual differences between IE and Mozilla in terms of feature-sets are
    pretty small, at this point, don't you think? Kinda makes you wonder
    just how much innovation there is to squeeze out of this technology --
    no matter who's running the show. So while I agree that MS has reason to
    be concerned about its market share, I don't really see a new "browser
    war" shaping up. There's just not enough in it for anyone to get excited
    about. Both products -- Mozilla and IE -- will continue to be
    developed, of course. But IE will always enjoy an overwhelming edge in
    attractiveness, I think,simply on the basis of its tight integration
    with the Windows OS and a wide range of popular applications.

    How many things can you get wrong in one paragraph? :)
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Aug 14, 2009
    #18
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