did anyone try this: cheap point-n-shoot on the back of a large format beast?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by chibitul, Aug 4, 2004.

  1. chibitul

    chibitul Guest

    Did anyone try to use a large format camera to get an image (with all
    the advantages of large format cameras: tilt, shift, etc) and then use a
    small digicam instead of film to snap the picture? I imagine if you make
    some sort of fixture to attach the digicam to the back of the large
    format camera, and focus on the glass plate, you should be able to snap
    *that* image. I never used a large format camera and I do not intend to
    venture into this field unless I can do it digitally. I am not into high
    resolution stuff, I read some of Ansel Adams books and I am impressed
    with what you can do with large format when you can tilt/shift the lens
    and the negative as you want. Just wondering if I can "piggy-back" a
    cheap point-n-shoot on the back of a large format beast?
     
    chibitul, Aug 4, 2004
    #1
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  2. chibitul

    Sabineellen Guest

    >Just wondering if I can "piggy-back" a
    >cheap point-n-shoot on the back of a large format beast?
    >


    why? what for?
     
    Sabineellen, Aug 4, 2004
    #2
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  3. chibitul

    chibitul Guest

    In article <>,
    (Sabineellen) wrote:

    > >Just wondering if I can "piggy-back" a
    > >cheap point-n-shoot on the back of a large format beast?
    > >

    >
    > why? what for?


    do you have any idea what a large format camera can do??? you can move
    the lens and the focal plane independently, achieving effects never
    possible with a point-n-shoot (or even a dSLR).
     
    chibitul, Aug 4, 2004
    #3
  4. Re: did anyone try this: cheap point-n-shoot on the back of a largeformat beast?

    chibitul wrote:
    > Did anyone try to use a large format camera to get an image (with all
    > the advantages of large format cameras: tilt, shift, etc) and then use a
    > small digicam instead of film to snap the picture? I imagine if you make
    > some sort of fixture to attach the digicam to the back of the large
    > format camera, and focus on the glass plate, you should be able to snap
    > *that* image. I never used a large format camera and I do not intend to
    > venture into this field unless I can do it digitally. I am not into high
    > resolution stuff, I read some of Ansel Adams books and I am impressed
    > with what you can do with large format when you can tilt/shift the lens
    > and the negative as you want. Just wondering if I can "piggy-back" a
    > cheap point-n-shoot on the back of a large format beast?


    If you mean to use the point and shoot camera to photograph the image on
    the ground glass, it won't work. The image is much too dim to record
    with such a camera. Also, you couldn't focus close enough unless the
    camera had a macro mode, which most likely it wouldn't.
     
    Leonard Evens, Aug 4, 2004
    #4
  5. In article
    <>,
    chibitul <> wrote:

    > Did anyone try to use a large format camera to get an image (with all
    > the advantages of large format cameras: tilt, shift, etc) and then use a
    > small digicam instead of film to snap the picture? I imagine if you make
    > some sort of fixture to attach the digicam to the back of the large
    > format camera, and focus on the glass plate, you should be able to snap
    > *that* image. I never used a large format camera and I do not intend to
    > venture into this field unless I can do it digitally. I am not into high
    > resolution stuff, I read some of Ansel Adams books and I am impressed
    > with what you can do with large format when you can tilt/shift the lens
    > and the negative as you want. Just wondering if I can "piggy-back" a
    > cheap point-n-shoot on the back of a large format beast?


    Ah - Calumet sells a LF Digi cam adapter, its 3k,... welcome to LF work
    hah hah.
    --
    To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the
    measure of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the
    measure of skill. Sun Tzu
     
    Paul Atreides, Aug 4, 2004
    #5
  6. chibitul

    chibitul Guest

    In article <>,
    Leonard Evens <> wrote:

    > chibitul wrote:
    > > Did anyone try to use a large format camera to get an image (with all
    > > the advantages of large format cameras: tilt, shift, etc) and then use a
    > > small digicam instead of film to snap the picture? I imagine if you make
    > > some sort of fixture to attach the digicam to the back of the large
    > > format camera, and focus on the glass plate, you should be able to snap
    > > *that* image. I never used a large format camera and I do not intend to
    > > venture into this field unless I can do it digitally. I am not into high
    > > resolution stuff, I read some of Ansel Adams books and I am impressed
    > > with what you can do with large format when you can tilt/shift the lens
    > > and the negative as you want. Just wondering if I can "piggy-back" a
    > > cheap point-n-shoot on the back of a large format beast?

    >
    > If you mean to use the point and shoot camera to photograph the image on
    > the ground glass, it won't work. The image is much too dim to record
    > with such a camera. Also, you couldn't focus close enough unless the
    > camera had a macro mode, which most likely it wouldn't.
    >


    yes, that is what I mean. Most cameras have a macro mode, but you can
    also put the camera about 0.5 meters away from the ground glass.

    Ok, the image is dim, but this is large format camera here, not sports
    or action. we're talking landscapes, biuldings, etc, right? what's wrong
    with a slow shutter speed?

    And do you really need the ground glass? what if you *remove* the ground
    glass, the image will act as an object for the digicam. it should work.
     
    chibitul, Aug 4, 2004
    #6
  7. chibitul

    Mark M Guest

    "chibitul" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > (Sabineellen) wrote:
    >
    > > >Just wondering if I can "piggy-back" a
    > > >cheap point-n-shoot on the back of a large format beast?
    > > >

    > >
    > > why? what for?

    >
    > do you have any idea what a large format camera can do??? you can move
    > the lens and the focal plane independently, achieving effects never
    > possible with a point-n-shoot (or even a dSLR).


    Ever here of 35mm tilt/shift lenses?
    These work swimmingly on DSLRs.
     
    Mark M, Aug 4, 2004
    #7
  8. chibitul

    Mark M Guest

    "chibitul" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > yes, that is what I mean. Most cameras have a macro mode, but you can
    > also put the camera about 0.5 meters away from the ground glass.
    >
    > Ok, the image is dim, but this is large format camera here, not sports
    > or action. we're talking landscapes, biuldings, etc, right? what's wrong
    > with a slow shutter speed?
    >
    > And do you really need the ground glass? what if you *remove* the ground
    > glass, the image will act as an object for the digicam. it should work.


    How will the "image act as an object" without the glass?
     
    Mark M, Aug 4, 2004
    #8
  9. chibitul

    chibitul Guest

    In article <w0YPc.18258$Oi.10022@fed1read04>,
    "Mark M" <> wrote:

    > Ever here of 35mm tilt/shift lenses?
    > These work swimmingly on DSLRs.


    yes, but you have more flexibility with large format, i think?
     
    chibitul, Aug 4, 2004
    #9
  10. chibitul

    chibitul Guest

    In article <Q2YPc.18274$Oi.4714@fed1read04>,
    "Mark M" <> wrote:

    > "chibitul" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > > yes, that is what I mean. Most cameras have a macro mode, but you can
    > > also put the camera about 0.5 meters away from the ground glass.
    > >
    > > Ok, the image is dim, but this is large format camera here, not sports
    > > or action. we're talking landscapes, biuldings, etc, right? what's wrong
    > > with a slow shutter speed?
    > >
    > > And do you really need the ground glass? what if you *remove* the ground
    > > glass, the image will act as an object for the digicam. it should work.

    >
    > How will the "image act as an object" without the glass?


    optics 101.
     
    chibitul, Aug 4, 2004
    #10
  11. chibitul

    chibitul Guest

    In article <Q2YPc.18274$Oi.4714@fed1read04>,
    "Mark M" <> wrote:


    >
    > How will the "image act as an object" without the glass?


    just to clarify, the image is there regardless if you have the glass or
    not. The rays will keep propagating toward the digicam, and they
    "emerge" from the real image, no glass needed. as I said, optics.
     
    chibitul, Aug 4, 2004
    #11
  12. chibitul

    Skip M Guest

    "chibitul" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > (Sabineellen) wrote:
    >
    > > >Just wondering if I can "piggy-back" a
    > > >cheap point-n-shoot on the back of a large format beast?
    > > >

    > >
    > > why? what for?

    >
    > do you have any idea what a large format camera can do??? you can move
    > the lens and the focal plane independently, achieving effects never
    > possible with a point-n-shoot (or even a dSLR).


    You can get bellows lenses for Nikons, I believe, and tilt and shift lenses
    for Canon, that achieve much of what the bellows on a large format camera
    does. Can't use them on a P&S, of course, but you can use them on DSLR
    bodies. No AF, but at that point, who'd expect that?

    --
    Skip Middleton
    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
     
    Skip M, Aug 4, 2004
    #12
  13. chibitul

    PGG Guest

    On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 03:33:10 +0000, chibitul wrote:

    > In article <Q2YPc.18274$Oi.4714@fed1read04>,
    > "Mark M" <> wrote:
    >
    >> "chibitul" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >> > yes, that is what I mean. Most cameras have a macro mode, but you can
    >> > also put the camera about 0.5 meters away from the ground glass.
    >> >
    >> > Ok, the image is dim, but this is large format camera here, not sports
    >> > or action. we're talking landscapes, biuldings, etc, right? what's wrong
    >> > with a slow shutter speed?
    >> >
    >> > And do you really need the ground glass? what if you *remove* the ground
    >> > glass, the image will act as an object for the digicam. it should work.

    >>
    >> How will the "image act as an object" without the glass?

    >
    > optics 101


    Optics 101? The plastic lens on the P&S will mess up the focus. Even if
    you figured that out, the crop will be huge.

    They make digital scanning backs for large-format cameras. $20,000 I
    think.
     
    PGG, Aug 4, 2004
    #13
  14. chibitul

    Sabineellen Guest

    >> >
    >> > why? what for?

    >>
    >> do you have any idea what a large format camera can do??? you can move
    >> the lens and the focal plane independently, achieving effects never
    >> possible with a point-n-shoot (or even a dSLR).

    >


    I'm just at a loss as to why you would want to use a cheap P&S digicam
    piggybacked to a large format one. Why not just take a large format, or even
    medium format image and digitize it.
     
    Sabineellen, Aug 4, 2004
    #14
  15. chibitul

    Stacey Guest

    chibitul wrote:

    > In article <Q2YPc.18274$Oi.4714@fed1read04>,
    > "Mark M" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >> How will the "image act as an object" without the glass?

    >
    > just to clarify, the image is there regardless if you have the glass or
    > not. The rays will keep propagating toward the digicam, and they
    > "emerge" from the real image, no glass needed. as I said, optics.


    lol
    --

    Stacey
     
    Stacey, Aug 4, 2004
    #15
  16. chibitul

    Mark M Guest

    "chibitul" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <Q2YPc.18274$Oi.4714@fed1read04>,
    > "Mark M" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >
    > > How will the "image act as an object" without the glass?

    >
    > just to clarify, the image is there regardless if you have the glass or
    > not. The rays will keep propagating toward the digicam, and they
    > "emerge" from the real image, no glass needed. as I said, optics.


    Are you saying that you just stick the digicam in there...focus on the point
    where the glass WOULD HAVE BEEN...and voila...you'll get the full image????

    That doesn't work.
     
    Mark M, Aug 4, 2004
    #16
  17. chibitul

    Mark M Guest

    "chibitul" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <Q2YPc.18274$Oi.4714@fed1read04>,
    > "Mark M" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >
    > > How will the "image act as an object" without the glass?

    >
    > just to clarify, the image is there regardless if you have the glass or
    > not. The rays will keep propagating toward the digicam, and they
    > "emerge" from the real image, no glass needed. as I said, optics.


    Cameras collect lens-projected light, but they can't reach out and bend
    projected light at some imaginary plane and change it's direction so that it
    is bent toward a tiny sensor which is too small to collect the light as it
    is projected by the lens. Draw a picture to see why this doesn't work.

    The light must be bent toward the tiny confines of the sensor, or you'll get
    nothing but a tiny piece of the image...which would basically appear big
    blurry light.
     
    Mark M, Aug 4, 2004
    #17
  18. chibitul

    IRO Guest

    In article
    <>,
    chibitul <> wrote:

    > just to clarify, the image is there regardless if you have the glass or
    > not. The rays will keep propagating toward the digicam, and they
    > "emerge" from the real image, no glass needed. as I said, optics.


    The problem at this point is that the light rays from the big camera's
    lens are radiating outward in a cone, focused on the glass screen (or
    film). The P&S can only ever see a tiny fraction of that cone where-ever
    you put it, except perhaps very close in behind the camera lens where
    its tiny lens can intercept the complete cone. Unfortunately the image
    would be wildly out of focus there, plus it would negate all the
    features of the large format camera you are hoping to utilise.

    Try it out for yourself by making a simulated LF camera with a simple
    magnifying glass set in a hole in a cardboard box, with a sheet of lunch
    wrap on the opposite side representing the glass screen. Depending on
    the focal length of the magnifier and the size of the box, you should be
    able to see a focused image on the screen. Now remove the screen and
    place your eye (the P&S equivalent) in the cone of light. There's no
    position where your eye can see a coherent image, the physics of light
    simply don't allow it.

    Focusing the P&S on the ground glass screen would work, but it would be
    a grotty photo. The screen is only intended to give the photographer an
    idea of the composition, but it it full of zillions of tiny defects that
    aren't a problem normally.

    ------
    ~IRO
    My ambition in Life is to build something that will
    REALLY last....at least until I've finished building it.
     
    IRO, Aug 4, 2004
    #18
  19. chibitul

    jjs Guest

    "chibitul" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > yes, that is what I mean. Most cameras have a macro mode, but you can
    > also put the camera about 0.5 meters away from the ground glass.
    >
    > Ok, the image is dim, but [...]


    It's just plain crazy to think of photograhing the ground glass. Has the OP
    ever looked at a ground glass? And that's only one reason.
     
    jjs, Aug 4, 2004
    #19
  20. chibitul

    jjs Guest

    "chibitul" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > > How will the "image act as an object" without the glass?

    >
    > optics 101.


    You are, of course, imagining shooting the aerial image. Sweet dreams,
    chibitul.
     
    jjs, Aug 4, 2004
    #20
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