Dialup... the future of NZ Broadband

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by rjj, Sep 24, 2004.

  1. rjj

    rjj Guest

    After doing a few calculations around Telecom's Broadband (UBS) offerings
    I calculated the following...

    As you probably know Telecom have said that an *average* user cannot exceed
    10GB per month (and this includes both Inbound and Outbound traffic). So
    what does this mean the *average* user is allowed to download? I know that
    Inbound traffic accounts for around 64% of total traffic (36% is outbound)
    Outbound is quite high on DSL due to P2P/file-sharing etc.

    Assuming a calendar month is 30.41 days (365/12) the figure stack up as follows
    for an average of 10GB:

    6.4GB is Inbound traffic (6,554 MB)
    = 215MB per day
    = 2.55KBps (20.43kbps)

    Now, on dialup I can download at least double that figure and can stay connected
    24x7. So, what Telecom are essentially saying the future of Broadband in this
    country is - is a service where the *average* user downloads data at less than
    half the speed of a dialup connection - and if the *average* user exceeds this
    then ISP's get charged for every MB over the 10GB limit.

    How can ISP's compete in such an environment? I have no doubt that Xtra will
    launch very attractive pricing for their new plans (where a cap exists), so that
    other ISP's cannot compete in the 'capped plan' market and then by enforcing a 10GB
    limit, ISP's (such as Orcon and Slingshot) cannot compete in the 'flat-rate' plan
    market either otherwise they will be charged excessive penalties by Telecom.
    Which ever way you look at it the Telecom/Xtra combination cannot lose and the
    consumer suffers (again!) and ISP's haven't got a hope in hell in making a cent
    out of Broadband products and are left to scrap over the dialup market.

    But then we already knew all that anyway didn't we?
     
    rjj, Sep 24, 2004
    #1
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  2. In article <1096002091.480060@ftpsrv1> in nz.comp on Fri, 24 Sep 2004
    17:00:59 +1200, rjj <> says...
    > After doing a few calculations around Telecom's Broadband (UBS) offerings
    > I calculated the following...
    >
    > As you probably know Telecom have said that an *average* user cannot exceed
    > 10GB per month (and this includes both Inbound and Outbound traffic). So
    > what does this mean the *average* user is allowed to download? I know that
    > Inbound traffic accounts for around 64% of total traffic (36% is outbound)
    > Outbound is quite high on DSL due to P2P/file-sharing etc.
    >
    > Assuming a calendar month is 30.41 days (365/12) the figure stack up as follows
    > for an average of 10GB:
    >
    > 6.4GB is Inbound traffic (6,554 MB)
    > = 215MB per day
    > = 2.55KBps (20.43kbps)
    >
    > Now, on dialup I can download at least double that figure and can stay connected
    > 24x7.


    Which ISP allows you to stay connected 24x7?


    > So, what Telecom are essentially saying the future of Broadband in this
    > country is - is a service where the *average* user downloads data at less than
    > half the speed of a dialup connection - and if the *average* user exceeds this
    > then ISP's get charged for every MB over the 10GB limit.


    Bulldust.

    Your numbers assume they are online for 24 hours a day. In the real
    world, people are working at least 8 hours and sleeping at least 8 hours.
    The average person will be online less than 4 hours a day.

    > How can ISP's compete in such an environment? I have no doubt that Xtra will
    > launch very attractive pricing for their new plans (where a cap exists), so that
    > other ISP's cannot compete in the 'capped plan' market and then by enforcing a 10GB
    > limit, ISP's (such as Orcon and Slingshot) cannot compete in the 'flat-rate' plan
    > market either otherwise they will be charged excessive penalties by Telecom.
    > Which ever way you look at it the Telecom/Xtra combination cannot lose and the
    > consumer suffers (again!) and ISP's haven't got a hope in hell in making a cent
    > out of Broadband products and are left to scrap over the dialup market.
    >
    > But then we already knew all that anyway didn't we?


    Your claims are based on a false premise. Try working with some real
    world figures.
     
    Patrick Dunford, Sep 24, 2004
    #2
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  3. rjj

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    "Patrick Dunford" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <1096002091.480060@ftpsrv1> in nz.comp on Fri, 24 Sep 2004
    > 17:00:59 +1200, rjj <> says...
    >> After doing a few calculations around Telecom's Broadband (UBS) offerings
    >> I calculated the following...
    >>
    >> As you probably know Telecom have said that an *average* user cannot
    >> exceed
    >> 10GB per month (and this includes both Inbound and Outbound traffic). So
    >> what does this mean the *average* user is allowed to download? I know
    >> that
    >> Inbound traffic accounts for around 64% of total traffic (36% is
    >> outbound)
    >> Outbound is quite high on DSL due to P2P/file-sharing etc.
    >>
    >> Assuming a calendar month is 30.41 days (365/12) the figure stack up as
    >> follows
    >> for an average of 10GB:
    >>
    >> 6.4GB is Inbound traffic (6,554 MB)
    >> = 215MB per day
    >> = 2.55KBps (20.43kbps)
    >>
    >> Now, on dialup I can download at least double that figure and can stay
    >> connected
    >> 24x7.

    >
    > Which ISP allows you to stay connected 24x7?


    Ummm, lets see......... oh wait, I know this one...................... ummm,
    all of them????

    >
    >
    >> So, what Telecom are essentially saying the future of Broadband in this
    >> country is - is a service where the *average* user downloads data at less
    >> than
    >> half the speed of a dialup connection - and if the *average* user exceeds
    >> this
    >> then ISP's get charged for every MB over the 10GB limit.

    >
    > Bulldust.
    >

    Is that what you had for dinner tonight Dickford?

    > Your numbers assume they are online for 24 hours a day. In the real
    > world, people are working at least 8 hours and sleeping at least 8 hours.
    > The average person will be online less than 4 hours a day.


    The average person? Do you have any concept of what you think you are
    pretending to waffle on about?
    Some of us actually have an internet conection running 24/7 (and lol, the
    irony is - I just described an overwhelming majority of corporates in NZ).
    And before you start foaming at the mouth - an increasing amount of "home
    users" are connected 24/7.......oh, and guess what many of them are
    doing......<fill in the blanks here>

    >
    >> How can ISP's compete in such an environment? I have no doubt that Xtra
    >> will
    >> launch very attractive pricing for their new plans (where a cap exists),
    >> so that
    >> other ISP's cannot compete in the 'capped plan' market and then by
    >> enforcing a 10GB
    >> limit, ISP's (such as Orcon and Slingshot) cannot compete in the
    >> 'flat-rate' plan
    >> market either otherwise they will be charged excessive penalties by
    >> Telecom.
    >> Which ever way you look at it the Telecom/Xtra combination cannot lose
    >> and the
    >> consumer suffers (again!) and ISP's haven't got a hope in hell in making
    >> a cent
    >> out of Broadband products and are left to scrap over the dialup market.
    >>
    >> But then we already knew all that anyway didn't we?

    >
    > Your claims are based on a false premise. Try working with some real
    > world figures.



    Oh, real world figures? You mean actual reality? Oh, don't you just love it
    when someone preaches theory that is totally opposed to practice!
     
    Ryan Jacobs, Sep 24, 2004
    #3
  4. rjj wrote:
    > Assuming a calendar month is 30.41 days (365/12) the figure stack up as
    > follows
    > for an average of 10GB:
    >
    > 6.4GB is Inbound traffic (6,554 MB)
    > = 215MB per day


    all fine sofar.
    now, the average user spends 5 maybe 6 hours tops per day online.
    making it 215/6 35MBytes/hour, or 280Mbit/hour(8 bits per byte) giving
    ~4Mbit per sec.

    kinda kills your one.

    > = 2.55KBps (20.43kbps)
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 24, 2004
    #4
  5. rjj

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Ryan Jacobs wrote:
    > "Patrick Dunford" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> In article <1096002091.480060@ftpsrv1> in nz.comp on Fri, 24 Sep 2004
    >> 17:00:59 +1200, rjj <> says...
    >>> After doing a few calculations around Telecom's Broadband (UBS)
    >>> offerings I calculated the following...
    >>>
    >>> As you probably know Telecom have said that an *average* user cannot
    >>> exceed
    >>> 10GB per month (and this includes both Inbound and Outbound
    >>> traffic). So what does this mean the *average* user is allowed to
    >>> download? I know that
    >>> Inbound traffic accounts for around 64% of total traffic (36% is
    >>> outbound)
    >>> Outbound is quite high on DSL due to P2P/file-sharing etc.
    >>>
    >>> Assuming a calendar month is 30.41 days (365/12) the figure stack
    >>> up as follows
    >>> for an average of 10GB:
    >>>
    >>> 6.4GB is Inbound traffic (6,554 MB)
    >>> = 215MB per day
    >>> = 2.55KBps (20.43kbps)
    >>>
    >>> Now, on dialup I can download at least double that figure and can
    >>> stay connected
    >>> 24x7.

    >>
    >> Which ISP allows you to stay connected 24x7?

    >
    > Ummm, lets see......... oh wait, I know this
    > one...................... ummm, all of them????


    LOL.

    >>> So, what Telecom are essentially saying the future of Broadband in
    >>> this country is - is a service where the *average* user downloads
    >>> data at less than
    >>> half the speed of a dialup connection - and if the *average* user
    >>> exceeds this
    >>> then ISP's get charged for every MB over the 10GB limit.

    >>
    >> Bulldust.
    >>

    > Is that what you had for dinner tonight Dickford?
    >
    >> Your numbers assume they are online for 24 hours a day. In the real
    >> world, people are working at least 8 hours and sleeping at least 8
    >> hours. The average person will be online less than 4 hours a day.

    >
    > The average person? Do you have any concept of what you think you are
    > pretending to waffle on about?
    > Some of us actually have an internet conection running 24/7 (and lol,
    > the irony is - I just described an overwhelming majority of
    > corporates in NZ). And before you start foaming at the mouth - an
    > increasing amount of "home users" are connected 24/7.......oh, and
    > guess what many of them are doing......<fill in the blanks here>
    >
    >>
    >>> How can ISP's compete in such an environment? I have no doubt that
    >>> Xtra will
    >>> launch very attractive pricing for their new plans (where a cap
    >>> exists), so that
    >>> other ISP's cannot compete in the 'capped plan' market and then by
    >>> enforcing a 10GB
    >>> limit, ISP's (such as Orcon and Slingshot) cannot compete in the
    >>> 'flat-rate' plan
    >>> market either otherwise they will be charged excessive penalties by
    >>> Telecom.
    >>> Which ever way you look at it the Telecom/Xtra combination cannot
    >>> lose and the
    >>> consumer suffers (again!) and ISP's haven't got a hope in hell in
    >>> making a cent
    >>> out of Broadband products and are left to scrap over the dialup
    >>> market.
    >>>
    >>> But then we already knew all that anyway didn't we?

    >>
    >> Your claims are based on a false premise. Try working with some real
    >> world figures.

    >
    >
    > Oh, real world figures? You mean actual reality? Oh, don't you just
    > love it when someone preaches theory that is totally opposed to
    > practice!


    Here ya go, real world figures:

    DU Meter Daily Report
    Period (Date) Download Upload Both Directions Dial-Up Time
    1/09/2004 25.84 MB 2.85 MB 28.70 MB 23 hr 56 min
    2/09/2004 8.85 MB 1.38 MB 10.23 MB 23 hr 51 min
    3/09/2004 13.82 MB 1.62 MB 15.44 MB 22 hr 37 min
    4/09/2004 13.72 MB 3.77 MB 17.49 MB 23 hr 58 min
    5/09/2004 6.26 MB 3.20 MB 9.45 MB 23 hr 44 min
    6/09/2004 9.91 MB 4.84 MB 14.75 MB 23 hr 22 min
    7/09/2004 14.89 MB 5.59 MB 20.48 MB 23 hr 53 min
    8/09/2004 50.17 MB 3.19 MB 53.36 MB 23 hr 52 min
    9/09/2004 40.77 MB 2.88 MB 43.65 MB 23 hr 35 min
    10/09/2004 272.18 MB 9.54 MB 281.72 MB 23 hr 47 min
    11/09/2004 303.31 MB 10.31 MB 313.62 MB 23 hr 56 min
    12/09/2004 23.15 MB 2.31 MB 25.46 MB 23 hr 58 min
    13/09/2004 16.25 MB 1.88 MB 18.12 MB 23 hr 14 min
    14/09/2004 22.65 MB 2.34 MB 24.99 MB 23 hr 51 min
    15/09/2004 33.24 MB 2.77 MB 36.01 MB 23 hr 53 min
    16/09/2004 16.14 MB 2.36 MB 18.50 MB 23 hr 57 min
    17/09/2004 13.24 MB 1.54 MB 14.77 MB 23 hr 56 min
    18/09/2004 22.66 MB 2.54 MB 25.20 MB 23 hr 55 min
    19/09/2004 14.47 MB 1.57 MB 16.04 MB 23 hr 27 min
    20/09/2004 79.08 MB 3.51 MB 82.59 MB 23 hr 11 min
    21/09/2004 21.33 MB 2.30 MB 23.64 MB 23 hr 54 min
    22/09/2004 32.31 MB 14.83 MB 47.14 MB 23 hr 21 min
    23/09/2004 11.68 MB 106.22 MB 117.90 MB 19 hr 17 min
    24/09/2004 9.44 MB 1.60 MB 11.05 MB 23 hr 58 min
    25/09/2004 240.4 KB 14.1 KB 254.5 KB 18 min 19 sec

    Xtra dial-up. The only times it's disconnected is when the monitored alarm
    disconnects the PC or the missus gets a txt from her sister/mother/family
    and is asked to unplug the modem. I've got her pretty well trained to plug
    it straight back in when she's done but you can see, she forgot to plug it
    back in on the 23rd for a few hours. I left Kazaa running that night too.
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Sep 24, 2004
    #5
  6. It seems like Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:45:57 +1200 was when Patrick Dunford
    <> said Blah blah blah...

    >> Now, on dialup I can download at least double that figure and can stay connected
    >> 24x7.

    >
    >Which ISP allows you to stay connected 24x7?


    Quicksilver allows me to stay online for 24 hours at a time at least.
    I don't know about longer, normally after 24 hours I need to use the
    phone. So say 23x7 for QSI.
    --
    Regards,
    Waylon Kenning.

    1st Year B.I.T. WelTec
     
    Waylon Kenning, Sep 24, 2004
    #6
  7. In article <> in nz.comp on
    Sat, 25 Sep 2004 08:31:23 +1200, Waylon Kenning
    <> says...
    > It seems like Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:45:57 +1200 was when Patrick Dunford
    > <> said Blah blah blah...
    >
    > >> Now, on dialup I can download at least double that figure and can stay connected
    > >> 24x7.

    > >
    > >Which ISP allows you to stay connected 24x7?

    >
    > Quicksilver allows me to stay online for 24 hours at a time at least.
    > I don't know about longer, normally after 24 hours I need to use the
    > phone. So say 23x7 for QSI.


    In most ISPs T&C there is a clause about allowing disconnections of long
    connections at peak usage times, or words to that effect.
     
    Patrick Dunford, Sep 24, 2004
    #7
  8. It seems like Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:41:20 +1200 was when Patrick Dunford
    <> said Blah blah blah...

    >> Quicksilver allows me to stay online for 24 hours at a time at least.
    >> I don't know about longer, normally after 24 hours I need to use the
    >> phone. So say 23x7 for QSI.

    >
    >In most ISPs T&C there is a clause about allowing disconnections of long
    >connections at peak usage times, or words to that effect.


    Well yeah, but to reconnect is a simple tickbox away.
    --
    Regards,
    Waylon Kenning.

    1st Year B.I.T. WelTec
     
    Waylon Kenning, Sep 24, 2004
    #8
  9. rjj

    Malcolm Guest

    Patrick Dunford wrote:

    > In article <> in nz.comp on
    > Sat, 25 Sep 2004 08:31:23 +1200, Waylon Kenning
    > <> says...
    >
    >>It seems like Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:45:57 +1200 was when Patrick Dunford
    >><> said Blah blah blah...
    >>
    >>
    >>>>Now, on dialup I can download at least double that figure and can stay connected
    >>>>24x7.
    >>>
    >>>Which ISP allows you to stay connected 24x7?

    >>
    >>Quicksilver allows me to stay online for 24 hours at a time at least.
    >>I don't know about longer, normally after 24 hours I need to use the
    >>phone. So say 23x7 for QSI.

    >
    >
    > In most ISPs T&C there is a clause about allowing disconnections of long
    > connections at peak usage times, or words to that effect.
    >

    True, but when I was on IHUG dialup I was always connected 24x7, every
    now and again it would get disconnected, maybe 2 or 3 times a month and
    the firewall/router was set to dialup when the connection was dropped.

    --
    Cheers
    Malcolm °¿°
     
    Malcolm, Sep 24, 2004
    #9
  10. In article <>,
    Patrick Dunford <> wrote:

    >In most ISPs T&C there is a clause about allowing disconnections of long
    >connections at peak usage times, or words to that effect.


    When I was on dialup at Wave, I had a Premium account which included no
    such provisos. And indeed I did frequently stay connected for over 24
    hours at a time when doing big downloads or big jobs on client machines,
    that kind of thing.
     
    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro, Sep 25, 2004
    #10
  11. Lawrence D¹Oliveiro wrote:
    >>In most ISPs T&C there is a clause about allowing disconnections of long
    >>connections at peak usage times, or words to that effect.


    > When I was on dialup at Wave, I had a Premium account which included no
    > such provisos. And indeed I did frequently stay connected for over 24
    > hours at a time when doing big downloads or big jobs on client machines,
    > that kind of thing.


    Even Xtra used to not disconnect you until ~2001 when they began kicking
    people off after 23:59:57 according to the accounts I kept from the time.

    Although they wouldn't confirm this, and said that it was Telecom doing
    it, not them. even though it worked on other ISP's.
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 25, 2004
    #11
  12. rjj

    rjj Guest

    I think you have missed the point I was trying to make. As the subject
    says - the new UBS plans/restrictions are how Telecom see the *future* of
    NZ broadband (at least for the next 'x' years). If you honestly believe
    the future of broadband is surfing the occasional web site and checking
    your email then that's fine. Personally, I see opportunities for online
    gaming, video on demand, audio streaming, VoIP etc. Also, let's say Debian
    release their new Linux distro next month and I want to download the CD set,
    well there is 5GB+ in ISO images. Sure, at 256kbps a lot of this is not
    really feasible (but that's another gripe I have with UBS and for another
    thread), the point is that not only do ISP's get lumped with a max 256k
    offering, but they also get told that they cannot run the average connection
    at half the speed of a dialup connection without being penalised...

    Look around at the rest of the civilised western world. How many countries
    are in the same position as NZ??? I'm sick of people in this country making
    excuses about the population size etc. and that this is the reason that NZ must
    have the crappest broadband plans in the western world. Everybody knows that
    Telecom have plenty of capacity in the NGN and do not need to enforce such
    ridiculous restrictions on their UBS offerings (no static IP's!!! What the hell
    is that all about???) The fact of the matter is that Telecom have been gifted
    a network largely funded and built by the tax payer and have a monopoly position
    in the market place that allows them to do whatever the hell they want. They can
    charge what they want, delay UBS by 6 months and change the rules whenever they
    please.

    Patrick and yourself sound like Microsoft back in the 80's (and even 90's) - I mean
    who would need more than 640k of memory?? Who would need a 1GB hard drive - what on
    earth would you store with that much space!? Well, 6 or even 10GB of network traffic
    per month might sound a lot to you now, but in even a couple of years time you will
    look back and laugh at such a statement. So, while friends of mine in London are
    already doing video on demand and VoIP (instead of nipping out to the local Blockbuster)
    we are left in NZ with a monopolising Telco who leave customers scared to download an
    ISO image or stream radio all day or spend too long gaming or even (god forbid) download
    something over BitTorrent or a P2P network in fear of going over their caps...


    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > rjj wrote:
    >
    >> Assuming a calendar month is 30.41 days (365/12) the figure stack up
    >> as follows
    >> for an average of 10GB:
    >>
    >> 6.4GB is Inbound traffic (6,554 MB)
    >> = 215MB per day

    >
    >
    > all fine sofar.
    > now, the average user spends 5 maybe 6 hours tops per day online.
    > making it 215/6 35MBytes/hour, or 280Mbit/hour(8 bits per byte) giving
    > ~4Mbit per sec.
    >
    > kinda kills your one.
    >
    > > = 2.55KBps (20.43kbps)

    >
     
    rjj, Sep 27, 2004
    #12
  13. rjj wrote:
    > I think you have missed the point I was trying to make.


    nah I got your point, I just thought you had stretched it a little too
    far, and so pushed it back the other way.

    > As the subject
    > says - the new UBS plans/restrictions are how Telecom see the *future* of
    > NZ broadband (at least for the next 'x' years). If you honestly believe
    > the future of broadband is surfing the occasional web site and checking
    > your email then that's fine. Personally, I see opportunities for online
    > gaming, video on demand, audio streaming, VoIP etc. Also, let's say Debian
    > release their new Linux distro next month and I want to download the CD
    > set,
    > well there is 5GB+ in ISO images. Sure, at 256kbps a lot of this is not
    > really feasible (but that's another gripe I have with UBS and for another
    > thread), the point is that not only do ISP's get lumped with a max 256k
    > offering, but they also get told that they cannot run the average
    > connection
    > at half the speed of a dialup connection without being penalised...


    /me puts my arm around you and hugs you better.

    if you dont like it, quit bitching about it and do something about it.

    > Look around at the rest of the civilised western world. How many countries
    > are in the same position as NZ??? I'm sick of people in this country
    > making
    > excuses about the population size etc. and that this is the reason that
    > NZ must
    > have the crappest broadband plans in the western world. Everybody knows
    > that
    > Telecom have plenty of capacity in the NGN and do not need to enforce such
    > ridiculous restrictions on their UBS offerings (no static IP's!!! What
    > the hell
    > is that all about???) The fact of the matter is that Telecom have been
    > gifted
    > a network largely funded and built by the tax payer and have a monopoly
    > position
    > in the market place that allows them to do whatever the hell they want.
    > They can
    > charge what they want, delay UBS by 6 months and change the rules
    > whenever they
    > please.


    The no static IPs is to protect their other products... not nice, but
    hey, I'd do the same if I was running the company.

    > Patrick and yourself sound like Microsoft back in the 80's (and even
    > 90's) - I mean
    > who would need more than 640k of memory?? Who would need a 1GB hard
    > drive - what on
    > earth would you store with that much space!? Well, 6 or even 10GB of
    > network traffic
    > per month might sound a lot to you now, but in even a couple of years
    > time you will
    > look back and laugh at such a statement.


    heh, I want unlimited, and I have it at home.
    I pay ~$90 for 256kb-1Mb.
    I couldn't get the connection I wanted so joined in with a group of like
    minded individuals and we are working on fixing it(at least in our area).

    > So, while friends of mine in
    > London are
    > already doing video on demand and VoIP (instead of nipping out to the
    > local Blockbuster)
    > we are left in NZ with a monopolising Telco who leave customers scared
    > to download an
    > ISO image or stream radio all day or spend too long gaming or even (god
    > forbid) download
    > something over BitTorrent or a P2P network in fear of going over their
    > caps...


    if you dont like it, do something about it.

    --
    Dave Hall
    http://www.dave.net.nz
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 27, 2004
    #13
  14. In article <1096240015.89034@ftpsrv1> in nz.comp on Mon, 27 Sep 2004
    11:06:25 +1200, rjj <> says...
    > I think you have missed the point I was trying to make. As the subject
    > says - the new UBS plans/restrictions are how Telecom see the *future* of
    > NZ broadband (at least for the next 'x' years). If you honestly believe
    > the future of broadband is surfing the occasional web site and checking
    > your email then that's fine. Personally, I see opportunities for online
    > gaming, video on demand, audio streaming, VoIP etc. Also, let's say Debian
    > release their new Linux distro next month and I want to download the CD set,
    > well there is 5GB+ in ISO images. Sure, at 256kbps a lot of this is not
    > really feasible (but that's another gripe I have with UBS and for another
    > thread), the point is that not only do ISP's get lumped with a max 256k
    > offering, but they also get told that they cannot run the average connection
    > at half the speed of a dialup connection without being penalised...


    You're still talking CRAP.

    Who has their computer dialled up to the Internet 24x7? No-one I know. I
    can buy a set of Debian CDs for peanuts. Much less than the bother of
    having my computer downloading for days on end.
     
    Patrick Dunford, Sep 27, 2004
    #14
  15. rjj

    Herb Garden Guest

    rjj wrote:
    > I think you have missed the point I was trying to make. As the
    > subject
    > says - the new UBS plans/restrictions are how Telecom see the
    > *future* of
    > NZ broadband (at least for the next 'x' years). If you honestly
    > believe
    > the future of broadband is surfing the occasional web site and
    > checking
    > your email then that's fine. Personally, I see opportunities for
    > online
    > gaming, video on demand, audio streaming, VoIP etc. Also, let's say
    > Debian
    > release their new Linux distro next month and I want to download the
    > CD set,
    > well there is 5GB+ in ISO images. Sure, at 256kbps a lot of this is
    > not
    > really feasible (but that's another gripe I have with UBS and for
    > another
    > thread), the point is that not only do ISP's get lumped with a max
    > 256k
    > offering, but they also get told that they cannot run the average
    > connection
    > at half the speed of a dialup connection without being penalised...


    I've got broadband mainly so I don't download full iso sets of debian cds
    You just select the application that you want installed in synaptics and it
    installs off the local Debian mirror.
    Why download apps you aren't using ?



    >
    > Look around at the rest of the civilised western world. How many
    > countries
    > are in the same position as NZ??? I'm sick of people in this country
    > making
    > excuses about the population size etc. and that this is the reason
    > that NZ must
    > have the crappest broadband plans in the western world. Everybody
    > knows that
    > Telecom have plenty of capacity in the NGN and do not need to enforce
    > such
    > ridiculous restrictions on their UBS offerings (no static IP's!!!
    > What the hell
    > is that all about???) The fact of the matter is that Telecom have
    > been gifted
    > a network largely funded and built by the tax payer and have a
    > monopoly position
    > in the market place that allows them to do whatever the hell they
    > want. They can charge what they want, delay UBS by 6 months and
    > change the rules whenever they
    > please.


    The services they can offer on the existing copper are limited in speed and
    quality by the subscriber exchange distances of our low housing density.
    New investment in roadside cabinet mini dslams will be required for many
    areas served by fiber.
    Wimax will overtake adsl as the most economical method of internetworking
    this country before Telecom get their copper network sorted.
     
    Herb Garden, Sep 27, 2004
    #15
  16. rjj

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Patrick Dunford wrote:
    > In article <1096240015.89034@ftpsrv1> in nz.comp on Mon, 27 Sep 2004
    > 11:06:25 +1200, rjj <> says...
    >> I think you have missed the point I was trying to make. As the
    >> subject says - the new UBS plans/restrictions are how Telecom see
    >> the *future* of NZ broadband (at least for the next 'x' years). If
    >> you honestly believe the future of broadband is surfing the
    >> occasional web site and checking your email then that's fine.
    >> Personally, I see opportunities for online gaming, video on demand,
    >> audio streaming, VoIP etc. Also, let's say Debian release their new
    >> Linux distro next month and I want to download the CD set, well
    >> there is 5GB+ in ISO images. Sure, at 256kbps a lot of this is not
    >> really feasible (but that's another gripe I have with UBS and for
    >> another thread), the point is that not only do ISP's get lumped with
    >> a max 256k offering, but they also get told that they cannot run the
    >> average connection at half the speed of a dialup connection without
    >> being penalised...

    >
    > You're still talking CRAP.


    The 'woger virus' has attacked Paddy. Please make sure your quarantine
    procedures are up-to-date. In this case it's not *that* tragic but it could
    prove a disaster if it got hold of a functional mind.

    > Who has their computer dialled up to the Internet 24x7? No-one I
    > know.


    That's cause they're all leaving their phones free waiting for God to ring
    (and we all know he won't ring a cell). *Most* people I know on dial-up
    leave their computer connected 24/7 and if someone wants to talk to them on
    a land-line then they text them and ask them to disconnect. That's how it
    works in the real world Paddy

    > I can buy a set of Debian CDs for peanuts.


    LOL, goes to prove my theory that a lot of monkeys use linux.

    > Much less than the
    > bother of having my computer downloading for days on end.


    Yeah, it would slow down your nightly p0rn sessions as well.
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Sep 27, 2004
    #16
  17. rjj

    SNOman Guest

    rjj wrote:
    > I think you have missed the point I was trying to make. As the subject
    > says - the new UBS plans/restrictions are how Telecom see the *future* of
    > NZ broadband


    Whoa, since when did 256K qualify as broadband ;-)

    The thing is that using this scenario Telescum will pull the wool over
    the Telecommunications Commissioner's eyes AGAIN! by saying that they
    have met the target of having 'x' broadband users signed up by 'y'. It
    sucks.

    Anybody using IHUG's wireless? just interested to know as I can probably
    get this where I am but can't do ADSL (bloody fibre).
     
    SNOman, Sep 27, 2004
    #17
  18. rjj

    Herb Garden Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Patrick Dunford wrote:
    >> In article <1096240015.89034@ftpsrv1> in nz.comp on Mon, 27 Sep 2004
    >> 11:06:25 +1200, rjj <> says...
    >>> I think you have missed the point I was trying to make. As the
    >>> subject says - the new UBS plans/restrictions are how Telecom see
    >>> the *future* of NZ broadband (at least for the next 'x' years). If
    >>> you honestly believe the future of broadband is surfing the
    >>> occasional web site and checking your email then that's fine.
    >>> Personally, I see opportunities for online gaming, video on demand,
    >>> audio streaming, VoIP etc. Also, let's say Debian release their new
    >>> Linux distro next month and I want to download the CD set, well
    >>> there is 5GB+ in ISO images. Sure, at 256kbps a lot of this is not
    >>> really feasible (but that's another gripe I have with UBS and for
    >>> another thread), the point is that not only do ISP's get lumped with
    >>> a max 256k offering, but they also get told that they cannot run the
    >>> average connection at half the speed of a dialup connection without
    >>> being penalised...

    >>
    >> You're still talking CRAP.

    >
    > The 'woger virus' has attacked Paddy. Please make sure your quarantine
    > procedures are up-to-date. In this case it's not *that* tragic but it
    > could prove a disaster if it got hold of a functional mind.
    >
    >> Who has their computer dialled up to the Internet 24x7? No-one I
    >> know.

    >
    > That's cause they're all leaving their phones free waiting for God to
    > ring (and we all know he won't ring a cell). *Most* people I know on
    > dial-up leave their computer connected 24/7 and if someone wants to
    > talk to them on a land-line then they text them and ask them to
    > disconnect. That's how it works in the real world Paddy
    >
    >> I can buy a set of Debian CDs for peanuts.

    >
    > LOL, goes to prove my theory that a lot of monkeys use linux.
    >


    What is it with all these peeps that want to have all of Debian ?
    Its better kept on their servers and installed on demand.
    You only need a 50MB net install disk, or if you must everything you need
    for an X11 desktop is on debian disk one
    Thats what broadband is for, a proper wide area network, not a fat version
    of dialup for transmitting disk images.
     
    Herb Garden, Sep 27, 2004
    #18
  19. SNOman wrote:
    > Anybody using IHUG's wireless?


    no, but there is a clueless review of it in this months netguide.

    "pings are twice as fast"
    they mention how the connection stayed up for 7 days, and then show a
    pic of the connection from the machine to the hub/router... truly odd.

    --
    Dave Hall
    http://www.dave.net.nz
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 27, 2004
    #19
  20. > ~misfit~ wrote:
    > > Patrick Dunford wrote:


    > >> Who has their computer dialled up to the Internet 24x7? No-one I
    > >> know.

    > >
    > > That's cause they're all leaving their phones free waiting for God to
    > > ring (and we all know he won't ring a cell).


    No, it's because they use their phones to TALK to people. You know, the
    reason the phone was invented in the first place.

    > > *Most* people I know on
    > > dial-up leave their computer connected 24/7 and if someone wants to
    > > talk to them on a land-line then they text them and ask them to
    > > disconnect. That's how it works in the real world Paddy


    That's computing for hackers, geeks and gamers. People that have no real
    life outside of computers.

    Who wants to be cooped up inside all day, tied to a computer keyboard?

    > >> I can buy a set of Debian CDs for peanuts.

    > >
    > > LOL, goes to prove my theory that a lot of monkeys use linux.
    > >

    >
    > What is it with all these peeps that want to have all of Debian ?
    > Its better kept on their servers and installed on demand.
    > You only need a 50MB net install disk, or if you must everything you need
    > for an X11 desktop is on debian disk one
    > Thats what broadband is for, a proper wide area network, not a fat version
    > of dialup for transmitting disk images.


    Comes in handy having the seven CDs for machines that don't have a
    broadband connection.
     
    Patrick Dunford, Sep 27, 2004
    #20
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