Dell's road to Linux

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by DP, Apr 10, 2007.

  1. DP

    DP Guest

    http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198800645

    Article says most of Dell's customers wanting Linux machines will be
    "techies."
    That, to me, then raises the question: How many hard-core techies are going
    to want a Dell?

    I could be way wrong, but I think Dell will find out this was a disastrous
    move. This is not a knock against Linux. It's just that I think that a
    company that has made its fortune by trying to be a mass-market computer
    maker is not going to generate a lot of income from machines using an
    operating system that for now is a niche market.
     
    DP, Apr 10, 2007
    #1
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  2. DP

    Alias Guest

    DP wrote:
    > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198800645
    >
    > Article says most of Dell's customers wanting Linux machines will be
    > "techies."
    > That, to me, then raises the question: How many hard-core techies are
    > going to want a Dell?
    >
    > I could be way wrong, but I think Dell will find out this was a
    > disastrous move. This is not a knock against Linux. It's just that I
    > think that a company that has made its fortune by trying to be a
    > mass-market computer maker is not going to generate a lot of income from
    > machines using an operating system that for now is a niche market.
    >


    Two things:

    1. Linux is much more user friendly that it used to be.

    2. Dell is probably thinking this is a good opportunity to make some
    money through support rather than the small profit they make from
    selling hardware.

    Alias
     
    Alias, Apr 10, 2007
    #2
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  3. DP

    kirk jim Guest

    This move came from an online survey dell made...

    many people asked for this. They did not just come out of the blue with this
    idea....
    I suspect however many people will be getting these, formating and
    installing windows eventually.


    "DP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198800645
    >
    > Article says most of Dell's customers wanting Linux machines will be
    > "techies."
    > That, to me, then raises the question: How many hard-core techies are
    > going to want a Dell?
    >
    > I could be way wrong, but I think Dell will find out this was a disastrous
    > move. This is not a knock against Linux. It's just that I think that a
    > company that has made its fortune by trying to be a mass-market computer
    > maker is not going to generate a lot of income from machines using an
    > operating system that for now is a niche market.
    >
     
    kirk jim, Apr 10, 2007
    #3
  4. DP

    Tom Scales Guest

    "DP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198800645
    >
    > Article says most of Dell's customers wanting Linux machines will be
    > "techies."
    > That, to me, then raises the question: How many hard-core techies are
    > going to want a Dell?
    >
    > I could be way wrong, but I think Dell will find out this was a disastrous
    > move. This is not a knock against Linux. It's just that I think that a
    > company that has made its fortune by trying to be a mass-market computer
    > maker is not going to generate a lot of income from machines using an
    > operating system that for now is a niche market.
    >


    How could it be disastrous? The startup costs are small and if they are
    never ordered they are never built.
     
    Tom Scales, Apr 10, 2007
    #4
  5. DP

    DP Guest

    "kirk jim" <11@11.11> wrote in message
    news:...
    > This move came from an online survey dell made...
    >
    > many people asked for this. They did not just come out of the blue with
    > this idea....


    Right. But how accurate is that kind of survey? All you need is a bunch of
    Linux advocates flocking to the site to answer the survey. Not very
    scientific.
    Any online survey can be gamed if you have enough interested people who are
    urged to go there and answer.
    And a lot of surveys that only allow you to vote once can be defeated if
    you: 1) Vote from several different machines and/or 2) Clear the browser
    cookies so the site can't tell you voted once already. Sounds like a system
    only a techie or would-be techie would know how to defeat.
    I hardly think an online survey is a true picture of market opinion.
     
    DP, Apr 10, 2007
    #5
  6. DP

    kirk jim Guest

    I don't know.. I suspect that dell is not stupid....

    they must have seen some significant amount of feedback from the survey..
    and said..
    lets give it a go...they don't have much to lose anyway....

    They may have sniffed some problems with the future of MS (as I cough cough,
    have predicted).
    And want to have other avenues of expansion if ever that is needed.

    You might also want to read my other post today about the "conspiracy
    theory"...
    that explains the MS-hardware alliance.



    "DP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "kirk jim" <11@11.11> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> This move came from an online survey dell made...
    >>
    >> many people asked for this. They did not just come out of the blue with
    >> this idea....

    >
    > Right. But how accurate is that kind of survey? All you need is a bunch of
    > Linux advocates flocking to the site to answer the survey. Not very
    > scientific.
    > Any online survey can be gamed if you have enough interested people who
    > are urged to go there and answer.
    > And a lot of surveys that only allow you to vote once can be defeated if
    > you: 1) Vote from several different machines and/or 2) Clear the browser
    > cookies so the site can't tell you voted once already. Sounds like a
    > system only a techie or would-be techie would know how to defeat.
    > I hardly think an online survey is a true picture of market opinion.
    >
     
    kirk jim, Apr 10, 2007
    #6
  7. DP

    Stephan Rose Guest

    Tom Scales wrote:

    >
    > "DP" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198800645
    >>
    >> Article says most of Dell's customers wanting Linux machines will be
    >> "techies."
    >> That, to me, then raises the question: How many hard-core techies are
    >> going to want a Dell?
    >>
    >> I could be way wrong, but I think Dell will find out this was a
    >> disastrous move. This is not a knock against Linux. It's just that I
    >> think that a company that has made its fortune by trying to be a
    >> mass-market computer maker is not going to generate a lot of income from
    >> machines using an operating system that for now is a niche market.
    >>

    >
    > How could it be disastrous? The startup costs are small and if they are
    > never ordered they are never built.


    Precisely. They don't need to support every distribution. Only the
    distributions they choose to sell with their systems. That makes tech
    support relatively easily. Just a new set of scripts to read by the monkey
    on the phone...

    As far as the hardware goes, get a few people to put a few test systems
    together to test the various supported hardware and available
    configurations...and then throw those options on the website.

    No risk anywhere there...

    --
    Stephan
    2003 Yamaha R6

    å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
    å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
     
    Stephan Rose, Apr 10, 2007
    #7
  8. DP

    ray Guest

    On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 05:16:37 -0500, DP wrote:

    > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198800645
    >
    > Article says most of Dell's customers wanting Linux machines will be
    > "techies."
    > That, to me, then raises the question: How many hard-core techies are going
    > to want a Dell?
    >
    > I could be way wrong, but I think Dell will find out this was a disastrous
    > move. This is not a knock against Linux. It's just that I think that a
    > company that has made its fortune by trying to be a mass-market computer
    > maker is not going to generate a lot of income from machines using an
    > operating system that for now is a niche market.


    What move? So far they have not done a damned thing. They've offered Linux
    on "select models" for years. IMHO customers should have the freedom of
    choice.
     
    ray, Apr 10, 2007
    #8
  9. DP

    Dale White Guest

    I think it's awesome and I personally hope that every PC vendor starts
    offering Linux. Who cares how many they sale, it gives consumers a choice.
    Hopefully, no one will buy Linux by accident. I'd love to see Linux\Mac take
    over about 30-40% of the desktop space. I'm not a Microsoft hater, but
    Microsoft is in need of serious competition to wake them up from their
    slumber. Intel needed AMD, nVidia needs ATI. Microsoft needs something as
    well.

    Plus Dell isn't doing so good right now, so why not show they are still
    young and hip. There are junior techie's that aren't quite there yet, but
    want to kick Microsoft to the curb (cause that's the in thing these days).
    It makes it a little easier when you can buy a box with Linux already
    installed and tested and all one has to do is go ! Hopefully, they won't get
    all the extra un-needed crap loaded under Linux that they do un Windows.

    I don't see this has a big money maker at first, it's an investment that may
    or may not pay out. If it does catch on, they'll be ahead of the other
    vendors. If it doesn't, it will be just another R&D style writeoff





    "DP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198800645
    >
    > Article says most of Dell's customers wanting Linux machines will be
    > "techies."
    > That, to me, then raises the question: How many hard-core techies are
    > going to want a Dell?
    >
    > I could be way wrong, but I think Dell will find out this was a disastrous
    > move. This is not a knock against Linux. It's just that I think that a
    > company that has made its fortune by trying to be a mass-market computer
    > maker is not going to generate a lot of income from machines using an
    > operating system that for now is a niche market.
    >
     
    Dale White, Apr 10, 2007
    #9
  10. > Who cares how many they sale

    a) You buy a Dell system preloaded with Linux
    b) Six months later Dell realizes the return on their initial investment
    isn't as good as hoped
    c) Dell decides to stop supporting Linux

    May you won't admit it, but in the big picture, I'm pretty sure you *do*
    care how many they sell.
     
    Homer J. Simpson, Apr 10, 2007
    #10
  11. I really don't think that anyone would benefit from buying any kind of a
    pre-installed anything. Particularly Linux. Isn't it a vital part of running
    any OS, that you are familiar with the most basic of basics when you start?
    O.K. so we all have to start somewhere but nobody is going anywhere with a
    pre-installed Linux! It looks good and sounds nice in the add's, but it's a
    stumbling block for a newbie - and a nuisance for the more advanced!

    The sales people love to market a computer as if it were a fridge - 'plug it
    in, and in 15 minutes you'll have cold beer! But in reality, you cannot run
    it for two days without being educated, and that's not even any start. The
    education never stops!!!

    Moreover, I wouldn't trust anyone who offers 512MB machines as having twice
    the RAM, as DELL has been doing for more than a year now!

    (Finito!)

    Tony. . .


    "Dale White" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I think it's awesome and I personally hope that every PC vendor starts
    > offering Linux. Who cares how many they sale, it gives consumers a choice.
    > Hopefully, no one will buy Linux by accident. I'd love to see Linux\Mac

    take
    > over about 30-40% of the desktop space. I'm not a Microsoft hater, but
    > Microsoft is in need of serious competition to wake them up from their
    > slumber. Intel needed AMD, nVidia needs ATI. Microsoft needs something as
    > well.
    >
    > Plus Dell isn't doing so good right now, so why not show they are still
    > young and hip. There are junior techie's that aren't quite there yet, but
    > want to kick Microsoft to the curb (cause that's the in thing these days).
    > It makes it a little easier when you can buy a box with Linux already
    > installed and tested and all one has to do is go ! Hopefully, they won't

    get
    > all the extra un-needed crap loaded under Linux that they do un Windows.
    >
    > I don't see this has a big money maker at first, it's an investment that

    may
    > or may not pay out. If it does catch on, they'll be ahead of the other
    > vendors. If it doesn't, it will be just another R&D style writeoff
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "DP" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >

    http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198800645
    > >
    > > Article says most of Dell's customers wanting Linux machines will be
    > > "techies."
    > > That, to me, then raises the question: How many hard-core techies are
    > > going to want a Dell?
    > >
    > > I could be way wrong, but I think Dell will find out this was a

    disastrous
    > > move. This is not a knock against Linux. It's just that I think that a
    > > company that has made its fortune by trying to be a mass-market computer
    > > maker is not going to generate a lot of income from machines using an
    > > operating system that for now is a niche market.
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Tony Sperling, Apr 11, 2007
    #11
  12. Ok, in that regards I do care. Though maybe I'm all wet, they normally don't
    drop support for at least a year or so.


    "Homer J. Simpson" <root@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    news:ets%...
    >> Who cares how many they sale

    >
    > a) You buy a Dell system preloaded with Linux
    > b) Six months later Dell realizes the return on their initial investment
    > isn't as good as hoped
    > c) Dell decides to stop supporting Linux
    >
    > May you won't admit it, but in the big picture, I'm pretty sure you *do*
    > care how many they sell.
    >
    >
     
    Dale M. White, Apr 11, 2007
    #12
  13. DP

    Alias Guest

    Homer J. Simpson wrote:
    >> Who cares how many they sale

    >
    > a) You buy a Dell system preloaded with Linux


    Bad idea.

    > b) Six months later Dell realizes the return on their initial investment
    > isn't as good as hoped


    Methinks Dell has realized that hardware doesn't make the kind of money
    that support and repair does.

    > c) Dell decides to stop supporting Linux


    See above.

    >
    > May you won't admit it, but in the big picture, I'm pretty sure you *do*
    > care how many they sell.


    The more the merrier, be it Dell or the shop down the street.

    Alias
     
    Alias, Apr 11, 2007
    #13
  14. DP

    DP Guest

    "ray" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 05:16:37 -0500, DP wrote:
    >
    > What move? So far they have not done a damned thing. They've offered Linux
    > on "select models" for years. IMHO customers should have the freedom of
    > choice.



    Obviously they're doing something different. The company is saying so
    itself. I didn't make it up:
    "The computer maker will offer the open source operating system in desktops
    and notebooks following strong customer demand for the machines on the
    company's online sounding board, IdeaStorm.
    "Dell has a lot of details to finalize, including when it will start
    offering Linux consumer PCs, which versions of Linux it will ship, and how
    much support it will offer.
    "But Matt Domsch, Linux software architect for Dell, says the company is
    working on the details, including asking suppliers if they can provide open
    source drivers if one doesn't exist. "It's not a relationship challenge,
    it's a 'How quickly can we do it?' challenge," Domsch says. Dell has
    announced it's committed to using open source drivers where possible but
    will use proprietary ones if they work better or open source versions don't
    exist."

    As for freedom of choice, I agree. I just don't think Dell will find this
    very profitable and will eventually abandon those who want Linux. Just my
    opinion. Time will tell if I'm wrong.
     
    DP, Apr 11, 2007
    #14
  15. DP

    Doris Day Guest

    Tony Sperling wrote:

    > I really don't think that anyone would benefit from buying any kind of a
    > pre-installed anything. Particularly Linux. Isn't it a vital part of
    > running any OS, that you are familiar with the most basic of basics when
    > you start? O.K. so we all have to start somewhere but nobody is going
    > anywhere with a pre-installed Linux! It looks good and sounds nice in the
    > add's, but it's a stumbling block for a newbie - and a nuisance for the
    > more advanced!
    >

    Why would it be anymore of a stumbling block for a newbie than providing a
    computer with Windoze preloaded? By definition a "newbie" will have to
    learn to use any computer he/she first purchases. A modern day GNU/Linux
    distro is just as easy to use as a Windoze computer. In fact, probably
    easier because the newbie doesn't have to dealing with anti-malware crap,
    disk defrags, finding drivers, etc. Software installation is definitely
    easier on GNU/Linux than it is under Windoze.

    The "more advanced" will be able to wipe the drive and install any distro
    he/she wishes. At least the user will know that the hardware Dell supplied
    will work with GNU/Linux regardless of the distribution.

    Love and Kisses,
    Doris

    > The sales people love to market a computer as if it were a fridge - 'plug
    > it in, and in 15 minutes you'll have cold beer! But in reality, you cannot
    > run it for two days without being educated, and that's not even any start.
    > The education never stops!!!
    >
    > Moreover, I wouldn't trust anyone who offers 512MB machines as having
    > twice the RAM, as DELL has been doing for more than a year now!
    >
    > (Finito!)
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    >
    > "Dale White" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> I think it's awesome and I personally hope that every PC vendor starts
    >> offering Linux. Who cares how many they sale, it gives consumers a
    >> choice. Hopefully, no one will buy Linux by accident. I'd love to see
    >> Linux\Mac

    > take
    >> over about 30-40% of the desktop space. I'm not a Microsoft hater, but
    >> Microsoft is in need of serious competition to wake them up from their
    >> slumber. Intel needed AMD, nVidia needs ATI. Microsoft needs something
    >> as well.
    >>
    >> Plus Dell isn't doing so good right now, so why not show they are still
    >> young and hip. There are junior techie's that aren't quite there yet, but
    >> want to kick Microsoft to the curb (cause that's the in thing these
    >> days). It makes it a little easier when you can buy a box with Linux
    >> already installed and tested and all one has to do is go ! Hopefully,
    >> they won't

    > get
    >> all the extra un-needed crap loaded under Linux that they do un Windows.
    >>
    >> I don't see this has a big money maker at first, it's an investment that

    > may
    >> or may not pay out. If it does catch on, they'll be ahead of the other
    >> vendors. If it doesn't, it will be just another R&D style writeoff
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> "DP" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> >

    > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198800645
    >> >
    >> > Article says most of Dell's customers wanting Linux machines will be
    >> > "techies."
    >> > That, to me, then raises the question: How many hard-core techies are
    >> > going to want a Dell?
    >> >
    >> > I could be way wrong, but I think Dell will find out this was a

    > disastrous
    >> > move. This is not a knock against Linux. It's just that I think that a
    >> > company that has made its fortune by trying to be a mass-market
    >> > computer maker is not going to generate a lot of income from machines
    >> > using an operating system that for now is a niche market.
    >> >

    >>
    >>


    --
    My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ... http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2
    Get SP3 for XP here! .... http://tinyurl.com/374p49
    Title Says It All ... http://tinyurl.com/2ssodl
     
    Doris Day, Apr 11, 2007
    #15
  16. DP

    Tom Scales Guest

    "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    <snip>
    > Moreover, I wouldn't trust anyone who offers 512MB machines as having
    > twice
    > the RAM, as DELL has been doing for more than a year now!
    >
    > (Finito!)
    >
    > Tony. . .



    What are you talking about?
     
    Tom Scales, Apr 11, 2007
    #16
  17. DP

    Doris Day Guest

    Alias wrote:

    > Homer J. Simpson wrote:
    >>> Who cares how many they sale

    >>
    >> a) You buy a Dell system preloaded with Linux

    >
    > Bad idea.
    >

    Why is it a bad idea? If Dell is able to tune the Linux supplied with the
    hardware in the box, it'll have something much like Apple has with its Mac.
    A great operating system that just works with the hardware. Pretty good
    deal for the newbie and a heck of a lot cheaper than a Mac.

    >> b) Six months later Dell realizes the return on their initial investment
    >> isn't as good as hoped

    >
    > Methinks Dell has realized that hardware doesn't make the kind of money
    > that support and repair does.
    >

    I wouldn't doubt that other than supporting its hardware, Dell leaves the
    support to the community of the distro(s) it provides. If it was to preload
    Ubuntu for example, the Ubuntu community offers incredible support. Second
    to none in the industry.

    The real plus to Dell bundling GNU/Linux is that Dell is such a big player
    in the market, it can use that to leverage its hardware suppliers to come
    up with open source drivers. This would be a BIG plus for GNU/Linux, no
    matter what distro as the open source community wouldn't have to try a
    reverse engineer the drivers for the hardware like they are forced to do
    now with closed source proprietary hardware. Open source drivers for ATI or
    nVidia for example would allow for much better drivers that'll work better
    with the kernels out there. It will allow for much quicker bug fixes for
    the drivers and the innovation that comes through the open source model
    will give us the maximum bang for the buck.

    Love and Kisses,
    Doris


    >> c) Dell decides to stop supporting Linux

    >
    > See above.
    >
    >>
    >> May you won't admit it, but in the big picture, I'm pretty sure you *do*
    >> care how many they sell.

    >
    > The more the merrier, be it Dell or the shop down the street.
    >
    > Alias


    --
    My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ... http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2
    Get SP3 for XP here! .... http://tinyurl.com/374p49
    Title Says It All ... http://tinyurl.com/2ssodl
     
    Doris Day, Apr 11, 2007
    #17
  18. DP

    Alias Guest

    Doris Day wrote:
    > Alias wrote:
    >
    >> Homer J. Simpson wrote:
    >>>> Who cares how many they sale
    >>> a) You buy a Dell system preloaded with Linux

    >> Bad idea.
    >>

    > Why is it a bad idea? If Dell is able to tune the Linux supplied with the
    > hardware in the box, it'll have something much like Apple has with its Mac.
    > A great operating system that just works with the hardware. Pretty good
    > deal for the newbie and a heck of a lot cheaper than a Mac.


    For the newbie, yes, you have a point. Not for me, though.

    >
    >>> b) Six months later Dell realizes the return on their initial investment
    >>> isn't as good as hoped

    >> Methinks Dell has realized that hardware doesn't make the kind of money
    >> that support and repair does.
    >>

    > I wouldn't doubt that other than supporting its hardware, Dell leaves the
    > support to the community of the distro(s) it provides. If it was to preload
    > Ubuntu for example, the Ubuntu community offers incredible support. Second
    > to none in the industry.
    >
    > The real plus to Dell bundling GNU/Linux is that Dell is such a big player
    > in the market, it can use that to leverage its hardware suppliers to come
    > up with open source drivers. This would be a BIG plus for GNU/Linux, no
    > matter what distro as the open source community wouldn't have to try a
    > reverse engineer the drivers for the hardware like they are forced to do
    > now with closed source proprietary hardware. Open source drivers for ATI or
    > nVidia for example would allow for much better drivers that'll work better
    > with the kernels out there. It will allow for much quicker bug fixes for
    > the drivers and the innovation that comes through the open source model
    > will give us the maximum bang for the buck.
    >
    > Love and Kisses,
    > Doris


    Good points but I also suspect that Dell will offer support packages.

    Alias
    >
    >
    >>> c) Dell decides to stop supporting Linux

    >> See above.
    >>
    >>> May you won't admit it, but in the big picture, I'm pretty sure you *do*
    >>> care how many they sell.

    >> The more the merrier, be it Dell or the shop down the street.
    >>
    >> Alias

    >
     
    Alias, Apr 11, 2007
    #18
  19. I am refering to the direct mail brochures that is regularly dumped through
    my letter-box and for which I am not payed for the ordeal of carrying to the
    container. The machines are not as cheap as they are made to look and they
    are severely underconfigured compared to buying your own from any local PC
    store, only in the last month or two have they marketed 1MB machines as
    having 'twice the RAM', and naturally not with any trivial addition to the
    price.

    I think the marketing strategy stinks, regardless that the machines have a
    good name. But good, as well, is HP's name, and you get a lot more for a
    little less!

    Perhaps, Dell would have an edge if they told people to calculate the total
    costs at the end of ownership - I'm not impressed from the type of
    over-hyping they have in fact been using.


    Tony. . .


    "Tom Scales" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > <snip>
    > > Moreover, I wouldn't trust anyone who offers 512MB machines as having
    > > twice
    > > the RAM, as DELL has been doing for more than a year now!
    > >
    > > (Finito!)
    > >
    > > Tony. . .

    >
    >
    > What are you talking about?
    >
    >
     
    Tony Sperling, Apr 11, 2007
    #19
  20. Lady Day,

    on any given day I would probably agree more or less completely with that.
    But juggling the question of the useabillity of a pre-installed OS, the
    generalisation I make is of the same sort as: "Why does it allways rain on
    my vacations?"

    Comparing Windows and Linux for the general first-timer has to be a question
    of meeting two different versions of 'Documentation Hell' - in Windows you
    have all the misinformation in one central place (the Help Files!). In Linux
    you have all the little technicalities, down to the last comma, painfully
    described and stripped of all philosophy scattered all around and (in both
    instances!) written by the developer while in the process of primarily
    tangling semi-colons. (The Code!)

    Documentation has to be written by Language People who know how to compose a
    large amount of text and how to present the knowledge within, to those who
    sit there with a head that is rapidly filling up with question marks.

    The general first-timer will know infinitly more people with personal
    experience from a Windows Computer, and they need to talk much more than
    read, if you have listened to any amount of Windows talk, your first
    encounter with Linux talk will be incomprehensible even though the concepts
    are easy enough and there are really nothing that differs between the
    systems, just the talk and the dogma and bits of the code.

    If every newbie was a youngster at a Collage full of Unix awareness, the
    reverse would be true, there is a gap, and the gap is not a void, it is a
    dogma barrier, and wichever side of that barrier you scale first will have
    your pre-judgements lined up before you even recognize them yourself. And
    more people will be scaling that barrier from the Windows side, and that is
    why I say that Linux is harder, in that it has a steeper learning-curve,
    because with Linux you are much more being left to your own [devices].

    But I really did say ANY OS! You run the installation and re-boot the
    machine - is that an 'Installed' OS? To me, it is not installed until you
    have tweaked and configured it to your own 'Preference', 'Use' and the
    'Devices' you are going to attach. 'Helping' the unsuspecting victim skip
    this initial step is not helpfull at all, because they will have a lot to
    learn and they will learn more and quicker if they do it all themselves,
    because when they plug it in and press that button, they are all alone
    anyhow, and staring into that barrier.

    With your own background - would you enjoy sitting there, looking at a
    system configured by some punk and take off on that endless route of
    configuration? No, you would take it down immediately and start all over, so
    why should you pay good and hard-earned money and feel that you've just made
    a bargain?

    I installed my first Linux in -95 or -96, it was a Slackware system, I think
    it was the one that actually started the whole 'Distribution' craze - that
    don't make me an expert, in fact I am still struggling because I don't have
    much professional use of any of the many OS's I have installed, I am just
    interested in the internals - I like the concept of OS's, and I am preparing
    for the next war, which will be a technology massacre between the EU and US
    at the dawn of the Chinese taking over, and I believe I will have great use
    of that knowledge, before I'm lined up before the firing-squad, here at
    home, because someone will have me misquoted!


    Tony. . .


    "Doris Day" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Tony Sperling wrote:
    >
    > > I really don't think that anyone would benefit from buying any kind of a
    > > pre-installed anything. Particularly Linux. Isn't it a vital part of
    > > running any OS, that you are familiar with the most basic of basics when
    > > you start? O.K. so we all have to start somewhere but nobody is going
    > > anywhere with a pre-installed Linux! It looks good and sounds nice in

    the
    > > add's, but it's a stumbling block for a newbie - and a nuisance for the
    > > more advanced!
    > >

    > Why would it be anymore of a stumbling block for a newbie than providing a
    > computer with Windoze preloaded? By definition a "newbie" will have to
    > learn to use any computer he/she first purchases. A modern day GNU/Linux
    > distro is just as easy to use as a Windoze computer. In fact, probably
    > easier because the newbie doesn't have to dealing with anti-malware crap,
    > disk defrags, finding drivers, etc. Software installation is definitely
    > easier on GNU/Linux than it is under Windoze.
    >
    > The "more advanced" will be able to wipe the drive and install any distro
    > he/she wishes. At least the user will know that the hardware Dell supplied
    > will work with GNU/Linux regardless of the distribution.
    >
    > Love and Kisses,
    > Doris
    >
    > > The sales people love to market a computer as if it were a fridge -

    'plug
    > > it in, and in 15 minutes you'll have cold beer! But in reality, you

    cannot
    > > run it for two days without being educated, and that's not even any

    start.
    > > The education never stops!!!
    > >
    > > Moreover, I wouldn't trust anyone who offers 512MB machines as having
    > > twice the RAM, as DELL has been doing for more than a year now!
    > >
    > > (Finito!)
    > >
    > > Tony. . .
    > >
    > >
    > > "Dale White" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >> I think it's awesome and I personally hope that every PC vendor starts
    > >> offering Linux. Who cares how many they sale, it gives consumers a
    > >> choice. Hopefully, no one will buy Linux by accident. I'd love to see
    > >> Linux\Mac

    > > take
    > >> over about 30-40% of the desktop space. I'm not a Microsoft hater, but
    > >> Microsoft is in need of serious competition to wake them up from their
    > >> slumber. Intel needed AMD, nVidia needs ATI. Microsoft needs something
    > >> as well.
    > >>
    > >> Plus Dell isn't doing so good right now, so why not show they are still
    > >> young and hip. There are junior techie's that aren't quite there yet,

    but
    > >> want to kick Microsoft to the curb (cause that's the in thing these
    > >> days). It makes it a little easier when you can buy a box with Linux
    > >> already installed and tested and all one has to do is go ! Hopefully,
    > >> they won't

    > > get
    > >> all the extra un-needed crap loaded under Linux that they do un

    Windows.
    > >>
    > >> I don't see this has a big money maker at first, it's an investment

    that
    > > may
    > >> or may not pay out. If it does catch on, they'll be ahead of the other
    > >> vendors. If it doesn't, it will be just another R&D style writeoff
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> "DP" <> wrote in message
    > >> news:...
    > >> >

    > >

    http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198800645
    > >> >
    > >> > Article says most of Dell's customers wanting Linux machines will be
    > >> > "techies."
    > >> > That, to me, then raises the question: How many hard-core techies are
    > >> > going to want a Dell?
    > >> >
    > >> > I could be way wrong, but I think Dell will find out this was a

    > > disastrous
    > >> > move. This is not a knock against Linux. It's just that I think that

    a
    > >> > company that has made its fortune by trying to be a mass-market
    > >> > computer maker is not going to generate a lot of income from machines
    > >> > using an operating system that for now is a niche market.
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >>

    >
    > --
    > My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ... http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2
    > Get SP3 for XP here! .... http://tinyurl.com/374p49
    > Title Says It All ... http://tinyurl.com/2ssodl
    >
    >
     
    Tony Sperling, Apr 11, 2007
    #20
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