Deleting pictures on an SD card

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Kiran, Feb 9, 2007.

  1. Kiran

    Jon Guest

    Colin_D <nospam@127.0.0.1> wrote:

    > Jon wrote:
    > > Ed Ruf <"Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!)" <>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 23:24:31 +0930, in rec.photo.digital jmc
    > >> <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> Which brings me to my second point. You'd think that a full format
    > >>> would delete the images, but at least on my three Nikon cameras, it does
    > >>> not - image recovery software easily gets the pictures back.
    > >> No you would not think that.

    > >
    > > Just to be very clear: This is equally true on a normal hard drive
    > > unless you do a low level format or you zero and/or overwrite all the
    > > data (preferably multiple times if you really, REALLY want to be sure.)

    >
    > That is so with magnetic storage media. With flash memory a single
    > overwrite is all that is needed to totally erase any data.
    >
    > Colin D.


    Thanks. I learned something today, too, then. :)
    --
    /Jon
    For contact info, run the following in Terminal:
    Mail: echo 36199371860304980107073482417748002696458P|dc
    Skype: echo 139576319600233690471689738P|dc
     
    Jon, Feb 10, 2007
    #41
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  2. Kiran

    Jon Guest

    Re: Deleting pictures on an SD card - COMMON MISUNDERSTANDING

    Colin_D <nospam@127.0.0.1> wrote:

    > Reading through this thread shows that a common misunderstanding is that
    > formatting a card will erase the images.


    Reading _though_ the thread I think will also show that this topic has
    now been covered forwards, backwards and across - but thanks anyway. :)
    --
    /Jon
    For contact info, run the following in Terminal:
    Mail: echo 36199371860304980107073482417748002696458P|dc
    Skype: echo 139576319600233690471689738P|dc
     
    Jon, Feb 10, 2007
    #42
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  3. Jon wrote:
    > John McWilliams <> wrote:
    >
    >> It's interesting to me, and possibly others, that the thread
    >> goes on and on about things the OP didn't ask about. Not that that's
    >> terribly unusual, but it struck me.

    >
    > Terribly _normal_, in my experience! ;-)


    Yes, sadly. Even expected. Next time: no understatement, just
    hyperbole....<s>

    --
    john mcwilliams
     
    John McWilliams, Feb 10, 2007
    #43
  4. Kiran

    Colin_D Guest

    William Mitchell wrote:
    > Colin_D <nospam@127.0.0.1> writes:
    >
    >> Ron, read my post immediately before yours.
    >>
    >> Formatting in camera does NOT erase or delete the images; it only
    >> rewrites the FAT table. The images remain. Computer formatting, as
    >> you say, is somewhat unreliable, but if one does a standard FAT16 or
    >> FAT32 full format it should be ok.

    >
    > Did you read any of the posts other than yours?
    >
    > Nobody gives a %%%% whether it removes the data from the card.
    > Nobody here is working for the CIA. Nobody here has been taking
    > pictures of themselves in bed with their wife's sister. They just
    > want to be able to take more pictures.
    >

    What's up your nose then? The OP wanted to *delete* (his words). So,
    it was apposite to consider that he might want to delete the images as
    opposed to merely reformatting the card, although he didn't say so, one
    way or the other.

    Some posters appear to think that an in camera format erases the images,
    which it does not. My posts were intended to be helpful to anyone who
    may be hazy about the subject.

    Maybe you should check your mood before you hit the keyboard.

    Colin D.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
     
    Colin_D, Feb 10, 2007
    #44
  5. Kiran

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Colin_D wrote:
    > Just D wrote:
    >> "Colin_D"
    >>> FAT16 is limited by its design to a maximum of 2 gigabytes. You
    >>> cannot format 4 and 8 gigabyte cards with FAT16, and any camera that
    >>> can use those cards will use FAT32.

    >>
    >> First, I didn't write about 8GB cards, only about 4 GB cards.

    >
    > Quote from your earlier post:
    > "That's why I asked here before
    > if anybody has any trouble formatting SDHC cards, particularly 4 and 8 GB
    > SDHC with D80."
    > where you mention 8GB cards.
    >
    >>
    >> Second:
    >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/118335
    >>
    >> but this as well:
    >>
    >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310561
    >>
    >> MORE INFORMATION
    >> Windows XP supports the creation of primary partitions and logical
    >> drives of up to 4 gigabytes (GB) using the FAT16 file system. The
    >> maximum cluster size is 64K.
    >>
    >> The 4-GB partition limit is imposed by the maximum number of clusters
    >> and the largest cluster size supported by the FAT file system. In
    >> Windows XP, FAT16 is limited to 64K clusters. Multiply the maximum
    >> number of clusters (64k) by the maximum cluster size (64K), and the
    >> result is 4GB. In addition to Windows XP, Microsoft Windows 2000 and
    >> Microsoft Windows NT 4.0 also support FAT16 volumes up to 4GB in size.

    >
    > Prior versions of Windows supports only 2 GB, so to be safe one should,
    > for the sake of compatibility only format to 2GB. There's no guarantee
    > that because Win NT and later supports 4GB that cameras will do the same.


    >

    Some already DO. Look for mention of FAT32 in the specs.
     
    Ron Hunter, Feb 10, 2007
    #45
  6. Kiran

    jmc Guest

    Suddenly, without warning, Ed Ruf <Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!)
    exclaimed (09-Feb-07 11:38 PM):
    > On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 23:24:31 +0930, in rec.photo.digital jmc
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Which brings me to my second point. You'd think that a full format
    >> would delete the images, but at least on my three Nikon cameras, it does
    >> not - image recovery software easily gets the pictures back.

    >
    > No you would not think that. All this high level formatting does here
    > is overwrite the FAT.



    Well, yes, I know this (I'm a pc tech by profession). However, your
    average user may not realize this, and at least my cameras' manuals
    don't say "the FAT's overwritten", it says "the pictures are deleted"...
    the average user will think that this is true.

    jmc
     
    jmc, Feb 10, 2007
    #46
  7. Kiran

    Ron Hunter Guest

    jmc wrote:
    > Suddenly, without warning, Ed Ruf <Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!)
    > exclaimed (09-Feb-07 11:38 PM):
    >> On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 23:24:31 +0930, in rec.photo.digital jmc
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Which brings me to my second point. You'd think that a full format
    >>> would delete the images, but at least on my three Nikon cameras, it
    >>> does not - image recovery software easily gets the pictures back.

    >>
    >> No you would not think that. All this high level formatting does here
    >> is overwrite the FAT.

    >
    >
    > Well, yes, I know this (I'm a pc tech by profession). However, your
    > average user may not realize this, and at least my cameras' manuals
    > don't say "the FAT's overwritten", it says "the pictures are deleted"...
    > the average user will think that this is true.
    >
    > jmc


    In general, file management routines are written to do things as fast,
    and efficiently as possible. Simply writing a set of new FAT sectors
    with no sectors allocated, followed by writing a new root directory with
    only the folder structure in it. ONLY the FAT and directories are
    overwritten to save time. The only programs which actually rewrite data
    sectors are 'security' type programs called 'file shredders' that
    repeatedly write multiple bit patterns over the old data sectors to
    prevent them from being recovered.
     
    Ron Hunter, Feb 10, 2007
    #47
  8. Kiran

    Nullibicity Guest

    In article <45cd5374$0$28153$>,
    Phil Wheeler <> wrote:

    > Colin_D wrote:
    > > Ron Hunter wrote:
    > >> Kiran wrote:
    > >>> I wish to delete the pictures on my digital camera's SD card, which is
    > >>> almost full. Is it best to do it withe camera controls or computer
    > >>> controls? Thank you.
    > >> If you wish to delete all the pictures, I suggest you make use of the
    > >> camera's 'format' feature. This does the job quickly, and cleanly.
    > >> Doing the deletion on a computer seems to give some users of some
    > >> cameras a bad time. I often delete from the computer, with no
    > >> problems on my Kodak cameras. Formatting on the computer is more
    > >> likely to cause problems than just deleting files.

    > >
    > > Ron, read my post immediately before yours.
    > >
    > > Formatting in camera does NOT erase or delete the images; it only
    > > rewrites the FAT table.

    >
    > For most of us, it matters not. If you're a spy, well . . .
    >
    > BTW .. what's your name again??


    It should and does matter. Identity theft is a massive problem that
    only gets worse when people don't question how data is stored or deleted.

    --
    Nullibicity
    http://www.nullibicity.com/
     
    Nullibicity, Feb 10, 2007
    #48
  9. Kiran

    Paul Sture Guest

    In article <45cd52d9$0$28153$>,
    Phil Wheeler <> wrote:

    > William Mitchell wrote:
    > > Colin_D <nospam@127.0.0.1> writes:
    > >
    > >> Ron, read my post immediately before yours.
    > >>
    > >> Formatting in camera does NOT erase or delete the images; it only
    > >> rewrites the FAT table. The images remain. Computer formatting, as
    > >> you say, is somewhat unreliable, but if one does a standard FAT16 or
    > >> FAT32 full format it should be ok.

    > >
    > >Nobody here has been taking
    > > pictures of themselves in bed with their wife's sister.

    >
    > Well--Are you certain about that? <grin>
    >


    Who told you lot about my wife's sister?

    --
    Paul Sture
     
    Paul Sture, Feb 10, 2007
    #49
  10. In article <>,
    William Mitchell <> wrote:
    >
    >Nobody gives a %%%% whether it removes the data from the card.
    >Nobody here is working for the CIA. Nobody here has been taking
    >pictures of themselves in bed with their wife's sister.


    Hey, speak for yourself. Well, technically it's not MY wife's
    sister... uhh, honey, you're not reading Usenet are you? :)
    --
    There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
    result in a fully-depreciated one.
     
    Matthew T. Russotto, Feb 11, 2007
    #50
  11. Kiran

    Paul Allen Guest

    On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 09:40:36 -0700
    "Just D" <> wrote:

    > It's much easier to use some special tool rewriting the location
    > occupied by these files with some random data. Even ancient Norton
    > Tools were able to do that. Or you or anybody of your friend
    > programmer can write this tool in coupe minutes using any computer
    > language :) The algorithm is pretty simple - delete all original
    > files, create one or many files depending on the maximum file size
    > available for this file system, fill this file or files with some
    > random info, finally delete this temporary file. Even if this file is
    > restored it's worthless.


    You are in a dimly-lit room surrounded by humming machines. It is
    rather cold. A cypher-locked door is behind you. It is closed.
    Before you is a white-board with this incantation scrawled across
    it in faintly luminous blue marker:

    dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda

    An old Unix greybeard steps out from behind one of the machines,
    hands you a quarter, and says, "Here, kid. Go buy yourself a real
    computer." Intoning "XYZZY", he vanishes.

    With apologies to Crowther and Wood.

    Paul Allen
     
    Paul Allen, Feb 12, 2007
    #51
  12. Kiran

    Garry Knight Guest

    Paul Allen wrote:

    > On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 09:40:36 -0700
    > "Just D" <> wrote:
    >
    >> It's much easier to use some special tool rewriting the location
    >> occupied by these files with some random data.

    ....
    > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda
    >
    > An old Unix greybeard steps out from behind one of the machines,
    > hands you a quarter, and says, "Here, kid. Go buy yourself a real
    > computer." Intoning "XYZZY", he vanishes


    ....just after he re-types the magic formula:
    dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda

    --
    Garry Knight
     
    Garry Knight, Feb 12, 2007
    #52
  13. Kiran

    Marc Heusser Guest

    In article <090220070353386648%>, Kiran <>
    wrote:

    > I wish to delete the pictures on my digital camera's SD card, which is
    > almost full. Is it best to do it withe camera controls or computer
    > controls? Thank you.


    Simple, but not secure: Just toss your pictures into Thrash, and then
    select "Empty Thrash" from Finder's Finder menu. This will only delete
    the directory entries, the actual files can be recovered (eg with File
    Juicer, http://echoone.com/filejuicer/).
    Or on the camera select Format card.

    Simple and secure: As above, but select "Secure Empty Trash" from
    Finder's Finder menu.
    This will overwrite the actual data several times by invoking the unix
    command srm (for secure remove, resides in /usr/bin/srm on your machine,
    read the man page by typing man srm in Terminal if you are curious) -
    this has been written for exactly this purpose in the best unix
    tradition - solving one problem once and for all. If you want to take a
    look at the source code: http://sourceforge.net/projects/srm.
    No way to get the pictures back.

    HTH

    Marc

    --
    Switzerland/Europe
    <http://www.heusser.com>
    remove CHEERS and from MERCIAL to get valid e-mail
     
    Marc Heusser, Feb 12, 2007
    #53
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