Defragger (and other) Over head

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by BP, Jun 1, 2009.

  1. BP

    BP Guest

    Within the past week or so I installed SP2 on my 64-bit Vista Home Premium
    system. At the time I had approximately 550 gigs free space on my hard
    drive. Since then I've read email and have probably had some MS updates.
    I've also defragged using JKDefrag. I now have 494 gigs of free space on
    the drive, with the biggest hit occurring after the defragging. I've
    noticed reduced free space with other defraggers, and it has been months
    since I last defragged, but the hit was BIG. Where does the free space go?
    I figure that Windows must eat up some but so much????

    Any ideas on what is happening, or even any idea which might be the best
    forum to ask my question on?
     
    BP, Jun 1, 2009
    #1
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  2. BP

    Carlos Guest

    Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools.
    Run disk cleanup (or whatever it is translated into English).
    That should release valuable disk real state.
    Also the accumulation of restore points might be taking a toll on the
    available space.
    Carlos

    "BP" wrote:

    >
    > Within the past week or so I installed SP2 on my 64-bit Vista Home Premium
    > system. At the time I had approximately 550 gigs free space on my hard
    > drive. Since then I've read email and have probably had some MS updates.
    > I've also defragged using JKDefrag. I now have 494 gigs of free space on
    > the drive, with the biggest hit occurring after the defragging. I've
    > noticed reduced free space with other defraggers, and it has been months
    > since I last defragged, but the hit was BIG. Where does the free space go?
    > I figure that Windows must eat up some but so much????
    >
    > Any ideas on what is happening, or even any idea which might be the best
    > forum to ask my question on?
    >
     
    Carlos, Jun 1, 2009
    #2
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  3. BP

    BP Guest

    Thanks Carlos. I've tried the Disk Cleanup - there's maybe 3 gigs with
    hibernation related files. I'm not sure what they do, but it's a small (by
    today's standards) and the space isn't needed so I don't worry about it.
    I can see the restore points eating disk space, but I haven't installed
    anything lately and I noticed the big hit , maybe 20 to 30 gigs, after
    defragging. It's as if the files are defragged, but a lot of unused space
    is left behind.


    On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:45:01 -0700, Carlos wrote:

    > Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools.
    > Run disk cleanup (or whatever it is translated into English).
    > That should release valuable disk real state.
    > Also the accumulation of restore points might be taking a toll on the
    > available space.
    > Carlos
    >
    > "BP" wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Within the past week or so I installed SP2 on my 64-bit Vista Home Premium
    >> system. At the time I had approximately 550 gigs free space on my hard
    >> drive. Since then I've read email and have probably had some MS updates.
    >> I've also defragged using JKDefrag. I now have 494 gigs of free space on
    >> the drive, with the biggest hit occurring after the defragging. I've
    >> noticed reduced free space with other defraggers, and it has been months
    >> since I last defragged, but the hit was BIG. Where does the free space go?
    >> I figure that Windows must eat up some but so much????
    >>
    >> Any ideas on what is happening, or even any idea which might be the best
    >> forum to ask my question on?
    >>
     
    BP, Jun 1, 2009
    #3
  4. If you are sure SP2 is causing no problems, see
    http://www.mydigitallife.info/2008/...sta-sp2-to-clean-up-old-rtm-sp1-backup-files/
    and you can remove the backup the SP2 install created. Once you do this
    you cannot uninstall SP2.

    As Carlos says, system restore points use a lot of space. They can be
    removed in the More options tab in Disk cleanup. Once removed, you
    cannot use System Restore if you have a problem. A restore point is
    created each time you boot, not just when you install new items.

    Disk cleanup only removes files that are over a week old. If you have
    had any application crashes they may have left temporary files which are
    not yet due for cleanup or are in locations which Disk cleanup does not
    control.

    You can view and manually remove temporary files from
    C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\Temp.



    On 01/06/2009 04:57, BP wrote:
    > Thanks Carlos. I've tried the Disk Cleanup - there's maybe 3 gigs with
    > hibernation related files. I'm not sure what they do, but it's a small (by
    > today's standards) and the space isn't needed so I don't worry about it.
    > I can see the restore points eating disk space, but I haven't installed
    > anything lately and I noticed the big hit , maybe 20 to 30 gigs, after
    > defragging. It's as if the files are defragged, but a lot of unused space
    > is left behind.
    >
    >
    > On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:45:01 -0700, Carlos wrote:
    >
    >> Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools.
    >> Run disk cleanup (or whatever it is translated into English).
    >> That should release valuable disk real state.
    >> Also the accumulation of restore points might be taking a toll on the
    >> available space.
    >> Carlos
    >>
    >> "BP" wrote:
    >>
    >>> Within the past week or so I installed SP2 on my 64-bit Vista Home Premium
    >>> system. At the time I had approximately 550 gigs free space on my hard
    >>> drive. Since then I've read email and have probably had some MS updates.
    >>> I've also defragged using JKDefrag. I now have 494 gigs of free space on
    >>> the drive, with the biggest hit occurring after the defragging. I've
    >>> noticed reduced free space with other defraggers, and it has been months
    >>> since I last defragged, but the hit was BIG. Where does the free space go?
    >>> I figure that Windows must eat up some but so much????
    >>>
    >>> Any ideas on what is happening, or even any idea which might be the best
    >>> forum to ask my question on?
    >>>
     
    Dominic Payer, Jun 1, 2009
    #4
  5. I have never experienced 'defragging' eating up free space. One possible
    cause to this symptom [might] be small RAM size that could make your page
    file expand - this expansion will later be left behind.

    Reasonable amount of RAM, reasonable Page File (Fixed) size, and not less
    than some 20% free space on the HD(s) should keep this from ever happening.


    Tony. . .
     
    Tony Sperling, Jun 1, 2009
    #5
  6. BP

    Carlos Guest

    Dominic,
    My favorite shortcut for the temp dir is
    Win Key + R, %temp% <ENTER>
    Carlos

    "Dominic Payer" wrote:

    > If you are sure SP2 is causing no problems, see
    > http://www.mydigitallife.info/2008/...sta-sp2-to-clean-up-old-rtm-sp1-backup-files/
    > and you can remove the backup the SP2 install created. Once you do this
    > you cannot uninstall SP2.
    >
    > As Carlos says, system restore points use a lot of space. They can be
    > removed in the More options tab in Disk cleanup. Once removed, you
    > cannot use System Restore if you have a problem. A restore point is
    > created each time you boot, not just when you install new items.
    >
    > Disk cleanup only removes files that are over a week old. If you have
    > had any application crashes they may have left temporary files which are
    > not yet due for cleanup or are in locations which Disk cleanup does not
    > control.
    >
    > You can view and manually remove temporary files from
    > C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\Temp.
    >
    >
    >
    > On 01/06/2009 04:57, BP wrote:
    > > Thanks Carlos. I've tried the Disk Cleanup - there's maybe 3 gigs with
    > > hibernation related files. I'm not sure what they do, but it's a small (by
    > > today's standards) and the space isn't needed so I don't worry about it.
    > > I can see the restore points eating disk space, but I haven't installed
    > > anything lately and I noticed the big hit , maybe 20 to 30 gigs, after
    > > defragging. It's as if the files are defragged, but a lot of unused space
    > > is left behind.
    > >
    > >
    > > On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:45:01 -0700, Carlos wrote:
    > >
    > >> Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools.
    > >> Run disk cleanup (or whatever it is translated into English).
    > >> That should release valuable disk real state.
    > >> Also the accumulation of restore points might be taking a toll on the
    > >> available space.
    > >> Carlos
    > >>
    > >> "BP" wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> Within the past week or so I installed SP2 on my 64-bit Vista Home Premium
    > >>> system. At the time I had approximately 550 gigs free space on my hard
    > >>> drive. Since then I've read email and have probably had some MS updates.
    > >>> I've also defragged using JKDefrag. I now have 494 gigs of free space on
    > >>> the drive, with the biggest hit occurring after the defragging. I've
    > >>> noticed reduced free space with other defraggers, and it has been months
    > >>> since I last defragged, but the hit was BIG. Where does the free space go?
    > >>> I figure that Windows must eat up some but so much????
    > >>>
    > >>> Any ideas on what is happening, or even any idea which might be the best
    > >>> forum to ask my question on?
    > >>>

    >
     
    Carlos, Jun 1, 2009
    #6
  7. BP

    BP Guest

    On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 10:48:14 +0200, Tony Sperling wrote:

    > I have never experienced 'defragging' eating up free space. One possible
    > cause to this symptom [might] be small RAM size that could make your page
    > file expand - this expansion will later be left behind.
    >
    > Reasonable amount of RAM, reasonable Page File (Fixed) size, and not less
    > than some 20% free space on the HD(s) should keep this from ever happening.
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .


    Thanks for the information. It's a puzzle. I have 4 gigs of RAM, which
    ought to be enough (The "gauge" in the Vista Side bar has never gone over
    60% Ram use)and, even with the disappearing Drive Space I have 480 gigs
    free. Oh, well. Maybe there are mysteries we aren't supposed to solve.
     
    BP, Jun 3, 2009
    #7
  8. You are probably mostly right - putting my own historical use-pattern to
    some criticism, a computer tends to be a creativity generator for many
    people and the creativity generated will often outsmart us at some point.
    Vista has built-in auto defragging - I see that you have used some 3:rd
    party defragger to compare your results. If the JKDefrag (which I do not
    know anything about) was run while Vistas auto-defragging was active the two
    may interfere with each other.

    The O/S nowadays is built around internal systems that we may not know how
    they will respond to 'fiddling'. This means that in all normal situations it
    may be far better to leave things like memory handling and page files and
    defragging strictly alone. Using this as a basic setup I have tried running
    a smooth and lean machine, the result being that my systems are generally
    friendly and is serving me quite few surprises.

    I would never recommend anyone not to experiment - experiments are a great
    way to learning, but as technology advances it is getting increasingly
    dangerous to accumulate series of experiments without being able to
    back-trace every single step. Loosing your way can mean sleepless nights.

    Personally, I might have tried having your machine set up using the
    auto-defragging and un-installing any third-party stuff and then leaving it
    alone for some two weeks. Also, make sure Windows is set up to handle the
    Virtual Memory as it expects it, with it's default Page File size and then
    leave that alone for a while. See if it helps, if it doesn't, make sure you
    remove any downloaded and installed programs that you don't use. It's
    surprising how often stuff like that can disturb an otherwise healthy
    system. Just don't panic - set it up defensively and let it have it's way,
    then you can make your research and start tweaking if you feel you have to.
    Never tweak a system that isn't perfectly healthy.

    I have no way of knowing if this applies to you at all, it will apply to
    someone else. Your story indicates you have an able system there, the
    strange behaviour, though, could easily be signs of over-experimentation.


    Tony. . .





    "BP" <> wrote in message
    news:h04qjv$2ha$-september.org...
    >
    > On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 10:48:14 +0200, Tony Sperling wrote:
    >
    >> I have never experienced 'defragging' eating up free space. One possible
    >> cause to this symptom [might] be small RAM size that could make your page
    >> file expand - this expansion will later be left behind.
    >>
    >> Reasonable amount of RAM, reasonable Page File (Fixed) size, and not less
    >> than some 20% free space on the HD(s) should keep this from ever
    >> happening.
    >>
    >>
    >> Tony. . .

    >
    > Thanks for the information. It's a puzzle. I have 4 gigs of RAM, which
    > ought to be enough (The "gauge" in the Vista Side bar has never gone over
    > 60% Ram use)and, even with the disappearing Drive Space I have 480 gigs
    > free. Oh, well. Maybe there are mysteries we aren't supposed to solve.
     
    Tony Sperling, Jun 3, 2009
    #8
  9. You are probably mostly right - putting my own historical use-pattern to
    some criticism, a computer tends to be a creativity generator for many
    people and the creativity generated will often outsmart us at some point.
    Vista has built-in auto defragging - I see that you have used some 3:rd
    party defragger to compare your results. If the JKDefrag (which I do not
    know anything about) was run while Vistas auto-defragging was active the two
    may interfere with each other.

    The O/S nowadays is built around internal systems that we may not know how
    they will respond to 'fiddling'. This means that in all normal situations it
    may be far better to leave things like memory handling and page files and
    defragging strictly alone. Using this as a basic setup I have tried running
    a smooth and lean machine, the result being that my systems are generally
    friendly and is serving me quite few surprises.

    I would never recommend anyone not to experiment - experiments are a great
    way to learning, but as technology advances it is getting increasingly
    dangerous to accumulate series of experiments without being able to
    back-trace every single step. Loosing your way can mean sleepless nights.

    Personally, I might have tried having your machine set up using the
    auto-defragging and un-installing any third-party stuff and then leaving it
    alone for some two weeks. Also, make sure Windows is set up to handle the
    Virtual Memory as it expects it, with it's default Page File size and then
    leave that alone for a while. See if it helps, if it doesn't, make sure you
    remove any downloaded and installed programs that you don't use. It's
    surprising how often stuff like that can disturb an otherwise healthy
    system. Just don't panic - set it up defensively and let it have it's way,
    then you can make your research and start tweaking if you feel you have to.
    Never tweak a system that isn't perfectly healthy.

    I have no way of knowing if this applies to you at all, it will apply to
    someone else. Your story indicates you have an able system there, the
    strange behaviour, though, could easily be signs of over-experimentation.


    Tony. . .





    "BP" <> wrote in message
    news:h04qjv$2ha$-september.org...
    >
    > On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 10:48:14 +0200, Tony Sperling wrote:
    >
    >> I have never experienced 'defragging' eating up free space. One possible
    >> cause to this symptom [might] be small RAM size that could make your page
    >> file expand - this expansion will later be left behind.
    >>
    >> Reasonable amount of RAM, reasonable Page File (Fixed) size, and not less
    >> than some 20% free space on the HD(s) should keep this from ever
    >> happening.
    >>
    >>
    >> Tony. . .

    >
    > Thanks for the information. It's a puzzle. I have 4 gigs of RAM, which
    > ought to be enough (The "gauge" in the Vista Side bar has never gone over
    > 60% Ram use)and, even with the disappearing Drive Space I have 480 gigs
    > free. Oh, well. Maybe there are mysteries we aren't supposed to solve.
     
    Tony Sperling, Jun 3, 2009
    #9
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