Data Projectors - APM

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by frederick, Aug 17, 2004.

  1. frederick

    frederick Guest

    Do any or most data projectors support APM Monitor power off / power on?
    This seems not to be stated in specifications that I have seen. One
    that I have fiddled with did not seem to support APM, but did have a
    built-in countdown timer function to power off / standby.

    thanks
    frederick, Aug 17, 2004
    #1
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  2. frederick

    Nigel Guest

    On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:42:47 +1200, frederick wrote:

    > Do any or most data projectors support APM Monitor power off / power on?
    > This seems not to be stated in specifications that I have seen. One that
    > I have fiddled with did not seem to support APM, but did have a built-in
    > countdown timer function to power off / standby.
    >
    > thanks

    The Dell ones do I believe, not sure of the model but the one I used would
    go into standby mode ( not always at the best of times ).

    Nigel

    P.S. Given the price of DLP bulbs I'd be surprised if any DLP projector
    didn't do this.
    Nigel, Aug 17, 2004
    #2
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  3. frederick

    frederick Guest

    "Nigel" <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
    news:pan.2004.08.17.01.28.16.421992@_yahoo.co.nz...
    > On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:42:47 +1200, frederick wrote:
    >
    > > Do any or most data projectors support APM Monitor power off / power

    on?
    > > This seems not to be stated in specifications that I have seen. One

    that
    > > I have fiddled with did not seem to support APM, but did have a

    built-in
    > > countdown timer function to power off / standby.
    > >
    > > thanks

    > The Dell ones do I believe, not sure of the model but the one I used

    would
    > go into standby mode ( not always at the best of times ).
    >
    > Nigel
    >
    > P.S. Given the price of DLP bulbs I'd be surprised if any DLP

    projector
    > didn't do this.


    I wondered whether the fact that resetting power options can be a pain
    in the behind - or just something forgotten about, combined with the
    nuisance value of having a monitor power-off occur in the middle of a
    presentation, might mean that APM support is more nuisance than it is
    worth to many users. It doesn't seem high in the priority of features
    listed by manufacturers / resellers.

    The bulb cost of about 50c / hour isn't bad IMO - though maybe a home
    user would want to glue a piggy bank to the machine, and feed it by the
    hour.
    frederick, Aug 17, 2004
    #3
  4. frederick

    Nigel Guest

    On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:01:33 +1200, frederick wrote:

    > "Nigel" <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
    > news:pan.2004.08.17.01.28.16.421992@_yahoo.co.nz...
    >> On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:42:47 +1200, frederick wrote:
    >>
    >> > Do any or most data projectors support APM Monitor power off / power

    > on?
    >> > This seems not to be stated in specifications that I have seen. One

    > that
    >> > I have fiddled with did not seem to support APM, but did have a

    > built-in
    >> > countdown timer function to power off / standby.
    >> >
    >> > thanks

    >> The Dell ones do I believe, not sure of the model but the one I used

    > would
    >> go into standby mode ( not always at the best of times ).
    >>
    >> Nigel
    >>
    >> P.S. Given the price of DLP bulbs I'd be surprised if any DLP

    > projector
    >> didn't do this.

    >
    > I wondered whether the fact that resetting power options can be a pain in
    > the behind - or just something forgotten about, combined with the nuisance
    > value of having a monitor power-off occur in the middle of a presentation,
    > might mean that APM support is more nuisance than it is worth to many
    > users. It doesn't seem high in the priority of features listed by
    > manufacturers / resellers.
    >
    > The bulb cost of about 50c / hour isn't bad IMO - though maybe a home user
    > would want to glue a piggy bank to the machine, and feed it by the hour.

    50c an hour seems a bit high actually, I'm not sure about projectors but
    we were at about $500USD for a bulb on cubes & they lasted around 2,500
    hours. It starts adding up for a 42 cube video wall mind you & even for
    offices if you have 20+ projectors in the building.

    I'd say it's a handy feature myself, I'd rather the laptop/PC controlled
    the APM than the projector itself, then it's all in one place. But it
    would depend on the usage, ours was in a meeting room for internal
    presentations so was never really an issue, much more important if it's
    for prospective clients.

    Good Luck

    Nigel
    Nigel, Aug 17, 2004
    #4
  5. In article <1092703442.917718@ftpsrv1> in nz.comp on Tue, 17 Aug 2004
    12:42:47 +1200, frederick <> says...
    > Do any or most data projectors support APM Monitor power off / power on?
    > This seems not to be stated in specifications that I have seen. One
    > that I have fiddled with did not seem to support APM, but did have a
    > built-in countdown timer function to power off / standby.


    I think there is only limited support for computer display standards such
    as DDC and APM.

    But if you want the projector to power itself off, look in the
    instruction manual for an auto off setting.

    Let's make it clear, you don't want a projector powering itself on and
    off like a screen. Repeated short on-off cycles will shorten the life of
    the bulb and they are very expensive to replace.
    Patrick Dunford, Aug 17, 2004
    #5
  6. frederick

    frederick Guest

    "Nigel" <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
    news:pan.2004.08.17.03.35.25.166101@_yahoo.co.nz...
    / resellers.
    > >
    > > The bulb cost of about 50c / hour isn't bad IMO - though maybe a

    home user
    > > would want to glue a piggy bank to the machine, and feed it by the

    hour.
    > 50c an hour seems a bit high actually, I'm not sure about projectors

    but
    > we were at about $500USD for a bulb on cubes & they lasted around

    2,500
    > hours. It starts adding up for a 42 cube video wall mind you & even

    for
    > offices if you have 20+ projectors in the building.
    >
    > I'd say it's a handy feature myself, I'd rather the laptop/PC

    controlled
    > the APM than the projector itself, then it's all in one place. But it
    > would depend on the usage, ours was in a meeting room for internal
    > presentations so was never really an issue, much more important if

    it's
    > for prospective clients.
    >
    > Good Luck
    >
    > Nigel


    I was looking at methods to simply detect and overrride windows apm
    settings. IMO it is a pain to have to consider and change settings for
    screensaver, sleep/standby, and monitor power if using a laptop for
    display via a data projector, and then set them back to normal later.
    It should be a "one click" job to override / reset. I wondered whether
    the monitor on/off functions might have use for unattended display - not
    that I imagine there is great appeal in leaving a few thousand $$ of
    gear "unattended" too long.

    Patrick D suggests that short cycles may shorten the life of the lamps.
    That makes sense. The "estimated life" quoted by the manufacturer
    typically makes a point of stating that lamp life is an estimate, based
    on environmental and usage conditions, but generally don't go on to
    explain what those conditions are. I expect that he is right - but is
    there some data somewhere to show that this has been tested? Would 2000
    one hour sessions be a problem, or would 20,000 six minute sessions be
    the problem?
    frederick, Aug 17, 2004
    #6
  7. frederick

    Nigel Guest

    On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:36:57 +1200, Patrick Dunford wrote:

    > In article <1092703442.917718@ftpsrv1> in nz.comp on Tue, 17 Aug 2004
    > 12:42:47 +1200, frederick <> says...
    >> Do any or most data projectors support APM Monitor power off / power on?
    >> This seems not to be stated in specifications that I have seen. One
    >> that I have fiddled with did not seem to support APM, but did have a
    >> built-in countdown timer function to power off / standby.

    >
    > I think there is only limited support for computer display standards such
    > as DDC and APM.
    >
    > But if you want the projector to power itself off, look in the instruction
    > manual for an auto off setting.
    >
    > Let's make it clear, you don't want a projector powering itself on and off
    > like a screen. Repeated short on-off cycles will shorten the life of the
    > bulb and they are very expensive to replace.

    It's a trade off though is it not, balancing the on/off problem ( which
    bulbs hate ) with being left on & prematurely wearing out.

    Not an easy balance :)

    Nigel

    P.S. The projector we had seemed to be quite smart at looking after it's
    bulb, in terms of working to manage the temperature of it when it was
    turned off & then being turned back on.
    The real killer would be pulling the plug on the projector before the bulb
    had been cooled down, that & touching the bulb ( they just hate the oils
    from your skin ) :).
    Nigel, Aug 17, 2004
    #7
  8. In article <1092715704.272741@ftpsrv1> in nz.comp on Tue, 17 Aug 2004
    16:07:32 +1200, frederick <> says...
    > "Nigel" <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
    > news:pan.2004.08.17.03.35.25.166101@_yahoo.co.nz...
    > / resellers.
    > > >
    > > > The bulb cost of about 50c / hour isn't bad IMO - though maybe a

    > home user
    > > > would want to glue a piggy bank to the machine, and feed it by the

    > hour.
    > > 50c an hour seems a bit high actually, I'm not sure about projectors

    > but
    > > we were at about $500USD for a bulb on cubes & they lasted around

    > 2,500
    > > hours. It starts adding up for a 42 cube video wall mind you & even

    > for
    > > offices if you have 20+ projectors in the building.
    > >
    > > I'd say it's a handy feature myself, I'd rather the laptop/PC

    > controlled
    > > the APM than the projector itself, then it's all in one place. But it
    > > would depend on the usage, ours was in a meeting room for internal
    > > presentations so was never really an issue, much more important if

    > it's
    > > for prospective clients.
    > >
    > > Good Luck
    > >
    > > Nigel

    >
    > I was looking at methods to simply detect and overrride windows apm
    > settings. IMO it is a pain to have to consider and change settings for
    > screensaver, sleep/standby, and monitor power if using a laptop for
    > display via a data projector, and then set them back to normal later.
    > It should be a "one click" job to override / reset. I wondered whether
    > the monitor on/off functions might have use for unattended display - not
    > that I imagine there is great appeal in leaving a few thousand $$ of
    > gear "unattended" too long.
    >
    > Patrick D suggests that short cycles may shorten the life of the lamps.
    > That makes sense. The "estimated life" quoted by the manufacturer
    > typically makes a point of stating that lamp life is an estimate, based
    > on environmental and usage conditions, but generally don't go on to
    > explain what those conditions are. I expect that he is right - but is
    > there some data somewhere to show that this has been tested? Would 2000
    > one hour sessions be a problem, or would 20,000 six minute sessions be
    > the problem?


    All I can give you are the instructions from Sanyo, who make a range of
    projectors from $2000 home units up to 10,000 lumens 4-lamp fixed
    projectors designed to be stacked in multiples.

    They state the lamp should not be turned off until at least 5 minutes
    after it has been turned on.

    Lamps normally do blow when they are first turned on, but projectors may
    have a slow start feature to limit the inrush current through a cold
    filament.

    There is going to be an issue with repetitive thermal cycling on-off of a
    lamp IMO. They become very hot and the heat normally has to be removed by
    a fan, which often keeps running after the lamp has turned off in order
    to cool the insides of the projector down.

    Why are the lamps so expensive? Compared to a halogen light, which is
    yellowish and has a life of only about 50 hours, the light produced by a
    metal halide lamp is very white and they typically have a life of 1000
    hours or more, although the actual light output will steadily decline
    throughout the life of the bulb.
    Patrick Dunford, Aug 17, 2004
    #8
  9. frederick

    Nigel Guest

    On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:07:32 +1200, frederick wrote:

    >
    > I was looking at methods to simply detect and overrride windows apm
    > settings. IMO it is a pain to have to consider and change settings for
    > screensaver, sleep/standby, and monitor power if using a laptop for
    > display via a data projector, and then set them back to normal later. It
    > should be a "one click" job to override / reset. I wondered whether the
    > monitor on/off functions might have use for unattended display - not that
    > I imagine there is great appeal in leaving a few thousand $$ of gear
    > "unattended" too long.

    I agree on the one click, but I have no idea how on windows.

    Not so sure about the unattended comment, could be handy for trade shows
    or leaving a Doom 3 scene going to frighten the cleaners :).

    >
    > Patrick D suggests that short cycles may shorten the life of the lamps.
    > That makes sense. The "estimated life" quoted by the manufacturer
    > typically makes a point of stating that lamp life is an estimate, based
    > on environmental and usage conditions, but generally don't go on to
    > explain what those conditions are. I expect that he is right - but is
    > there some data somewhere to show that this has been tested? Would 2000
    > one hour sessions be a problem, or would 20,000 six minute sessions be
    > the problem?

    We left the cubes on 24x7, but they were in use for around 14 hours a day.

    Tough to know, the other problem is they degrade ( at about 80% roughly of
    life span ) rather than blow, so knowing when to replace the bulb might
    not be so easy.

    From what I got told turning on/off is not great, but shutting off (
    pulling the cable ) is what they really hate, they run pretty hot & like
    to be cooled down.

    Nigel
    Nigel, Aug 17, 2004
    #9
  10. frederick

    Nigel Guest

    On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:17:59 +1200, Patrick Dunford wrote:


    > Why are the lamps so expensive? Compared to a halogen light, which is
    > yellowish and has a life of only about 50 hours, the light produced by a
    > metal halide lamp is very white and they typically have a life of 1000
    > hours or more, although the actual light output will steadily decline
    > throughout the life of the bulb.

    Mmm, not so sure about the steady decline, I though they stayed pretty
    constant for about 80% of life & then decline. That was what I got told
    anyways.

    Nigel
    Nigel, Aug 17, 2004
    #10
  11. frederick

    frederick Guest

    "Nigel" <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
    news:pan.2004.08.17.04.21.48.662044@_yahoo.co.nz...
    > On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:07:32 +1200, frederick wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > I was looking at methods to simply detect and overrride windows apm
    > > settings. IMO it is a pain to have to consider and change settings

    for
    > > screensaver, sleep/standby, and monitor power if using a laptop for
    > > display via a data projector, and then set them back to normal

    later. It
    > > should be a "one click" job to override / reset. I wondered whether

    the
    > > monitor on/off functions might have use for unattended display - not

    that
    > > I imagine there is great appeal in leaving a few thousand $$ of gear
    > > "unattended" too long.

    > I agree on the one click, but I have no idea how on windows.
    >

    There are windows API functions thet send a message to running processes
    that windows is going to shut down / log off / go to suspend mode /
    power off the monitor / activate the screensaver. These messages can be
    responded to so that a program can tell windows to hang off until the
    program tidies itself up. This can be used (abused?) to tell windows to
    hang off indefinitely. So making a program to schedule or suspend api
    functions, say from a click on a systray icon shouldn't be too
    difficult.

    > Not so sure about the unattended comment, could be handy for trade

    shows
    > or leaving a Doom 3 scene going to frighten the cleaners :).
    >

    That was my thought - but maybe a motivational video presentation to
    convince the cleaners that what they were doing was a valued important
    task - rather than Doom3 :)
    > >
    > > Patrick D suggests that short cycles may shorten the life of the

    lamps.
    > > That makes sense. The "estimated life" quoted by the manufacturer
    > > typically makes a point of stating that lamp life is an estimate,

    based
    > > on environmental and usage conditions, but generally don't go on to
    > > explain what those conditions are. I expect that he is right - but

    is
    > > there some data somewhere to show that this has been tested? Would

    2000
    > > one hour sessions be a problem, or would 20,000 six minute sessions

    be
    > > the problem?

    > We left the cubes on 24x7, but they were in use for around 14 hours a

    day.
    >

    So would a program to schedule power on / off (assuming projector APM
    support) be of use?
    Based on your 42 cube wall, that should save a couple of hundred bucks a
    day in lamp costs.
    >
    > Tough to know, the other problem is they degrade ( at about 80%

    roughly of
    > life span ) rather than blow, so knowing when to replace the bulb

    might
    > not be so easy.
    >
    > From what I got told turning on/off is not great, but shutting off (
    > pulling the cable ) is what they really hate, they run pretty hot &

    like
    > to be cooled down.



    >
    > Nigel
    >
    >
    frederick, Aug 17, 2004
    #11
  12. In article <pan.2004.08.17.04.27.05.25210@_yahoo.co.nz> in nz.comp on
    Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:27:05 +1200, Nigel <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> says...
    > On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:17:59 +1200, Patrick Dunford wrote:
    >
    >
    > > Why are the lamps so expensive? Compared to a halogen light, which is
    > > yellowish and has a life of only about 50 hours, the light produced by a
    > > metal halide lamp is very white and they typically have a life of 1000
    > > hours or more, although the actual light output will steadily decline
    > > throughout the life of the bulb.

    > Mmm, not so sure about the steady decline, I though they stayed pretty
    > constant for about 80% of life & then decline. That was what I got told
    > anyways.


    I don't know for sure, except that there is a point called a half life
    which is supposed to be the point at which the bulb is 50% of its new
    brightness.
    Patrick Dunford, Aug 17, 2004
    #12
  13. frederick

    Nigel Guest

    On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:48:31 +1200, frederick wrote:


    > There are windows API functions thet send a message to running processes
    > that windows is going to shut down / log off / go to suspend mode / power
    > off the monitor / activate the screensaver. These messages can be
    > responded to so that a program can tell windows to hang off until the
    > program tidies itself up. This can be used (abused?) to tell windows to
    > hang off indefinitely. So making a program to schedule or suspend api
    > functions, say from a click on a systray icon shouldn't be too difficult.

    Makes sense, though you would want to be sure your app got to them before
    Powerpoint would you not ? ( Assuming it was Powerpoint you were using ).

    > That was my thought - but maybe a motivational video presentation to
    > convince the cleaners that what they were doing was a valued important
    > task - rather than Doom3 :)

    <grin>.

    >> We left the cubes on 24x7, but they were in use for around 14 hours a

    > day.
    >>

    > So would a program to schedule power on / off (assuming projector APM
    > support) be of use?
    > Based on your 42 cube wall, that should save a couple of hundred bucks a
    > day in lamp costs.

    The problem was the damn thing would not restart in the same state it
    closed down. Whoops, I'll rephrase that, there were hardware issues which
    meant that it could not consistently restart in the state it was shutdown
    in & also it tended to accentuate variations between cubes.
    We were also told the bulb life would be reduced, but we would have tried
    but for the umm hardware idiosyncricies.

    Nigel
    Nigel, Aug 17, 2004
    #13
  14. frederick

    frederick Guest

    "Nigel" <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
    news:pan.2004.08.17.07.00.28.290742@_yahoo.co.nz...
    > On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:48:31 +1200, frederick wrote:
    >
    >
    > > There are windows API functions thet send a message to running

    processes
    > > that windows is going to shut down / log off / go to suspend mode /

    power
    > > off the monitor / activate the screensaver. These messages can be
    > > responded to so that a program can tell windows to hang off until

    the
    > > program tidies itself up. This can be used (abused?) to tell

    windows to
    > > hang off indefinitely. So making a program to schedule or suspend

    api
    > > functions, say from a click on a systray icon shouldn't be too

    difficult.
    > Makes sense, though you would want to be sure your app got to them

    before
    > Powerpoint would you not ? ( Assuming it was Powerpoint you were

    using ).

    No, with the exception of intercepting the message that the screensaver
    is about to start, the messages can be received by a process running in
    the background. The screensaver can be dealt to via the registry if
    this is needed. In any case when running a *.pps (show) file the
    screensaver is disabled. I'm not sure if this may be an XP or office XP
    + feature, because I can recall having screensaver problems with W98 and
    earlier powerpoint versions.

    >
    > > That was my thought - but maybe a motivational video presentation to
    > > convince the cleaners that what they were doing was a valued

    important
    > > task - rather than Doom3 :)

    > <grin>.
    >
    > >> We left the cubes on 24x7, but they were in use for around 14 hours

    a
    > > day.
    > >>

    > > So would a program to schedule power on / off (assuming projector

    APM
    > > support) be of use?
    > > Based on your 42 cube wall, that should save a couple of hundred

    bucks a
    > > day in lamp costs.

    > The problem was the damn thing would not restart in the same state it
    > closed down. Whoops, I'll rephrase that, there were hardware issues

    which
    > meant that it could not consistently restart in the state it was

    shutdown
    > in & also it tended to accentuate variations between cubes.
    > We were also told the bulb life would be reduced, but we would have

    tried
    > but for the umm hardware idiosyncricies.
    >
    > Nigel


    From what I have seen, projectors come with options to save settings
    when shut down, or not save the settings and revert to default when
    switched off (as opposed to standby) - much like digital camera
    firmware. That would cause problems if some or all projectors were
    tweaked, but some "forgot" settings when switched off.

    How did you get 42 screens coordinated? It sounds like serious hardware
    would be needed.
    frederick, Aug 17, 2004
    #14
  15. frederick

    Nigel Guest

    On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:03:48 +1200, Patrick Dunford wrote:

    > In article <pan.2004.08.17.04.27.05.25210@_yahoo.co.nz> in nz.comp on Tue,
    > 17 Aug 2004 16:27:05 +1200, Nigel <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> says...
    >> On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:17:59 +1200, Patrick Dunford wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> > Why are the lamps so expensive? Compared to a halogen light, which is
    >> > yellowish and has a life of only about 50 hours, the light produced by
    >> > a metal halide lamp is very white and they typically have a life of
    >> > 1000 hours or more, although the actual light output will steadily
    >> > decline throughout the life of the bulb.

    >> Mmm, not so sure about the steady decline, I though they stayed pretty
    >> constant for about 80% of life & then decline. That was what I got told
    >> anyways.

    >
    > I don't know for sure, except that there is a point called a half life
    > which is supposed to be the point at which the bulb is 50% of its new
    > brightness.

    You're right I think, there are differing bulbs & the ones we used were
    different to consumer ones. Consumer bulbs have 1-2000 hour life, ours
    were around 6,000 + :).
    The 1-2k hour bulbs I believe drop off but are more linear than the 6k
    ones.
    I've learnt a heap about bulbs more than I wanted too, but interestingly
    you can get xenon powered cubes now ( recently released ).

    Nigel
    Nigel, Aug 17, 2004
    #15
  16. frederick

    Nigel Guest

    On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:42:05 +1200, frederick wrote:

    > From what I have seen, projectors come with options to save settings when
    > shut down, or not save the settings and revert to default when switched
    > off (as opposed to standby) - much like digital camera firmware. That
    > would cause problems if some or all projectors were tweaked, but some
    > "forgot" settings when switched off.
    >
    > How did you get 42 screens coordinated? It sounds like serious hardware
    > would be needed.

    Yeah kinda, the physical distortion issue is not so bad, just takes time,
    but it doesn't change.

    The real problem is colour, I've done that two different ways, did a 21
    cube wall & basically with it, you attached a probe to the cube which did
    a light output equalisation pass first, then a R,G,G pass to match gamma
    and colour. It was ok, though the colour temperature was always a problem.

    The other wall was 42 cubes & it was done by eye, robot camera & varying
    video sources. The hardest part was they were lighting daylight, something
    like 3k kelvin & the wall was 6k ( the numbers could be out, the ratio
    which was the problem is about right ), so we had to suck all the blue out
    & pump the red as high as possible, basically screwing with the colour
    gamut it could display & making yellow/orange nigh on impossible to get
    right.

    In the end the biggest issue is colour temperature differential
    between the cubes or projector & studio lights, which is what killed TVNZ
    when they used projectors I think, though projectors should work they seem
    to be more of a pain than cubes, not sure why ( this is TV studio usage
    I'm talking ).

    Nigel
    Nigel, Aug 17, 2004
    #16
  17. frederick

    Craig Shore Guest

    On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:35:25 +1200, Nigel <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> wrote:

    >> The bulb cost of about 50c / hour isn't bad IMO - though maybe a home user
    >> would want to glue a piggy bank to the machine, and feed it by the hour.

    >50c an hour seems a bit high actually, I'm not sure about projectors but
    >we were at about $500USD for a bulb on cubes & they lasted around 2,500
    >hours. It starts adding up for a 42 cube video wall mind you & even for
    >offices if you have 20+ projectors in the building.


    One thing i've always wondered, why are the bulbs so expensive? Is it the
    materials used in them, or is most of it profit?
    Craig Shore, Aug 17, 2004
    #17
  18. frederick

    Nigel Guest

    On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:05:04 +1200, Craig Shore wrote:

    > On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:35:25 +1200, Nigel <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
    >
    >>> The bulb cost of about 50c / hour isn't bad IMO - though maybe a home
    >>> user would want to glue a piggy bank to the machine, and feed it by the
    >>> hour.

    >>50c an hour seems a bit high actually, I'm not sure about projectors but
    >>we were at about $500USD for a bulb on cubes & they lasted around 2,500
    >>hours. It starts adding up for a 42 cube video wall mind you & even for
    >>offices if you have 20+ projectors in the building.

    >
    > One thing i've always wondered, why are the bulbs so expensive? Is it the
    > materials used in them, or is most of it profit?

    I'm not entirely sure, they are lamps not bulbs, not sure what difference
    that makes :).
    My guess is volume & material, there does not seem to be a standard
    enclosure & the materials & manufacturing can't be cheap, lethal
    combination.
    Also if you look at lamps for car's nowadays they are not real cheap
    either ( though alot better life span ), I know someone who was up for
    $1600USD for new lamps, turned out her car was a magnet for headlight lamp
    thieves :(.

    Nigel
    Nigel, Aug 17, 2004
    #18
  19. frederick

    frederick Guest

    "Craig Shore" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:35:25 +1200, Nigel <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz>

    wrote:
    >
    > >> The bulb cost of about 50c / hour isn't bad IMO - though maybe a

    home user
    > >> would want to glue a piggy bank to the machine, and feed it by the

    hour.
    > >50c an hour seems a bit high actually, I'm not sure about projectors

    but
    > >we were at about $500USD for a bulb on cubes & they lasted around

    2,500
    > >hours. It starts adding up for a 42 cube video wall mind you & even

    for
    > >offices if you have 20+ projectors in the building.

    >
    > One thing i've always wondered, why are the bulbs so expensive? Is it

    the
    > materials used in them, or is most of it profit?
    >

    There seem to be enough manufacturers around these days, and projectors
    are so common, that I thought there would be enough competition to keep
    the lamp makers "honest" - within consumer expectation of commercial
    honesty anyway. I would have thought that the $$ would be in
    proprietary technology like Texas Instruments DSP - although I guess
    competition from improving LCD technology serves to keep them honest
    too. As much as the price horrifies me, it is about the same price as a
    single "driving light" on a subaru legacy, yet worth more IMO.
    frederick, Aug 17, 2004
    #19
  20. In article <> in nz.comp on
    Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:05:04 +1200, Craig Shore <>
    says...
    > On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:35:25 +1200, Nigel <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
    >
    > >> The bulb cost of about 50c / hour isn't bad IMO - though maybe a home user
    > >> would want to glue a piggy bank to the machine, and feed it by the hour.

    > >50c an hour seems a bit high actually, I'm not sure about projectors but
    > >we were at about $500USD for a bulb on cubes & they lasted around 2,500
    > >hours. It starts adding up for a 42 cube video wall mind you & even for
    > >offices if you have 20+ projectors in the building.

    >
    > One thing i've always wondered, why are the bulbs so expensive? Is it the
    > materials used in them, or is most of it profit?


    They have to be white, a halogen lamp used in say an overhead projector
    is yellowish and has a life of just 50 hours, these things have a much
    longer life.

    But that still doesn't really explain to me why someone in China can't
    turn them out for $50 each, unless maybe they are really hard to make.
    The output is quite high on the other hand, I don't know how it compares
    with the halogen.

    We had a projector where the bulb when the power was turned down, about
    half the time it would refuse to go on and the projector would just shut
    itself down again. When they checked they found the bulb housing had a
    crack in it. Not sure why that stuffed it, but replacing the bulb solved
    the problem.
    Patrick Dunford, Aug 17, 2004
    #20
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