Damn latency with Jetsurf

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by a, Apr 28, 2004.

  1. a

    a Guest

    Since moving to Jetsurf from Jetstart, my flatmate complains about lag
    during games. With no downloads going on it all seems okay, but even a
    modest 10 Kb/s http download seems to cause bad ping times now and then
    somewhere with in Telecom's network.

    Anyone know what is going on (are Telecom got wierd queues on Jetsurf or
    something)?


    Tracing route to www.orcon.net.nz [219.88.241.90]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms RTA300U.lan [192.168.1.1]
    2 57 ms 66 ms 57 ms 210-55-64-32.adsl.netgate.net.nz
    [210.55.64.32]

    3 67 ms 81 ms 173 ms 192.168.253.1
    4 638 ms 177 ms 75 ms 202.50.119.153
    5 80 ms 67 ms 68 ms orcon-dom2.akcr5.global-gateway.net.nz
    [202.50.245.242]
    6 68 ms 69 ms 67 ms fe-colocation-core.nct.orcon.net.nz
    [219.88.242.244]
    7 76 ms 81 ms 74 ms www.orcon.net.nz [219.88.241.90]

    Trace complete.
     
    a, Apr 28, 2004
    #1
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  2. On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:22:11 +1200, a <> wrote:

    >Since moving to Jetsurf from Jetstart, my flatmate complains about lag
    >during games. With no downloads going on it all seems okay, but even a
    >modest 10 Kb/s http download seems to cause bad ping times now and then
    >somewhere with in Telecom's network.
    >
    >Anyone know what is going on (are Telecom got wierd queues on Jetsurf or
    >something)?


    Yeah, not only am I seeing significant delays in DNS lookups but I'm
    now also getting really bursty transfers through my JetSurf flat-rate
    connection. And I'm still nowhere near the 10GB cap.

    Maybe Telecom has just overcommitted all its bandwidth.

    Remember, they do say "speeds UP TO xxxKbps" :-(

    --
    you can contact me via http://aardvark.co.nz/contact/
     
    Bruce Simpson, Apr 28, 2004
    #2
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  3. a

    EMB Guest

    In news:,
    a <> expelled:
    >
    > Tracing route to www.orcon.net.nz [219.88.241.90]
    > over a maximum of 30 hops:
    >


    2 219.88.186.1 47ms 31ms 31ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS)
    3 203.96.122.57 47ms 31ms 32ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS)
    4 202.50.245.193 47ms 31ms 31ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS)
    5 202.37.246.20 47ms 32ms 31ms TTL: 0
    (f4-0-1-6.akcr5.global-gateway.net.nz ok)
    6 202.50.245.242 31ms 31ms 31ms TTL: 0
    (orcon-dom2.akcr5.global-gateway.net.nz ok)
    7 219.88.242.244 47ms 47ms 47ms TTL: 0
    (fe-colocation-core.nct.orcon.net.nz ok)
    8 219.88.241.90 46ms 32ms 47ms TTL: 57 (www.orcon.net.nz ok)

    Ok here on ihug Jet Surf

    --
    EMB
    change two to number to reply
     
    EMB, Apr 28, 2004
    #3
  4. a

    Mr Scebe Guest

    "Bruce Simpson" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Yeah, not only am I seeing significant delays in DNS lookups but I'm
    > now also getting really bursty transfers through my JetSurf flat-rate
    > connection. And I'm still nowhere near the 10GB cap.


    Irregularly (though more often in the last couple of days) i have had
    delays, but overall the experience with Jetsmurf is that it's significantly
    faster than Jetstart.

    Tracing route to www.telstra.com [144.135.19.10]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 <10 ms <10 ms <10 ms x.x.x.x
    2 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms x.x.x.x.jetstream.xtra.co.nz [x.x.x.x]
    3 40 ms 30 ms 30 ms 203.96.122.59
    4 30 ms 40 ms 30 ms 202.50.245.198
    5 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms 202.50.245.197
    6 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms g2-0-3.tkbr3.global-gateway.net.nz
    [202.37.245.140]
    7 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms so-1-2-3-0.akbr3.global-gateway.net.nz
    [202.37.246.253]
    8 60 ms 50 ms 61 ms p1-7.sybr2.global-gateway.net.nz
    [202.37.245.58]
    9 51 ms 60 ms 50 ms 203.96.120.142
    10 60 ms 50 ms 60 ms pos3-0-3.bdr3.hay.connect.com.au
    [210.8.219.174]
    11 50 ms 60 ms 60 ms POS2-0.ken22.Sydney.telstra.net
    [139.130.4.249]
    12 60 ms 50 ms 50 ms
    GigabitEthernet10-0.ken-core4.Sydney.telstra.net [203.50.20.1]
    13 50 ms 60 ms 51 ms GigabitEthernet1-1.pit1.Sydney.telstra.net
    [203.50.13.2]
    14 50 ms 50 ms 60 ms pitt-tcom-r01 [139.130.185.254]
    15 50 ms 60 ms 50 ms 144.135.19.84
    16 60 ms 50 ms 60 ms 144.135.19.10

    Trace complete.

    60ms across the ditch is excellent, imo.

    > Maybe Telecom has just overcommitted all its bandwidth.
    >
    > Remember, they do say "speeds UP TO xxxKbps" :-(


    I imagine that's to cover themselves against sites having low bandwidth. It
    also allows them to traffic shape, which is a bit of a pisser.

    Tonight i've noticed that the "attacks" on my firewall have dropped away
    considerably from the last couple of days as well - so maybe there has been
    something going on behind the scenes.

    --
    Mr Scebe
    Losers always whine about their 'best'.
    Winners go home and **** the prom queen".
    ~Sean Connery in "The Rock"
     
    Mr Scebe, Apr 28, 2004
    #4
  5. a

    Mr Scebe Guest

    "EMB" <> wrote in message
    news:c6nsgd$8bn$...
    > In news:,


    <snippy>
    > 7 219.88.242.244 47ms 47ms 47ms TTL: 0
    > (fe-colocation-core.nct.orcon.net.nz ok)
    > 8 219.88.241.90 46ms 32ms 47ms TTL: 57 (www.orcon.net.nz ok)


    4 50 ms 40 ms 41 ms 202.50.245.193
    5 40 ms 41 ms 40 ms f4-0-1-6.akcr5.global-gateway.net.nz
    [202.37.246.20]
    6 40 ms 40 ms 40 ms orcon-dom2.akcr5.global-gateway.net.nz
    [202.50.245.242]
    7 40 ms 40 ms 40 ms fe-colocation-core.nct.orcon.net.nz
    [219.88.242.244]
    8 40 ms 50 ms 40 ms www.orcon.net.nz [219.88.241.90]

    Same here, on Xtra Jetsmurf.

    --
    Mr Scebe
    Losers always whine about their 'best'.
    Winners go home and **** the prom queen".
    ~Sean Connery in "The Rock"
     
    Mr Scebe, Apr 28, 2004
    #5
  6. a

    samg Guest

    a <> wrote in news::

    > Since moving to Jetsurf from Jetstart, my flatmate complains about lag
    > during games. With no downloads going on it all seems okay, but even a
    > modest 10 Kb/s http download seems to cause bad ping times now and then
    > somewhere with in Telecom's network.
    >
    > Anyone know what is going on (are Telecom got wierd queues on Jetsurf or
    > something)?
    >
    >

    didnt they change their system a while back which resulted in exactly this
    effect?
     
    samg, Apr 29, 2004
    #6
  7. samg wrote:
    > a <> wrote in news::
    >
    >> Since moving to Jetsurf from Jetstart, my flatmate complains about
    >> lag during games. With no downloads going on it all seems okay, but
    >> even a modest 10 Kb/s http download seems to cause bad ping times
    >> now and then somewhere with in Telecom's network.
    >>
    >> Anyone know what is going on (are Telecom got wierd queues on
    >> Jetsurf or something)?
    >>
    >>

    > didnt they change their system a while back which resulted in exactly
    > this effect?


    Yes, they gave TCP packets priority over UDP packets (TCP used for
    webbrowsing/downloading, UDP generally used for games).

    So surfing at the same time as playing an internet game is a big no-no.. :).

    Cheers,
    Nicholas Sherlock
     
    Nicholas Sherlock, Apr 29, 2004
    #7
  8. a

    Don Gould Guest

    Hummm.... new day, same news.

    The only way 'we' get these issues fixed is to get more people using the
    network.

    More users gives the provider justification to add more resources.

    More users also put more stress on the system which then impacts on all
    users which cause more support costs which in turn puts pressure on to
    beter resource the network.

    Have you sent the help desk an email about this issue?
    Have you telephoned them and asked for their comment?

    Hummm.... I wonder if we will have to see things get to the same level
    of poor service and service outages as users of BigPond in Australia had
    to before these sorts of problems go away?

    Cheers Don
    a wrote:

    > Since moving to Jetsurf from Jetstart, my flatmate complains about lag
    > during games. With no downloads going on it all seems okay, but even a
    > modest 10 Kb/s http download seems to cause bad ping times now and then
    > somewhere with in Telecom's network.
    >
    > Anyone know what is going on (are Telecom got wierd queues on Jetsurf or
    > something)?
    >
    >
    > Tracing route to www.orcon.net.nz [219.88.241.90]
    > over a maximum of 30 hops:
    >
    > 1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms RTA300U.lan [192.168.1.1]
    > 2 57 ms 66 ms 57 ms 210-55-64-32.adsl.netgate.net.nz
    > [210.55.64.32]
    >
    > 3 67 ms 81 ms 173 ms 192.168.253.1
    > 4 638 ms 177 ms 75 ms 202.50.119.153
    > 5 80 ms 67 ms 68 ms orcon-dom2.akcr5.global-gateway.net.nz
    > [202.50.245.242]
    > 6 68 ms 69 ms 67 ms fe-colocation-core.nct.orcon.net.nz
    > [219.88.242.244]
    > 7 76 ms 81 ms 74 ms www.orcon.net.nz [219.88.241.90]
    >
    > Trace complete.
     
    Don Gould, May 2, 2004
    #8
  9. a

    a Guest

    In article <YF3lc.1063$>,
    says...
    > Hummm.... new day, same news.
    >
    > The only way 'we' get these issues fixed is to get more people using the
    > network.
    >
    > More users gives the provider justification to add more resources.
    >
    > More users also put more stress on the system which then impacts on all
    > users which cause more support costs which in turn puts pressure on to
    > beter resource the network.
    >
    > Have you sent the help desk an email about this issue?
    > Have you telephoned them and asked for their comment?
    >

    Yes and I got a response saying it was supposed to be fixed.
    It still isn't though. Something from Dunedin to Auckland is just plain
    stuffed.

    > Hummm.... I wonder if we will have to see things get to the same level
    > of poor service and service outages as users of BigPond in Australia had
    > to before these sorts of problems go away?
    >
    > Cheers Don
    > a wrote:


    Probably. Monopoly, monopoly, monopoly.



    snip
     
    a, May 2, 2004
    #9
  10. a

    Gordon Smith Guest

    "Bruce Simpson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Yeah, not only am I seeing significant delays in DNS lookups but I'm
    > now also getting really bursty transfers through my JetSurf flat-rate
    > connection. And I'm still nowhere near the 10GB cap.
    >
    > Maybe Telecom has just overcommitted all its bandwidth.
    >
    > Remember, they do say "speeds UP TO xxxKbps" :-(
    >


    Nope... thats just how packet queues on routers work by default. The usual
    default is a FIFO queue. In order to even out flows, you'd want to have
    something like WFQ (weighted fair queuing)
    Juggling queue algorithms and buckets sizes is quite a complex issue - why
    would they want to go to the time and effort of implementing QoS on DSL for
    nil ROI?
     
    Gordon Smith, May 3, 2004
    #10
  11. a

    Don Gould Guest

    Gordon Smith wrote:

    > why
    > would they want to go to the time and effort of implementing QoS on DSL for
    > nil ROI?


    Simple (and short sighted) answer: they shouldn't

    I could come up with a dozen business reasons why they should put QoS on
    DSL... thou these would also lead ROI.

    Cheers Don
     
    Don Gould, May 3, 2004
    #11
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